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Hidden OU (Final reveal pg. 17)
- Thread starter EV
- Start date
It also locks you in for three turns, which is why it's not viable in standard play and not going to be viable here.
EV
Banned deucer.
It locks you in for 2-5. I know some other moves that lock you in too (Outrage among them), and with the Aerilate boost (117 base power) it might be something to consider when you need to sweep with a high-powered Flying attack that isn't weak like Air Slash. Are people this immune to innovation? It's no contender for S rank, but Flying is easier to spam than something like Dragon.
Also it doesn't confuse you afterward.
Uproar is definitely worthwhile, though it can be problematic if the opponent has a setup sweeper that resists Flying.
(Or a Soundproof Mismagius, which could be a really good stop to Aerilate Yanmega if it becomes popular.)
(Or a Soundproof Mismagius, which could be a really good stop to Aerilate Yanmega if it becomes popular.)
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
I think Banette is far more broken that people are taking it to be. It doesn't need Prankster, Destiny Bond, Will-o-Wisp, or even setup. It has a lot of potential to completely shut down stall.
Something like this:
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk (I guess you could use infiltrator to willo something behind a sub but frisk is better for a one time use thing)
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 SpA
Brave Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
80 SpA Mega Banette Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 178-210 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Banette Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 284-336 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 426-502 (66.3 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Is stall even still viable in this meta, considering the sheer multitude of powerful stallbreakers and wallbreakers that arose because of new abilities?
Something like this:
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Frisk (I guess you could use infiltrator to willo something behind a sub but frisk is better for a one time use thing)
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 SpA
Brave Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
80 SpA Mega Banette Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 178-210 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Banette Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 284-336 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Banette Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 426-502 (66.3 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Is stall even still viable in this meta, considering the sheer multitude of powerful stallbreakers and wallbreakers that arose because of new abilities?
It's been 3 since Gen V, lol. Yanmega is too frail to stay in for that long, unlike the 600 BST pseudo-legendaries that spammed Outrage.
Well, it can also screw over RestTalk builds or ChestoRest, since they can't sleep during it. Nor can they put Yanmega to sleep to make it shut up and stop attacking.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
http://pastebin.com/qWZCd3Ga
Initial viability rankings, not gonna worry about it too much since I spent next to no time on it and only had Eevee General and yoman5 look over it. Its good enough, imo, to at least get people to learn the tier.
Initial viability rankings, not gonna worry about it too much since I spent next to no time on it and only had Eevee General and yoman5 look over it. Its good enough, imo, to at least get people to learn the tier.
No mega slowbro?
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Slowbronite has been officially BANNED from hidden OU.
I don't really feel the need to explain this, but here it goes. CM slowbro is already hard enough to handle, but with the ability simple, it takes very few turns to become nearly unbreakable on both sides of the spectrum. It also has a wide movepool to sweep with. Rock polish can even allow it to take a more offensive role, and as a result, the thing is completely broken to the point that it is virtually impossible for any well-played megabro team to lose. Therefore, it has been deemed way too powerful for the metagame, and thus been quickbanned. Thank you, and have fun playing.
I don't really feel the need to explain this, but here it goes. CM slowbro is already hard enough to handle, but with the ability simple, it takes very few turns to become nearly unbreakable on both sides of the spectrum. It also has a wide movepool to sweep with. Rock polish can even allow it to take a more offensive role, and as a result, the thing is completely broken to the point that it is virtually impossible for any well-played megabro team to lose. Therefore, it has been deemed way too powerful for the metagame, and thus been quickbanned. Thank you, and have fun playing.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Sorry for double post.
Upon further inspection, I am moving pixilate Togekiss up to A- rank. It is essentially a better Sylveon, having more bulk, reliable recovery, better overall coverage, and retaining baton pass as well as gaining nasty plot. Togekiss can run a miryad of sets: Choice specs, 3 atks + roost, specially defensive, physically defensive, bulky nasty plot, defog, and even choice scarf if you feel like being that guy. Either way, its a great mon you should be wary of facing with its surprising power.
Upon further inspection, I am moving pixilate Togekiss up to A- rank. It is essentially a better Sylveon, having more bulk, reliable recovery, better overall coverage, and retaining baton pass as well as gaining nasty plot. Togekiss can run a miryad of sets: Choice specs, 3 atks + roost, specially defensive, physically defensive, bulky nasty plot, defog, and even choice scarf if you feel like being that guy. Either way, its a great mon you should be wary of facing with its surprising power.
252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 179-212 (63.7 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Throh: 307-367 (69.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So basically another good Toge set is (probably) mixed WU+3 attacks because even without boosting it can finish off frail non resists and even reasonably bulky SE's even with its shit attack stat.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 242-286 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It also finishes off reasonably bulky neutrals at +1
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 247-292 (58.2 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 355-419 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It requires a +2 to finish off/KO more bulky threats though
252 SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 156-185 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 208-246 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
In case you're wondering how well it fairs with its special moves
Bad things about this set:
-Typically requires a boost to do significant damage with neutral nature non-hyper voice special moves or extreme speed
-Has to choose two of hyper voice, air slash, aura sphere, drain punch(ew), and aerial ace(ew)
-Probably wants to have roost as a move
252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Throh: 307-367 (69.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So basically another good Toge set is (probably) mixed WU+3 attacks because even without boosting it can finish off frail non resists and even reasonably bulky SE's even with its shit attack stat.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 242-286 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It also finishes off reasonably bulky neutrals at +1
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 247-292 (58.2 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 355-419 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It requires a +2 to finish off/KO more bulky threats though
252 SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 156-185 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 208-246 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
In case you're wondering how well it fairs with its special moves
Bad things about this set:
-Typically requires a boost to do significant damage with neutral nature non-hyper voice special moves or extreme speed
-Has to choose two of hyper voice, air slash, aura sphere, drain punch(ew), and aerial ace(ew)
-Probably wants to have roost as a move
tl;dr: mixed toge looks good and definitely deserves some playtesting
Or you could just send in something that walls it/take a hit and outspeed and can KO. These things include Heatran, Mega Diancie (even if it's not Mega yet), Magneton/zone, Aerodactyl (Mega or not), and more. I mean, you can try and take them all out, plus the many things that can revenge it, and sweep, but it's still niche at best.
EV
Banned deucer.
Suspecting Garchomp. Besides a few dedicated checks, this thing has very few stops to its rampage. Rain in general is pretty powerful, so this is a step to try and curb it.
Also, a lot of former Ubers are unbanned. I'll edit this with the full list once I get to my laptop.
Unbanned Ubers:
Also, a lot of former Ubers are unbanned. I'll edit this with the full list once I get to my laptop.
Unbanned Ubers:
- Mega stones
- Gengarite
- Kangaskhanite
- Lucarionite
- Mawilite
- Salamenceite
- Aegislash
- Blaziken
- Greninja
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I nominate mega gengar, megaluc, mega mawile, and mega kang for
EV
Banned deucer.
I think Mega Pidgeot is better than B rank solely for Gale Wings Aeroblast (or Hurricane but dat miss) and Defog. It's also 1 point shy of Talonflame in Attack, making a physical Gale Wings set not wholly out of the question. But if you're going physical, you have to ask why use it over Swanna, who has 87 Attack? Both have cul physical coverage, tho.
I know these are made for competitive and fun, but holy shit, if you want to make a fake leak, at least TRY with the screenshots.
English screenshot? Really?
Things I'm probably gonna get flamed for aside, I definitely think some of these HAs are beneficial.
-THANK GOD Samurott got a useful HA.
-Levitate is a godsend to Probopass.
-Fan Rotom: Now with 100% more usefulness and 95% less insult to injury.
-Pixelate Togekiss. Oh god.
English screenshot? Really?
Things I'm probably gonna get flamed for aside, I definitely think some of these HAs are beneficial.
-THANK GOD Samurott got a useful HA.
-Levitate is a godsend to Probopass.
-Fan Rotom: Now with 100% more usefulness and 95% less insult to injury.
-Pixelate Togekiss. Oh god.
Plz don't bashI know these are made for competitive and fun, but holy shit, if you want to make a fake leak, at least TRY with the screenshots.
English screenshot? Really?
Things I'm probably gonna get flamed for aside, I definitely think some of these HAs are beneficial.
-THANK GOD Samurott got a useful HA.
-Levitate is a godsend to Probopass.
-Fan Rotom: Now with 100% more usefulness and 95% less insult to injury.
-Pixelate Togekiss. Oh god.
On Guts flame, while not nearly as useful as Gale Wings, it gives Talon some much needed attack.
EV
Banned deucer.
Sigh.
Funny how the game screenshot in English is what tipped you off, when the Hyrulian text splattered on the leak didn't.
Seriously people, stop beating a dead horse. Just talk about the metagame lol. Do I have to keep saying this?
It's called "Hylian", not "Hyrulean". Just saying.
XD
Edit: And yes, I know you said to "just talk about the metagame". I'll see if I can come up with something intelligent to add to this post at some point.
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xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
https://www.piratepad.ca/p/Hidden_OU_Set_Database
Set Database where I rattled out a few quick sets. This is really for newer users who don't know how things work n shit, people don't like wasting time trying to figure out what is good in metagames like this and a SDB along with viability rankings, no matter how initial, help people understand the metagame a lot better.
Feel free to add sets, but don't fuck with others please.
Also, moving Mega Pidgeot up to A- Rank and Clefable up to A+
Mega Pidgeot is really good because of aeroblast and i don't need to explain it so w/e
Clefable has prankster, which seems good, but then you look at its movepool and just about shit your pants. Prankster healing wish? Check. Encore? Check. Thunder wave? Check. Screens and weather? Check. Reliable recovery? Check. This thing has everything it needs to be a dominating force in this metagame, and it can still run dangerous magic guard sets to go with it.
Set Database where I rattled out a few quick sets. This is really for newer users who don't know how things work n shit, people don't like wasting time trying to figure out what is good in metagames like this and a SDB along with viability rankings, no matter how initial, help people understand the metagame a lot better.
Feel free to add sets, but don't fuck with others please.
Also, moving Mega Pidgeot up to A- Rank and Clefable up to A+
Mega Pidgeot is really good because of aeroblast and i don't need to explain it so w/e
Clefable has prankster, which seems good, but then you look at its movepool and just about shit your pants. Prankster healing wish? Check. Encore? Check. Thunder wave? Check. Screens and weather? Check. Reliable recovery? Check. This thing has everything it needs to be a dominating force in this metagame, and it can still run dangerous magic guard sets to go with it.
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xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Double post again sry
Still waiting for eevee to code this on joims lab...If you want to play, feel free to hit me up on showdown.
Garchomp has been officially banned from Hidden OU.
The other one was obvious, but this one requires a bit more explanation. From the beginning, it was obvious that rain was a centralizing and overpowering force, to the point where it was more gen V reminiscent than anything else. Rain's potency was demonstrated by me and yoman5, who went on major win streaks abusing the powerful rain abusers and the extremely good setter in zapdos. After various possibilities were discussed, it was determined that if one thing had do go, it was Garchomp. Not Zapdos or Tornadus-i, but Garchomp. Why Garchomp? Here is what we determined after some testing: Its unwallable when it gets free switch-ins. LO SD in the rain is literally unstoppable without a dedicated check or counter, it handily beats common stall mons like thick fat hippo and other bulky walls. Even unaware slowbro can't avoid a 2hko, which is absolutely ridiculous for such a fast mon; there is no way we can handle that type of damage output from either side of the spectrum. Really, the only thing that handled it well was Togekiss, because its raw power and immunity to thunder wave would break everything else. Toge can't switch in on aqua jet unless its full physdef anyways, and if you go that route you lose some of the great power that makes it such a threat (not to say physdef isn't viable). Zapdos wasn't that broken itself, typing and stats left enough to be desired where we decided it was a balanced threat in the metagame, and taking it away would leave rain with kingdra as its setter (lol), making it pretty hard to run. Tornadus-I was also very, very powerful in the rain, but its held back by being easily revenge killed, paralyzed (prankster clefable says hi), and it can't boost meaning it can be walled by some grass resists including Zapdos itself. Garchomp screamed broken because nothing in the higher tier actually walls it, and it has very few checks as well. Therefore, Garchomp has been deemed way to powerful for Hidden OU, its combination of speed and power in the rain is just too much for the rest of the tier to handle, especially with its decent bulk and ability to tank weak priority. Garchomp is gone so playstyles besides rain can breathe.
The other one was obvious, but this one requires a bit more explanation. From the beginning, it was obvious that rain was a centralizing and overpowering force, to the point where it was more gen V reminiscent than anything else. Rain's potency was demonstrated by me and yoman5, who went on major win streaks abusing the powerful rain abusers and the extremely good setter in zapdos. After various possibilities were discussed, it was determined that if one thing had do go, it was Garchomp. Not Zapdos or Tornadus-i, but Garchomp. Why Garchomp? Here is what we determined after some testing: Its unwallable when it gets free switch-ins. LO SD in the rain is literally unstoppable without a dedicated check or counter, it handily beats common stall mons like thick fat hippo and other bulky walls. Even unaware slowbro can't avoid a 2hko, which is absolutely ridiculous for such a fast mon; there is no way we can handle that type of damage output from either side of the spectrum. Really, the only thing that handled it well was Togekiss, because its raw power and immunity to thunder wave would break everything else. Toge can't switch in on aqua jet unless its full physdef anyways, and if you go that route you lose some of the great power that makes it such a threat (not to say physdef isn't viable). Zapdos wasn't that broken itself, typing and stats left enough to be desired where we decided it was a balanced threat in the metagame, and taking it away would leave rain with kingdra as its setter (lol), making it pretty hard to run. Tornadus-I was also very, very powerful in the rain, but its held back by being easily revenge killed, paralyzed (prankster clefable says hi), and it can't boost meaning it can be walled by some grass resists including Zapdos itself. Garchomp screamed broken because nothing in the higher tier actually walls it, and it has very few checks as well. Therefore, Garchomp has been deemed way to powerful for Hidden OU, its combination of speed and power in the rain is just too much for the rest of the tier to handle, especially with its decent bulk and ability to tank weak priority. Garchomp is gone so playstyles besides rain can breathe.
Why is Aegislash unbanned? It still keeps Stance Change but now, also gets Shadow Tag, giving it two deadly abilities
Edit: Oh my god, the king has fallen. RIP M-Rayquaza
Edit 2: Farfetch'd and Ludicolo get Huge Power! Now I think this thing is far fetched and colo(I had to do it :)) M-Alakazam getting Pure power though is a godsend. It makes it a hundred times better, as it gets a wide variety of physical moves and superpower for Chansey destruction!
Edit 3: M-Absol might be the new Bisharp and the new Bisharp counter with that sacred sword
Edit 4: M-Camerupt w/ Adaptability is crazy! And it gets Magma Storm as a nice trapping move and STAB
P.S. Why doesn't anybody post after me, so I don't have to keep doing edits ;(
Edit: Oh my god, the king has fallen. RIP M-Rayquaza
Edit 2: Farfetch'd and Ludicolo get Huge Power! Now I think this thing is far fetched and colo(I had to do it :)) M-Alakazam getting Pure power though is a godsend. It makes it a hundred times better, as it gets a wide variety of physical moves and superpower for Chansey destruction!
Edit 3: M-Absol might be the new Bisharp and the new Bisharp counter with that sacred sword
Edit 4: M-Camerupt w/ Adaptability is crazy! And it gets Magma Storm as a nice trapping move and STAB
P.S. Why doesn't anybody post after me, so I don't have to keep doing edits ;(
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