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Help Me! First competitive team!

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by jaymartin13, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. jaymartin13


    Jul 26, 2012
    Hello everyone! This is my first attempt at making a competitive team. I was thinking OU due to the fact that the Pokemon that I feel I MUST use are in this category. I have been away from Pokemon for years, but me and a few friends decided to get back into it full force. This is also my first time writing in one of these forums, so if I forget something, please just let me know and I will update it ASAP. For this team, I was really looking for the opinion of those much more knowledgeable than myself. I am offering YOU the opportunity to mold my team for me. I have a few ideas and stipulations, but for the most part, I am open to suggestion and learning how to use any Pokemon or team idea that seems like it has potential. Also, I will solely be playing on Soul Silver. I can trade as needed, but some Pokemon will be difficult for me to come by, such as Smeargle. It is not entirely impossible, but difficult.

    1. My first stipulation is that I do not want to use any starters, legendaries, or pseudo-legendaries. Sorry! This is something that I will not budge on. It is just a personal preference, and also part of the rules that my friends and I placed on ourselves for this endeavor.

    2. I have two Pokemon that I refused to remove from my team. I am open to suggestions on how to use them, but they WILL stay in my party. Those two are Heracross and Umbreon. If you can give me ample reason, I may be willing to budge on Umbreon, but not Heracross.

    3. This is merely a thought, but I was thinking of using some combination of Spikes, Stealth Rock, and Toxic Spikes. As I said, this is merely a thought, but I like the idea of this theme. My team below will take this into effect, but if this is a dumb idea with Heracross and Umbreon, just tell me and I will adjust accordingly.

    That is it, ladies and gentlemen! All I ask is that you give me your honest opinion. I want to DESTROY my friends and know that this was the best place to find the help I need. Without further ado, her are my Pokeymans.

    Heracross (Adamant) 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Choice Scarf (Guts)
    Close Combat
    Stone Edge

    This is my physical sweeper. He will be doing a lot of damage, hopefully. Obviously, he will not be my lead Pokemon. He has STAB Megahorn and Close Combat. Stone Edge covers several types that I could baton pass him into. Pursuit does what it does.

    Umbreon (Careful) 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
    Leftovers (Synchronize)
    Mean Look
    Baton Pass

    This Umbreon setup is pretty basic for him. He is a Mean Look Baton Passer who can also Wishpass and keep the other team from setting up with Taunt. My only reservation with this is that he has no attacks at all. He is mainly a setup man, and I figure if I need him to attack at all, I am already in big trouble.

    Here is where you guys come in. From this point, these are only ideas. I have not caught or bred any of these yet. Also, as a point of interest. I am not very skilled at breeding moves and natures into Pokemon yet. I will get the nature I want by being patient, but move breeding is foreign to me.

    Gengar (Timid) 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Life Orb (Levitate)

    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast
    Energy Ball

    Gengar would be my special sweeper. His moveset is setup to cover most Pokemon types. With a ghost, electric, fighting, and grass type attack at his disposal, he can find a weakness almost with any Pokemon he fights. Life Orb makes him even more deadly.

    Skarmory (Impish) 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Shed Shell (Sturdy)

    Brave Bird


    He is my physical wall/ spiker. I would use him the obvious way. Throw down spikes, Whirlwind when necessary, Roost when HP gets low, and hit 'em hard with Brave Bird.

    Tentacruel (Calm) 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
    Leftovers (Liquid Ooze)
    Toxic Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Sludge Bomb

    He is mainly support/toxic spiker. He is also a spinner, in case my opponent is a spiker too. Surf and Sludge Bomb get STAB. With his high Special Def, I thought about maybe Toxic and use him as sort of a wall. If this seems like a better option, let me know.

    Gliscor (Jolly) 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Leftovers (Sand Veil)
    Stealth Rock

    Gliscor is a potential lead Pokemon. Being a stealth rock user with fairly high speed, it can use U-turn to hit and run into a better type matchup if needed. With STAB Earthquake in his arsenal, he can pack a punch as well. Roost, yet again for a quick heal if necessary.

    Well, there ya go. That is the team I would like for you guys to rate. After typing this, I really like the idea of using a Gliscor. If you guys could work him into the mix also, that would be appreciated! My main concern with this team is that there are not many Pokemon that are heavy hitter on my team. I am banking on the combo of the two spikes and Stealth Rocks to put me in a favorable position so that my Sweeper can finish the job. If you guys could give me some pointer and some advice, I would be very thankful. As I said before, I am open to any suggestions. Thanks guys! I know you will not let me down!
  2. Smiles


    Oct 18, 2010
    I'm pretty sure the posting format is wrong. Anyway.

    The first thing I want to say is that this team doesn't really have strategy and after scanning it, I don't think you said anything about synergy either.

    Normally a team is either offensive, defensive, or balanced. This doesn't look like any of those, so I suggest you standardize it.
    Gliscor fits on all kinds of teams, preferably with sandstorm, which cannot be done with psuedo-legendary Tyranitar, so you would need to use Hippowdon, who is pretty much only on defensive teams.
    Tentacruel is usually defensive and so is Skarmory. Umbreon I have no idea, he rarely even fits on a team. And then you have super frail Heracross and Gengar.

    I personally really dislike Heracross and Umbreon. Preference is nice, I understand, but these two are somewhat non-threatening and unreliable.

    Heracross has two moves with 80% and 85% accuracy. That's part of why he is unreliable. Umbreon, on the other hand, can pass Mean Look, which is awesome if done well. However, you have no set up sweepers or walls, so what's even the point of it? All you can do is hopefully kill the opponent Pokemon, who has a good chance to kill Umbreon too.

    Toxic Spikes is best for a stall team coupled with fire-type moves to take out the steel types that are immune. Having sandstorm does double by helping Gliscor and additionally damaging the opponent's Pokemon.

    If Gengar is going to be your spinblocker, that's going to be tough since he is KOed by everything. I'd suggest Rotom-a, but no legendaries, right? Dusknoir would be excessive physical defense with Skarmory and Gliscor, so I really don't know what to suggest other than change almost all of the team.

    And you never said anything about Ubers, since I don't believe Wobbuffet is a legendary, and you can obviously just abuse that. You can abuse it even further by getting Wynaut.
  3. jaymartin13


    Jul 26, 2012
    What would be a good strategy for a team using Heracross and Gliscor? I have been thinking about changing Umbreon. I like him and all, but I think he may be replaced easily. Also, what would be some Pokemon that you would use along with Gliscor and Heracross? Thanks for the post BTW. It was the type of info I was looking for.
  4. Smiles


    Oct 18, 2010
    I'm not really sure of a reason for why these 2 Pokemon would be used together. Gliscor usually wants a sandstorm to abuse sand veil and to wear down opponents, while Heracross, while being frail and holding a status orb, will die extremely quick by sandstorm. It would be possible to use them together if you were to change the Heracross set to, say, Swords Dance, but for the most potential I'd recommend getting rid of one of them. However, since you're training your Pokemon on a game, this becomes less appealing so I'll just assume you're using both.

    You should develop a plan. For example, if Heracross is going to be the main sweeper, you want him to be alive at the end, and healthy enough to sweep. If you want something else to be your focus on an offensive team, hopefully Heracross and Gliscor will eliminate or weaken its counters.

    The first thing to making an offensive team after identifying which Pokemon you want to use, is identifying which Pokemon pose a threat to them.
    For example, opposing Gliscor, Skarmory, Forretress, Dusknoir, and basically just defensive threats are a problem for Heracross.
    Your Gliscor is threatened by water-types in general such as Milotic, Vaporeon, Starmie, and Suicune.

    Then you need to find out what can eliminate these threats. Since you don't want legendaries, 2 very useful options in Celebi and Shaymin suddenly disappear. And without electric-type legendaries Raikou and Rotom-a, you're left with Blissey, Sceptile, Jolteon, and Electivire. The latter 3 are less effective than the legendaries, and Blissey isn't really offensive material.

    You could try another fighting type such as Infernape or Lucario, while also finding a counter to the Pokemon that threaten them in some way, ghost-types, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Swampert, Gyarados, Zapdos, etc. Infernape can counter some of these himself simply by changing his moveset, like my using Grass Knot, ThunderPunch, or Stone Edge. They both help Heracross by scouting the opponent's counters and weakening them so that the other one can eliminate it and continue its sweep.

    However, don't use both Infernape and Lucario, unless your team can help counter all of their similar weaknesses.
  5. jaymartin13


    Jul 26, 2012
    Nice! This is the kind of info I needed. Since its been so long since I played, learning new strategies is what I need. So let's say I choose to do these;
    The last slot could be maybe a grass like Roserade or some other special attacker. Would this be a potentially good team? Or am I off again? I'm concerned that I have so many physical attackers, but I do like the ones on the team. What type of build would you recommend for them, or perhaps a replacement pokemon for some of these. Thanks again for you help. It is greatly appreciated
  6. Smiles


    Oct 18, 2010
    you lack a drago resist, so a steel type is suggested for the last slot if u plan to use that. pick one or two to be the focus, or a few to be the core that the team will depend on to succeed.

    you should choose a lead that either attacks, sets up utility stuff like stealth rock, or sets up weather. infernape makes a great attacking lead, starmie too but wih rapid spin. gliscor is good for taunt and sr. other leads to consider are machamp, roserade, etc u can see the smogon sets.

    with heatran and tyranitar gone bc of no legendaries, the metagame for u and ur friend opens up. heatran threatens steel types like scizor, and grass types. tyranitar gone means less likelihood of sandstorm and no pursuit, making ghost types, especially gengar, much more effective. even starmie can work much better now.

    a set up sweeper is always nice for late game, SD lucario or SD/NP nape or SD heracross should all work for you, DD gyarados + that electivire is good, since you can get some free motor drive boosts for vire. infernape can be a mixed wallbreaker, while heracross can help wih that by using raw power instead of super effectiveness. in that case, roserade would make a nice lead while you get another mon to set up stealth rock.

    hope that helped :)
  7. jaymartin13


    Jul 26, 2012
    Ok so I was thinking maybe I'd use these:

    SD Heracross
    Special Sweeper Lucario
    Mixed Sweeper Electivire or Choice Specs Jolteon
    Toxic Spikes Lead Roserade
    Rapid Spin Starmie
    SR/Taunt Gliscor

    Hopefully, this team looks good. I checked and all types are covered for resistances. Main weakness seems that 3 are weak to fire. What do you think?
  8. jaymartin13


    Jul 26, 2012
    And maybe later, if I lose my love for Heracross (Probably wont happen! :D) I would switch Heracross and Lucario for maybe Scizor and Infernape. I also really like Scizor. I may train up these 8 simultaneously so I can use any of them at any given time. Would these be good additions to the team? Also, in the above team, assuming you approve, would you use Jolteon or Electivire. I like both, just wondering which you think is better for the team. Again, I really appreciate your help. No one else really jumped at the chance to help me.
  9. Smiles


    Oct 18, 2010
    Well the first thing i would change is Toxic Spikes on Roserade to Spikes. Spikes isn't that necessary at all, but it can work well. Toxic Spikes is better used for stall teams, since you can't take your time to let Toxic build up if you're playing at a fast pace.

    I noticed Rotom-a being a threat to this team, but then I remembered you're playing without legendaries. Just something to take into account if you ever play competitive battling.

    You should have at least one Pokemon with either a good priority move or Choice Scarf to revenge kill threats, especially those that use Dragon Dance; Gyarados, Dragonite, Tyranitar, and Kingdra. Starmie could equip a Choice Scarf effectively while still using Rapid Spin or Trick to mess with the opponent's Pokemon. Flygon could also make a good Scarfer.

    I'm not sure about Jolteon and Electivire on this team. Jolteon could be more effective, but what's great about Electivire is to abuse his ability. There is only 1 Pokemon weak to electric while 1 is immune and 1 resists it (not including Vire/Jolteon). You could get a sturdy steel type (Lucario is quite frail) to block dragon-type moves. Jirachi, Metagross, and Heatran are all not available for you, so your last offensive option is Scizor, who is a great Pokemon. Without Heatran and Zapdos as threats, he's just really really destructive.

    So, using what I've said, I've decided to just give you this big suggestion:

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-Turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Flygon @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - U-Turn
    - Fire Blast / ThunderPunch / Dragon Claw

    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 192 Atk / 64 SpA / 252 Spe
    // OR //
    EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Close Combat
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower / Overheat
    - Grass Knot / Stone Edge / Mach Punch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]/[Electric] / ThunderPunch / Grass Knot

    Infernape's EVs depends on which moves you give him. I listed a bunch in case Hidden Powers don't work for you in-game.
    If you give him more physical moves: use Overheat for more special power.
    If you give him more special moves: Grass Knot is pretty important. Preferably Fire Blast over Flamethrower for its power.

    Flygon and Scizor basically just U-Turn a lot to scout, since you get to switch after the opponent does, if he does. If he doesn't, you can switch to a counter. Scizor = power, while Flygon = speed.

    Suggested teammates would be Starmie, lead Roserade, something with Stealth Rock, special attackers, and possibly a set up sweeper. If, for example, you use SD Heracross or Lucario, get more special attackers alongside them. You can use Gliscor as the SR mon if you want.

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