Ho-Oh (2/3)

[Fireburn]

_____________________
Overview
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+ Barn All
+ Extremely threatening bulky attacker that checks a lot of stuff
+ STAB Combo + Sacred Fire burn rate + 130 Attack make it one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into
+ 106/90/154 defenses combined with Regenerator and Roost allow it to check a large number of common threats such as Xerneas, Darkrai, CM Arceus formes
+ Hazard removal is easier than ever with new potent new Defog users in Lati@s and Magic Bounce mons that don't suck
- x4 SR weakness is still a huge pain that ruins its bulk
- x4 Rock weakness is exploitable
- Heavy weather abilities make it difficult to abuse sun


Choice Band
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name: Choice Band
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Sacred Fire
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Sleep Talk
ability: Regenerator
item: Choice Band
evs: 248 HP / 196 Atk / 52 SpD / 12 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

• Brave Bird and Sacred Fire are your bread and butter.
• The former hits extremely hard, landing OHKOes on 4 HP Primal Kyogre and Palkia as well as many other things.
• The latter is also quite strong and carries a solid 50% burn rate that enables Ho-Oh to easily take down Calm Mind Arceus and cripple would-be checks such as Rock-types and Mega Salamence
• Earthquake is for Heatran, Zekrom, and Rock-types
• Sleep Talk makes Ho-Oh a very solid Darkrai check as all 3 of moves either KO it or do severe damage

Set Details
========

• HP and SpD EVs ensure Xerneas never OHKOes a full HP Ho-Oh with +2 Thunder
• Rest goes into Attack for killing power
• Max Atk/Spe with Jolly is an option to get the jump on stuff like Yveltal and fast Groudon/Kyogre-Primal
• Can also invest Attack EVs into Defense, giving it similar bulk to defensive sets but with much higher attacking power

Usage Tips
========

• Keep SR off the field
• Bring this in every chance you can get to nuke stuff
  
• Pivot switch often to keep HP high with Regenerator
• Watch out for surprise Rock-type moves from stuff like Giratina-O, Aegislash, support Arceus, etc
  
• Using Sacred Fire early to burn checks is a solid idea
• Spamming Brave Bird might work better if they have something like Kyogre-Primal or just lack Flying resists
  
• If they have Arceus-Rock then throwing Earthquake out is usually a pretty safe bet

Team Options
========

• Defog support is a must. Latis, Giratina-O, and Arceus are all solid users
• Magic Bounce from Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye can help provide extra SR protection. Mega Diancie is a particularly notable partner since it baits many Steel-types that Ho-Oh can nab a free switch-in on
• Paralysis support from stuff like Groudon-Primal, Klefki, and Jirachi are useful since Ho-Oh is slow
• Groudon-Primal is a solid switch to both Kyogre-Primal and Zekrom, things that can revenge kill Ho-Oh. Ho-Oh can also weaken Groudon-Primal checks for a potential RP clean later
• Checks to Rock-types (Groudon-Primal, Groundceus, Dialga, Ferrothorn, Scizor) are all handy.
• Base Groudon provides Drought support, but with all the heavy weather in the metagame it can be hard to make good use of

Tank
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name: Tank
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Sacred Fire
move 3: Roost
move 4: Substitute / Earthquake
ability: Regenerator
item: Life Orb
evs: 248 HP / 196 Atk / 52 SpD / 12 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

• Brave Bird and Sacred Fire are your STABs and still do massive damage to everything
• Roost gives you reliable healing, giving Ho-Oh excellent survivability when combined with Regenerator
• Substitute eases prediction and can often force opponents to sac something just to break it if well timed
• Earthquake is still nice to beat up Rock-types, Zekrom, and Heatran
• TWave can work in the last slot to ensure Ho-Oh will be able to cut short a Xerneas sweep + support teammates

Set Details
========

• HP and SpD EVs ensure Xerneas never OHKOes a full HP Ho-Oh with +2 Thunder
• 12 Speed outruns Diancie before Mega Evolution
  
• Rest goes into Attack for killing power
• Just running max Attack works fine if you have backup Xerneas checks (which you should)

Usage Tips
========

• Keep SR off the field
• Steel-types and bulky Fairy-types are easy targets for free Subs
• Don't rely on it to check too much stuff due to SR weakness + role as a wallbreaker

Team Options
========

• C/P Band teammates
• Good checks to Rocks are more important since you might not have EQ (Groudon-Primal, Groundceus, Dialga, Ferrothorn, Scizor)
• Paralysis support is very nice with Sub - Groudon, Klefki, Kyogre, Palkia, and Jirachi all provide useful TWave support

Physically Defensive
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name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Sacred Fire
move 3: Roost
move 4: Whirlwind
ability: Regenerator
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 SpD
nature: Impish

Moves
========

• Brave Bird and Sacred Fire are your STABs, gives Ho-Oh great damage obvious for a defensive Pokemon
• Roost keeps you alive

Set Details
========

• HP and SpD EVs ensure Xerneas never OHKOes a full HP Ho-Oh with +2 Thunder
• Rest goes into Defense for tanking hits

Usage Tips
========

• Keep SR off the field
• Very solid check to Xerneas, Darkrai, most CM Arceus formes
• Phys def also lets it check stuff like Latis, Mewtwo Y, EKiller, Blaziken fairly effectively
  
• Take advantage of high mixed bulk

Team Options
========

• Defog/Spin still vital, might prefer ones with recovery like Arceus and Latis or defensive utility like Tentacruel
  
• Magic Bounce from Mega Diancie or Mega Sableye is still nice
• Pair with stuff that handles Electric and Rock moves - Ground-types, Dialga, Ferrothorn all work solidly
• Pair with good Rockceus checks like Kyogre-Primal, Grounds, Dialga, etc
• Pair with good Kyogre checks like Groudon-Primal, Latis, or Palkia

Other Options
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• Toxic cripples stuff like Lugia and Arceus-Rock
• Punishment wrecks CM Ghostceus
• Flame Charge / Tailwind can boost Speed to potentially let Ho-Oh do some late-game sweeping

Checks & Counters
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• STEALTH ROCK
  
• As for Pokemon Arceus-Rock is the best, resisting both STABs and packing Recover, but burns + Earthquake can cause even it to fall. Other Rock-types like Tyranitar and Mega Diancie can work somewhat
  
• Physically bulky Grounds like Gliscor, Groudon-Primal, and Landorus-T can tank a hit or two and KO with Stone Edge or Toxic stall in Gliscor's case
• Kyogre-Primal hates Brave Bird but it very effective at offensively pressuring Ho-Oh
• Heatran resists both STABs and can Toxic, dies to EQ
• Zekrom resists both STABs and OHKOes with Bolt Strike, hates EQ and burns
• Bulky Mega Salamence is annoying with Intimidate + high Defense
  
• Lures/faster mons with Rock moves take it down easily
• Toxic cuts Ho-Oh's impressive staying power significantly

 

[Fireburn]

Did this kinda quick so let me know if I missed anything!

 

[boltsandbombers]

Is Will-O-Wisp worth a mention somewhere in the defensive set or maybe in oo?

 

[Fireburn]

Is Will-O-Wisp worth a mention somewhere in the defensive set or maybe in oo?

Sacred Fire burns often enough to where Wisp typically is unnecessary, and there is no need to run it on any other set, so probably not I'd say.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Sacred Fire burns often enough to where Wisp typically is unnecessary, and there is no need to run it on any other set, so probably not I'd say.

Fair enough, that makes sense - I kinda brushed over the 50% burn chance from sacred fire, I'm tired lol.

 

[shrang]

Looks good.

qc approved 1/3

 

[Freeroamer]

I'm guessing it's cos you did this quick, but you appear to have c/p'd the set details from the second set into the third set, as it says "rest goes into attack for killing power" despite there being no attack investment. Also a note about how sets 2 and 3 play differently could be good, as looking at the sets they only have 1 different move and those new to Ubers could assume they're used in similar fashion whereas in reality they play quite differently.

 

[Fireburn]

I'm guessing it's cos you did this quick, but you appear to have c/p'd the set details from the second set into the third set, as it says "rest goes into attack for killing power" despite there being no attack investment. Also a note about how sets 2 and 3 play differently could be good, as looking at the sets they only have 1 different move and those new to Ubers could assume they're used in similar fashion whereas in reality they play quite differently.

Fixed.

Blue Jay stamp pls

 

[Blue Jay]

QC Approved 2/3

Keep in mind it's Rock Arceus in the write up.

 

[Minority]

Keep in mind it's Rock Arceus in the write up.

I was told both Arceus-Rock and Rock Arceus are perfectly acceptable so long as it is universal throughout your analysis.

 

[PISTOLERO]

.....

 

[Fireburn]

I added 12 Speed EVs to the CB/LO sets so you can try to kill Diancie with EQ as it Megas if it does not have/use Protect

Will write up as soon as I have time to

 

[Muk]

I was told both Arceus-Rock and Rock Arceus are perfectly acceptable so long as it is universal throughout your analysis.

"Rock Arceus" is objectively better. pls listen to Blue Jay, Fireburn.

 

[Minority]

"Rock Arceus" is objectively better.

On Gato Del Fuego's thread it says so, but why? On the dex, sim and a majority of articles + analyses the format Arceus-type is used. Arceus-type format gives a literal definition of what you are talking about, whereas type Arceus reads like a descriptor + Arceus which is vastly inferior. You can apply this to other forme change Pokemon such as Deoxys or Giratina and it reads just as terribly if not worse, in addition to being contradictory to the dex and sim.

 

[Muk]

On Gato Del Fuego's thread it says so, but why? On the dex, sim and a majority of articles + analyses the format Arceus-type is used. Arceus-type format gives a literal definition of what you are talking about, whereas type Arceus reads like a descriptor + Arceus which is vastly inferior. You can apply this to other forme change Pokemon such as Deoxys or Giratina and it reads just as terribly if not worse, in addition to being contradictory to the dex and sim.

Think of the types as adjectives, like with Mega/Primal Pokemon. You can't really do the same for Deoxys, Giratina, etc.

 

[Freeroamer]

Very nitpicky thought on the EV spreads, 12 Def lets you avoid being OHKOed by a +2 Adamant Silk Scarf Ekiller Extremespeed, or being OHKOed by a +0 one after rocks damage. At the very least, 4 Defense EVs does the same thing for the far more common (and better!) Jolly LO set. I know they're miniscule chances, but it's also miniscule investment, and while you should certainly not be using this as an Ekiller check, it can be useful for clutch. It's just nice to have that certainty outside of crits.

252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 175-208 (42.1 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Ho-Oh: 175-207 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 178-210 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 12 Def Ho-Oh: 175-207 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[PROBLEMS]

worth mentioning max speed adamant is still very viable as last resort speed ties but nothing else really to mention other than twave and tailwind slashed over or with eq and sub on the lo set as they are both very set worthy imo more so then the latter (i know you've mentioned twave but its atleast worth the slash, dont really need to mention to you why its needed lol)

 

[Nayrz]

Fireburn being QC leader doesn't save you from a 4 month john session, wheres the progress at :(

remember to change the analysis format to the new one!

 

[Inspirited]

Fireburn Fireburn Fireburn Fireburn Fireburn Fireburn Fireburn Fireburn Fireburn Fireburn @Furherburn @Firejohn

I am taking this if it is not written by the end of Sunday (GMT -7 in my case oc). This bird really should have been on-site ages ago.

Also: Thunder Wave > Substitute on Tank Bird. Checking most GeoXern is much more important than anything Substitute provides which in my experience is next to nothing.

 

[Fireburn]

Giving this to WreckDra because I am the johnsiest of johns