I haven't played against a single team that would have trouble with something inheriting Serperior. Yeah, it might get one kill up against offense, but it'd be hard pressed to get two. And with the number of things that CAN get two kills on offense, I don't know that Serperior is a viable donor.
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Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
canno
formerly The Reptile
If anything I'd go to Shaymin as a good doner. Seed Flare is a bit stronger than Leaf Storm initially and almost always drops SpDef if you choose Serene Grace. It also gets coverage which is nice.
It can also act as a doner to Mega Sceptile since after mega its main STAB isn't Leaf Storm.
It can also act as a doner to Mega Sceptile since after mega its main STAB isn't Leaf Storm.
I think transform should be banned, its WAY too easy to obliterate the enemy team
Mew(Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / whatever
- Transform
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Will-O-Wisp
After transforming you have whatever you opponent has with a whopping 704 HP
You transform to a fast sweeper? you are now a fast sweeper that can tank for days
You transform into a set up sweeper? you can now set up and be a better him with 704 HP
even without transforming, Will-O-Wisp Chansey......
Mew(Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / whatever
- Transform
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Will-O-Wisp
After transforming you have whatever you opponent has with a whopping 704 HP
You transform to a fast sweeper? you are now a fast sweeper that can tank for days
You transform into a set up sweeper? you can now set up and be a better him with 704 HP
even without transforming, Will-O-Wisp Chansey......
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
The best thing we can do is treat it like BH; just make sure you have an answer to all the mons you use on your team. For example, I never use keldeo without a keldeo counter, and I never use lant without a rhyperior waiting in the back. Its not even that hard to build teams like this since about half of them fall under this category anyways (if they are balanced), so beating transform chansey isn't even hard.
Shaymin-S seems pretty good in this meta, as between Seed Flare, Air Slash, and Earth Power, it can hit a lot of defensive mons super-effectively. I can imagine slapping a Skymin set on some physically-inclined mon with decent SpA as a lure for pesky Regis and Rhydons and whatnot. Levitate Doublade warrants HP Fire (Dark is probably better actually, no chance of immunity to that - it's only neutral against other steels, though)
Also, has anyone tried Larvitar as a donor? Guts, Dragon Dance, usable physical movepool.
Are we allowed to use say Aegislash-Blade separately or is it not allowed without Stance Change?
It's not allowed without Stance Change.
Without Stance Change, it'd stay in Shield Forme, just like it does in all Metagames where it loses its Ability.
Aegislash would love to be basically an upgraded version of Prankster Sableye and would love the recovery especially. Wonderful check to all the Ateability spamming running around, I'd say.
Aegiaslash should be good with prankster, and possibly regenerator(abuse u-turn and status), possibly abuse protean plus priority to play prediction games.
magic guard/bounce could feasibly be abused.
Levitate/Flash fire could add some useful imunities
if it weren't steel toxic heal would be a nice option.
Loosing out on king's shield is unfortunate but access to better status options and defensive abilities should make up for it
Snaquaza you should add any unbans to the OP
edit:
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover/pain split
- Magic Coat/taunt/substitute/protect
- Knock Off/calm mind
wow to decrease physical damage and the majority of damage out put would come from here
recover is of course for recovery
Pain split nice on something with this low of hp but slightly inconsistent
magic Coat/taunt are for hazard control and status prevention
sub helps prevents status as well and can allow to take advantage of switches to the best ability
protect is to boost passive recovery
calm mind works in counter point to wow to boost special defense
knock of is for generic utility
magic guard/bounce could feasibly be abused.
Levitate/Flash fire could add some useful imunities
if it weren't steel toxic heal would be a nice option.
Loosing out on king's shield is unfortunate but access to better status options and defensive abilities should make up for it
Snaquaza you should add any unbans to the OP
edit:
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover/pain split
- Magic Coat/taunt/substitute/protect
- Knock Off/calm mind
wow to decrease physical damage and the majority of damage out put would come from here
recover is of course for recovery
Pain split nice on something with this low of hp but slightly inconsistent
magic Coat/taunt are for hazard control and status prevention
sub helps prevents status as well and can allow to take advantage of switches to the best ability
protect is to boost passive recovery
calm mind works in counter point to wow to boost special defense
knock of is for generic utility
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This is now, next to being playable on Custom Game coded on the the Aqua Server thanks to Slayer95 !
Thanks everyone who has supported the metagame. We'll still host tours on the main room, but here you can play it without illegalities, I guess :p
Also unfixable made a new banner as the other was outdated!
Thanks everyone who has supported the metagame. We'll still host tours on the main room, but here you can play it without illegalities, I guess :p
Also unfixable made a new banner as the other was outdated!
Wah
And remove from the example sets, and put a good stallmon there.
I posted a battle of my tour win earlier in the thread (bad stall with mdiancie, who was the mvp of the match)
What are some other offensive bouncers you have been using?
This meta is extremely to play and watch grow :]
I have to admit, Inheritance sure does look as good as people point it out to be, and I can't wait to make some teams :3
Maybe replace it with Gale Wings Landorus-T or Glalie.
Now to my main point, what are some good Flash Fire sets?
You should replace the Keldeo set in example sets coz, you know, it's banned.
Maybe replace it with Gale Wings Landorus-T or Glalie.
Now to my main point, what are some good Flash Fire sets?
I actually use Flareon Doublade on my stall team, as Flareon happens to have just the PERFECT movepool for it.
I noticed togekiss has a pretty lethal combo of hustle+extreme speed, so looking at potential normal type donors I found Ursaring:
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Ursaring Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 207-244 (49.2 - 58%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, a neutral priority move that 2hko's hippowdon... ofc though, normal resists seem kind of omni-present in this meta.
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Ursaring Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 207-244 (49.2 - 58%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, a neutral priority move that 2hko's hippowdon... ofc though, normal resists seem kind of omni-present in this meta.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
are them pesky simple users annoying the shit out of you? do you just not want to battle them ever? are your current simple checks complete ass not functioning well? well my friend, i have a deal for you! its mandifable!
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 101-120 (23.8 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery!
meanwhile you can safely set up rocks, knock off some items, and even toxic something :o:o:o amaziiiiiiiiiiiing! batteries sold seperately.
Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 101-120 (23.8 - 28.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery!
meanwhile you can safely set up rocks, knock off some items, and even toxic something :o:o:o amaziiiiiiiiiiiing! batteries sold seperately.
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Keep in mind that that's 60.5% chance to 2HKO on two consecutive hits, which works out to a ~38.7% chance with Hustle misses. I mean, it's fucking impressive power nonetheless, but if you want to kill walls, go with Double-Edge:
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Ursaring Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 310-366 (73.8 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Which should be doable without too much prior damage. A set of Extreme Speed / Double-Edge / Drain Punch / Aerial Ace is probably your best bet out of Togekiss's ass-tastic physical movepool, though you could drop a Fire Blast in the last slot to make most Doublade/Aegislash not a hard-counter:
0 SpA Ursaring Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 146-174 (45.3 - 54%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
Also, an Extreme Speed user with perfect coverage:
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Facade / Return
Inherits from Lucario. At +2, it plows through a lot of the tier -- things that can soak up Espeeds are frequently wrecked by Close Combat. It's exceptionally difficult to revenge kill except by Normal resists that outspeed it (and sashers and Fake Out, I guess), because its Espeed is faster than theirs. And if all else fails, it's still taking a chunk out of something before dying. It also takes out Chansey with ease before it can get a Transform up. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but Sableye variants don't appreciate a burned Facade to the face either. Still, there are situations where the buff from Return over Extreme Speed is desirable, so that's slashed in too.
I'd like to call for a suspect test on Chansey. Chansey is incredibly annoying to face and is incredibly hard to break when it inherits from Sableye, giving it access to Will-O-Wisp and Recover that now have priority. On top of this, it eliminates anything that attacks it with Metal Burst. Physical attackers can't break through it when they're crippled, while its Special bulk is still outrageous. Chansey is too hard to break through without shifting your team to cater around it, so I think it should be banned.
In my opinion the problem doesn't really come from chansey but more from inheriting from sableye. Prankster wisp + recover + taunt is just way too strong, now give it to anything that has decent stats and it makes them really hard to break.
On the subject of sableye I think the culprit here is in fact chansey. Prankster doublade is good but manageable, but with the obscene hp pool chansey has, metal burst is incredibly strong. As well as having prankster wisp to boost it's already eviolite boosted defenses, it has the already poster child special bulk to survive on the special side. Prankster taunt stops it being taunted for the most part, and this combination of moves basically forces you to run a dedicated chansey hater, magic guard sponge, or beat it with pp stall. Other prankster abusers may prove troublesome, but with 1 weakness that it tanks rather well or cripples status wise (especially now that launcher abuse keldeo is gone), I think a chansey suspect is warranted, but prankster blanket ban yet to be proven necessary.
I don't see inheriting from whimsicott murkrow or liepard would be any better.
No metal burst, no willowisp.
I'm inclined to agree yoman5 -- other things with Prankster Wisp are fucking annoying, as is Prankster anything ever, but the fact of the matter is that those things can be handled with Special attackers in some form or another. Chansey, uh, can't, unless we're talking like +1 STAB Psyshock from Latios (good luck getting to +1/+2 with Prankster Taunt though) or something inheriting from Keldeo for some godforsaken reason, and if it doesn't get OHKOed it can always just Metal Burst back and wreck your shit.
Even then, I think this could all be handled if one didn't have to be wary of Transform Chansey. Teambuilding restrictions aside, if your way of dealing with Chansey can't face a hella bulky version of itself one-on-one, switching in is a risky business if you don't already know the thing's set. Just as an example, Guts Garchomp (which can set up on Sableye Chansey quite easily, provided it doesn't get Taunted before it sets up a DD) can't even 2HKO its Transformed version reliably without an attack boost, while it's cleanly OHKOed by itself in return. I can't think of anything offhand that can deal with Sableye Chansey and Transform Chansey, and that's ridiculous.
subCM kelducario because fuck using non-niche pokemon to deal with common threats.
When chansey is gone you'll see stuff like snor/munchlax with the same set, and the problem will still remain. Right now chansey is just the best user, but really a lot of specially defensive mons can pull it off.
Also, blissey is a thing too.