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Honchkrow (Skeleton) (QC Approved 1/2)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Don Honchkrorleone, Nov 15, 2010.

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  1. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    Skeleton done.

    QC checks: (Panamaxis),

    • Honchkrow hasn't changed much from Generation IV, but the metagame changed a lot.
    • Has a fantastic 125 Attack stat and a good 105 Special Attack, making him a good mixed sweeper with attacks like Sucker Punch, Brave Bird, Superpower and Heat Wave.
    • Incredibly frail. Can't take too many hits because his bad 52 defenses (although his HP is quite good with 100 base).
    • A bit slow with 71 Speed, being outsped by many powerful things such as Ononokusu and Doryuuzu.
    name: Mixkrow
    move 1: Sucker Punch
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Superpower / Substitute
    move 4: Heat Wave / Substitute
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Naughty / Naive
    Ability: Super Luck / Insomnia
    Evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    Set comments:
    • Honchkrow makes a formidable mixed sweeper with high offensive stats.
    • He can switch in locked Ground and Psychic moves and then proceed to kill.
    • Sucker Punch hits faster pokémon for good damage if they attacked. It's also a way to bypass Honchkrow's low Speed and kill some faster pokémon that are weak to Dark like Gengar, Shandera and Rock Polish Goruggo.
    • Brave Bird is a 120 physical Flying move (180 after STAB) that is capable of handicapping a lot of threats like Burungeru, Blissey, Evolution Stone Chansey, Roobushin (beware of Mach Punch) and Urugamosu to name a few.
    • Superpower finishes Choice locked Earth Power Sazandora, Tyranitar, Heatran, Empoleon and other pokémon that resists Dark + Flying combo.
    • Heat Wave surprises some physical walls like Skarmory and Nattorei, while also damaging Scizor, Forretress, Jirachi and Metagross for super effective damage.
    Additional comments
    • If Honchkrow finds an opportunity, Substitute is a good option, but generally inferior to either Superpower or Heat Wave.
    • Drill Peck can replace Brave Bird if the recoil is annoying, but the power drop will be huge.
    • A Naughty nature is preferred for the maximum damage, but if outspeeding Breloom and other things at base 70 or below Speed with a boosting nature is that important, so Naive is recommended.
    • Either of Honchkrow's abilities work here. Super Luck makes critical hits occur more often, while Insomnia grants a valuable Sleep immunity.
    Teammates and counters:
    • Honchkrow is a good wallbreaker. Most pokémon that enjoys have their counters killed by Honchkrow are good partners, especially Fighting ones that dislike Ghosts and Psychics, such as Roobushin, Machamp and Kojondo.
    • Honchkrow loves and hates Stealth Rock. Donphan and Forretress are good partners because they can set up rocks and spin them away at the same time. Donphan has a bonus of resisting Rock and being immune to Electric (like Honchkrow, Donphan is weak to Ice, however).
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Night Slash
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: Pursuit / Sucker Punch
    Item: Choice Band
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Super Luck / Insomnia
    Evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Set comments:
    • With a Choice Band, Honchkrow becomes a monster with his already high 125 Attack stat boosted.
    • Brave Bird is the main move, being capable of KOing (unless the big boss is KOed first, of course) Salamence, Gyarados, Garchomp and others due the Flying move's ridiculous power.
    • Night Slash is a good substitute for Sucker Punch because it hits always and against certain walls
    • Superpower rounds the coverage nailing some annoying Nattorei, Tyranitar and Terakion, among others.
    • Pursuit is a good move in the last slot because it can trap some random threat like Gengar, Shandera and Burungeru; while Sucker Punch is a quick answer to faster but frail pokémon that doesn't resist Dark like Starmie, Voltolos and Ononokusu (beware of becoming locked in Sucker Punch).
    Additional comments:
    • Trickery can also be an option here, but your Attack will be pretty high, reducing the effectiveness of Trickery.
    • Again, an emphasis in an Attack boosting nature is preferred to deal the more damage possible.
    Teammates and counters:
    • Choice Band Honchkrow fears Stealth Rock more than Mixkrow does, because Honchkrow will be switching a lot of time. Starmie, Donphan and Forretress can use Rapid Spin to blow away that nasty Stealth Rock. Donphan and Forretress can also set up entry hazards to help Honchkrow to grab some KOs.
    • Honchkrow is somewhat slow, so a teammate that can use Thunder Wave is welcome. Not only Thunder Wave paralyzes (therefore slows) non-Ground pokémon, but also makes Sucker Punch less appealing, thus preventing the big boss crow using it. Nattorei can use Thunder Wave very well because he scares off most Grounds with Power Whip. Nattorei can also set up entry hazards to help with Honchkrow's job.
    [Team options]
    • Hazards have been mentioned a lot of times, and for a good reason. Honchkrow's Flying-type makes he lose 25% of his health every time the big boss switches into Stealth Rock. Starmie, Donphan, Hitmontop and Forretress can spin away that nasty Stealth Rock, while offering good ways to deal with most of Honchkrow's counters.
    • Speaking of hazards, Honchkrow also appreciate them at the opponent's field, turning some 3HKOs into 2HKOs and some 2HKOs in OHKOs. Forretress and Donphan, mentioned early because of their ability to Spin away Stealth Rock, can also set up entry hazards. Donphan can set up Stealth Rock while Forretress can use all three forms (Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock). Nattorei, while can't learn Rapid Spin, can use Spikes and Stealth Rock. Nattorei can also use Thunder Wave to help with Honchkrow's low Speed.
    • Honchkrow is miserably frail. Some screen support goes well with him. Notable users of dual screens include Cresselia (can also use Thunder Wave), Jirachi (see Cresselia), Deoxys-S, Azelf and Bronzong, among others.
    • Honchkrow tends to kill some Ghost- and Psychic-type pokémon. Therefore, pokémon that can sweep after some Ghost- or Psychic-type fall. For example, Terakion can sweep freely after Goruggo or Claydol be KOed; Breloom and Birijion are monsters in absence of Shandera and Gengar; and Poliwrath, Blaziken and Infernape can open holes in teams after Burungeru and Starmie faint. This also applies to other pokémon, in particular Fighting-types such as Machamp, Roobushin and Kojondo.
    • Because of Honchkrow's low Speed, Trick Room is always welcome. Bronzong, Rankurusu and Bannete all can set up Trick Room reliably, thus helping with Honchkrow's job.
    [Optional changes]
    • Honchkrow has access to Nasty Plot to use with Dark Pulse, Heat Wave and a random Hidden Power, but his awful defenses and bad Speed hinder his abilities as a sweeper.
    • Choice Scarf boosts his not-so-good 71 Spe, but you're still outsped by lots of other dangerous Scarf users.
    • Trickery is good against Deoxys-A and Ononokusu, but Sucker Punch's priority and Night Slash potent Critical Hit are often better.
    • Drill Peck can be used as an option over Brave Bird if the recoil is a problem, but the power drop will be very significative.
    • Honchkrow also has Psychic and Shadow Ball in the offensive side, but Brave Bird and Sucker Punch outclasses them.
    • In the support department Honchkrow has some interesting tools.
    • Roost keeps the big boss alive from weak hits, Life Orb and Brave Bird, but it's rare to find an opportunity to use it. The same can be applied to a SubRoost set.
    • Honchkrow can Perish Trap, but his little brother Murkrow is better at it due to Mischevious Heart.
    • Postpone seems good on paper, but it only lasts one turn, and Honchkrow doesn't have the bulk to use it.
    • The big boss also has Taunt and Thunder Wave, but he should leave it for other pokémon.
    • Fly + Torment can be used, but Honchkrow is outclassed by Borutorosu and Randorosu.
    • Overconfidence is a good ability, but since it's illegal with Superpower and Heat Wave, both Super Luck and Insomnia outclass it.
    • Honchkrow, although having good HP, has miserable defenses, meaning that he can't take powerful neutral or super effective hits well.
    • Taking advantage of Honchkrow's low Speed and revenge killing him is the best method of getting rid of him.
    • Scizor and Roobushin can scare off Honchkrow with their powerful priority moves. Scizor must be careful of Heat Wave, whereas Roobushin has to watch out for Brave Bird.
    • Other kinds of priority (especially Ice Shard) is a good-bye to the big boss.
    • Anything that is faster than Honchkrow and resists Sucker Punch and has some sort of super effective or strong move can be considered as his counter, like Doryuuzu, Aianto and Metagross.
    • Anything that isn't hit for super effective damage from Dark, Flying, Fighting and Fire; and has enough bulk and offense can be considered as a Honchkrow also counter.
    [Dream World]
    • Honchkrow gets Overconfidence from Dream World, but is a two-edged sword: The attack boost is great, especially with Sucker Punch and Pursuit, but it's illegal with Superpower and Heat Wave. If Honchkrow has partners that can deal with pokémon that resist the Dark + Flying combo, then Overconfidence is a great addition.
  2. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    Done. Feedback appreciated.
  3. Jirachee

    Jirachee who dares wins
    is a Tournament Directoris a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Sep 24, 2010
    I think MixKrow should have Drill Peck slashed, else it will just kill itself with the recoil, other than that, a Substitute set would be good I think, with Roost, Sucker Punch/Night Slash and Heat Wave...
  4. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    In fact Honchkrow needs all power he has to kill things, but I understood your point. Adding Drill Peck to additional comments.

    And the SubRoost is good. Putting in other options.
  5. His Eminence Lord Poppington II

    His Eminence Lord Poppington II proverb:the fish who eats most dies still too
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 29, 2010
    I think a sub 3 attacks set warrants mention, especially due to the incredible synergy with sub and sucker. This is due to the amount of prediction that comes with using krow, and if you make one bad one you lose due to low speed / bad defenses.
    One other thing, I think running a naive/hasty nature would be better, to ENSURE your outspeeding of random jolly breloom's, making it a solid counter if switching in on spore.

    Honch@life orb

    Sucker Punch
    Brave Bird
    Superpower / Heat Wave.

    252 atk / 252 spe / 4 sp.a
  6. Farewell


    Jul 4, 2008
    I think the 3 Attack Substitute Set should have Salac and Overconfidence as an option. (And so should a Scarf set).

    Switch into a Psychic, or Ground Attack, Substitute down to activate berry. By that time you should be able to KO a foe, snatch an attack boost, and continue sweeping.

    With Salac, you can use Night Slash over Sucker Punch... After all, you will be pretty fast, and it gives you a more reliable attack. Additionally, Drill Peck over Brave Bird to avoid dying from recoil, and 1 Attack boost will make up for the weaker Base Power.
  7. chocolate-kipp


    Sep 18, 2010
    Sucker Punch seems like a bad idea on a Choice set...if someone figures out you're choiced (which they will pretty quickly) then they'll just start setting up instead.
  8. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck actual cannibal
    is a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    May 25, 2010
    Superpower seems like a kind of bad idea on the CB set, being a free +6 for Shadow Tag Shandera if and when it comes out.
    Of course, it doesn't exist yet.
    Just something to keep in mind eventually.

    As posted by others earlier, Substitute sets can be good on Honchkrow.
    They may deserve being an actual set posted, not just in other options.
    As the MixKrow seems to rely a lot on switching in on Choice-locked Ground-type moves, a Substitute set would work a lot better, setting up a sub on the opponent's inevitable switch. Using Superpower on a Sazandora locked into Earth Power is as likely as not going to turn out badly, the opponent almost certainly switching out.
    Substitute at least deserves a slash in on the MixKrow set.
    The only question is, which move could be replaced?
  9. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    Without Superpower, Honchkrow is just a Pidgeot with a Dark STAB.

    And, yeah. Tested Sub for some time and found somewhat useful, though you'll have to drop either Superpower or Heat Wave, since Brave Bird hits like a truck and Sucker Punch is priority. I'll mention in AC.

    God, for a very long period of time I haven't touched in this thread.
  10. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.


    Oct 14, 2010
    Wouldn't that set be outclassed by Murkrow this generation?
  11. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    Totally, because of it I'll be putting in other options (or optional changes. I's very hard to forget some names)

    Anything else?
  12. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 18, 2009
    Emphasise the act that Honchkrow is one of the best Breloom checks in existnce, with Insomnia and base 71 Speed.

    Regarding your comments on Pursuit for the CB Set. Unless Gengar and Shandera are Choice-locked onto Shadow Ball, they won't hesitate to demolish Honchkrow with Thunderbolt and Fire Blast / Overheat respctively. Mention a Pokemon like Chansey, who will likely switch fearing Superpower.

    Minor nitpick, but that is hazards "have been".
  13. panamaxis

    panamaxis how many seconds in eternity?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion

    Aug 30, 2008
    Everything looks fine to me.
    Quality Control Approved 1/2
  14. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 26, 2008
    People have to stop saying this. If Breloom predicts the switch and goes for the Focus Punch straight out or Subs instead of Sporing right away, Breloom can KO Honchkrow.

    Also, I question the merit of a Choice Band set. Unless you acquire a few more KOes than the Life Orb set would get, then I don't see why one should use it. It's switching in and out that much more, meaning that it takes more entry hazard damage (even though SR may not be as prevalent, it's still there). Additionally, by locking yourself into a move, you let yourself be set up bait for the next Pokemon instead of predicting that the opponent will set up and having a chance to strike back with the Life Orb set.
  15. panamaxis

    panamaxis how many seconds in eternity?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion

    Aug 30, 2008
    The CB has its niche in killing Blissey and Burungeru with Pursuit.
  16. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 29, 2008
    We could probably post here but I think it's unnecessary, so just wanted to note.

    Eo Ut Mortus, Setsuna, and I have decided against a Honchkrow analysis in OU, and it has been added to the "don't do an analysis on this" list. Sorry for the trouble, and when a UU tier becomes available, this analysis can be preserved.
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