Destiny Bond has 5 pp. That's 5 mons max that you can kill before having to go back to Poke Center or using a rare Ether/Elixir etc. And there's no guarantee that the A.I. will attack your half-dead Gengar. If they use a set-up move instead, you've just wasted another PP. Really, I'll rather use my Revives on a Gyarados/Staraptor to intimate them so I can use them as set-up bait to sweep the remaining team.1. Gastly be moved to mid A tier, on account of its ability to deal with team problems through a combination of Destiny Bond and Revive.
The Eveelutions almost exclusively (with the exception of Espeon and Psybeam) learn absolutely shit STAB moves until ridiculously high levels. Vaporeon is your best bet for Water Absorb being awesome and getting Surf decently early, but Jolteon's Shock Wave ain't all that great and that TM can be used better by others.Eevee deserves at least a B tier, for while some of the possible evolutions (Flareon, Leafeon, Glaceon, and possibly Umbreon) aren't that useful Vaporeon, Jolteon, and Espeon are all great pokemon to have in your arsenal. Espeon can pull the same CM and sweep trick everyone's been talking about and Jolteon and Vaporeons STAB moves are essential to in-game battling.
And this is why I said it is a problem solver. It isn't meant to go and DB every Bidoof that waddles by, it functions as an omnicounter for team weaknesses. More often then not, and mind you, I've tested it, the AI trys to go full-on offensive, making it very rare that something won't kill your half-dead Gengar. And you forget that, although my main arguing point was DB, Gengar still has an absurb SpAtk and speed, plus Levitate, which is an amazing ability. Plenty of options to sweep with, as well as its suicide mode to take out problem mons more than justifies my tiering suggestion.Destiny Bond has 5 pp. That's 5 mons max that you can kill before having to go back to Poke Center or using a rare Ether/Elixir etc. And there's no guarantee that the A.I. will attack your half-dead Gengar. If they use a set-up move instead, you've just wasted another PP. Really, I'll rather use my Revives on a Gyarados/Staraptor to intimate them so I can use them as set-up bait to sweep the remaining team.
Agreed, just plain Kadabra is awesome, Alakazam is bordering on overkill. You'd be crazy to level up Abra to sixteen though, you can catch a level 20 Kadabra right when you need him, just before Veilstone's Gym.Even kadabra can do the trick.
This is a rehash of Torterra vs. Infernape, frankly higher Sp.Atk and blazing speed make Alakazam the better offensive option by far. Both of their physical defenses suck anyway, so there's really no advantage with Gardevoir's flimsy HP. Also, Grass Knot is generally superior to Thunderbolt, as it lets you hit both water and ground types, and STAB pyschic attacks easily takes care of most flying types you'll encounter outside of like, Mantine and Gyarados.But Gardevoir gets much better defenses, along with Thunderbolt? I speed-ran through Plat with just Gardevoir and Infernape (and later, magnezone)
We're not looking at pure end-game material here. We're looking at mons that are useful throughout the game. That is why mons like Mamoswine (even thou it's incredibily useful ingame) are discussed to be put at a low tier, because you get them so late.Plenty of options to sweep with, as well as its suicide mode to take out problem mons more than justifies my tiering suggestion.
All valid points. I'd willing to accept B tier, that seems fair. Though, to be fair as well, having to carry around Magikarp to produce Gyarados is relatively the same thing, trading Intimidate and Dragon Rage early game for Night Shade, Levitate and status, and physical superiority late game for special advantage and DB on Gengar. I still think it could be low A tier, though.We're not looking at pure end-game material here. We're looking at mons that are useful throughout the game. That is why mons like Mamoswine (even thou it's incredibily useful ingame) are discussed to be put at a low tier, because you get them so late.
The fact that you can only catch Gastly at a low level at Old Chateau means that you have to raise a mediocre mon without any good offensive options. (He learns his first Special attack at Lv. 33 - Shadow Ball) before then, you're stuck with things like Sucker Punch and Shadow Punch. You also can't get any decent TM's until fairly late in the game. Not to mention that Gastly evolves at Lv. 25, which is a relatively high level to evolve at.
Ghost/Poison are also a terrible attack combination ingame.
Now compare that to something like Abra. You can catch it at a high level as Kadabra, and it learns tons of useful moves (especially early game) such as Psybeam, Grass Knot, Shock Wave, Charge Beam... Abra can sweep teams with Calm Mind. Not to mention that Kadabra is useful even without having to evolve. While with Haunter, the difference between the two are pretty big.
In other words, Gastly should get tier B at most.
Since Grass Knot is brought up... not that Kadabra/Alakazam won't rape anything in its path ANYWAY, but I don't think it's a good idea to use once-gotten, competitively-useful TMs like Grass Knot and Charge Beam on an in-game run Pokemon; also, Calm Mind isn't available until post-elite 4, unless you trade for it.Now compare that to something like Abra. You can catch it at a high level as Kadabra, and it learns tons of useful moves (especially early game) such as Psybeam, Grass Knot, Shock Wave, Charge Beam... Abra can sweep teams with Calm Mind.
-Being caught early is strictly an advantage, but even if it weren't, Starly and Staravia are everywhere, so you can catch it pretty much any time you want. Scyther has no advantage there.Catchable at a minimum of level 19, it has a game crushing flying/fighting combination by level 21 without TMs:
Wing attack - this is monstrous with technician and 35 PP
Rock smash - 50% defense drop and perfectly usable at 60 base
That leaves 2 free slots for further utility; take your pick from cut, strength, false swipe and defog. Swords dance is another bonus later.
Advantages over Starly line
* Starly is caught early, and therefore competes with your starter for experience
* Intimidate is an annoying time wasting ability in game
* Scyther offers better utility, and can continue to be useful after game completion
* Brave bird recoil
* It is easier to check for usable IVs on a level 19+ Pokemon
* You can have a synchronizer by the time you reach route 210
The only disadvantage is that the Starly line actually levels up faster until level 47.
It depends on preference. You could have e.g. two level 12 Pokemon at an arbitrary stage, or say a level 15 Monferno. If the argument is that you can just catch Staravia at a similar level, then fine.-Being caught early is strictly an advantage, but even if it weren't, Starly and Staravia are everywhere, so you can catch it pretty much any time you want. Scyther has no advantage there.
How is it useful when you just murder everything in one-two hits? Taking in game damage will never matter, unless you are under leveled. Therefore, intimidate is a waste.-Intimidate may waste time, but it's massively useful, especially since ingame trainers don't switch out.
Fly has no value in battle, because it can 1) miss and 2) takes 2 turns - another time waster. The argument for HM whoring is not sound either, because Scyther can reasonably run 3 HMs, and there are plenty of Pokemon with access to fly + other HMs (e.g. Giratina).-Defog is worthless on both, and Starly can Fly (which, BTW, is also a pretty good attack this gen). False Swipe is admittedly a point for Scyther, but we'll come back to movepool later. Cut and Rock Smash are nice, but I can always just bag a bidoof for that. They're not exactly hard to come by.
There is no difference between BB and Scyther's WA. They will both OHKO everything. Therefore, the recoil is time wasting in two ways; directly, and also forcing you to heal more often.-Brave Bird's 120 power makes this an advantage.
I am not suggesting that you go for great IVs, but certainly something reasonably good (16+ attack and speed) is fine to aim for.-Usable IVs? This is in-game. 0IVs across the board would be usable. A level 5 Starly can still be checked for high vs. low IVs, which is generally more than sufficient.
Or you could... trade? Or go on an abra catching spree on the rainy route? It is all optional anyway.-You'd still have to catch a Ralts with the proper nature to use it as a synchronizer, and they're not exactly common and can teleport away. Considering you have 24% chance of getting a +attack or +speed nature (28% if you accept Brave), and a 68% chance of getting a non -speed or -attack nature, it's probably better to just go for it. Of course, Starly's much higher catch rate gives it an edge here.
The extra lines from CC's side effect is another time waster. Scyther does enough with its own fighting options, with or without swords dance - consider that CC and rock smash are only used when super effective. Electric pokemon have low defense, or you could just use something else.And you think faster level ups is the only advantage starly has on Scyther? What about Close Combat, which Scyther can only dream it got? Or STAB Return--much better than STAB X-Scissor.
No. With Tech, Scyther only needs wing attack. Late game, it also has swords dance access. It sets up and sweeps. They are both S, but Scyther is the most S tier Pokemon in this generation.Scyther is certainly A material, perhaps even S. But the Starly line still has quite a few advantages over it, especially late game when Scyther's Tech boost stops being such an advantage.
A level 44 Gyarados can easily sweep the elite four almost single-handedly, with support only for Mr Mime. Can the others do the same at those levels?Consider; for the same experience it takes to level Gyarados to 44 (dragon dance), you could have a level 47 Staraptor, a level 48 Scyther or a level 51 Togekiss.