I couldn't think of a title for this team so here it is [OU]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by polelover44, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. polelover44

    polelover44

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,406
    I haven't played competitively since Gen IV, but lately I've been trying to come back, because I found competitive battling fun. I didn't know much about the current metagame (pretty much nothing, to be specific), but I wanted to set up around a pokemon that I had been wanting to use for a while: Multiscale Dragonite. I really liked using Gyarados's bulky Dragon Dance set from Gen IV, and I figured that with its superior natural bulk, more reliable recovery, higher base Attack, and now Multiscale, Dragonite should be quite difficult to kill.

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    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Stealth Rock
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    Versatile, annoying, hax, these are some of the many terms used to describe Jirachi. With a BST of 600, and a base of 100 in every stat, it does seem like there's not a lot the little pixie can't do. Jirachi here serves as my main special wall, wish support for the team, and Stealth Rock. Wish helps in quite a few ways. It can heal any team member low on health, in can help to keep Dragonite at 100% after Stealth Rock, and it can heal Jirachi itself. Stealth Rock is pretty much mandatory for any team, and since Jirachi has Stealth Rock it will largely be serving as my lead. With Body Slam and Iron Head, Jirachi can paralyze annoying opponents and flinch-hax them to death. Because of the investment into SDef and HP, it can switch in on pokemon that are very threatening to my team, namely Tornadus-T.

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    Hydreigon (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Superpower
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    Hydreigon is an absolute monster. His 125 base Special Attack can rip through a great many Pokemon, and with 105 Attack, he's no slouch in that category, either. His 98 base speed, inferior to the likes of Salamence and Latias, is offset by fairly decent 92/90/90 defenses, but he is by no means a tank. This set is the standard mixed set, and I use it as a wallbreaker. STAB Draco Meteor can rip through most Pokemon - in fact, it is only resisted by Steel-types, with which Hydreigon has quite a few ways of dealing. Fire Blast gives it excellent coverage off of that 125 base Special Attack, and Earthquake rounds out the unresisted Dragon/Fire/Ground combo, Air Balloon and Occa Berry users notwithstanding. For users of the aforementioned items, as well as quite a few others, there is Superpower. With the Choice Scarf, Hydreigon can serve as one of the best revenge killers around, with great power and coverage.

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    Breloom @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Spore
    - Swords Dance
    - Mach Punch
    - Bullet Seed
    Another recent addition is Breloom. In Gen V, Breloom was blessed with Technician and a STAB priority move, the same combo that vaulted Scizor to the top of Gen IV OU. Breloom's STAB Fighting, however, is far superior to Scizor's STAB Steel. Breloom also gains access to Spore, one of two 100% accurate sleep moves in the game - the other being Dark Void, Darkrai's signature move. Bullet Seed gained a big boost this gen, and with the Technician boost it will have a power between 75 and 187.5 - and that's before factoring in STAB! Breloom replaced Infernape, which was a bit overwhelmed in the current metagame, what with Scarf Tyranitar, Tornadus-T, and all.

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    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Disable
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    Gengar has been one of the most perennially successful Pokemon in history. It is one of two Pokemon to have been OU every generation, and in the four years since I started competitive battling, I do not recall a time when it was not a major threat. This set I find particularly fun to use. Shadow Ball provides excellent STAB, and Focus Blast is all it needs to go unresisted. Blissey (and Chansey) are more of a problem than ever, though, thanks to the change in Explosion's mechanics in Gen V. However, Gengar can do more than just roll in and Shadow Ball. It can set up a substitute, and from behind that substitute, it can Disable one of the opponent's moves. It requires an opening to set up, but once set up, it can be deadly. It can force switches, or render useless a Pokemon with one attack. Leftovers provides me with reliable recovery, which, quite frankly, I need. Life Orb recoil + Substitute damage would be too much.

    Gengar is the first Pokemon I have not seriously considered replacing at one point. While he can be walled fairly easily, he is also extremely dangerous, and can take down or weaken many Pokemon to the point where it should be easy for Dragonite to pull off a sweep. That said, I am open to suggestions, otherwise why would I bother with this?


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    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 36 Spd / 248 HP / 224 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin
    - Substitute
    Tentacruel is a wonderful supporter. With a wide movepool that includes Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, along with solid 100 base Speed, and excellent Special bulk, not to mention excellent defensive typing, Tentacruel can be a special wall, a Rapid Spinner, a Toxic Spikes user, or more. Here it functions as my Rapid Spinner as well as an excellent check for Rain teams (specifically those carrying Keldeo or Tornadus-T), which I have trouble with. Tentacruel cannot act as an outright wall on either side of the spectrum, but with the EV investment, can take hits reasonably well on both sides. With Rain Dish and Leftovers, I restore 18.75% of my health each turn in Rain, making Tenta an excellent option to use against Rain teams. Toxic helps prevent opposing Pokemon from setting up, while Rapid Spin can get rid of Stealth Rock, which is so important to setting up Dragonite. Scald provides STAB and decent neutral coverage, with a chance of a Burn - usually helpful, unless the opponent has Guts.

    Tentacruel replaced a Starmie in this slot, and so far it is doing better than its predecessor! Thanks to Jimbon of Smogon for suggesting this set.

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    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    Now we come to the star of the show. The original Dragon-type, Dragonite has the best bulk of all the non-uber Dragons except for Kyurem and perhaps Latias. In Gen IV, its 91/95/100 defenses have gained it a bit of a niche as the bulky dragon, but was generally inferior to Salamence or Flygon due to its underwhelming 80 Speed. With Multiscale, Dragonite's bulk is doubled; its crippling 4x Ice weakness is lessened, and it can easily take most Ice moves from full health, or when using Roost. It is very easy to get an opening to get up a first Dragon Dance, after which it will outspeed slower Scarf user such as Modest Politoed. Once one Dance is up, it can sweep, but there should be plenty of openings to get up a second Dragon Dance, after which it will outspeed even Scarf Landorus. Dragon Claw is my main STAB here. Although Outrage has more power, Dragonite does not want to get locked in, as every chance to heal with Roost or set up an extra Dragon Dance is welcomed. Besides, once two Dragon Dances are up, the difference between Outrage and Dragon Claw doesn't matter as much. Substitute allows me to block incoming status moves, while Leftovers can negate sand/hail damage.




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    Thank you for reading, and thank you in advance for rating! :toast:
  2. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    Hi there,

    Interesting team, Mix Hydreigon is a pretty cool mon, I'll need to try that out. As for your team, you look like you have problems with Rain Teams. Those carrying Keldeo or Tornadus-T in particular look like they have a field day with your team is Stealth Rock is up, and you can't Spin vs Starmie easily when Tornadus-T still outspeeds you. From here, either of these threats can cause a lot of problems for your team. Specs Keldeo essentially kills something every time it switches in, while Life Orb variants with Hidden Power [Ice] deal major damage to everything on your team. Tornadus-T is probably the most threatening thing to your team right now. Your only resist in Metagross cannot continually switch in again and again to Tornadus, while you can't reliably wear it down with Stealth Rock due to Regenerator. To help with these problems, I think a Substitute Toxic Tentacruel would be a much better fit over your current Starmie. Substitute Toxic Tentacruel clears up many of the problems your team has. First of all it allows you to check Keldeo, whose dual STAB you resist and coverage moves need a couple boosts to break through Tentacruel. While this still leaves you open to Sub Calm Mind Keldeo sets, Dragonite is still beating it one on one while Gengar outspeeds it and still risks a speed tie with Infernape. This Tentacruel set also helps out greatly against the bulky waters you mentioned that are problematic for you to face. Jellicent is a good example, who cannot Will-O-Wisp Tentacruel behind a Substitute and Tentacruel can Toxic it before it uses Taunt. This heavily limits Jellicent's survivability and makes it a lot easier for you to deal with. It also helps against Tornadus-T to an extent, as between Rain Dish and Leftovers, you can take one or two hits and get off a Toxic or Scald. The extra residual damage on Tornadus-T will help when trying to revenge it with Metagross paving the way for Dragonite or Hydreigon to sweep. Tentacruel also patches up your pretty huge Genesect weakness. Genesect can OHKO 4/6 of your team with the right coverage move, and your main switch-ins are still 2HKO'd if Genesect gets the Special Attack boost. Tentacruel acts as a great check to Genesect, given that Thunderbolt is not always commonly run. Against variants without Thunderbolt you get a free Substitute and Scald on the incoming switch in. By losing Starmie, you lose some offensive power, but I don't really think that's all that important when you have 4 other mons doing the same role. Every team needs something to take hits and Tentacruel fills that role nicely.

    I also noticed something on your Metagross's moveset. Given that it does seem to be your main switch in to Dragons and such, I really don't think you're making the most of it's moveset. While Metagross is a great check against a lot of Dragons, you can't do a whole lot back, and you lack the necessary coverage to remove it. I think you could make much better use of Ice Punch over Stealth Rock on Metagross. You don't want to be wasting a turn setting up Stealth Rock only to be taking a heavy hit that limits your switching. On an offensive team such as this, Metagross heavily slows your momentum down, and when it's gone you're open to Dragons and Tornadus-T. Ice Punch allows you to still beat Dragonite and Salamence as they switch in, while still having a reliable answer to Tornadus-T should you not want to risk Meteor Mash missing. I also think you should run Shuca Berry over Occa Berry on your Metagross. With Shuca Berry, Metagross turns into a much more reliable check against DD Salamence, Scarf Mence, Haxorus and DD Dragonite, all of which cause you a lot of trouble when Metagross is gone. It's also great for stuff like Landorus who you can remove with Ice Punch after sponging an Earthquake with Shuca Berry. This will open up for you to sweep a lot easier with Dragonite.

    I'm aware Stealth Rock is a necessity on every team, so I still think you should include it somewhere. Your best bet is to use Stealth Rock on Infernape over Stone Edge as this gives you a great offensive Stealth Rocker that forces switches and doesn't lose you momentum while more importantly giving you a reliable lead. With Stealth Rock + U-Turn, you have something to lead with rather than Hydreigon. Hydreigon is pretty slow in comparison with most leads such as Scarf Genesect and such, while Infernape lead means you're guaranteed Stealth Rock against most leads. The ones that can actually prevent Infernape setting up Stealth Rock are forced out by it's attacking options, while you can also U-Turn out for momentum's sake. Losing Stone Edge is not a huge loss, as the only thing you hit notably harder than your dual STAB is Volcarona, who isn't switching directly into Infernape anyway. While Stone Edge hits Salamence and Dragonite somewhat hard, Ice Punch + Shuca Berry on Metagross more than makes up for this allowing you to run Stealth Rock in place of Stone Edge.

    Good luck!

    Tentacruel (open)
    Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 36 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Rapid Spin
  3. polelover44

    polelover44

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    After testing, I will be adopting all those changes. Thanks for the rate!
  4. TGMD

    TGMD n_n
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey polelover44, nice team!

    You mentioned that you chose Lum Berry over Leftovers on Dragonite because status stopped your sweep, you also mentioned that without Leftovers, sand and hail negate your Multiscale, making Dragonite a much less potent sweeper. To remedy this situation I suggest running Substitute over Fire Punch and Leftovers over Lum Berry. Substitute blocks status and Leftovers means Dragonite can utilize Multiscale under any weather. Sub DD Dragonite is an amazing set, although you may be turned off by it's lack of coverage, Dragonite can actually PP stall most steel types late game and you can continue to get up Dragon Dance's until the time for a sweep has come. I also recommend this spread: 252 HP / 80 SpD / 176 Spe and a Jolly Nature over your current one on Dragonite. The extra speed is there to outspeed common status users and the faster the subs the easier it is to stall out your slower opponent snd the Special Defense and HP EVs let you stall out Specs Politoed's Ice Beams. You may think you're missing out with no Attack investment but the difference between this set and other Dragonite sets is that it's not uncommon to get to +6 if you play well.

    Thanks to Jimbon's excellent suggestions, your Infernape should now have Stealth Rock (you edited the OP to implement Jimbon's suggestions but you forgot Stealth Rock on Infernape, lol.) Stealth Rock means that more often than not you'll be leading with Infernape, Infernape will have alot of trouble setting up rocks against most offensive teams and to get up rocks you'll often have to take a hit, that damage as well as Life Orb recoil means Infernape won't be lasting very long. To help remedy this situation you may want to try Focus Sash over Life Orb on Infernape. Focus Sash allows Infernape to survive any hit and ensure Stealth Rocks are up from turn 1, it also gives you some suprise factor against sweepers that think they can outspeed and KO you, only to be greeted with a Close Combat / U-Turn / Overheat to the face. Admittedly, Infernape is prone to Sandstorm damage meaning it's not the most effective sash user in the world, but you often won't be taken down to sash against most sandstorm teams because Infernape forces Tyranitar to switch out, allowing Infernape to get up Stealth Rocks with 93.75% of it's HP to spare. Sandstorm was troublesome for Infernape in the first place due to the fact it takes 16.25% damage every turn that it attacks, meaning Infernape is guarenteed to die in 7 turns if it attacks in at least 6 of them, that's not even enough to use up all of Close Combat's PP. You'll miss the power Life Orb brings but the ability to be a more reliable Stealth Rock user and adding some suprise factor to your team is well worth it.

    Lastly, I recommend changing Infernape's EV spread to: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe and Hydreigon's EV spread to: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe. These are both essentiall just moving 4 EVs into Special Defense but it serves a good purpose, with these EVs you give Genesect an Attack boost rather than a Special Attack boost, Infernape dosen't like taking a boosted Thunderbolt and although Hydreigon dosen't want to boost Genesect's U-Turn, you don't want to boost it's Ice Beam either, you could switch into Tentacruel predicting the Ice Beam but they could predict that and hit you with a boosted Thunderbolt, overall it's much safer to give Genesect an Attack boost then it is to give it a Special Attack boost, especially if they're the Rock Polish set, which can easily sweep with a Special Attack boost and a bit of prior damage on a few of your pokemon.

    Anyway, I hope this rate helped and GL with the team :)
  5. polelover44

    polelover44

    Joined:
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    Thanks for the rate! I've gotten suggestions from another site as well, so I'll be testing those and yours at the same time and see what works out.

    I'll test everything and see what works out.
  6. polelover44

    polelover44

    Joined:
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    I made some big changes.

    Bumpity-bump.

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