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I'm Not Going Down Without a Fight

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Adamant Zoroark, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

    Aug 11, 2011
    It's been clear to me for a while now that there's reduced activity in DPP OU and the past gen teams subforum for a while now. This is a team that I started working on last night, when I decided "You know, my other teams are either boring or not good.". So, I worked on a brand new DPP OU team, an offensively oriented one with a focus on Lucario. In the end, I decided that this would be my last DPP OU RMT before going on an indefinite hiatus from DPP OU teambuilding. I'll still play DPP OU, but I want to put a primary focus on building teams for ADV OU, as I have always struggled in that tier. Anyway, I put a lot of thought into this team, and when I took it for a spin, I was very pleased with the results.

    team building process (open)

    As I said, I wanted to focus the team on Lucario. Somehow, on most of my successful DPP OU teams, Lucario manages to make its way onto the team, and with good reason. It is the best late-game sweeper in all of DPP OU, bar none.


    Gengar and Rotom-A both make complete stops to a Lucario sweep, so the solution to this is simple: Pack Scarf Tyranitar. Tyranitar can trap both Pokemon easily, making a Lucario sweep much easier.


    Okay, so I'd like to wear down things like Gliscor and Hippowdon to make Lucario's life much easier, right? Well, you know, I'm not just gonna use a Gyarados or something like that, I'm not that kind of guy. People are prepared for Gyarados. I use a lure Flygon. If Gliscor thinks it can stay in and take Outrage all day, think again, I'll be hitting it with a Draco Meteor. Hippowdon doesn't like taking that either, and if Skarmory thinks it can come in for free on Earthquake, it can't because it's getting nuked by a Fire Blast.


    CroCune is shit, don't use it. Anyway, I just decided to use an offensive Calm Mind Suicune to further help against Gliscor and Hippowdon, while also giving me a reliable way of beating Gyarados. HP Electric to the face, fucker! Besides, I've taken down quite a few Pokemon early game with Suicune, so it's been working out quite well.


    Rotom-H is the cooler-looking one. Come on, it's a fucking oven. Anyway, this is another scarfer because, although ScarfTar is already beating most Lucario and Suicune is beating Gyarados, I needed some kind of way of getting around Bullet Punch Lucario, and I was slowly realizing that my only way of beating Dragonite was to not let it set up, so I decided to pack a Scarf Rotom with Will-O-Wisp to help against that problem. Will-O-Wisp also helps when people think they can just bring in whatever Pursuit user.


    Yeah, I think of good leads last. Anyway, the only leads I've really successfully used in DPP OU are: Azelf, Celebi, Machamp, and Heatran. I know how deadly Machamp is, so I decided to run a Colbur Berry Azelf lead. It's quite simple: Take a Payback thanks to Colbur Berry, get up rocks against Machamp, go boom.

    Now, time to get into more detail:


    Azelf @ Colbur Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 8 HP / 140 Atk / 144 SDef / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - U-turn
    - Explosion

    You know, I don't really see Focus Sash Azelf leads anymore. Guess that shows how leads are so focused on beating Machamp nowadays (like how every single Smeargle lead I see has Counter and I don't see anyone using lead Mamoswine anymore). Anyway, this gets up guaranteed rocks against Machamp and easily survives a Payback thanks to the Colbur Berry, and next turn, just go boom on Machamp. That's one annoying thing out of the way. If I feel like predicting my opponent to set up their rocks, I'll go for Taunt, though any player worth his or her salt will probably see this coming so I don't use it much. U-turn is probably my favorite move to use. For some odd reason I've actually been seeing a few lead Gengar, so I can U-turn to break the Focus Sash on leads that may be seen using it, including the aforementioned Gengar, and then go to something that can beat it (Tyranitar in Gengar's case). Even if I'm not against a Focus Sash Azelf, I still find U-turn handy because since my EV spread is slower than maximum speed Azelf, I can't win the Taunt speed tie, so I can just U-turn out to Tyranitar to take care of it. When Azelf's job is done, I can just go boom and do massive damage to anything in the process unless it just happens to be a Ghost-type.


    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Earthquake

    Ah, ScarfTar. After playing BW2 OU so much, where Scarfers are always just all "SPEEEEED!!!! MORE OF IT!", if felt good to come back here. In DPP OU, there are two Speed-boosting sweepers you should be concerned about: Gyarados and Dragonite. Of those, Gyarados is the most notable (I have ways to take care of it) and Dragon Dance Dragonite is uncommon from my experience (Raseri is one of only two people to ever use it against me, all other Dragonite I've seen are mixed). Anyway, as opposed to being a revenge killer, Tyranitar is here to rid the opposing team of Gengar, first and foremost. I can use it to revenge kill Rotom-A, though, which is helped thanks to the Special Defense boost from Sandstorm. Crunch is just there for non-Pursuit STAB, and just the threat of Crunch gives me a reason to use Pursuit. Stone Edge lets me cover Flying-types such as annoying-as-fuck-Togekiss (I fucking hate Togekiss, if you use a Paraflinch Togekiss against me I will kill you in your sleep) and Earthquake lets me revenge kill non-Bullet Punch Lucario (surprisingly enough, most Lucario I run into do not use it)


    Flygon (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Roost

    Let me start off with something: I refuse to use a Scarfed Flygon. I just refuse to. Choice Scarf is Flygon's worst set, period. It can't revenge kill Dragonite (ExtremeSpeed) while it's easy to beat up a Flygon locked into Outrage with Pokemon such as Weavile, Mamoswine, and Scizor. Fun fact: I had more success with Scarf Flygon in BW OU than I did in DPP OU. That's just depressing, really. Lure Flygon is the only Flygon set I've managed to make work in DPP OU, and as such is the only Flygon set I will ever consider using. Pokemon such as Bronzong may come in thinking they can switch in on Outrage or Earthquake for free, but instead find themselves getting hit by a Fire Blast. Hippowdon, who does pretty well against Scarf Flygon, takes a heavy hit from Draco Meteor - Oh hey, weakening Hippowdon helps Lucario sweep! I use Earthquake to let me hit those who are weak to it, while also helping against Blissey. Roost lets me heal damage from Life Orb.


    Lucario (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Ah, Swords Dance Lucario. I use it in DPP OU almost religiously. Well, I can't blame myself there, it is the best late game sweeper available. Once Gengar and Rotom-A are gone, while Pokemon such as Gyarados and Gliscor are taken care of, I basically just need to set up one Swords Dance and it's game over. Let me put this into perspective: A +2 Close Combat OHKOes 0/4 Dragonite after SR! Damn, brutal shit there. Wait, what's that? Bulky Rotom-A? Not anymore, Crunch. Oh, I'm sorry? Jolteon is faster than Lucario and OHKOes with Thunderbolt? No it doesn't, I have ExtremeSpeed. That should pretty much explain exactly how deadly Lucario really is.


    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    All I can say about Suicune is, it is possibly the best offensive way of taking care of Gyarados. I mean yeah, having no recovery unlike Vaporeon does suck, but this is an offensive team, Vaporeon has no place on this team. Basically, I just need to switch in Suicune as Gyarados sets up, while I just nail it with a HP Electric (which for some reason works every time, it's like people expect that shitty-ass CroCune set or something (sorry Cromat, I just really don't like that set)). Other than just HP Electric, I use Surf for STAB because I don't like the low accuracy and PP of Hydro Pump, while Ice Beam gets a harder hit on Flygon and gives Suicune an actual option to hit Dragonite.


    Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Trick

    DeviantART didn't really have any good Rotom-H pictures of an appropriate size, so I decided "Ok fuck it, I'm just gonna use this Yugioh card picture because fuck everything else". Anyway, ScarfTar is good and all, but it isn't taking care of everything. Rotom-H gives me a backup check to Gyarados, while also being able to kill Gengar if Tyranitar just happens to go down. I'm not too keen on using Overheat, so I use Will-O-Wisp because that lets me cripple Dragon Dance Dragonite, who is quite the threat if it shows up. Will-O-Wisp also helps me against Pursuit users like Tyranitar and Scizor who think they can just come in with no worries. At the end of the day, when Rotom is done being Rotom, I can use Trick to cripple something that won't really want a Choice Scarf, like a Blissey or something. Lucario setting up on Blissey Choice-locked into Toxic! Can't say that every day!


    Well, that's the team. Hope you enjoyed my first RMT here in about 5 months, and any comments are appreciated.
  2. Smiles


    Oct 18, 2010
    Nice team, similar to the way I build teams and my playing style. In fact, I have a team very similar to this.

    I see Weavile potentially causing problems, but I guess it's no big deal with sandstorm, SR, and Extremespeed.

    I think you mentioned it, but DD Dragonite is also a big threat once it has a DD. Although it's not really common and it's really not a threat if it can't get a DD, Tyranitar locked into Pursuit or Earthquake could mean trouble. Rotom-H can severely weaken Dragonite after SR, and can burn it. However, 75% accuracy is not too reliable for WoW. And if your Rotom-H is dead (lol ghost) or without a Choice Scarf, your only option left is Lucario's Extremespeed, which will not KO unless Dragonite has around 50%. Dragonite can be a huge threat, but like Weavile, SR + sandstorm, Extremespeed, and in this case LO can bring it down quickly.
    If you want to deal with Dragonite reliably, you could get a bulkier steel type or give Rotom-H Hidden-Power Ice.

    Rain Dance Mixed Kingdra could be a huge problem if Tyranitar is dead and can't change the weather. And even if Tyranitar is alive, Kingdra still deal massive damage to Tyranitar, possibly a KO with prior damage, while Tyranitar's stupid Stone Edge could miss. Again, an uncommon threat. Empoleon lol if you wanna resist its attacks.

    I see Metagross leads being potentially troublesome, since Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch KOs Azelf, while none of your Pokemon can really take Meteor Mash multiple times, with Rotom-H and Suicune being unable to KO while Metagross can explode at Suicune.

    LO Starmie also poses a threat to your team, as no Pokemon on your team can really take a Hydro Pump besides Suicune. Tyranitar is KOed with some prior damage or multiple SR switch-ins, and Rotom-H is KOed after SR and sandstorm, possibly even without SR. Lucario is OHKOed and Azelf should be dead, but it is almost always OHKOed after SR and sandstorm anyway, usually just SR is enough.
    Your most reliable switch-in, Suicune, is always KOed by a combination of SR + Hydro Pump (switching in) and then Thunderbolt + sandstorm (sandstorm usually not necessary) while Suicune cannot OHKO in return, if not already KOed by Starmie.
    Your choices of revenge killing are a lot broader, but unless Hydro Pump misses, Starmie can do a lot of damage. It can switch into Rotom-H using Will-O-Wisp, Flygon using Fire Blast/Roost, or when one of their Pokemon dies. Sure Starmie isn't going to have a great time switching in, but it can be disastrous if it does get in.

    Since you've tested your team, I guess you could say something about how dangerous Starmie really is, whether it is a problem. I'm missing sleep and idk why I'm here.
  3. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

    Aug 11, 2011
    Thanks for the rate!

    While I was on the ladder on PO, I saw Kingdra only once and it was a SubDD Kingdra, which I dealt with by repeatedly using Thunderbolt until it was weakened enough then as Rotom died, I brought in Lucario to revenge it with ExtremeSpeed (which of course meant revealing I had a Lucario early in the battle, but it was no big deal). On paper, I could probably handle the standard ChestoRest Kingdra by Tricking my Rotom's Choice Scarf, though that's ruined if I've already used Trick (luckily I don't use Trick with Rotom unless it's absolutely necessary).

    I didn't really see any Metagross leads, so I'm thinking Metagross took a massive hit in lead usage thanks to lead Heatran now commonly using LO/Specs instead of Shuca Berry. I saw Metagross, but I could take care of it with a combination of Suicune and Rotom-H.

    Starmie and Weavile I have both seen, and while I did have to think harder than I usually do against most Pokemon, I could beat them. Rotom-H could spinblock and revenge Starmie while Tyranitar could trap it, and Weavile wasn't doing too well against Suicune unless it was SD (not common, I've done at least 30 DPP battles in a time frame of maybe 9 months and never saw it even once), and I could always weaken it to the point I could just take care of it with Lucario's ExtremeSpeed. The DD Dragonite weakness I've already talked about in the OP, but I'm open to suggestions that could help it out.
  4. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

    Mar 13, 2011
    It's been a while since i gen 4'd but here goes xd

    First off, I almost always use Hydro on my offensive Cunes, the offensive power for me is just really nice to have. But whatever haha.

    Second, you really don't have a huge amount of things capable of handling Breloom too well. It can switch in on anything Ttar has and WoW/Tbolt from Rotom. One option I can give you is running Aerial Ace over EQ on Ttar to try to get the jump on Loom.

    I could also see Scizor at least giving you trouble, since you aren't running a bulky Rotom-A it wears you down pretty quickly with U-turn, and you don't have any other resists. For this reason, i'd suggest running a bulkier Rotom A instead of Scarfing it, which I know leaves a lot on Ttar's back, but having a Scizor counters is pretty damn important.

    I honestly haven't played Gen 4 in ages and was going to remove that from my sig xD, but i mean that's what I got, hope I helped haha
  5. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

    Aug 11, 2011
    Out of all the Pokemon I've faced on PO, Breloom is definitely the one I've had the most trouble with, and for this reason I don't send out Tyranitar or Rotom-H unless I absolutely have to. Breloom's definitely not unbeatable though, because if I recall correctly, Lucario, Suicune, and Flygon all OHKO it. Usually I've been able to beat Scizor with Lucario, and sometimes with Flygon if my prediction is spot-on.

    Either way, thanks for the rate!

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