Hitmontop

[spuds4ever]

Well, here we have it. The Mr. Multitask of UU. And he's so good at it, he's even learnt to stand on his head so he can use his feet too. I really used to hate hitmontop's design (a spinning top brothers to Bruce Lee's and Jackie Chan's reincarnations? Wth?) but he did start making me laugh a little and using him more he's grown on me a bit.

Anyway, Hitmontop is infamous for being one of the most dangerous (if not the most dangerous) spinners in the UU metagame. Take a look at his stats.

Statistics

HP50
Atk 95
Def 95
Sp. atk 35
sp. def 110
Speed 70

Abilities:
Technician: I think this is hitmontop's best ability especially considering the ammount of priority moves he carries and other handy moves like pursuit and rapid spin. This is the standard ability.

Intimidate: This is also a good ability considering hitmontop's fairly poor defence+HP stat. This is often used on a bulk up set and is effective on them too.

Standfast: I don't think this has been released yet (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but I can't imagine it's very useful considering his mediocre speed stat and truck load of priority attacks.

Though these are decent stats, where hitmontop's magic really lies is in his fantastic move-pool (notably, he has access to many offensive priority moves). This also is what lets him pull off so many different roles (and often several at the same time). Here are a few of his most popular sets.

Sweeper spinner @life orb
EVs: 252 atk, 252 HP/252 spe, 4 def
Adamant (+atk -sp. atk) Technician
Mach punch
rapid spin
stone edge/ sucker punch
close combat/ hi jump kick

A dangerous set which can hit hard and has priority. Hitmontop can work very well as a late game sweeper and that's exactly what this set allows him to do as well as spin.

Bulky attacker @leftovers
EVs: 252 HP, 252 sp. def
Careful (+sp. def -sp. atk) Intimidate/Technician
Bulk up
Mach punch
stone edge/sucker punch
hi jump kick/rapid spin/revenge

This set can be difficult to stop once it gets going. Intimidate basically ensures it will survive a hit and then bulk up a few times and away you go.

Technitop (credit to smogon) @life orb
EVs: 252 HP, 252 atk
Adamant (+atk -sp. atk) Technician
Fake out
Mach punch
close combat
Stone edge/ sucker punch/ bullet punch

Pretty straight forward, abuse priority as much as you can. Very handy for finishing off weak pokemon (Imo, if you want someone to do this, ambipom is a better choice).

Revenge spinner @black belt
EVs: 252 HP, 252 atk
Adamant Technician
Mach punch
hi jump kick
pursuit
rapid spin

This set is a personal favourite and a set I use myself. Pity the spinning top dosen't get payback, would be very handy... Either way, pursuit is very useful for revenge killing and will usually hit very hard as the opponent nearly always switches to a spin-blocker. It also hits sub-mismagius very badly. Mach punch is it's main revenge-killing tool obviously and hi jump kick hits very hard once you've gotten rid of their spin-blocker.

Pure spinner @leftovers
EVs: 252 HP (or sometimes speed), 252 atk/def/speed
Adamant/Timid Technician/Intimidate
rapid spin
foresight/sucker punch/ pursuit/toxic
mach punch/bullet punch
hi jump kick/close combat

The pure spinner is quite versatile and can use a lot of moves to work effectively. The second slot is an anti-ghost move. The third som way of causing priority damage, and the fourth to cause some major damage.

Putting Hitmontop on a team.

It's quite easy to slot hitmontop onto a team as he usually supports himself and functions in a similar way to a utility. He's handy for phazing teams bringing at least two elements to the table that are usually quite hard to get hold of in a team. He also works in offensive teams well, hitting hard and fast as well as supporting the team majorly by letting team members switch in and out a lot easier.

Countering hitmontop.

Hitmontop can be quite a pain to bring down but the best way is probably disabling him with a burn and switching in to spin blockers who will now have a much better chance of survival. Your best bet is probably dusclops who is bulky enough to survive some dark attacks, and can burn him too. Sableye can also work. That's really the main way. Other wise toxic-stalling can also work but burning turns him into set-up fodder for the likes of mismagius and such.

Disscuss ideas and strategies conserning hitmontop.

 

[CrazyBacon]

Toxic should almost be a given on spinning sets, ghosts will switch in if theres spikes/rocks on the field, attempting too spin block, and a well timed toxic can limit there ability too stay in. Also handy for crippling walls like slowbro (again who fears nothing at all from hitmontop)

Hitmontop really has no business staying in on ghosts anyways as short of a bullet punch theres not much he can do, and ghosts can burn/sub on him whilst all he can do is sit there spamming sucker punch or pursuit.... :s

 

[shofly12]

im not really seeing a ton of technitop around, and with good reason, as its too frail and not strong enough this gen to really stick around. most of the time when im using top, i go with a spinning set, since hes one of the best spinners around...

 

[Newmannium]

I hardly ever see TechniTop anymore, and for good reason. It has terrible 4MSS, is easy to play around, and wears out quickly. Its just not that good.

Ok, your sets. I'll be honest they seem very bad to me. The "Pure" Spinner set in particular is absolutely bizarre. 252 attack evs ? Adamant Nature ? Technician slashed over Intimidate ???

A dedicated spinner set, which is the standard nowadays, should always have 252 hp and defense evs, with Intimidate and an Impish nature. 50/95/110 defense are hardly ideal, particularly with his lack of resists, so he absolutely needs intimidate and maxed out defenses in order to perform well.

Mach Punch should be cut from the set, it has redundant coverage with HJK/CC and won't hit hard enough to be worth it. Bullet Punch would have been a decent choice to mess with Missy, but its useless against Chandelure, so I don't think its worth it anymore considering how weak it is and how redundant the coverage is with fighting. I agree with Crazy Bacon about Toxic, its almost a necessity to threaten the plethora of walls and set-up sweepers who can laugh off your other attacks.

 

[spuds4ever]

I hardly ever see TechniTop anymore, and for good reason. It has terrible 4MSS, is easy to play around, and wears out quickly. Its just not that good.

Ok, your sets. I'll be honest they seem very bad to me. The "Pure" Spinner set in particular is absolutely bizarre. 252 attack evs ? Adamant Nature ? Technician slashed over Intimidate ???

A dedicated spinner set, which is the standard nowadays, should always have 252 hp and defense evs, with Intimidate and an Impish nature. 50/95/110 defense are hardly ideal, particularly with his lack of resists, so he absolutely needs intimidate and maxed out defenses in order to perform well.

Mach Punch should be cut from the set, it has redundant coverage with HJK/CC and won't hit hard enough to be worth it. Bullet Punch would have been a decent choice to mess with Missy, but its useless against Chandelure, so I don't think its worth it anymore considering how weak it is and how redundant the coverage is with fighting. I agree with Crazy Bacon about Toxic, its almost a necessity to threaten the plethora of walls and set-up sweepers who can laugh off your other attacks.

About spinning, I don't really use it, I was just using an example to show hitmontop's versatility and, yes, it's pretty obvious to take 252 hp and def but some people just have other tastes or think they can shrug off threats like mismagius who can't will-o-wisp to my knowledge.

 

[shofly12]

umm...missy can learn WoW...not to be nitpicking or anything

 

[spuds4ever]

umm...missy can learn WoW...not to be nitpicking or anything

My bad. Maybe all the times I've encountered it, the player used a bad moveset but I've never been burnt by missy before.

 

[ToeyJoey]

The Dream World Ability of Hitmontop is "Steadfast" not "Standfast".

 

[shofly12]

do people see hitmontop rising in usage now that donphan is gone?

 

[Ace Emerald]

do people see hitmontop rising in usage now that donphan is gone?

He was already pretty high on usage before Donphan left. Really, I don't think he'll replace Donphan on any teams, that'll more likely be Claydol, due to similar typing and access to stealth rocks.

 

[spuds4ever]

He was already pretty high on usage before Donphan left. Really, I don't think he'll replace Donphan on any teams, that'll more likely be Claydol, due to similar typing and access to stealth rocks.

Although claydol has virtually no offensive presence and is completely stumped by spin blockers.

 

[shofly12]

I remember playing with a claydol earlier and finding a trick+scarf set semi-useful for stopping set-up sweepers but not sure how much utility that will have now.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

I've been seeing so much Top it's ridiculous.

And I think for good reason, IMO he's clearly the best spinner in the UU meta by a wide margin.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

idk but imo Blastoise gives Hitmontop a run for its money by not being crippled in exchange for spinning on ghosts (it doesn't care about burns and can spread them too). Sure, Hitmontop has Close Combat, but Scald is arguably better on a spinner due to burnhax.

 

[Ace Emerald]

In my opinion, Hitmontop is a little overhyped for a spinner period. Granted, Foresight spinning is nice, but Hitmontop has a serious problem with the spinblockers, being that he can't do much to any one them. All he has in his arsenal of attacks is Stone Edge, and a Close Combat that can hit super effective on Sableye and Spiritomb, and hits Mismaguis for decent damage if it isn't defensive. And there are even problems with that Close Combat, as he is most likely going to be using it the turn he should be spinning, thus giving up a crucial turn, and possibly losing his chance to spin. Add to this that all ghosts can render him useless for the rest of the match by burning (including Sableye and Mismagius, who can burn his quickly and lower Close Combat damage), and many times you have to fight a match 5-6 with lost momentum just to spin. Don't get me wrong, hes a decent spinner, but very far from the end-all spinning god.

 

[eriados]

The original post states that Hitmontop has access to every priority move in the game excluding Extremespeed. This is not correct, because 'Top cannot learn Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Shadow Sneak, Magic Coat, Snatch, Follow Me, Rage Powder, or Ally Switch. This should be fixed.

 

[SJCrew]

I've been seeing so much Top it's ridiculous.

And I think for good reason, IMO he's clearly the best spinner in the UU meta by a wide margin.

It's actually Blastoise. His typing and stats are better for taking hits than Top's and he has a better matchup against Ghosts across the board. Not to mention he can also Foresight spin.

Hitmontop, IMO, performs best when attempting a hybrid between offensive and utility roles, since he's pretty mediocre at both. I tend to put Rapid Spin on Technician sets to catch my opponent off guard for a free spin. Lum Berry and Foresight destroy Sableye.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

It's actually Blastoise. His typing and stats are better for taking hits than Top's and he has a better matchup against Ghosts across the board. Not to mention he can also Foresight spin.

Hitmontop, IMO, performs best when attempting a hybrid between offensive and utility roles, since he's pretty mediocre at both. I tend to put Rapid Spin on Technician sets to catch my opponent off guard for a free spin. Lum Berry and Foresight destroy Sableye.

lol better typing.

There are like 3 pokemon that can hit Top for super effective damage...with Zam gone, really only Mew hits him hard, and some SB Mews dont even freaking carry a psychic move....meanwhile Blastoise is scared off by some of THE most common pokemon in the freaking meta. It's also weak. At least Top has a niche of being a solid physical wall with intimidate, which is all anyone should be using for, and High Jump Kick can still hurt threats like Snorelax and other bulky steels.

Blastoise 90 percent of the time ends up being able to do nothing but Toxic and Roserade is usually waiting in the wings for the free switch in.

Also, kind of hard for Foresight to destroy Sableye when any competent Sableye player is going to priority Taunt.

 

[casey90]

I think what SJ was referring to is that blastoise is less likely to just get flat 2hko'd by nearly any mon it switches into, unlike Top, blastoise can switch in on the ubiquitous fire types in the tier, whereas Top can only really switch into....I'm actually having trouble thinking what Top DOES switch into. Hitmontop has tech mach punch, sucker punch, a moderately powerful CC and can spin, he's a better (as SJ said) hybrid attacker than dedicated Rapid Spinner

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Max defense pure spin top can switch into pretty much any physical attacker in the tier with Intimidate. Top's only problem is lack of reliable recovery means it's going to typically be 3 or 4HKO'd.

Top can switch into hard hitting steels and threaten with HJK and can also threaten Snorelax. Also, Toxic is a great move to get off when on the brink.

 

[casey90]

Fair enough, I've done a couple of calcs, and after intimidate Adamant Scarf Cross deals 34.5%-40.8% with Close Combat. So you can get the spin off most of the time upon switching in, so he's got some merit there. However, more often than not, chandelure is going to switch in unless you run stone edge, and get a sub up. Blastoise however can still phaze anything it can't kill on it's own, and can spread burn with it's primary attack. Apples and oranges I guess. Fun fact blastoise takes 41.7%-49,2% from the same CC from Hera

 

[pokemonisfun]

Spinners are supposed to spin and seeing as how many of the Pokemon in UU that use hazards are bulky (see: Roserade) the spinner had best be bulky enough to spin more than once a game for balanced and defensive teams that have staying power. To know just how good Hitmontop is, we should evaluate how competent it is as it's main role (as I doubt anyone would argue that Hitmontop is mainly used as a spinner now). Lets look at the two obvious factors in spinning: the spinner and the spinblocker.

Hitmontop has great 50/95/110 defenses when you factor in Intimidate and the fact that everyone maxes out its HP. Now consider the fact it can use Foresight to spin past blockers if you can guess right which is made easier with team preview. Common blockers include Sableye, Dusclops, Chandelure and Mismagius. Dusclops has nothing on Hitmontop and the hazard user would have to pivot to a powerful attacker that could KO Hitmontop on the Foresight if they want to have a shot of saving their hazards. Sableye fares better with Prankster Taunt but it still must avoid coming in on a Foresight. Mismagius can potentially 2HKO Hitmontop with an offensive set which are far more common than defensive Taunters. Essentially though, all Mismagius has to do must avoid a Foresight, which admittedly is easier said than done. After it comes in on a Rapid Spin it can proceed to Taunt or Substitute to avoid Sucker Punch. Chandelure is Hitmontop's biggest foe probably, because outside of Stone Edge and Sucker Punch, both of which do not KO Chandelure, Hitmontop can do little to stop the block. Even a predicted Foresight is not too helpful since Chandelure could just KO with a Choice Specs boosted Overheat or Fire Blast.

Blastoise faces similar problems but fares well against Chandelure in exchange for Mismagius being more dangerous-a Sub CM set easily sets up against Blastoise with a single good guess (Blastoise uses Boiling Water while Mismagius uses CM to be able to Substitute the Boiling Water the next turn. the Blastoise user is a bit screwed now). The main fact of the matter though is that not many Blastoise use Foresight since its too pressed to run Scald/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin/Dragon Tail. If Blastoise does not use Ice Beam then it loses the ability to reliably check Pokemon it really should as a bulky Water including Flygon. It becomes even more pathetic against Grass types. Dragon Tail is very necessary to stop Suicune and other stat boosters.

Hitmontop is a better spinner than Blastoise because it can much more easily switch into physical moves to spin and it can not only spin through the blockers but actually kill some of them. The only real problem it has is against Chandelure but that has to abuse Choice Specs in order to make sure Hitmontop cannot get its spin. Physically Defensive Blastoise cannot always get past Chandelure either with Energy Ball since Scald will not always KO with Rocks.

Essentially I am saying Hitmontop is a good spinner and since that is its main function along with being a tank/pivot/wall it is a good Pokemon

 

[spuds4ever]

The original post states that Hitmontop has access to every priority move in the game excluding Extremespeed. This is not correct, because 'Top cannot learn Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Shadow Sneak, Magic Coat, Snatch, Follow Me, Rage Powder, or Ally Switch. This should be fixed.

Fixed.

Anyway, I think blastoise and hitmontop play very differently and are quite difficult to compare. Hitmontop isn't as bulky as blastoise and can't phaze things, but he's much better at keeping up offensive pressure IMO, and can double up as a decent revenge killer with technician.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Spinners are supposed to spin and seeing as how many of the Pokemon in UU that use hazards are bulky (see: Roserade) the spinner had best be bulky enough to spin more than once a game for balanced and defensive teams that have staying power. To know just how good Hitmontop is, we should evaluate how competent it is as it's main role (as I doubt anyone would argue that Hitmontop is mainly used as a spinner now). Lets look at the two obvious factors in spinning: the spinner and the spinblocker.

Hitmontop has great 50/95/110 defenses when you factor in Intimidate and the fact that everyone maxes out its HP. Now consider the fact it can use Foresight to spin past blockers if you can guess right which is made easier with team preview. Common blockers include Sableye, Dusclops, Chandelure and Mismagius. Dusclops has nothing on Hitmontop and the hazard user would have to pivot to a powerful attacker that could KO Hitmontop on the Foresight if they want to have a shot of saving their hazards. Sableye fares better with Prankster Taunt but it still must avoid coming in on a Foresight. Mismagius can potentially 2HKO Hitmontop with an offensive set which are far more common than defensive Taunters. Essentially though, all Mismagius has to do must avoid a Foresight, which admittedly is easier said than done. After it comes in on a Rapid Spin it can proceed to Taunt or Substitute to avoid Sucker Punch. Chandelure is Hitmontop's biggest foe probably, because outside of Stone Edge and Sucker Punch, both of which do not KO Chandelure, Hitmontop can do little to stop the block. Even a predicted Foresight is not too helpful since Chandelure could just KO with a Choice Specs boosted Overheat or Fire Blast.

Blastoise faces similar problems but fares well against Chandelure in exchange for Mismagius being more dangerous-a Sub CM set easily sets up against Blastoise with a single good guess (Blastoise uses Boiling Water while Mismagius uses CM to be able to Substitute the Boiling Water the next turn. the Blastoise user is a bit screwed now). The main fact of the matter though is that not many Blastoise use Foresight since its too pressed to run Scald/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin/Dragon Tail. If Blastoise does not use Ice Beam then it loses the ability to reliably check Pokemon it really should as a bulky Water including Flygon. It becomes even more pathetic against Grass types. Dragon Tail is very necessary to stop Suicune and other stat boosters.

Hitmontop is a better spinner than Blastoise because it can much more easily switch into physical moves to spin and it can not only spin through the blockers but actually kill some of them. The only real problem it has is against Chandelure but that has to abuse Choice Specs in order to make sure Hitmontop cannot get its spin. Physically Defensive Blastoise cannot always get past Chandelure either with Energy Ball since Scald will not always KO with Rocks.

Essentially I am saying Hitmontop is a good spinner and since that is its main function along with being a tank/pivot/wall it is a good Pokemon

Agree with this post.

The only major advantage I'd give Blastoise is burn hax with Scald. Chandelure is easily remedied with a Pursuit trapper.

I play Sand primarily, so Hitmontop is very effective.