ORAS OU Hyper Offense - Spammin' Dark for days

[da gold sun]

Hello! I've been playing around with a lot of offense cores, and found that hyper offense is definitely my style. It hasn't been the same as the old Deoxys-Bisharp-Aegislash core days, and I feel that bird-spam requires more set up than it lets on. So, I have combined several cores into one - a Gallade/Bisharp hyper offense core with Weavile as the revenge killer. The concept is very simple -- set up rocks, spam Knock Off with Weavile/Bisharp, clean up with Gallade.

So far, I have made it up to 1312 --- I'd like your opinions/help on how to get to 1450+. So far, I struggle with bulky-offense but do fine against balance/other hyper offense teams. I will include a threat section at the end.

Edits are in italics AND bold.

current username: scarf drowzee
Replay of team with Suicide-Lead Garchomp and M-Gallade -- http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-255967172



The team:

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail

The typical rock-setter for a hyper offense team. This set is in by popular demand, and I am enjoying it. I do miss the immediate offensive pressure that a fast Outrage put on the team early, but being able to tank fast hits like Iron Heads or Talonflame Brave Birds has been quite useful. Scarf Jirachi actually murders this team without Tank Garchomp. I still lead with this to get rocks up ASAP. Garchomp is always a threatening presence, so sending him out early usually guarantees I begin with momentum.

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Low Kick

Weavile has never been meta since the beginning of competitive Gen IV/DPPt. I don't understand why -- it hits like a truck, revenge kills a majority of all threatening Pokemon in existence, and its offensive typing is amazing. This guy has single-handedly won me at least half my matches because most teams do not prepare for him. Most people use bulky ground types as their defensive wall, which Weavile demolishes, and Gallade, and to an arguably greater extent, Bisharp, greatly appreciate this. Lati@s stands no chance against this team with both Bisharp and Weavile present, and Garchomps of any variant must proceed with caution. Weavile also serves as a good check to the genies, as Ice Shard out-prioritizes Thundurus-I Thunder Wave. For some reason, people at ~1200 elo think Heatran is a good switch in to Weavile. Well...

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 307-361 (79.7 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So after rocks/switching in to another move, Heatran is gone or at least severely weakened, which is great since most of my team struggles with it.

Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch

Bisharp is the reason Intimidate users have to think twice about coming in on my other 3 physical sweepers. Steel-STAB also keeps Fairy types off my core, as it OHKO's most defensive fairies after rocks and/or if they switch in to something like Knock Off. I run Pursuit to trap Lati@s and things like Hoopa. I don't think there's much more to explain.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]

This team was too heavy on the physical side, so I played around with Scarf Gardevoir for a while. The quick Fairy STAB was nice, but she didn't hit as hard as I wanted. I did miss the Fighting resist, but I wanted something that did more damage. The next best option was Sylveon, equipped with Choice Specs to do the most damage possible. Generally, the idea is to spam Hyper Voice while switching in to fighting attacks, especially Mach Punch, and scare most things out. Hidden Power Ground is for Heatran who otherwise walls me. 8 speed EVs to outspeed neutral, 0 EV base 60's. Rest in HP to keep some bulk. I will admit, I do miss having Healing Wish. I'm considering replacing this for Scarf Jirachi so I'm not as weak to steel.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Used to be: Skill Swap Mega-Gallade.
Alright, I'll admit it. Gallade might be overrated --- its too slow initially, and doesn't provide enough immediate offensive threat. It also left my team very weak to Fairy, and would let me down if the opponent still had Talonflame or Sableye as one of their last Pokemon. Mega-Scizor does everything that Gallade couldn't --- provide immediate threat in the form of STAB priority, check fairies, and provide a reliable win-condition in the late game. The only thing I'm worried about for him is the weakness to status, but again, he's the only real good mega-slot for this team at its core right now. I always hate facing this thing, but now, I understand why.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Hex
- Wil-o-Wisp
- Taunt

And finally, the fairy-killer and other special wall-breaker, Gengar. Originally this was Manaphy, but I found he wasn't really adding anything to the team other than a third sweeper that wasn't quite fast enough. With this set, Gengar breaks stall down and also weakens most physical attackers that threaten this team via burn. He also is my other Fighting switch-in, as I can't rely on Sylveon alone to cover two 4x weaknesses. Gengar's typing stops stall-Gliscor dead in its tracks (who walls everything except Weavile and maybe Sylveon). This set has made it much easier to break through more defensively oriented teams with stall-breaking potential. I kept Sludge Wave so I actually have some more coverage for fairies.

!! Threats !!
Bulky Fairy types -- Azumarill and opposing Sylveon are particularly rough, as both Gengar and Bisharp don't like switching in. Chances are, if these guys are already on the field, someone is taking one for the team and going down. This, of course, limits my available plays from there (which is already minimal because of the nature of this team).

Scizor -- God I hate this thing. Except for Garchomp, all kinds of Scizor scare this team to death, especially if it carries SuperPower. Technician Bug Bite has potential to really dent this team too, for example: 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 180-213 (66.1 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Water sweepers -- I've been fortunate to not face any good users of these, but Mega Gyarados in particular really scares me. I have nothing that can check or revenge it after one DD.

Talonflame -- less of an issue thanks to Tank Garchomp.

Others -- Maybe I'm missing something that you can help me catch.

As always, any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated! Thank you in advance!

Currently testing: Azumarill > Sylveon

 

[Blazikarados]

This team is really weak to Talonflame, especially offensive variants. I feel like you already have enough raw power on the team between monsters like Specs sylveon, M-Gallade, and the other three that you don't really need an offensive SR set on Garchomp--I think Helmet chomp is probably better than sash in this case even though it loses some power in breaking.

 

[ClockworkLad]

Triple Dark Bitcharp is really ineffective. Of course someone can correct me, but The 3 attacks are situational (Knock Off being the slight exception but ya know megas). Sucker Punch is OP but someone can keep spamming their setup move. Pursuit is useful but most ghosts carry Focus Blast normally. Also there's EQ Lure Latios that murders Heatran and a little more attack investment kills Bisharp. Replacing Pursuit with either Swords Dance or Low Kick would be a better idea. SD for obvious reasons, because after any sort of Intimidate, you can literally just SD on their whatever (Unless Lando-T EQ's your arse). Low Kick Bisharp for Weavile, opposing Bisharp, or really anything that's weak to it.

Of course you can opt to stay but keep the risks in mind.

 

[Treeckoinsurance]

Team looks solid and I agree with the talonflame comment, once that sash is broken on garchomp (which will most likely happen since its your lead) you get swept by t flame.

Gengar set could use some work. Firstly the evs are off (should be 4 spec def instead of 6). Secondly, the sub painsplit set, while not unviable, isn't great. If you want to keep substitute, try the sub WoW set with hex. You'll still be able to check fairies and you'll help your teammates out by burning physical attackers letting gallate set up more easily. Also, it's fun burning gliscor if it's toxic orb isnt activated on the switch. (Would post the set but I'm on my phone)

For bisharp, if you run the pursuit trapping set, go with black glasses for longevity and throw 56 evs into spec def so he can live a Latios hp fire and proceed to trap him.

One last suggestion, and this one is more optional than the others, try out skill swap gallade (and no it's not gimmicky it's really effective). For one mega gallade's ability isn't great or necessary for his usage. Secondly, he's walled by a lot of mons who really on their ability ie mega sableye. It's great stealing his magic bounce and then he takes a WoW to the face. Also, you can counter the fairies you mentioned in your threats. Azumaril comes in to smack you with play rough? cop his huge power making him hilariously ineffective and you're attack is now ridiculous. Sylveon wants to go for hyper voice? Well you just cop pixilate and that fairy move turns normal lol. (Again can't post the sets but go with sd, knock off/zen headbutt, drain punch, skill swap)

Other than that, team looks good. Good luck laddering.


Edit: you also have a huge problem getting past spec def skarmory( who is gaining a lot of usage) since sylveon runs hp ground so WoW or taunt gengar is a must

 

[da gold sun]

Alright, sorry for the late reply --- I've been out of town for the weekend. Thank you for your suggestions, they have been quite helpful.

Issues I've addressed:
- Gengar's set is now stall-breaker with WoW/Hex/Taunt
- Skill Swap Gallade
- Black Glasses Bisharp

Issues to look into more:
- Talonflame weakness
- Garchomp's set
- Sylveon's usefulness

I feel like after some more playtesting, Sylveon is the least useful member of the team (it often dies before getting a KO) and Weavile/Gengar often do the most work. M-Gallade is getting the wins, but only if its the last one-standing. The early/mid game Knock Off spam gets 2-3 kills and often leaves a tank dead for Gallade to pick off later, and rocks almost always stay up if I'm smart with my Bisharp and Gengar switch-ins.

So far, I am climbing more easily with the changes, but I'm looking ahead to issues down the road. Keep posting :)

 

[Treeckoinsurance]

Alright, sorry for the late reply --- I've been out of town for the weekend. Thank you for your suggestions, they have been quite helpful.

Issues I've addressed:
- Gengar's set is now stall-breaker with WoW/Hex/Taunt
- Skill Swap Gallade
- Black Glasses Bisharp

Issues to look into more:
- Talonflame weakness
- Garchomp's set
- Sylveon's usefulness

I feel like after some more playtesting, Sylveon is the least useful member of the team (it often dies before getting a KO) and Weavile/Gengar often do the most work. M-Gallade is getting the wins, but only if its the last one-standing. The early/mid game Knock Off spam gets 2-3 kills and often leaves a tank dead for Gallade to pick off later, and rocks almost always stay up if I'm smart with my Bisharp and Gengar switch-ins.

So far, I am climbing more easily with the changes, but I'm looking ahead to issues down the road. Keep posting :)

Sorry for my late reply haha. Since the talonflame is still an issue you could switch sylveon for rotom-w. Rotom w counters t flame plus gives you a nice volt switch so you can snag momentum. This makes you slightly weak to serperior but weavile can always revenge kill it or volt switch as serp comes in. Of course, this change should only be used if you want to keep offensive chomp. If you change garchomp to the tank chomp set, he becomes a more reliable t flame check.

If you decide to switch to tank chomp, I would still switch sylveon to a water type since your team struggles with offensive fire types. Manaphy could help you break stall more easily, and starmie could provide spin support (but does make you pursuit weak)

 

[celes]

Hey da gold sun, i think i have few suggestions to help improve your team.

To mitigate your massive weakness to Talonflame and Scizor I'd suggest replacing Sash Chomp to Rocky Helmet with Fire Blast.

You also have no water resist or a reliable answer to Zard X or Weavile, which Azu can help with immensely as well as keep up offensive presence. I'd recommend dropping Sylveon to fit Azu in. CB Azu has even less switch-ins than Specs Sylv, so you still have a great wallbreaker. It also helps you against Scarf Mold Breaker Excadrill and LO Excadrill in the sand which can OHKO almost every member in your team very easily late game with you having nothing to respond with otherwise. Adding Azu helps with water set up mons like Gyarados and Feraligatr as well.

I'd also recommend changing M-Gallade to M-Scizor for a mon to be able to switch into Azu and other fairies, as well as prevent you from being 6-0'd by M-Altaria with only Weavile's Ice Shard to even do any real damage to it when it gets to +1 speed (assuming Jolly) I personally like fast SD + 3Atks a lot, but you can opt for a bulky Roost variant for longevity if you'd like.

You can go with AV Hoopa to deal with fast electrics like Thundurus, Raikou, and M-Manectric, as well as a lure for Hippowdon, Skarm, and bulky waters with a full special set of Psyshock / Dark Pulse / Focus Blast / Grass Knot, or you could run Latias which offers less offensive potential, but provides helpful Healing Wish support and a check to fast electrics, Rotom-W, and mainly Keldeo without having to risk a burn on Azumarill. You could also replace Bisharp for an Offensive Chople Heatran for a fast Electric check as well as a decent M-Pinsir answer, a Serperior counter, and a check to Zard X and Y. It's up to you really.

Sets:

Hide

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower
- Aqua Jet

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish
- Recover / Thunderbolt

Hoopa-Unbound @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Stone Edge / Hidden Power [Ice]

The changes I'd recommend for sure are;
Azu > Sylveon
M-Scizor > M-Gallade
Rocky Helmet Chomp > Sash Chomp.

Subjective changes;
Latias > Bisharp or Gengar
Chople Heatran > Bisharp
AV Hoopa > Bisharp

(I do feel like you should make on of the above changes however to be able to deal with fast electrics)

As for set details, Garchomp speed creeps mons that aim to outspeed Base 70s, M-Scizor outspeeds Max Speed Magnezone, Azu outspeeds no speed regular Scizor, Latias ia a standard spread for taking on Thundurus. TBolt is nice for catching Skarm, SpDef Talonflame and Azu but Recover is great for longevity. Heatran and Hoopa-U are just standard Max / Max. Stone Edge on Heatran is great for Zard Y and SpDef Talonflame, and Tornadus-Therian, but HP Ice has a lot of utility in luring in and weaking Garchomp and Landorus-Therian.

Good luck with the team!

 

[da gold sun]

Thank you everyone again for the continued replies --- I haven't put this much thought into a team since DPPt. I'm enjoying the journey!

I have updated the OP again to include the following changes: Tank Garchomp, M-Gallade --> Mega Scizor.

Mega-Scizor is already proving to be much more reliable than Mega-Gallade for cleanup crew/win condition. I'm not longer scared of fairies and I have some hard priority in case of any late game threats.

celes, I'm giving all of your suggestions some thought, starting with Azumarill. I miss the special-Fairy spam mid game, but I did realize that Azumarill does immediately help patch up the Weavile and Excadrill weakness. I want to try Hoopa > Bisharp, but I'll miss having the Defog-Lati@s check in Bisharp, as once my rocks are gone, they'll probably stay gone unless I'm preserving Garchomp.

The MVP of this team is, and always has been, Weavile, so he's there to stay.