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Heracross

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by ooh_shiny, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. ooh_shiny

    ooh_shiny

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    Heracross​

    [​IMG]
    Base Stats: 80 | 125 | 75 | 40 | 95 | 85
    Typing: Bug / Fighting

    Intro: Heracross is a great contender for UU as it has great typing and nice attack stat. Stealth Rock is the best support move to help out Heracross since most of its counters take more damage from it (ex. Victini, Darmanitan, Xatu) Heracross can serve a variety of different roles and it may be too late for one if he/she guesses the wrong set.

    Sets:

    Choice Scarf
    Jolly/ Adamant
    4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf duh!
    Ability: Moxie
    Moves~
    -Megahorn
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Pursuit

    Possibly the most common set seen on Heracross and probably one of the best. With its DW ability, Heracross can pull a late game sweep quite nicely. This set is easily countered by bulky ghost types like Dusclops and Cofagrigus. They can be easily dealt with by phazers like Snorlax, Milotic, Blastoise.

    Status Orb
    Adamant/ Jolly
    4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    Item: Flame Orb/ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Guts
    Moves~
    -Megahorn
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Facade

    Non choice attacking set. Flame Orb is preferred if you want to stick around for more than two turns, but Toxic Orb inflicts less damage for those two turns.


    Swords Dance
    Jolly /Adamant
    4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/ Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    Moves~
    -Megahorn
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge/ Facade
    -Swords Dance

    This set is for people who need sheer power to break walls. Facade can be used if you hate Stone Edge's miss rate. Leftovers is to help Heracross gain some recovery from entry hazards and Flame Orb sacrifices longevity for power.

    Choice Band
    Jolly/ Adamant
    4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    Item: Choice Band... of course
    Ability: Moxie/ Guts
    Moves~
    -Megahorn
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Pursuit/ Earthquake

    Use Moxie if you want extra boosts or Guts to help against things like Toxic Spikes or burn.
  2. Captains

    Captains

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    Um... Actually, the Flying typing is a partial nuisance, due to taking x4 Super Effective damage from Rock type moves, cue StoneEdge Darmanitan, whilst losing 50% HP to Stealth Rock.

    So actually Heracross' typing is terrible in UU, benefiting only from STAB fighting moves, since none of your sets, or any standard sets use Heracross' Flying type to an advantage. The best it gets is Ground immunity (resists ground anyway) and Spikes and Poison Spikes immunity.
  3. Not Jacky

    Not Jacky

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    Heracross is Bug/Fighting, not Bug/Flying.

    Choice Band is an awesome set too, you should list that. With Stealth Rock up it has very few safe switch-ins.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    There's really no reason to use CBand over Swords Dance if you're not going Scarf Moxie imo. Heracross really doesn't enjoy being locked into one of its STAB moves, since there are handful of mons that can shrug its hits despite the 1.5x attack boost. Being able to double its attack and switch moves is what makes Heracross a great wallbreaker.
  5. Zarco

    Zarco

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    CB doesn't have to set up and can get the hell out of there without losing its boosts (and hera's a tad too slow to sweep anything) so CB breaks walls better. Not using status orb instead means you can nab a guys and CB boost which nukes just about everything. Scarf is still the best set though, no question, and because it plays so hit-and-run I'd prefer guts to absorb status and get a burn immunity, and punish Tspikes users.
  6. Iridium

    Iridium

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    nah
    physically defensive heracross is best heracross
    It has an incredible set of resists for taking physical hits---resists fighting/ground/bug without being weak to rock? awesome. weak only to types that are never used without STAB? (or almost never. fire punch does get used sometimes. but it's pretty weak anyway) Great.---and it hits super hard without investment into atk. Especially if it gets statused.
  7. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    @Iridium: That was a joke set, right?

    I agree with what Poppy said. Swords Dance Heracross is the way to go-since when most people see a Heracross they go to their physical wall, and promtly are faced with a +2 Heracross with incredible coverage. For example, a +2 Close Combat does 39%-45% on physically defensive Zapdos, and Heracross has Jolly nature and is holding Leftovers. And that's with a resisted move. With a +2 Stone Edge, you get 88%-104% which is a definite 1HKO with SR. So there goes one of the best physically defensive walls in the game. Sure, it loses to Gligar but Gligar is complete set-up bait for very common set-up sweepers like Mismagius who synergises incredibly well with Heracross, since Heracross nails the likes of Umbreon, Snorlax and Porygon2.

    So how does Swords Dance Heracross fare against some other popular physical walls? Bronzong is 2HKO's by Close Combat, Slowbro gets 1HKO'd by Megahorn and Arcanine is 2HKO'd by Stone Edge. Choice Band is walled much more easily as Heracross then has to switch out if the opponent resists the move. The status orb set for me dies to easily and quickly, and your Swords Dance Heracross can have Leftovers at the cost of a coverage move.
  8. Heroes and Cons

    Heroes and Cons

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    And you call yourself a "Qualified Pokemon Professor"? o_O You don't even know Heracross' typing...

    As for the sets, I would think the Ban and SD sets to be of mroe overall use than the scarf set, given the tier's large set of Physical walls. Slowbro and Cressalia don't like Megahorn but can take it from the Scarf set and Scald / Psychic back, while Suicune / Milotic laugh at anything the Scarf set possesses and can do whatever they want in response. Although the scarf set is used primarily for Revenge Killing, the opponent will usually switch into the walls to take the hit, leaving Heracross stuck unless it is boosted by Guts or a Choice Band to muscle through them.
  9. ooh_shiny

    ooh_shiny

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    I don't like the idea of Choice Band, since the Status Orb set hits for the same amount and you have the freedom to switch between moves. Swords Dance is an excellent wall breaking set, whereas Choice Scarf allows it to be a great late game sweeper.

    The sets I listed are the ones that really put Heracross to good use. Cobalion can use Choice Band better than Heracross due to its typing and better speed.
  10. Iridium

    Iridium

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    What? Of course not. Is any part of my post false or exaggerated?
  11. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

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    Not really, you have to consider with hazards and status Status Orb Heracross can die very quickly. CBHeracross has a place, it can instantly break walls and has that raw power if your team needs it but also doesn't have a timer ticking on it. Not to mention if you can predict a Toxic or WoW to get that Guts boost it's absolutely lethal.

    CBCobalion is not superior to CBHeracross at all, for one it can't break certain walls like Slowbro (X-Scissor 3HKO's after SR), it can't do anything to most Zapdos either. Heracross hits a lot harder as well. Their roles are similar but neither one is "better" then the other, it depends on your team.

    Though Heracross really shines in UU. SD, CB and Scarf are all really good sets with different purposes.
  12. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    Cobalion is nowhere near as good a Choice Band abuser as Heracross. Heracross has far superior offensive typing and a much higher attack stat. Cobalion has a higher speed stat, but Cobalion can't break through any wall that Heracross can't, and Cobalion can't take a status move, which Heracross can. The only reason why you'd run Cobalion is for the surprise factor. Anyway, SD Zangoose is a better wallbreaker than both(name me one wall that Zangoose doesn't 2HKO after a SD boost and Toxic Orb!), in my opinion anyway.
  13. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Yeah CB Cobalion is pretty bad. Heracross is generally better than Zangoose as a wallbreaker because it can actually switch into some attacks while Zangoose has a poor defensive typing and horrible defenses, making it difficult to switch in, and difficult to get a Swords Dance once it's in since it doesn't really force anything out.
  14. snarfboywonder

    snarfboywonder

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    So has anyone tried to make a Bulk Up set viable?
  15. vigi

    vigi

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    The problem with using Wallbreaker Heracross (and not Zangoose) is that you can't run Moxie Scarfcross to clean up...
  16. Iridium

    Iridium

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    I prefer scarf darm for cleaning up anyway. hits harder from the get go. I've never actually had a heracross get a moxie boost against me.
  17. ooh_shiny

    ooh_shiny

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    yeah, I guess CB cobalion is bad. It's no terrakion...

    But Heracross breaks walls better than Zangoose due to its dual stabs.

    Edit: Added Choice Band set due to popular opinion
  18. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    I've used Heracross the entire time I've been playing UU (the past few weeks) and I've got to say the Moxie Scarf set is just phenomenal. A pretty simple formula for a winning offensive team is to set up your hazards, play around until you get rid of their Fliers, Psychics, and Ghosts, then "Heracross used Close Combat!". Team Preview and Pursuit make this pretty easy.

    It's actually become such a common threat (and such a problem for my particular team) that I'm now running Aerial Ace on Scarf Heracross in order to check other Heracross. Losing Pursuit or Stone Edge is rough but there's not much that can check Heracross that fits on my team very well.

    The SD Orb set can be useful in particular situations but I never found Heracross to have the Speed or bulk (needs one of two) to pull off an easy sweep. I'm sure it's great to punch holes in slower teams and it's stall's worst nightmare. Status orb without SD is just stupid - the Orb activates so the opponent knows to switch to a faster Pokemon instead of a type resistance and then you're stuck anyway. Might as well go CB for harder damage right off the bat.
  19. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Choice Scarf Moxie Heracross is sooooooooo gooooooood.

    It's simultaneously infuriating and amazing at the same time. You can play a boss and get 6-0ed by Heracross lategame. You can screw up and have Heracross save your ass from a pinch. All you need to do is remove ghost types / bulky fliers / fucking crobat, and you've got a serious chance of winning. To this day I have not even considered using SD or CB (i'll admit their pretty good sets) they can't win entire games on their own. Don't get me wrong, i'm complaining (its entirely possible to prevent it from sweeping). Just giving it due respect.

    Heracross is like BW UU's X-factor. The ultimate comeback factor.
  20. Zarco

    Zarco

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    I don't see why Moxie is exclusively better on Scarfcross. Any good team can switch into it after is gets choice locked (even after moxie) as long as it isn't the endgame, you can't absorb status (esp. burns) or punish Tspikes. Guts lets you wallbreak as well as revenge. Don't get me wrong. Moxie is good. VERY good. But so is Guts and its capabilities.
  21. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    That's because the two abilities play a hell of a lot differently. As PK Gaming mentioned, Scarf MoxieCross can basically pull you out of any bad situation because of its Speed and how quickly the Attack boosts come into play. Guts is better used as a wall-breaker, as it lures status users and punishes them and their team, tearing holes for other sweepers on your team to exploit.

    Moxie is better on ScarfCross simply because Guts is much more situational, and doesn't really benefit Heracross' revenge killing capabilities. Rather than relying on a Burn or Poison, the Moxie boosts are practically granted once certain Pokemon (Ghost-types, Crobat, etc) are removed. Toxic Spikes doesn't see that much usage anymore despite Roserade being in the top 2 for usage (pretty sure Heracross has #1 now). Guts simply works better on a SD set (imo) because it's more likely to lure the Will-O-Wisp once at +2 and break down the walls on an opposing team.

    Or something like that.
  22. Zarco

    Zarco

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    Guts is more situational but unarguable viable. It should be slashed.
  23. hilarious

    hilarious

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    ^^short sweet and right but its not like these sets and descriptions above are whats going on site and so aren't too important (if you have a brain you can fix them up to make them better suited for your team).

    A bit late but I think physically defensive heracross (which happens to be specially defensive too not being 2hkod by leftovers Raikou!) is pretty awesome too mainly because it can check a whole bunch of stuff that no one else can without being pathetically weak (Gligar). It checks/counters mienshao, Heracross and Scrafty much better than any offensive set really with 252 hp and some defense and enough speed for adamant honch. adamant and just a couple attack evs means its about as strong as jolly scarfcross. It also is a great check to basically every single non-fire physical threat like Rhyperior and Flygon which is really cool. Steamrolls through Gligar and Dusclops (I use SD, Close Combat, Stone Edge and Megahorn which i think is optimal, bulk up might be usabale too).
  24. Aurora

    Aurora
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    Scarf MoxieCross is absolutely phenomenal, and (in my opinion) possibly the best Heracross set available, as the gradual accumulation of Attack boosts in tandem with its very high Speed can cause the tide of games to change the moment it is sent out.

    However, I do also like the idea of Guts, as status users are irritating as it is, and I feel the Attack boost gained from it would be very worthwhile. For now, though, I'm relying on my technique of killing status users with whichever appropriate Pokemon and then beginning my Moxie-bolstered sweep.

    The CB, SD and Orb sets somewhat turn me off, however - I don't feel they have the necessary Speed with which to efficiently and cleanly cut through the opponent's team (I detest being outsped when attempting a clean sweep as it is...) The raw power of the Choice Band set is quite impressive, though.
  25. Zarco

    Zarco

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    The goal of any non-scarf set is pretty much to break through walls, not sweep. So yes, they are slow, but very powerful. Guts is probably better except for Scarfcross (where guts is still very good) and substitute sets.

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