How to maximize your Defenses

[X-Act]

What do you want for Snorlax, exactly, Hipno? To take hits from both sides well after a few Curses? I don't understand exactly what you want. Maybe PMing me would be better to explain it exactly.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

If you're factoring in stuff like CM, it would probably be easier to just put in a dropdown which lets you pick a stat boost level for defense and special defense ranging from -6 to +6. That would let you factor in any number of boosts from CM, Amnesia, Bulk Up, Harden, whatever, and it would include quirky moves like Metal Sound that you might, for some odd reason, want to consider.

The defense boosting items are Metal Powder(Ditto), Deepseascale(Clamperl), and Soul Dew(Lati@s). The other Pokespecific items either just boost an attacking stat(Deepseatooth, Light Ball, Thick Club) or the crit rate(Stick, Lucky Punch). I'm pretty sure Marvel Scale is the only trait that directly impacts your defenses. I don't recall the amount of the boosts the items give, but I think Metal Powder is bugged on NB so be wary of that.

I have thought about how such a program could be made to better accomadate Pokemon like Snorlax that want to take one type of hit very well and the other type somewhat well, and I think that's just kinda beyond the scope of the whole thing. I don't see any practical way to do something like that if you don't calculate the damage common threats are going to do and then EV like that, and that's mostly a matter of analysis and experimentation that's simply beyond what a mechanized program is going to be able to offer. I mean, I suppose a "bias" system could be implemented where you could make special defense durability matter twice as much as physical defense durability, but I doubt it would really help that much in making any EV spreads since at some point the user is imputting a completely arbitrary number to decide the bias, and that's really no different than just going into the team builder and putting EVs where they look pretty and still far inferior to those tedious but extremely useful manual damage calculations of common threats. Of course, an addition to the written analysis here suggesting how to go about that could help some people, but I'm sure others here are more qualified to write something like that so I'll leave it at that.

 

[X-Act]

Thanks for the list, AA. I was gonna try to help Hipno from the mathematics front, not by modifying my applet.

Yeah, I think choosing +Def or +SpDef and choosing -6 to +6 from a drop down menu is a good idea.

So I need to do that, and add Metal Powder, Deepseascale, Soul Dew, and Marvel Scale options. I'm kinda busy this week... maybe I'll be able to do it next week.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Ok so with lax, lets say I want 300 attack for whatever reason.
Your applet tells me to use 488 HP (108 evs), 244 Def (224) and 256 SDf (0) with +Def. Obviously I need my snorlax to have better special defense.. Lets say I want absolute max Special resistance.. I have 481 HP (80) and 350 SDf (252). But then as I battle I find I am generally survivng the special attacks I need to comfortably, but I am often taking just enough to be koed by physical attacks (generally in conjunction with spikes and toxic damage in varying amounts making calculation impossible). So I want to slightly increase my physical resistance while still using my EVs as efficiently as possible, should I increase HP or Def? Or should I increase both and if so in what ratios?

See my basic formula for EVs is HP = 2Def = 2Sdf = Att. I know it is overly simplistic, but generally it is close enough (usually I use 252/252/6 spreads anyway to save time). But it is only useful when the Def and SDf are equal.

Have a nice day.

 

[X-Act]

Okay, I understand your problem a lot better now.

I cannot give you an exact answer here, but what I'd do is fix the SpDef to something that tanks well enough first, and then use the overall physical harm formula (a+2D)/DH to maximise the physical defensive capabilities.

Now let's see what happens if I increase the defense by 1.

(a+2D)/DH would become (a+2(D+1))/(D+1)H = (a+2D+2)/(HD+H)

If I increase the HP by 1,

(a+2D)/DH would become (a+2D)/(D(H+1) = (a+2D)/(HD+D)

Basically, the only difference is that the denominator is increased by H in the first case, and by D in the second. (The numerator being added 2 to it is largely irrelevant, seeing as the value of a is large.)

Dividing by a larger number yields a lower defensive harm. If H>D, then increasing Defense is better, since (HD+H) would be bigger than (HD+D). If H<D, then increasing HP is better.

So what you need to do, in conclusion, is this: increase the lower stat.

In your Snorlax case, first fix your SpDef stat. Then, since Snorlax's HP is bigger than its Defense, putting all the remaining EVs in Defense is the best way to protect you.

This, admittedly, doesn't help you much. I'll think about it a bit more.

 

[WindScar]

Hey, can you dispose your applet for download, to use offline?

You can also make a script to set priority to defense or spdef, example:
I have a attacking skarmory with 252 EVs left, and i want to know the best EV spread to maximize its defense... if its 252hp, if its 252 def, half hp - half def, etc., etc.

Btw,
You rocks!

 

[obi]

Hmm, I reread what I wrote, and realized what I was saying only applies for tanking a single type of attack. So I don't believe Cosmic Power would drastically alter your defenses.

 

[X-Act]

Guys, sorry for neglecting my applet for the time being, but I'm kinda busy with some legal issues on some property purchasing (I'm buying a house). Basically I was posting only from work, so I didn't have time to modify my applet at all. Hopefully I'll modify my applet, and also make it downloadable for your offline needs soon.

 

[obi]

Something else that would be useful is that you could input your current EVs and base stats, and make it find a spread that gives the same defenses, Speed, Attack, and Special Attack with the least amount of EVs. For instance, if you put in this for Metagross

EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 104 Spd / 94 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

It would return this

EVs: 80 HP / 104 Atk / 184 Spd / 36 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
106 unused EVs.

 

[X-Act]

Hehe, you're giving me more and more things to do. I'd better start working on this soon. ;]

But sure, that's interesting, Obi. I'll do it, when I get the time.

 

[Deck Knight]

For Leftovers it is really pointless to try and do anything since the recovery is directly dependent on your pokemon's durability.

What you could do with hopefully little trouble, is just has a box to check that says:

Leftovers: HP Divisible by 16

Leftovers/Boost Berry: HP Divisible by 16 (+1)

and have it distribute the other EV's back to defenses.

 

[Muchabi]

I'd like an option that you ask for a certain slant... Like I was wondering how I could make Venusaur a better special-tank, but it keeps telling me to stick 200 in defense to bring the stats closer.

 

[X-Act]

Yeah, this was already asked for by Hipno. It's not too easy to do it, though. What could be done is: you give it the amount of emphasis you want.

Like, right now, the applet puts the same emphasis in Defense and SpDef, so it's 50:50. I could program it so that you input your emphasis, say 70:30, and then it find the best EV spread with your emphasis.

That's the most I can do, though.

 

[Hipmonlee]

I think that would be a big help tbh..

Also maybe if you could set one stat so like, say "I want at least the equivalent special resistance of 300hp and 200sdf" but I want to max defense or something.. I dunno if that would be possible..

Have a nice day.

 

[X-Act]

There's a lot of things I need to do... :]

I don't promise you'll see everything in the new applet immediately, but I'll give it a go. :]

I'm actually considering writing a new applet from scratch, with all these improvements. But that's okay.

 

[X-Act]

Sorry for double-posting.

Just to let you know that I managed to find a Biased Overall Harm formula, depending on your bias whether your Pokemon needs to take physical moves better, or special.

For example, if your bias is 60% physical defense and 40% special defense, it means you want your Pokemon to take moves better physically than specially, and it gives your appropriate defensive EVs in that case.

I also found a formula for the Overall Harm given that the Pokemon needs to take p% of its HP from a given move power by the opponent. For example, you input that your Snorlax needs to be able to take a Thunderbolt from a 383 SpAtk Zapdos for at most 30% of its HP, and the applet calculates your defensive EVs given this information. To implement this in the applet, though, I will probably make a different section for it... maybe an 'Advanced' button which allows you to input this information in a dialog box.

Now to actually find the time to code it. Stay tuned.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Wow, this sounds really sweet.. I am definitely looking forward to playing with this!

Have a nice day.

 

[X-Act]

The Defense EVs Applet has been updated.

It now contains the following additional options:

Soul Dew, Marvel Scale, Metal Powder.
Defense and Special Defense Stat Modifiers from -6 to +6.
EV Bias (inserting a bias so that the applet adds more defense EVs than special defense EVs, or vice versa).

Let me know if you find anything untoward.

I only have this left to do:

I also found a formula for the Overall Harm given that the Pokemon needs to take p% of its HP from a given move power by the opponent. For example, you input that your Snorlax needs to be able to take a Thunderbolt from a 383 SpAtk Zapdos for at most 30% of its HP, and the applet calculates your defensive EVs given this information.

I will do this in a separate applet, probably.

In the meantime, play around with this applet, and give me suggestions or bug reports. Thanks.

 

[Mekkah]

It now gives 507 HP, 203 Defense and 330 Special Defense for Snorlax with a 30/70 Def/SpDef bias with a +Special Defense nature. That is pretty damn close to the standard spread (though this is only if you say you have 508 EVs left).

Very, very cool. If you want your guide to be changed, tell me so and I'll fix it up. Or do it yourself since you have a badge, but you'll need someone from the Site Staff to cache it.

 

[X-Act]

(Here are two chapters to be updated in the original article. I edited the first post to show where exactly these two chapters would preferably be inserted.)


Biased Overall Harm

Sometimes, you don’t need your Pokemon to take hits equally well from both attacks and special attacks. Maybe you prefer your Pokemon to take hits better from the physical side, or from the special side. This is where the Biased Overall Harm comes in.

First, we introduce a bias factor B. B is a number between 0 and 1 inclusive, which gives me the degree of bias you want from the physical side. B=0 would make the Overall Harm formula take care of the special side exclusively; B=1 would make the formula take care of only the physical side; B=0.5 would make the Overall Harm formula take care of both equally (like it is right now). Of course, B can take any value you like between 0 and 1, which gives you varying degrees of bias.

Let’s see how we are going to incorporate this number in the Overall Harm formula now.

First of all, we rewrite the overall harm formula as follows:

Overall Harm = [(k + 2D) / HD] + [(k + 2S) / HS]

Recall that the first pair of square brackets is the damage you take from a physical hit, and the second pair of square brackets is the damage you take from a special hit of the same power. We now need to vary this damage according to the value of B. Here is how it’s done:

Biased Overall Harm = (2B)[(k + 2D) / HD] + (2 – 2B)[(k + 2S) / HS]

Let’s see what happens when B = 1:

Biased Overall Harm = (2(1))[(k + 2D) / HD] + (2 – 2(1))[(k + 2S) / HS]
= 2[(k + 2D) / HD] + 0[(k + 2S) / HS]
= 2[(k + 2D) / HD]

So, when B = 1, the overall harm formula returns the damage from two physical hits, and so the applet will exclusively raise the defense stat to try to lower the overall damage harm as much as possible.

When B = 0:

Biased Overall Harm = (2(0))[(k + 2D) / HD] + (2 – 2(0))[(k + 2S) / HS]
= 0[(k + 2D) / HD] + 2[(k + 2S) / HS]
= 2[(k + 2S) / HS]

This returned the damage from two special hits, and so the applet would try to increase the special defense stat as much as possible in this case.

And when B = 0.5:

Biased Overall Harm = (2(0.5))[(k + 2D) / HD] + (2 – 2(0.5))[(k + 2S) / HS]
= 1[(k + 2D) / HD] + 1[(k + 2S) / HS]
= [(k + 2D) / HD] + [(k + 2S) / HS]

This returned the usual, unbiased, overall harm formula we wrote before, as it should have done.


Raising Your Defenses

Sometimes, you raise your defenses during the match, either via moves, via items or via traits.

The item Soul Dew makes the Special Defense stat of Latios and Latias 1.5 times of what it was before. The item Metal Powder makes both the Defense and Special Defense of Ditto 1.5 times of what they were before.

The trait Marvel Scale makes the Defense of Milotic 1.5 times of what it was before if it is afflicted by a Special condition.

You can also raise your defense and special defense stats using moves such as Curse, Calm Mind, Amnesia, Iron Defense, etc.

The effect of these things in the overall harm formula is very minor: you just replace D and S, if necessary, by the modified defense and/or special defense stats.

 

[Mekkah]

Edited it in, I hope it's to your liking. This is such an awesome guide, you truly are a maths guru.

 

[daksunt]

I always had problems while building up my defense. From now on I don't think I would much have problems.

 

[Akayfortyseven]

If you could modify the applet to allow iv modification, that would be cool, since obviously ingame pokemon arent always going to be perfect.

 

[X-Act]

UPDATE: The applet has been updated to also include the IVs and Level of the Pokemon you wish to EV train. Maybe you want to play in Level 50 tournaments, or even Little Cups, so I decided to also include the Level.

Sorry for all those people who have been waiting for this update for long. It's finally been done.

If you find some bugs, please post. I think this will be the final version of the applet.

 

[obi]

Would it be possible to make the inverse of this? What I mean is let someone put in their EVs, and it moves them around so you have the same overall defensive abilities, and then tells you what the EVs should be and how much you save? For example, say I EV my Regice to be 252 Def / 252 SpAtk. I could put that in, it and it would spit out something like 176 HP / 96 Def, meaning I'd have the same defensive abilities with 232 EVs leftover.