Infernape [4N] - Choice Specs

[RaikouLover]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/infernape

So since this is a controversial change.. I decided to post a peer edit. This is simply an improvement on the current Choice Specs set.

name: Choice Specs
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Vacuum Wave
move 4: Focus Blast / Close Combat
nature: Naive
item: Choice Specs
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Infernape has the movepool to successfully pull of a Choice Specs set. Fire Blast is the main attack, and it will put a good sized dent in anything without Fire-type resistance and decent Special Defense. Overheat and Flamethrower are also options, but you will not gain an OHKO on any Pokemon worth mentioning with Overheat, and with Flamethrower you will miss out on 2HKOing offensive Gyarados and Salamence while Stealth Rock is in play. In fact, Fire Blast's ability to 2HKO Salamence and Flygon and OHKO Gliscor eliminate the need for Hidden Power Ice. Grass Knot will 2HKO the bulky Water-types which will inevitably switch into Infernape, though Stealth Rock will need to be up to ensure a 2HKO on Gyarados.</p>

<p>Vacuum Wave is an extremely useful move in the third slot for revenge killing troublesome sweepers such as Agility Empoleon, Swords Dance Lucario and Dragon Dance Tyranitar. The final move is mainly for eliminating Tyranitar and Blissey. Both Focus Blast and Close Combat will OHKO Tyranitar and 2HKO Blissey, however Close Combat has superior accuracy and Focus Blast has a higher damage output on anything else you might face.</p>

<p>Much like Choice Band Infernape, Choice Specs Infernape will appreciate any turns that you create to allow it to come in, such as Hippowdon's Slack Off. Offensively, Choice Specs Infernape is pretty much a stand alone sweeper and will open holes for other Pokemon to sweep. Therefore, pairing this with Gyarados, Heatran, or any other Sweeper that will appreciate a weakened or eliminated bulky Water-type could be beneficial to your team.</p>

--------------------------------------------------------------

For the spirit of those of you doubting my 3 Fighting Attack Infernape, here are the obligatory damage calculations:


Choice Specs Fire Blast vs. Max HP Gliscor: 90.1-100%
Choice Specs Fire Blast vs. Min / Min Naive Salamence: 50.8-59.8%
Choice Specs Fire Blast vs. Max HP / Min Salamence: 38.3-45.2%
Choice Specs Fire Blast vs. Min / Min Dragonite: 39.0-45.3%
Choice Specs Fire Blast vs. 80 HP / Min Flygon: 47.0-55.5%

Choice Specs Focus Blast vs. Max HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 56.5-66.8%
Choice Specs Grass Knot vs. Max HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 37.9-44.83%

Choice Specs Focus Blast vs. Max HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 55.2-65.4%
Choice Specs Grass Knot vs. Max HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 76.7-87.1%

Choice Specs Focus Blast vs. Max HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 67.8-80.2%
Choice Specs Grass Knot vs. Max HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 100%

Choice Specs Focus Blast vs. Min / Min Gyarados: 38.1-44.7%
Choice Specs Grass Knot vs. Min / Min Gyarados: 50.8-59.8%


They should speak for themselves, so you be the judge.

 

[Fuzznip]

<p>(remove space) Infernape has the movepool to successfully pull off a Choice Specs set (it doesn't really have the movepool, you're using three Fighting-type attacks). Fire Blast is the main attack, and it will put a good sized dent in anything without Fire-type resistance and decent Special Defense. Overheat and Flamethrower are also options, but you will not gain an OHKO on any Pokemon worth mentioning with Overheat, and with Flamethrower you will miss out on 2HKOing offensive Gyarados and Salamence while Stealth Rock is in play. In fact, Fire Blast's ability to 2HKO Salamence and Flygon and OHKO Gliscor eliminate the need for Hidden Power Ice.</p>

<p>(remove space) The second slot is Infernape's answer to the inevitable Water Pokemon that will switch in. However, both Focus Blast and Grass Knot have their risks; Focus Blast has poor accuracy and Grass Knot allows dangerous sweepers such as Salamence, Lucario, and Scizor the ability to switch in and start to set up, as well as having variable base power depending on the target. Focus Blast's greatest advantage over Grass Knot is that it will do a minimum of 56% to Vaporeon, which is a clean 2HKO despite Vaporeon's ability to Protect for Leftovers recovery. Because of Vaporeon's weight, Grass Knot will never accomplish the same feat. Focus Blast will also notch 2HKOs on Suicune, Swampert, and Gyarados. However, both will fail to do significant damage to Tentacruel.</p>

<p>(remove space) Vacuum Wave is an extremely useful move in the third slot for revenge killing troublesome sweepers such as Agility Empoleon, Swords Dance Lucario and Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Close Combat rounds out the set by giving Infernape a reliable way to deal with Tyranitar and keep Blissey from having any bright ideas about switching in. It is important to note that while three Fighting attacks may seem redundant, they all serve different purposes, and Infernape's dual STABs are capable of dealing with the majority of the pokemon in OU.</p>

<p>(remove space) Much like Choice Band Infernape, Choice Specs Infernape will appreciate any turns that you create to allow it to come in, such as Hippowdon's Slack Off or Lucario's Swords Dance. Offensively, Choice Specs Infernape is pretty much a stand alone sweeper and will open wholes for other Pokemon to sweep. Therefore, pairing this with Gyarados, Heatran, or any other Sweeper that will appreciate a weakened or eliminated bulky Water-type could be beneficial to your team.</p>

Few changes here and there. The set looks quite interesting, considering you're running three moves of the same type, which seems kinda gimmicky to me.

 

[Olie]

Choice Specs Infernape is pretty much a stand alone sweeper and will open wholes for other Pokemon to sweep.

holes>wholes

 

[RaikouLover]

Edited in changes.

Few changes here and there. The set looks quite interesting, considering you're running three moves of the same type, which seems kinda gimmicky to me.

Well, it looks gimmicky but think about this. This set has THREE 120 Base Power STAB moves. There are 5 pokemon in OU that resist Fire + Fighting; Gyarados, Salamence, Dragonite, Latias, Tentacruel. The latter 2 you can't hit with a Choice Specs set regardless of what move you use. So that leaves Gyarados, Salamence, and Dragonite. With Stealth Rock, both Focus Blast and Fire Blast will 2HKO all three (offensive Dragonite that is). So in theory, on a Choice set the only moves you really should be using are the first two. With that being said, being able to outspeed and 2HKO 3/5 of your common switch ins regardless of what move you pick means there is no need to use a different move. So using Hidden Power Ice or some other attack will leave you more vulnerable to the next pokemon, or if you mispredict. Jumpman explained this thoroughly when he outlined Specsmence.

 

[Bologo]

<p> Infernape has the movepool to successfully pull of a Choice Specs set. Fire Blast is the main attack, and it will put a good sized dent in anything without Fire-type resistance and decent Special Defense. Overheat and Flamethrower are also options, but you will not gain any noteworthy OHKOs with Overheat; with Flamethrower you will miss out on 2HKOing offensive Gyarados and Salamence while Stealth Rock is in play. In fact, Fire Blast's ability to 2HKO Salamence and Flygon while OHKOing Gliscor eliminates the need for Hidden Power Ice.</p>

<p> The second slot is Infernape's answer to the inevitable Water Pokemon that will switch in. However, both Focus Blast and Grass Knot have their risks: Focus Blast has poor accuracy and Grass Knot allows dangerous sweepers such as Salamence, Lucario, and Scizor (removed 'the ability') to set up, as well as having variable base power depending on the target. Focus Blast's greatest advantage over Grass Knot is that it will do a minimum of 56% to Vaporeon, which is a clean 2HKO despite Vaporeon's ability to Protect for Leftovers recovery. Because of Vaporeon's weight, Grass Knot will never accomplish the same feat. Focus Blast will also notch 2HKOs on Suicune, Swampert, and Gyarados (it can 2HKO Blissey too). However, both will fail to do significant damage to Tentacruel.</p>

<p> Vacuum Wave is an extremely useful move in the third slot for revenge killing troublesome sweepers such as Agility Empoleon, Swords Dance Lucario, and Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Close Combat rounds out the set by giving Infernape a reliable way to deal with Tyranitar and keep Blissey from having any bright ideas about switching in (is this really needed when Focus Blast is there?). It is important to note that while three Fighting attacks may seem redundant, they all serve different purposes, and Infernape's dual STABs are capable of dealing with the majority of the pokemon in OU.</p>

<p> Much like Choice Band Infernape, Choice Specs Infernape will appreciate any turns that you create to allow it to come in, such as Hippowdon's Slack Off. Offensively, Choice Specs Infernape is pretty much a stand alone sweeper and will open holes for other Pokemon to sweep. Therefore, pairing this with Gyarados, Heatran, or any other Sweeper that will appreciate a weakened or eliminated Bulky Water could be beneficial to your team.</p>

I didn't really need to fix much, I just fixed some grammar and reworded some of the sentences. Good job from a grammar point of view. However, I would like to know if Close Combat is really needed. Focus Blast is pretty much a guaranteed 2HKO on Blissey when SR is up, and so is Close Combat. Personally, I would rather take my chances with the 70% accuracy of Focus Blast so that I could have another attack. Plus, since Close Combat can't even OHKO Blissey, it can just switch out and come in again sometime and Softboiled/Wish, meaning that Close Combat will be pretty shitty for the rest of the match. I'd recommend something like HP Electric in Close Combat's spot so you don't need to choose between Grass Knot/Focus Blast. Plus, it can still take off a hefty chunk from Tentacruel.

 

[RaikouLover]

yeah after calcs Focus Blast does always 2HKO Blissey... unfortunately that always is now 49% because of bad accuracy. As for other moves... Hidden Power Electric unfortunately is still a 3HKO on Tentacruel even with Stealth Rock (maxes at 41.8%), and being locked into unSTABed Hidden Power is what we're trying to avoid to begin with. U-turn could have merits in the last slot for scouting purposes and to take up to 47% of Latias' HP so you can bring in something to pursuit her if need be. Possibly I can mention that?

 

[Bologo]

Yeah, I was thinking about U-Turn before, but I didn't know if you'd still have trouble with Bulky Waters after that. U-turn is pretty good in that last slot though, since it also helps fake the opponent into thinking it's a ScarfApe, but then you hit them with a massively powered special attack next time.

 

[TAY]

Why the hell would anyone run this? The only thing your calcs show is that Focus Blast is better than Grass Knot against Vaporeon. That's it. This is a pretty simple set - Fire Blast is your main attack, Close Combat hits Steels, Grass Knot hits waters. I could see maybe slashing in Vacuum Wave or Focus Blast on the current analysis instead of HP Ice, but three Fighting attacks is absurd. If you really want to beat Vaporeon, just use HP Electric and take some extra damage against Tentacruel and Gyarados.

If you want to add in Focus Blast to beat Vaporeon that is a team choice; it is not something that should be used the majority of the time, and does not belong on-site. Also lol it beats it less than half the time lol...there is no reason to use this set as it is.

EDIT: You can't even say "well Focus Blast lets it sweep more easily" since the chance of it hitting twice in a row is less than 50%. You aren't sweeping shit with this; this is a hit and run wallbreaker just like every other choice band/specs user.

EDIT2: I admit the specs set needs some touching up (HP Ice should not be a primary option), but this is not the way to do it.

The set should probably be changed to this (maybe with hp elec over vac wave):

name: Choice Specs
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Vacuum Wave / Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Close Combat
nature: Naive
item: Choice Specs
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

(I'm happy to write it up but since this is your thread you should really have the option to).

 

[RaikouLover]

Ya know TAY, you should test a set before using it.. and I really just spent the last 2 hours testing it. It DOES do what it is supposed to do, regardless of the three fighting attacks. What you have up there is the same thing as I have, except Focus Blast is slashed with Grass Knot because they both ARE viable. Focus Blast has shit accuracy. Grass Knot has shit awful type coverage and reliability. Yet they both 2HKO all the "bulky Waters." Hidden Power __________ should never be used on Choice sets because it sucks, period point blank. You want to use Hidden Power Electric? It doesn't 2HKO Vaporeon thanks to Protect, it doesn't 2HKO Tentacruel. The only thing it gets is a 41% 2HKO on Max / Min Suicune with Stealth Rock (which is still less than FB)... so the whole point is.. would you rather be locked into a STAB 120 Base Power move, albeit 70% accuracy when it can 2HKO your "counters", or be locked in a 70 base power move, or a varying base power move that the enemy can switch something else in to set up? What I was trying to portray is that the set should be Fire Move / Water Kill Move / Vacuum Wave / Close Combat. Focus Blast and Grass Knot are the water killing moves. I know three Fighting attacks looks bad, but numbers don't lie....

EDIT: If anything, HP Electric could probably be slashed with Close Combat, because Focus Blast does 2HKO Blissey...

 

[darkie]

I don't think two hours testing for a set like this is enough.

 

[TAY]

Dude I wrote the current Infernape analysis; I have tested all the sets and the previous specs one worked fine (though I admit HP Ice was pretty useless).

Saying Focus Blast 2HKOs the bulky waters is misleading since it doesn't even 2HKO them half of the time. I agree that Hidden Power is a bad option here, but Infernape doesn't have much else (which is why I suggested that Vacuum Wave or Focus Blast should be slashed with HP Elec).

And I suppose you're right that I should have run calcs with HP Elec (and after seeing those I agree it should not be used), but that wasn't really the point of my previous post. Focus Blast has no business on this set over Grass Knot. If you want to use it to beat Vaporeon then that's cool, but GK is necessary for reliable 1 and 2HKOs on Gyarados (a common switch-in who shits on a 3 fighting type set), Suicune, Swampert, Rhyperior, and Starmie. Three of those five are more common than Vaporeon anyway, including big #3 Gyarados who beats this set without GK.

As I said previously, Focus Blast is usable to get through Vaporeon (with 49% consistency lol), but it sure as hell should not be the main option over Grass Knot. It is a tech option that might be good for a specific team, but in general is a poor choice. So how does:

name: Choice Specs
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Vacuum Wave / Focus Blast
move 4: Close Combat
nature: Naive
item: Choice Specs
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

sound?

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Yeah I'm going to have to agree with TAY. You're ditching a "beat bulky waters - Vaporeon 100% of the time" for "beats bulky waters including vaporeon 49% of the time." I don't know if Vaporeon is a big enough deal to drop down to such a ridiculous percentage for beating Gyarados, Suicune and Pert. I mean maybe a mention in the set comments or something.

Though I disagree with TAY about HP Electric being mentioned on the set. No way, no how. Definitely is not worth it. But the set TAY posted minus HP Electric looks perfect. Mention Focus Blast in the set comments and all is good (or maybe the one he just posted that works too!)

 

[RaikouLover]

Gyarados (a common switch-in who shits on a 3 fighting type set), Suicune, Swampert, Rhyperior, and Starmie.

Gyarados is 2HKOed by both Fire Blast AND Focus Blast (your going to be Fire Blasting a lot more than Focus Blasting anyway) its Focus Blast that is for the other Waters... as the only thing on your list it doesn't beat is Starmie because Starmie is faster... thats the whole point. Grass Knot is kind of iffy in itself just because of how dangerous of a move it is. Yes, you can nail Suicune when it switches in for a more reliable 2HKO, but what if your opponent switches out that Suicune for a Salamence or a Scizor? 3/6 Pokemon that resist Fire + Fighting neutral combo are 2HKOed by Fire Blast anyway... thats why Focus Blast is viable.

Anyway, I guess the set is fine... but Vacuum Wave is more useful in conjuction with Focus Blast than with Close Combat... so maybe slash Focus Blast with Close combat?

 

[TAY]

Gyarados is only a 2HKO if Stealth Rock is up and it is running a min / min set, and again you have to rely on poor accuracy (hey the chance of Fire Blast hitting twice in a row is only ~72%!). According to the usage stats, Gyarados will be running high or max HP around 35% of the time, which is certainly not negligible. Add that with the fact that you certainly won't have SR up all the time, and my comments regarding Gyarados are certainly significant!

(this means that even if you can keep SR up 85% of the time, your chance of 2HKOing Gyarados with Fire Blast is about .72 * .65 * .85 = ~40%. Certainly not a good gamble to take. And while you might get a 2HKO anyway by rolling high damage, even a 50 percent chance is pretty iffy)

 

[RaikouLover]

Well, most people fear the set up of min / min Gyarados more than they do of the Max / Min Gyarados (those are the runs running only Waterfall).

But I think the point of the edit is satisfied... Hidden Power Ice just needed to be scrapped, but the rest goes either way I guess.

 

[Legacy Raider]

I would be in support of a set like TAY's, but with a little change:


name: Choice Specs
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Vacuum Wave
move 4: Focus Blast / Close Combat
nature: Naive
item: Choice Specs
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


I think Vacuum Wave is a much more helpful move on this set than having two non-priority Fighting moves. Vacuum Wave allows you to effectively check DD Tyranitar and SD Lucario among other things, as well as letting you finish off faster threats such as scarf Flygon and DD Kingdra once they are weakened. Vacuum Wave shouldn't be slashed with another Fighting type attack when the other two options play very similarly and so don't have to be run on the same set.

Personally, I would run Focus Blast in the last slot for SpecsApe, simply because without Atk investment or a boosting item, Close Combat is a very weak attack and not one I'd like to be locked into. Close Combat is obviously the better choice in terms of reliability, and if everyone had perfect prediction, it would obviously be the move of choice. However, Focus Blast gives a lot more leway in that even if you predict wrong, you are still using a STAB 120 BP attack with investment and specs behind it, instead of the much weaker Close Combat that will only be hurting the things you need to predict coming in to hurt. Some calcs for Close Combat and Focus Blast:

Close Combat vs 0/0 Heatran: 78.64 - 93.50% (37.5% chance to OHKO with SR)
Focus Blast vs 0/0 Heatran: 147.37 - 174.6%

Now Heatran is only coming in on ape if it tran is scarfed, since the common assumption is that Infernape will outspeed and switch to a Fighting attack against any non-scarfed Heatran. If you predict right and hit it with a Close Combat, it is still alive, and you won't be wanting to stay in on it now since it could very well be scarfed and outspeed and take out your ape. Focus Blast guarantees the kill if it hits.

Close Combat vs 148/252 Blissey: 76.74 - 90.70% (25% chance to OHKO with SR)
Focus Blast vs 148/0 Calm Blissey: 51.74 - 61.05%

This is a hypothetical situation because Blissey will never switch into Infernape. Focus Blast technically can get the job done if it hits twice, but Close Combat is the more reliable attack here. However, apart from Blissey, Focus Blast will hit every Pokemon in the game harder than Close Combat will, so once your opponent realises that he's facing a choice-locked Fighting attack, would you rather be using a Close Combat that does:

16.31 - 19.33% to 0/0 Gyarados and Salamence after Intimidate,
29.46 - 34.82% to 188/252 Vaporeon,
21.78 - 25.99% to 252/252 Suicune,
21.69 - 25.76% to 136/156 Starmie,
etc.

Or a Focus Blast that does

38.07 - 44.71% to 0/0 Gyarados,
45.62 - 53.78% to 0/0 Salamence,
58.48 - 69.20% to 188/0 Vaporeon,
55.20 - 65.35% to 252/0 Suicune,
48.81 - 57.62% to 136/0 Starmie?

Really, either of Close Combat or Focus Blast work in that last slot, it just depends on how much you want to rely on your prediction. But there is little justification to run both over Vacuum Wave.

 

[RaikouLover]

Legacy Raider basically said what I was trying to portray about Focus Blast so that should probably be the complete set.

Originally Posted by TAY
(this means that even if you can keep SR up 85% of the time, your chance of 2HKOing Gyarados with Fire Blast is about .72 * .65 * .85 = ~40%. Certainly not a good gamble to take. And while you might get a 2HKO anyway by rolling high damage, even a 50 percent chance is pretty iffy)

TAY, this is a very poor statistical attempt to rationalize trying to beat Gyarados with Infernape. If you are running a Choiced Fighting Pokemon, 99.9% of players will use Stealth Rock on their team for that reason alone, so making up an arbitrary number such as 85% is pointless. Then your saying 65% for usage statistics and it just doesn't work like that. Trying to beat Gyarados with Infernape is only as much of a gamble as the user makes it. Let me explain:

If you use Fire Blast and hit the incoming Gyarados, offensive varients will take a minimum of 38% damage, which is a 2HKO with Stealth Rock. If you miss hitting him on the switch, you obviously now cannot go for the 2HKO... If you hit Gyarados on the switch and it does say... 34%, that means Gyarados is running a good amount of HP EVs, meaning its RestTalk Roar, RestTalk DD, or Bulky DD. Bulky DD Gyarados is relatively uncommon in todays metagame (judging by your statistics, its probably 1/3 of that 35% you pointed out), so chances are, its RestTalk which means it is not an immediate threat offensively. In that case, switching out is a lower risk move. Now if you are facing offensive Gyarados and you already smacked him on the switch, you have an 85% chance to finish him off. So you technically have a 72% chance to beat offensive Gyarados, which is the one that people will fear setting up in the first place. Tbh, your statistics look like an attempt to flat out discredit that fact that Choice Specs Infernape (or at least my variation of it) can and will beat most of its counters. So I really don't see how plowing through Gyarados with Fire Blast is a so much of a "gamble" (people use SpecsTran for that very reason...).

 

[TAY]

I realize that there probably isn't a 40% chance of it working (it is probably higher), which is why I said that "you might get a 2HKO anyway" in my previous post. Even discounting everything besides Fire Blast misses (which would get you to stay in against Gyarados), a 28% chance of Infernape being KO'd is hardly optimal, nor is it Infernape's best option. I realize that Focus Blast can help ease prediction, since you'll (maybe) be fine whether they switch in Gyarados or Heatran or Salamence or whatever. But it isn't reliable. Fire Blast isn't either, but the extra power is so important that we use it anyway; the power increase from Focus Blast is not necessary for anything definite. A move that causes the user to die or do nothing instead of scoring a 2HKO over half the time is not competitively viable (yes, I realize this is somewhat of an oversimplification, but that is what will happen when you miss - you will switch out if the first misses, and die if the second misses). Fire Blast + Grass Knot + Close Combat will 2HKO everything switching into Infernape, minus Vaporeon. What you use in the last slot is a matter of preference for your team. Keep in mind that I have not pushed for anything besides using Grass Knot over Focus Blast. I never said you shouldn't use Focus Blast at all (I even suggested it be slashed in with Vac wave), I just said that you sure as hell had better not drop Grass Knot for it.

Even if you could predict perfectly every time, a 3 fighting attack set will lose losing to each of Starmie, Gyarados, Swampert, Suicune and Vaporeon either 51% or 28% of the time, whereas a set will Grass Knot will not lose any coverage and will beat three of those four 100% of the time. Also lol, Grass Knot does more damage to Vaporeon than Focus Blast on average...so if you want to talk about forcing your way through walls, that should be taken into account as well.

And once again: remember that the only thing I am pushing for is that Grass Knot should be a primary option. If you want to make Focus Blast a primary option as well then go for it; by far the most important attacks are Fire Blast, Grass Knot, and Close Combat.

Oh, and I gave a figure of 85% for keeping SR up (a very generous estimate in my experience) because of Rapid Spin and Taunt leads.

 

[RaikouLover]

Okay, I'll edit in the changes later today when I get back... will probably go with LR's rendition of the set.

But I was just arguing that Choice Items come down to weighing reliability and danger, hence the Grass Knot vs. Focus Blast debate. The closest example is SpecsMence, when a while ago many people (myself included) were mistakingly arguing Earthquake instead of Hydro Pump, for its reliability against its intended target(s) Heatran, Empoleon, Bastodian, etc. That is where reliability is clearly in favor of Earthquake, but Hydro Pump from a prediction standpoint is much less dangerous which is the same case as Grass Knot vs. Focus Blast. All I was trying to show was that Focus Blast still 2HKOs the water targets (albeit a 49% chance), and is a much safer option to be locked into than Grass Knot. You gave a good example yourself

I realize that Focus Blast can help ease prediction, since you'll (maybe) be fine whether they switch in Gyarados or Heatran or Salamence or whatever.

.. that is the whole point. You may be able to pull of that 2HKO on Suicune 100% of the time, but switching Suicune into a Grass Knot means a Salamence / Scizor / Lucario switch is coming next, which is a much more dangerous position than if they were to switch Suicune into a Focus Blast (then they too have to weigh the risks of staying in and praying for a miss, or switching those same pokemon into potential OHKO or 2HKOs). So in the end, I'll slash Focus Blast with Close Combat since they both OHKO Tyranitar and 2HKO Blissey, and Close Combat trades much more reliability for much more danger and because Vacuum Wave has so much usefulness.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

You may be able to pull of that 2HKO on Suicune 100% of the time, but switching Suicune into a Grass Knot means a Salamence / Scizor / Lucario switch is coming next, which is a much more dangerous position than if they were to switch Suicune into a Focus Blast (then they too have to weigh the risks of staying in and praying for a miss, or switching those same pokemon into potential OHKO or 2HKOs). So in the end, I'll slash Focus Blast with Close Combat since they both OHKO Tyranitar and 2HKO Blissey, and Close Combat trades much more reliability for much more danger and because Vacuum Wave has so much usefulness.

Or you can predict the Salamence/Scizor/Lucario switch after you hit the first gk and then switch to the appropriate counter in that situation. So when playing skillfully, you nail Suicune and then make the proper switchin to their next move while if you do the same thing with Focus Blast you risk missing and doing no damage and basically be forced out switch out and then come back for another round of SR + SS damage later. With good play there's just no reasonable justification for running Focus Blast over Grass Knot. Now for shitty play I guess you could make the case that it's safer...

I mean you're doing the right thing in the end but yeah I'm just saying heh

 

[the pugilist]

Prediction is too unreliable a reason for a move to be discounted entirely.

 

[Jumpman16]

Or you can predict the Salamence/Scizor/Lucario switch after you hit the first gk and then switch to the appropriate counter in that situation. So when playing skillfully, you nail Suicune and then make the proper switchin to their next move while if you do the same thing with Focus Blast you risk missing and doing no damage and basically be forced out switch out and then come back for another round of SR + SS damage later. With good play there's just no reasonable justification for running Focus Blast over Grass Knot. Now for shitty play I guess you could make the case that it's safer...

I mean you're doing the right thing in the end but yeah I'm just saying heh

well in that case what about when they decide to sacrifice their 15% suicune and stay in to surf your sala/scizor/lucario counter in "scarftran"

 

[RaikouLover]

Edited in the set.

 

[Bologo]

Edit the nature too. If Close Combat isn't being used, then Timid is the obvious choice, since you'd only be using special attacks, and you wouldn't have to lower a defense.

 

[Fuzznip]

<p>Infernape has the movepool to successfully pull off a Choice Specs set.

Minor nitpick. It's "off", not "of".