How much more can our planet take

[En]

This may have been discussed before but I'd like to bring up the topic of the realistic outcomes the world has going for it at the moment. What I mean is that the world is running low on carbon fuels and anti-biotics. The world looks bleak from where we're standing right now. The lack of natural resources is starting to put a strain on the world economy and gas emissions are at an all time high in China. The air is toxic in heavily industrialized areas of the world forcing many residents to cover their faces before they go outside. It's only a matter of time before we run out of oil and then what? What's next? How exactly are we supposed to maintain the economy without the use of oil and other carbon based products? There's a very simple answer, we can't.

When the final oil wells finally tap out war will break out in an effort to keep the remaining resources in their respective countries and attack other nations withholding the oil. Once that's all gone our entire infrastructure will collapse and the entire world will be in chaos. Without oil our world cannot function. Alternative methods of power generation are not nearly as effective as burning oil and fossil fuels. Without oil our entire world will collapse around us.

If that wasn't bad enough bacteria are starting to get tricky and now we're literally running out of possible anti-biotics. The sheer fact bacteria can multiply every 20 minutes means that they are constantly becoming more and more immune to the things that could have previously stopped them before. Leaving us heavily exposed to certain diseases that 20 years before could have easily been treated. With the possibility of wiping out a huge chunk of the population.

Humanity's survival looks bleak but I'm curious to know what you all think could possibly come of our future?

 

[Knots]

We can't go on without fossil fuels? That's a little extreme, I think. As far as harvesting the amount of energy available to us on planet earth, we're a long way off even though fossil fuels may run out "soon". Fossil fuels are just the low hanging fruit.

As for your claim that we're running out of antibiotics, this is the first I'm hearing of it which is strange to me because I like to think I keep up with this kind of thing. Care to link some articles to source that claim with?

Whenever I think about what's next for humanity, where the future is etc, it's always pretty clear to me that we're going to have to spread to other planets and the sooner the better.

 

[LonelyNess]

In short: "It has already taken all it can take".

We are already past the point of no return regarding carbon emissions. There is no "natural" way for us to stop it anymore. No amount of "cutting down on fossil fuels" or any other going green initiative is enough to curb the inevitable catastrophic warming of the planet. (For example even if it were possible to somehow stop using -any- fossil fuels while also reforesting the Earth, it would take nearly 1000 years for us to get to pre-industrialization era temperatures)

There is something to be hopeful about in that there are ways to manually extract the CO2 from the atmosphere and recycle it, thus cooling the earth down more rapidly, but unfortunately hardly any money is being funneled into research for those venues.

So, basically, we are fucked.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

As for your claim that we're running out of antibiotics, this is the first I'm hearing of it which is strange to me because I like to think I keep up with this kind of thing. Care to link some articles to source that claim with?

Antibiotics have been a silent, growing problem in the world. The problem is not necessarily that the resources to make them are being depleted, but that infections have become resistant to the treatment. Hence, the label superbug you hear thrown around. MRSA is one of the most publicized infections that has become antibiotic resistant, which is commonly spread in hospitals, assisted living facilities, etc. It is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive for drug companies to make new, more powerful antibiotics. The reason for this is twofold: (1) A significant portion of the world's compounds that have been found to be "antibiotics" have already been made into drug form and (2) doctors have been over-prescribing antibiotics for decades, which has hastened the rate of antibiotic resistant infections.

 

[Knots]

snip

Now THIS I was aware of. OP made it sound like we were running out of the resources to make the antibiotics we already use. If this is what they meant, then ok.

snip

That seems to be the current consensus, yeah. As for the supposed ways we can "pull co2 out of the air and recycle it", I'm skeptical. I'm wondering if you have Newlight's "plastic from thin air" in mind. From what I understand about the science behind it, the process is wasteful.

 

[macle]

trees.

 

[Deck Knight]

Short answer:

Nuclear for mass energy production, hydrogen fuel cells for cars. I have no idea what we'll do to replace jet fuel, so that could be an issue.

No doubt someone will develop a synthetic lubricant of some kind for all of oil's other purposes. Or we'll just find a way to accelerate the process of natural oil production (REMEMBER: We didn't CREATE oil, we DISCOVERED it.)

Humans have proven remarkably crafty. Remember, we're the species that was living in caves and trees 10,000 years ago and now we basically run the show on the surface. The light bulb conquered night, electricity conquered cold, and the airplane conquered distance.

Of course, all this rides on not being taxed into poverty by green zealots who've never met a retardation of human progress they couldn't turn into a hack job or a government grant for themselves.

Either way, an Ice Age is much more dangerous to life - ALL LIFE - than a slow, creeping increase in planetary temperature measured over centuries. The temperature tolerance for most creatures is fairly broad - and it's going BELOW the tolerance that is more sure to inflict death than going above it. You need more water when the temperature climbs. If your shelter can't keep your temperature high enough, you're finished.

 

[Oglemi]

Just going to say I hate the title of the thread lol, the planet isn't going anywhere, the question is "how much more can we change the planet until we fuck ourselves?"

Planet Earth dgaf what we do, it ain't going anywhere.

 

[En]

Just going to say I hate the title of the thread lol, the planet isn't going anywhere, the question is "how much more can we change the planet until we fuck ourselves?"

Planet Earth dgaf what we do, it ain't going anywhere.

The title suits it, at least I feel that way.

 

[LonelyNess]

Either way, an Ice Age is much more dangerous to life - ALL LIFE - than a slow, creeping increase in planetary temperature measured over centuries. The temperature tolerance for most creatures is fairly broad - and it's going BELOW the tolerance that is more sure to inflict death than going above it. You need more water when the temperature climbs. If your shelter can't keep your temperature high enough, you're finished.

The thing is, it isn't the actual temperature that will kill us so much as the weather / current changes that will come about as a result of rising water levels. No one is saying that "humans can't handle the heat", but last I checked there aren't any humans who can breathe under water or survive endless tornadoes, hurricanes, and wildfires.

 

[billymills]

If you're worried about tsunamis and eruptions, you're just being dramatic. Flooding and desertification are probably the biggest concerns, primarily because the regions where the effects are going to be the strongest are the least equipped to do anything about it. (Island countries, desert areas) People aren't suddenly going to die. People are going to go hungry slowly.

 

[Relados]

The thing is, it isn't the actual temperature that will kill us so much as the weather / current changes that will come about as a result of rising water levels. No one is saying that "humans can't handle the heat", but last I checked there aren't any humans who can breathe under water or survive endless tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, wildfires and volcanic eruptions.

i never thought i'd say this but i think i found something aquaman is good for

 

[Cresselia~~]

As far as I'm concerned, China has invested a large amount on renewable resources, especially Wind Power.
There has been plans of a large wind farm in some valley in Xinjiang. (That valley is known for its high wind speed, that's why they chose there)

And to blame China for all the carbon emissions is just unfair. Have you ever taken account to how many people are in China?
Carbon used per capita from China is way lower than USA, or even EU! (edit: outdated data from 2010. China currently surpassed EU)
Politicians like to blame China for all the carbon emissions because the total amount of all its people is high.
It's people from USA who needs to stop their wasteful lifestyle, not China.

ALSO... laughs... air pollution in China isn't to do with carbon emissions-- it has nothing to do with global warming. Wrong gas, dude. As long as you aren't living in China, their air pollution has nothing to do with you.

It's also bloody stupid and ignorant to say that we can't go on without fossil fuels.
There will always be biofuel as the quickest substitute. (Not to mention many other substitutes)
Brazilian cars had been on alcohol biofuel for ages by now. None of Brazil's cars run on fossil fuels.
Then you have a large portion of India running on methane from cow's dung.
Some countries have been growing algae in their sewage systems which not only helps to deal with the sewage, it can also later be harvested into biofuel.

There's also lots of experiments on hydrogen batteries for cars aside of biofuel. I don't need to explain it, just google it yourself.

I think you should be ashamed of your ignorance.

I know I studied Environmental sciences when I was in year one, so I'm good at it. But still, you are far behind of what should be basic knowledge, you know. You really need to pay attention and catch up.

 

[billymills]

ALSO... laughs... air pollution in China isn't to do with carbon emissions-- it has nothing to do with global warming. Wrong gas, dude. As long as you aren't living in China, their air pollution has nothing to do with you.

I think you should be ashamed of your ignorance.

I know I studied Environmental sciences when I was in year one, so I'm good at it. But still, you are far behind of what should be basic knowledge, you know. You really need to pay attention and catch up.

 

[Cresselia~~]

stuff

It's more to do with nitrogen dioxide and sulfur compounds than carbon dioxide.
Neither of them are greenhouse gases.

The problem in China is due to the toxicity of the factory gases. (Which is NOT carbon dioxide.)

 

[Relados]

As far as I'm concerned, China has invested a large amount on renewable resources, especially Wind Power.
There has been plans of a large wind farm in some valley in Xinjiang. (That valley is known for its high wind speed, that's why they chose there)

And to blame China for all the carbon emissions is just unfair. Have you ever taken account to how many people are in China?
Carbon used per capita from China is way lower than USA, or even EU!
Politicians like to blame China for all the carbon emissions because the total amount of all its people is high.
It's people from USA who needs to stop their wasteful lifestyle, not China.

ALSO... laughs... air pollution in China isn't to do with carbon emissions-- it has nothing to do with global warming. Wrong gas, dude. As long as you aren't living in China, their air pollution has nothing to do with you.

It's also bloody stupid and ignorant to say that we can't go on without fossil fuels.
There will always be biofuel as the quickest substitute. (Not to mention many other substitutes)
Brazilian cars had been on alcohol biofuel for ages by now. None of Brazil's cars run on fossil fuels.
Then you have a large portion of India running on methane from cow's dung.
Some countries have been growing algae in their sewage systems which not only helps to deal with the sewage, it can also later be harvested into biofuel.

There's also lots of experiments on hydrogen batteries for cars aside of biofuel. I don't need to explain it, just google it yourself.

I think you should be ashamed of your ignorance.

I know I studied Environmental sciences when I was in year one, so I'm good at it. But still, you are far behind of what should be basic knowledge, you know. You really need to pay attention and catch up.

China's carbon emissions per person is among the highest of the world, and is above the global average. They also have the highest total, so they aren't exactly the most exemplary nation when it comes to environmental concerns. Did you happen to pass Environmental sciences?

e: Where is any title inaccurate?

 

[Cresselia~~]

China's carbon emissions per person is among the highest of the world, and is above the global average. They also have the highest total, so they aren't exactly the most exemplary nation when it comes to environmental concerns. Did you happen to pass Environmental sciences?

New data on carbon shows that China's emissions per head of population have surpassed the EU for the first time.
21 September 2014

Well, I passed mine back in 2012, oops, lol.
I should have said clearer. I quoted my charts from 2010 to 2012.

As of 2014
China is now producing 7.2 tonnes per person, to the EU's 6.8 tonnes. The US is still far ahead on 16.5 tonnes per person.

Inaccurate title is inaccurate. Read what's inside.

(Though I'm really surprised how much China has changed already)
It will be nice to see the charts of how they progressed/ changed in recent years, rather than just pick one year.

Thanks for informing me though, otherwise I wouldn't have noticed.

 

[Relados]

Wikipedia has a nice list of carbon emissions per capita over time. (It only goes up to 2012). The United States is going down in recent years, while China is going up.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Wikipedia has a nice list of carbon emissions per capita over time. (It only goes up to 2012). The United States is going down in recent years, while China is going up.

Good for USA!

Though I think China's increasing partly because of more plans to introduce electrical appliances to villages.
Those villages used to have no electricity going into them. And we are talking about lots of villages.
Factories are another thing though.
Good thing is, China should start to loose competitiveness in factory work, as Thailand and Vietnam offer even cheaper labour than China currently does.
Hopefully, countries like USA or Europe will start having their stuff made in Thailand and Vietnam, and stop their contracts with China.

 

[Lee]

I used to live in China and I think it gets a shitty deal from Western media outlets when it comes to environmental issues. Over the past few years, China have invested more into renewable energies than any other nation on Earth, and more than all of Europe combined. They have reached a point where a quarter of all renewable energy capacity in the world is based in China. You also have to realise that a third of China's emissions come from goods that were manufactured for export - export to Western countries, usually by Western-based businesses that have moved their base of operations over to China in order to cut costs. So yeah, remember that those emissions are coming from the likes of Apple and Wal-mart next time you way lyrical about how evil China are for producing such pollution. Furthermore, a huge chunk of the emissions also come from Guangdong - the area where most of the western world's rubbish is shipped to to be recycled. Europe and the US aren't equipped to deal with their own waste so they ship it to China which is basically the international equivalent of brushing it under the carpet.

China shouldn't be considered the anti-Christ in this environmental crisis; in many regards they should be considered the rolemodel. Sure, they do a lot of shit wrong but we are jointly responsible for a lot of their shortcomings and would do well to remember that.

For anyone interested in this matter, I would heartily recommend 'When a Billion Chinese Jump' by Jonathan Watts. A entertaining and informative read.

 

[The Immortal]

Enough for my lifetime.

Oh wait

 

[Phione]

We won't run out of oil anytime soon, by that I mean within the century, because of these new tar sands and stuff like that. But yeah, when we do run out, it will be chaos. We've also already gone past the point of no return in burning fossil fuels, so pretty much by 2150 the only animals left will be us and things that can live near us like bunnies and rats. We're completely screwed.

But hey, don't feel sad about it! Don't worry, it was all pointless anyway, because in 4 billion years the Sun will be so big that it will totally consume the Earth and eventually the rest of the solar system. And there's no hope of traveling to a new star, because there isn't enough fuel on Earth to make it to the nearest star (which is not habitable), it would take us millions of years even at the speed of light, going at the speed of light is impossible, and there are no solar winds to power us when we leave the Sun's influence. So relax, we were all going to die anyway =D

Why the actual fuck am I happy about this

 

[LonelyNess]

Why the actual fuck am I happy about this

Because either
A. you're a child / immature adult who doesn't truly grasp his mortality or the worth of human life and thus thinks it's cool/edgy to say he wishes the destruction of his species.

B. you're a sociopath. and no, it's not cool to be a sociopath.

 

[Alfalfa]

We won't run out of oil anytime soon, by that I mean within the century, because of these new tar sands and stuff like that. But yeah, when we do run out, it will be chaos. We've also already gone past the point of no return in burning fossil fuels, so pretty much by 2150 the only animals left will be us and things that can live near us like bunnies and rats. We're completely screwed.

But hey, don't feel sad about it! Don't worry, it was all pointless anyway, because in 4 billion years the Sun will be so big that it will totally consume the Earth and eventually the rest of the solar system. And there's no hope of traveling to a new star, because there isn't enough fuel on Earth to make it to the nearest star (which is not habitable), it would take us millions of years even at the speed of light, going at the speed of light is impossible, and there are no solar winds to power us when we leave the Sun's influence. So relax, we were all going to die anyway =D

Why the actual fuck am I happy about this

You are underestimating the potential of what we can do to fix the problem between now and then. Even if we wind up making the world inhabitable for the majority of the population, there is always two things we have: innovation and adaptation.

 

[Shinryu]

Eh, this is what colonizing other planets in our solar system is for. Give space colonization a chance people! Mars is ripe for the taking, and we can eventually make robots to withstand Venus' crushing temperatures to harvest resources from it. Maybe by then we'll have FTL capabilities to grab a few planets from other systems before being conquered by our new alien overlords.