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Help Needed.....

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by HasKal, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. HasKal


    Mar 10, 2013
    Hey, guys. So I am not looking as much for a rate, as for some new ideas. I have been playing with this team for quite a while now, and so far it has worked very well. Although over the past month, I have kind of stagnated on the ladder. I have tried nearly every trick I can come up with in this team, so I am very much open to changes in movesets, or even complete replacements. FYI, my current OU ranking is ACRE : 1750+ and Glicko2 : 1820(+-)35.

    The team is as follows : -

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability : Iron Barbs
    EV's : 252 HP, 88 Def, 168 SpD
    Nature : Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
    Moves : Stealth Rock / Leech Seed / Power Whip / Gyro Ball

    Tentacruel : Leftovers
    Ability : Liquid Ooze
    EV's : 252 HP, 236 Def, 20 Spe
    Nature : Bold (+Def,-Atk)
    Moves : Scald / Rapid Spin / Toxic / Protect

    Ferrothorn and Tentacruel make up the defensive core of my team, so it made sense to describe them together. Together they resist or are immune to 15 of the 17 types, only being neutral to Ground and Flying. Hence they have amazing defensive synergy, being able to switch into each other's counters easily. Tentacruel handles Scizor, Infernape, Volcarona, Terrakion, Conkeldurr etc. while Ferrothorn can take on Lati twins, Starmie, Jolteon, etc. Ferrothorn sets up Stealth Rock, and Power Whip and Gyro Ball give him decent offensive presence as well. Protect is used on Tentacruel to waste turns, get more Leftovers recovery as well preventing SubDisable Gengar from taking advantage. Tentacruel has enough speed EV's to outrun Jellicent and use Toxic before being Taunted. Liquid Ooze is used instead of Rain Dish to surprise opponents, and is very useful against Leech Seed users, Drain Punch Conkeldurr, Giga Drain Venusaur & Volcarona and Horn Leech Sawsbuck.

    The biggest problem to my defensive core is Landorus(which is a problem for the rest of the team as well). Jellicent can also be a problem if he manages to burn both Ferrothorn and Tentacruel. Most other defensive pokemon can set up hazards with ease due to the lack of offensive pressure. Also these two are helpless against Tornadus, as neither can resist its STAB Hurricane. Gastrodon can be problematic as well, if he lands a Scald burn on Ferrothorn.

    Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Ability : Levitate
    EV's : 232 HP, 56 SpA, 220 Spe
    Nature : Modest (+SpA,-Atk)
    Moves : Hydro Pump / Volt Switch / Pain Split / Will-o-wisp

    Rotom-Wash is kind of a bridge between offensive and defensive roles. It can check pokemon like Tornadus, Landorus, Heatran, Mamoswine which create problems for my defensive core. Pokemon which pose problems for my offensive mons like Gliscor, Landorus-T, Ferrothorn, Jellicent are also checked, albeit Ferrothorn requires a bit of prediction. Hydro Pump is a reliable primary STAB move, and more often than not it gets boosted by opposing team's rain. Volt Switch lets me scout, plus Rotom-W and Infernape share very good VoltTurn synergy. Pain Split provides recovery, although it can be shaky at times. Will-o-wisp is useful in crippling Scizor, Garchomp, Dragonite, Terrakion and Landorus-T as Rotom-W can avoid a OHKO from all variants of these pokemon except for Choice Band Garchomp and Terrakion. It can also cripple predicted Breloom switch-ins if Toxic Orb has not activated.

    The biggest problems for Rotom are specially bulky mons which resist or are neutral to its STABS, such as Jirachi, Celebi, Amoongus, Gastrodon, Latias, Latios. Specially bulky Jellicent can also be annoying as Volt Switch constantly forces Rotom out. Kyurem-B is also problematic, as neither Hydro Pump or Volt Switch can break its substitutes and it is fast enough to avoid Will-o-wisp. Chansey and Blissey are problems too, though Rotom can significantly heal off of their huge HP stats.

    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Ability : Blaze
    EV's : 252 Atk, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
    Nature : Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
    Moves : Overheat / Close Combat / U-turn / Stone Edge

    Infernape, with his great mixed attacking prowess, functions primarily as a wall breaker. Ferrothorn, Forretress, Blissey, Chansey, Porygon-2, Bronzong, Celebi, Jirachi, Amoongus, bulky Tyranitar, Heatran are all handled very easily. A one-two combination of Close Combat on the switch, followed by Overheat also secures KO's on Gliscor, Landorus-T, Donphan and Hippowdon most of the time. U-Turn allows Infernape to scout, as well as forming an amazing VoltTurn partnership with Rotom. U-Turn also allows it to damage Slowbro, Celebi, Reuniclus as well as Starmie, Latios and Latias on the switch. Stone Edge is useful in nailing Gyarados, Salamence, Dragonite, Volcarona, Thundrus-T. Volcarona is the most important one, as it is a huge threat to my team. Infernape avoids a OHKO from +1 Fiery Dance, Fire Blast(outside of Sun), Bug Buzz, Giga Drain and HP Rock from Volcarona. If Volcarona carries HP Ground it will KO, though in that case the game is up for me anyways as nothing else can counter it.

    The biggest threats to Infernape are bulky water types like Tentacruel, Jellicent, Gastrodon, although Close Combat does significant damage to Gastrodon. Latios, Latias, Alakazam, Starmie are also problems if they avoid U-Turn on the switch. Gengar is also problematic, but can't switch in on Overheat or Stone Edge. Keldeo resists 3 out of the 4 moves and is not KO'd by Close Combat unless it is significantly weakened. Terrakion is a shaky check, as non-Scarf variants will speed tie. Infernape is also very susceptible to status as well as Sandstorm, as it compounds recoil damage.


    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Ability : Levitate
    EV's : 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
    Nature : Timid (+Spe,-Atk)
    Moves : Trick / Draco Meteor / Psychic / Surf

    This is the revenge killer on my team. Scarf Latios outruns every unboosted as well most boosted pokemon in the game, and can reliably revenge kill a lot of them. Terrakion, Keldeo, Salamence, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Dragonite(even at +2), Alazkazam, Modest Venusaur, Jolteon, Infernape, Starmie are all easily checked by Latios. The moves are all standard, I have chosen Pyschic over Psyshock due to slightly higher base power and to be able to ensure an unconditional OHKO on Conkeldurr.

    The biggest problems for Latios are specially defensive Tyranitar and Jirachi. They can tank any hit, and kill him in Tyranitar's case or cripple him in Jirachi's case. Latios is also very vulnerable to Pursuit trapping and being setup on after using Draco Meteor, especially if I am forced to bring him out early in the game. Opposing Latias can also be a problem, if she can set up more than one Calm Mind. Mamoswine is also a problem if Latios is the last pokemon I have left, although Latios can survive an Ice Shard if he is healthy enough (roughly more than 70%).

    Haxorus @ Choice Band
    Ability : Mold Breaker
    EV's : 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Nature : Jolly (+Spe,-SpA)
    Moves : Outrage / Earthquake / Superpower / Dual Chop

    Haxorus brings physical power to the team. Dragon, Ground and Fighting provide amazing coverage on a large portion of the OU tier. Even without an Adamant nature, Outrage hits very hard and can KO almost every non-steel type. Earthquake and Superpower combine to help take out Heatran, Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Rotom-A, Bronzong, Jirachi, Toxicroak, Ninetales. A speed positive nature allows Haxorus to get the jump on speed-neutral Hydreigon, non-scarf Jirachi, non-scarf Kyurem-B. Dual Chop is reliable STAB move to use early game, and is particulary useful to break substitutes. SubPunch Breloom, Focus Sash Smeargle, Subsitute Ninjask are all neutralized by Dual Chop. Dual Chop also lets Haxorus take down Dragonite as Mold Breaker negates Multiscale.

    Every other Dragon-type, except for Dragonite, is a huge problem for Haxorus. Every one of them can outspeed and OHKO. Priority users like Mamoswine, Scizor and Breloom are also problematic, although neither can get a OHKO. I think its worth noting that Haxorus, at full health, can survive a +2 Extremespeed from Lucario even after Stealth Rock, and can KO in return. Physically bulky behemoths like Landorus-T, Gliscor, Tangrowth and Slowbro can counter Haxorus, although if they are outsped they do risk getting 2HKO'd from Outrage. Skarmory is a perfect counter as it avoids a 2HKO from any move.

    Rock Polish Landorus and Rock Polish Terrakion are huge threats to my team, as nothing on my team can kill them after the speed boost. I put a lot of emphasis on speed in general, as such my team is quite fast, all 3 offensive team members run speed +ve natures. As a result Trick Room teams are problematic, Reuniclus in particular. My team can handle hyper-offense, weather and balanced teams well, but dedicated stall teams are a problem, and I have lost to them more than once.

    What I am looking for
    This section here tells you what help I am looking for. I have been playing with this team for a long time (3-4 months), and I think I have reached the highest ranking it could take me to. What I really need is changes to moves, EV spreads or entire replacements which can take me further. I am open to replacing any pokemon on the team, just keep the following in mind before you suggest a change:-
    1) Look at the function the pokemon serves in the team, and suggest a suitable replacement which can take on more or less a similar role.
    2) Look at the type synergy of the team as a whole, both offensively and defensivley. Some imbalance is acceptable, but don't suggest changes that cause serious balance issues.

    Plus changes to help deal with Landorus will be appreciated very, very much. God I hate Landorus!!

    Thanks for reading, and for any help in advance. :)
  2. Axew326


    Jun 24, 2013

    Hey, I think you're team is very well though out, but have you considered Gravity? Your Stone Edge, Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, Overheat, all of those moves with >=60% accuracy would always hit. Earthquake would hit Zapdos, Thundurus, Skarmory, Rotom-W... the list goes on and on. You would just need one or two Pokes with Protect. With Tentacruel as a special wall, substituting Regice, with base 80 HP, 100 Defense, and 200 Special Defense would provide a very potent special wall. Here's the moveset I would advise...

    Regice @ Chople Berry

    Ability: Clear Body
    EV Spread: 252 HP/ 160 Def/ 96 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Nature: Bold (+Def,-Atk)
    -Focus Blast

    The often-forgotten golem is a great special wall with good offensive capabilities. The EVs allow Regice to take more physical damage than most sets. Chople Berry provide it with an important reduction in damage from a fighting type attack. Blizzard and Thunder provide BoltBeam coverage, except more powerful. Plus, they have perfect accuracy under Gravity! Focus Blast can hit steel types hard, especially Magnezone. There are no Pokémon that cannot be hit by this set for at least neutral damage!
  3. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex Mew is blue
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 28, 2010
    Hi. Have you considered specially defensive Celebi over Ferrothorn? It would help your Landorus problem and also give you another check to Keldeo, who can put severe pressure on your team in the rain.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 20 Spd / 252 HP / 236 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Baton Pass
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - Stealth Rock

    This set should do well over Ferrothorn. You still have a hazard setter and bulky grass, but you should be able to deal with Landorus much more easily. Baton pass is used so you don't risk getting pursuit trapped by Tyranitar and Scizor. Hope I helped. Good luck.
  4. HasKal


    Mar 10, 2013
    I did think of using Celebi over Ferrothorn, although it just opens the team further to Dragon-types.

    Celebi could work, but then it also needs another change, someone who can handle Dragons.

    How does a defensive core of Celebi + Heatran sound??
  5. HasKal


    Mar 10, 2013
    Gravity Regice seems a good idea in theory, but if you look a bit closely, it isn't that good an idea.

    First, it throws off the team balance, with Latios being the only one resisting Fighting type attacks. Chople Berry might let Regice survive one hit, but not more. Also lack of any recovery or even Leftovers, meaning his life would be very limited.

    Secondly, Gravity is a good idea, considering the number of hax misses I get. Thing is, Ferrothorn gets Gravity too, so I am definitely gonna try it out.

    All in all, thanks for the idea of using Gravity, I can't centralize my team around it, but can definitely use it as a surprise. Thanks for reading and helping, :)
  6. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex Mew is blue
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 28, 2010
    Celebi + Heatran work very well together, and you could consider using it over Infernape.
  7. Plus

    Plus 中国风暴
    is a Tutoris a Global Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Professor of B101

    Apr 8, 2008
    Hi there.

    Given the makeup of your team, and your extensive testing of this team as noted by your low deviation, it's great that you are already aware of the team's weaknesses.

    Although you have Rotom-w to check Landorus, it seems that you want a little more backup for your team -- and that's totally understandable. If you need a better way to deal with Landorus, perhaps you should consider changing your Haxorus to a CB Dragonite. What CB Dragonite loses in power (although its power is nothing to scoff at), it makes up in bulk, and priority. Mainly, CB Extremespeed should be the kind of insurance you are looking for when dealing with a Landorus without losing too much coverage -- because let's face it, a banded Outrage covers most of the metagame as is. Also, because you have a spinner in Tentacruel, this makes it easier for you to switch in Dragonite without fear of rocks, so it can properly use its multiscale ability, which can come in handy in dire situations where you absolutely need to tank a hit without dying in one turn (such as a Terrakion Stone Edge). It's also good to run Dragonite because he is much more customizable than Haxorus -- you have a plethora of moves to choose from, but I'd just stick to Outrage/Superpower/Extremespeed/Fire Punch for your team.

    If CB Dragonite isn't enough insurance for you for Terrakion even with Multiscale bulk and ExtremeSpeed, consider Mach Punch on Infernape. Honestly, I like U-turn in most cases as do you, but if Terrakion is that much of a problem, then there is always Mach Punch over U-turn. You can Stone Edge incoming Latis and Overheat Celebis, although it isn't as effective as U-turn, it's a sacrifice worth giving thought depending on your priorities.

    Alternatively, perhaps you can try ditching Infernape altogether for a more potent sweeper in Volcarona. Thanks to your Tentacruel, Volcarona is a viable choice for you because it can threaten nearly everything Infernape does depending on whether you use HP Ground or Giga Drain, bar Chansey and Blissey, both of which are handled by Dragonite, and can be stalled out by Ferrothorn if they do not carry Flamethrower. Volcarona also helps with your Reuniclus issues, which you have addressed in your post as well thanks to Bug Buzz. After one Quiver Dance, it will be very hard for your opponent to stop your sweep -- Volcarona and Dragonite are both extremely potent threats in today's metagame, and your defensive core in Ferrothorn and Tentacruel make an excellent support system for these two sweepers.

    Ultimately, Landorus and Terrakion are those kinds of threats where you have to play around them a little bit. Hopefully my suggestions will make that a bit easier for you should you choose to implement them.

    Dragonite @ CB
    Adamant 252 atk/196 spe/60 HP
    Outrage/Superpower/Fire Punch/ExtremeSpeed

    Volcarona @ Lum Berry
    Timid 252 satk/252spe/4 hp
    Fire Blast/Quiver Dance/Bug Buzz/(Giga Drain/HP Rock/HP Ground)

    The choice to use Volcarona is up to you obviously, although if you want to stick with Infernape, that's fine too. HP Rock is simply for opposing Volcarona, Dragonite, Salamence, and other Fire-types while Ground is mainly for Heatran. If rain teams give you trouble, then run Giga Drain.

    Hopefully I helped, good luck with your team =)

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