Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[Manchamp]

Not sure how good it really is or if anyone has mentioned it, but I really like using Snorlax (Breloom)

Snorlax @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Swords Dance
- Synthesis
- Spore

I love this cuz Snorlax = Awesome!
With so much recovery going on I would suggest Bulk Up rather than Swords dance, then you can run 252 SpD and become supreme bulklord once at a reasonable number of defense boosts. As for Spore, I at first thought, "Too bad this set does nothing if the opponent still has a ghost type". Then I realized the strongest move breloom gets against ghosts is Iron Tail, and we all know what that's like.
I might recommend Mach Punch for priority, drain punch for additional recovery, or superpower for power, and since having bulk up will fix the stat drops I think it's ok.

Calcs about EV spread

Facade set at 140BP

252+ Atk Snorlax Facade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 196-232 (49.8 - 59%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It needs max attack Adamant to break unaware on mons similar to clefable.

+2 8 Atk Snorlax Facade vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 303-357 (104.1 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

However you only need 8 attack against offensive mons and can focus on defensive EVs to get more boosts.

+2 8 Atk Snorlax Facade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 204-240 (57.6 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Hope these help decide spreads

Otherwise Gliscor is available for better coverage options and Roost > synthesis cuz weather

 

[motherlove]

Calc on clefable is completely irrelevant since it's bulk is garbage compared to anything else in the meta.

Anyway, why is chatter still allowed? Why are we even discussing ate when the god of uncompetitiveness is still a thing? There is 0 reliable way of dealing with it except soundproof or some other otherwise completely useless ability that you can't afford to run if you don't want to be steamrolled by the rest of the actually competitive meta.

 

[I like donkeys]

Calc on clefable is completely irrelevant since it's bulk is garbage compared to anything else in the meta.

Anyway, why is chatter still allowed? Why are we even discussing ate when the god of uncompetitiveness is still a thing? There is 0 reliable way of dealing with it except soundproof or some other otherwise completely useless ability that you can't afford to run if you don't want to be steamrolled by the rest of the actually competitive meta.

I thoroughly agree. Get this chatter cancer outta here.

 

[Talpr0ne]

I'm not really convinced that Chatter is uncompetitive here. This isn't AAA, BH or STABmons, where GW Chatter can be a thing, so you don't get the priority confusion which is arguably the breaking factor in these other metas. And if you choose to use Chatter, you are restricted to Chatot's movepool, which is fairly restricted, to the point where the only mon that can make effective use of it is Mega Pidgeot. Even then, Mega Pidgeot doesn't really spam Chatter; Sing is its primary mean of cripple its check and counters, and +2 Boomburst is powerful enough to break through stuff without the help of confusion. Finally, Pidge is easily revengekillable, by -atespeed or just faster mons, and it's weak to Stealth Rock, meaning that it tends to be amazing only against stall and more passive balance; against offense it's going to get one kill or put a mon to sleep at most, and that is if it actually manages to switch in and setup. Maybe Chatter is actually broken, I'm not denying that confusion can sometimes win you the game, but acting like it is the priority right now looks like just wanting to do what the other OMs did without thinking about the contest of Inheritance to me.

 

[motherlove]

I'm not really convinced that Chatter is uncompetitive here. This isn't AAA, BH or STABmons, where GW Chatter can be a thing, so you don't get the priority confusion which is arguably the breaking factor in these other metas. And if you choose to use Chatter, you are restricted to Chatot's movepool, which is fairly restricted, to the point where the only mon that can make effective use of it is Mega Pidgeot. Even then, Mega Pidgeot doesn't really spam Chatter; Sing is its primary mean of cripple its check and counters, and +2 Boomburst is powerful enough to break through stuff without the help of confusion. Finally, Pidge is easily revengekillable, by -atespeed or just faster mons, and it's weak to Stealth Rock, meaning that it tends to be amazing only against stall and more passive balance; against offense it's going to get one kill or put a mon to sleep at most, and that is if it actually manages to switch in and setup. Maybe Chatter is actually broken, I'm not denying that confusion can sometimes win you the game, but acting like it is the priority right now looks like just wanting to do what the other OMs did without thinking about the contest of Inheritance to me.

Chatot's movepool is fairly restricted to chatter, heat wave, nasty plot, roost, encore, taunt, toxic and substitute. Which isn't really restricting at all. The fact that stall or balance has no reliable answer to it and can just get 6-0 is luck isn't on their side should be imo enough to make it banworthy. The fact that even against offense it can put in work and sometimes get a sub up is just retarded. Being easy revenkillable isn't an argument in a meta where literally everything is easily revengekillable.
But more than that the worse part about chatter is how incredibly uncompetitive it is.

 

[T.I.A.]

Chatot's movepool is fairly restricted to chatter, heat wave, nasty plot, roost, encore, taunt, toxic and substitute. Which isn't really restricting at all. The fact that stall or balance has no reliable answer to it and can just get 6-0 is luck isn't on their side should be imo enough to make it banworthy. The fact that even against offense it can put in work and sometimes get a sub up is just retarded. Being easy revenkillable isn't an argument in a meta where literally everything is easily revengekillable.
But more than that the worse part about chatter is how incredibly uncompetitive it is.

Don't forget Boomburst.

 

[Funbot28]

Don't want to derail discussion, but has there been a verdict on the ban of Mega Altaria and Suicune/inheriting from Masquerain?

 

[Snaquaza]

Don't want to derail discussion, but has there been a verdict on the ban of Mega Altaria and Suicune/inheriting from Masquerain?

I didn't want to make the post as I've not really been up-to-date in this metagame but anyway.

Inheriting from Masquerain has been banned.
The general consensus was that Masquerain has too many tools and could generally make more Pokemon than just one (Suicune) OP. The combination of Intimidate and Quiver Dance is incredible as both defenses get "boosted", while it also gets reliable recovery so its hard to wear down. It's still possible to fulfill a similar role by using something like Venomoth, so you can still use Quiver Dance strategies well, but Masquerain just made them too good. Suicune wasn't banned because of this reason, and this ban was not because I wanted to keep other Suicune sets around: that's not a valid argument, or you can start banning random things.

Otherwise nothing has been banned as they didn't feel urgent enough, we may revisit them later in the month.

 

[Manchamp]

I honestly don't see why there is a debate to ban chatter. Who wouldn't want it banned? As previously stated, megaPidgeot is the best / only mon to inherit from Chatot and it wouldn't even care for Chatter on its move set. Nasty plot/Boomburst/HeatWave/Sing. Boom, done. Why not ban Chatter? Is there someone who would be crushed if they can't win their battles on confusion hax anymore?

 

[Lcass4919]

lets ban dynamic punch next! so uncompetitive.

no, but seriously, chatter isnt a "destroy all tool" its basically a "destroy when given the nessisary tools" tool. stabmons, AAA, BH, and other metas all gave chatter what it needed to surpass...chatot, as amazing as boomburst is....has such a restricted movepool and ability that chatter isnt really worth running. like, lets be serious here. who uses chatter well? nothing. literally nothing appriciates chatter in this meta, pidgeot might like it at first glance, but what does it HELP it with? chatter in BH gave you a powerful priority sweeping tool that gave you chances to setup, while also having a easy way to stop imposter. AAA gave you basically the same problem, but without imposter to worry about its set. and stabmons gave everything flying type chatter. EVERYTHING.

What does chatot itself give, that makes chatter banworthy? 50/50's? well...not really. for example, pinsir, altaria, and other espeeders all can outpace chatter, and ohko literally the only good abuser of it(alt aside, but even then ,alt prefers coverage over hax). the problem with chatter in this meta, is that its really not a problem. the meta subconsiously deals with it with too many ways to count. and theres only 2 real abusers of chatter, both of which prefer heat wave/nasty plot over it for coverage reasons.

the problem isnt banning because its op...thats the problem i see. the problem is "banning it because its op in OTHER METAS" which is a terrible thought process. ive never feared chatter when facing pidgeot. and i run ALL forms of offense and stall. so dont even pull the "but offense/stall struggles" and i have one of the worst luck out there. lets not ban something because "OH GOD IT CONFUSES 100% OF THE TIME AND IT IS OP IN EVERY META" because, quite frankly, its rather mediocre in THIS meta, due to how many pokemon completely shit on chatots coverage, and how many pokemon out prioritize it, and generally chatot abusers(mostly pidgeot) want its access to nasty plot, heat wave and sing/roost. chatter might give more setup oppurtunities, but that means nothing when doublade burns, pinsir ohkos, and rhydon ohkos and tanks your 2x boomburst. the meta just isnt kind to chatot inheritors, which is why i feel like chatter isnt worth banning. because if its not getting results in this meta, then its not banworthy in this meta.

and if you want to prove me wrong, give me replays that show me common inheritance teams losing to chatter IN A SERIOUS AND GAME BREAKING MANNOR. im talking going from 6-6 to 6-3/4 in a half. if i'm going to ban a move that doesn't see much use, i want to see it destroy teams. not simply annoy them.

 

[thesecondbest]

then unban swagger
there's no reason to not ban chatter
It's unhealthy, uncompetitive, broken, and uncounterable. What more needs to be said?

 

[I like donkeys]

lets ban dynamic punch next! so uncompetitive.

no, but seriously, chatter isnt a "destroy all tool" its basically a "destroy when given the nessisary tools" tool. stabmons, AAA, BH, and other metas all gave chatter what it needed to surpass...chatot, as amazing as boomburst is....has such a restricted movepool and ability that chatter isnt really worth running. like, lets be serious here. who uses chatter well? nothing. literally nothing appriciates chatter in this meta, pidgeot might like it at first glance, but what does it HELP it with? chatter in BH gave you a powerful priority sweeping tool that gave you chances to setup, while also having a easy way to stop imposter. AAA gave you basically the same problem, but without imposter to worry about its set. and stabmons gave everything flying type chatter. EVERYTHING.

What does chatot itself give, that makes chatter banworthy? 50/50's? well...not really. for example, pinsir, altaria, and other espeeders all can outpace chatter, and ohko literally the only good abuser of it(alt aside, but even then ,alt prefers coverage over hax). the problem with chatter in this meta, is that its really not a problem. the meta subconsiously deals with it with too many ways to count. and theres only 2 real abusers of chatter, both of which prefer heat wave/nasty plot over it for coverage reasons.

the problem isnt banning because its op...thats the problem i see. the problem is "banning it because its op in OTHER METAS" which is a terrible thought process. ive never feared chatter when facing pidgeot. and i run ALL forms of offense and stall. so dont even pull the "but offense/stall struggles" and i have one of the worst luck out there. lets not ban something because "OH GOD IT CONFUSES 100% OF THE TIME AND IT IS OP IN EVERY META" because, quite frankly, its rather mediocre in THIS meta, due to how many pokemon completely shit on chatots coverage, and how many pokemon out prioritize it, and generally chatot abusers(mostly pidgeot) want its access to nasty plot, heat wave and sing/roost. chatter might give more setup oppurtunities, but that means nothing when doublade burns, pinsir ohkos, and rhydon ohkos and tanks your 2x boomburst. the meta just isnt kind to chatot inheritors, which is why i feel like chatter isnt worth banning. because if its not getting results in this meta, then its not banworthy in this meta.

and if you want to prove me wrong, give me replays that show me common inheritance teams losing to chatter IN A SERIOUS AND GAME BREAKING MANNOR. im talking going from 6-6 to 6-3/4 in a half. if i'm going to ban a move that doesn't see much use, i want to see it destroy teams. not simply annoy them.

Good points. I'm gonna make a few teams with chatter and see how they work in the meta (once it's been coded of course). Saying chatter was bannable without even testing it was kinda foolish of me, however I still think it should be at least suspected purely because of it's uncompetitiveness.

then unban swagger
there's no reason to not ban chatter
It's unhealthy, uncompetitive, broken, and uncounterable. What more needs to be said?

I wouldn't say broken or uncounterable, but the other 2 i'd agree with.

 

[Shruggy]

At first when i saw this meta game i was like "this is stupid, why would you give somethings moves to something else". But then i looked at it in a bit more detail and i started to giggle when i realised the potential, here's a few quick sets/combos i came up with:

Unsinkable duo:

Arcanine (Doublade) @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed

Clefable (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Meteor Mash
- Aromatherapy / Knock off

+1 flareblitz on doublade hits rly hard without any investment and its literally unkillable baring random dark/ground coverage (thats what team is for baby!). Fully def invested ferrothorn stealing from clefables hilarious movepool is pretty much unkillable too.

Honorable mentions:

Alomomola (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 248 Def / 16 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Knock Off
- Toxic

Xatu (Cresselia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- U-turn
- Psychic

In fact holy shit if you take Chanseys movepool its so deep and it gets serene grace!!

Chansey (Thundurus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Much looking forward to this meta :)

 

[jacksoras]

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 120 Def / 136 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind

Bit of a weird set but surprisingly effective when used right. Inheriting from clefable, thundurus is so much better without rock damage, add on bolt-beam with cm and softboiled for recovery as well as mg LO and u have a surprisingly effective sweeper on your team. The defence evs is to survive +2 pinsir espeed if u have taken the equivalent of sr damage, allowing thundy to check one of the most dangerous mons in the whole tier. Magic guard allows you to ignore status from fat blobs like chansey, many of which you can set up on, enjoy!​

 

[NyneTiNyne]

I just want to ask something regarding this:

- Inheriting Wonder Guard, Pure Power, Huge Power, Gale Wings, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Imposter, Parental Bond is banned.

I was looking at Mix and Mega the other day and something really got me thinking. In Mix and Mega, Mega Stones which give you abilities like Huge Power, Pure Power and Speed Boost are banned, but not for pokemon which already have that ability. For example: Diggersby can use Mawilite or Medichamite, Ninjask can use Blazikenite. What if we would bring that theory to Inheritance? Azumarill with the moveset of Mawile, Dugtrio with the moveset of Trapinch or even Gothitelle with the moveset of Gengar-Mega. Imo this is just a minor thingy, but still something that can make this meta a bit more interesting.

 

[Slayer95]

Sorry, guys. I got a mostly-working implementation (yes, I decided to reimplement it, to get Donor Clause working) ready last night, but a one-line "improvement" broke it all.
It will get patched out in a while (together with randbats fix).

 

[Manchamp]

First battle of the month! Lots of fun, loving my team so far!

Second battle, I battled a guy who had two megas, already mega'd, and with items. Please tell me this is a fixable mistake? This is Inheritance and I felt like I stepped into MegaMons

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Magcargo (Registeel) @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def or SpD
Relaxed / Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn / Toxic

I remember getting some good results with Flame Body Hippo last time around, this time checking ate abilities is more important. Good rock setter and blanket checks a ton of physical attackers.


Here is one more set I have been enjoying,

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Strong Jaw
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Fang
- Crunch
- Poison Fang / Superpower

Weavile has a bunch of sets but this set is interesting to me because it gives a 120 BP Stab Crunch with no drawbacks. Then you also have DD which makes it even more threatening. It also gets pretty good coverage from Tyrantrum even though it misses having priority a little.

 

[Talpr0ne]

then unban swagger
there's no reason to not ban chatter
It's unhealthy, uncompetitive, broken, and uncounterable. What more needs to be said?

Swagger was only banned after we collected large proof of its toxic effect on the OU meta. I've yet to see similar proof for Chatter in Inheritance.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

A gamebreaking bug that everyone can use fully evolved megas. Fix this pls.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-288904945

Edit: Also someone complained that Mega Mence's set is illegal when it isn't banned.

http://prntscr.com/8y6gbe

http://prntscr.com/8y6g01

 

[NyneTiNyne]

Probopass (Garchomp) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Smack Down/Gravity
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock/Fire Punch
- Taunt/Fire Punch

I made a team around SubDD Mega-Altaria and needed something that could get rid of most of Mega-Altaria's counters, which are mainly Steel types. First I looked at Magnezone because it had Magnet Pull, but it didn't really give me a good movepool. Then I looked at the more overlooked Magnet Puller, Probopass and I saw this one move: Smack Down. I realized this was perfect for Levitate Steel types, mainly Levitran.

Magnet Pull and Smack Down are the 2 big things going on here. Traps Steel types and knocks them on the ground to EQ them afterwards. Gravity can be used as well instead of Smack Down and can be better in some circumstances. Earthquake is STAB and hits most Steel types for super-effective. The next 2 slots are open for either SR, Fire Punch and/or Taunt. SR comes in handy because ,when you are trapping a steel type, you can easily set up your rocks with no drawbacks as they cannot switch out. Fire Punch is mainly for Unaware Ferrothorn, which is not 2HKO'd by Earthquake. Taunt is your 3rd possibility and imo you better run Taunt over Fire Punch. With Taunt you can make it so Ferrothorn cannot heal up and you can then easily 3HKO with EQ. This also means you can kill FF Ferrothorn which you cannot with only Fire Punch. Also, some Steel types do run Will-O-Wisp which can cripple you and Taunt solves that problem. You can, if you want, use another Ground pokemon. Landorus-T is probably a good choice as it can run many sets, which makes him even more unpredictable.

One thing that stops this set to shine to its full potential, is the fact that U-turn exists. Levitate Steel types can run U-turn and because you need at least 2 turns to kill them, they can easily switch out if they know what you are going to do.

 

[Shruggy]

Swagger was only banned after we collected large proof of its toxic effect on the OU meta. I've yet to see similar proof for Chatter in Inheritance.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-288912940

i dont know i think its pretty obnoxious, skip to turn 28 to see where the 'fun' begins, turns a relatively straightforward win into a toxic loss

 

[lordmagecar]

I just want to ask something regarding this:



I was looking at Mix and Mega the other day and something really got me thinking. In Mix and Mega, Mega Stones which give you abilities like Huge Power, Pure Power and Speed Boost are banned, but not for pokemon which already have that ability. For example: Diggersby can use Mawilite or Medichamite, Ninjask can use Blazikenite. What if we would bring that theory to Inheritance? Azumarill with the moveset of Mawile, Dugtrio with the moveset of Trapinch or even Gothitelle with the moveset of Gengar-Mega. Imo this is just a minor thingy, but still something that can make this meta a bit more interesting.

fuck no why do you want perish trap wob

 

[Lcass4919]

then unban swagger
there's no reason to not ban chatter
It's unhealthy, uncompetitive, broken, and uncounterable. What more needs to be said?

swagger was banned due to swagplay. NOT due to swagger itself. why don't we ban flatter/teeter dance instead? oh wait, its a mediocre move that although barely any pokemon gets it, PLENTY do in this meta. again, dont try to shoot my points down, without bringing replays to prove me wrong.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-288912940

i dont know i think its pretty obnoxious, skip to turn 28 to see where the 'fun' begins, turns a relatively straightforward win into a toxic loss

THIS is what i want. SOLID evidence that proves chatter can do something in this meta. HOWEVER. i still stand by my logic that "it didnt DESTROY this team, it only took down 2 pokemon" (doublade was at low hp allready). honestly, this proves that it might be too much for stall. but, it still has counters. in fact, you ran 2 of them on this team only, and you managed to stop pretty much a pokemon heralded for being the BEST stallbreaker. tell me, how would you have managed if that thundy was something like prankster sub/roost tail glow with thunderbolt? i mean, you got broke down by a stallbreaker. so what? you still managed to beat it through the hax, whereas i can see a common thundy set that wouldve given your team WAY more trouble.
+3 252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 261-308 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
even chansey would have trouble dealing with it. honestly, this post DOES show chatter putting in work...but imho, it didnt show enough of CHATTER destroying, and moreso THUNDERUS breaking with chatter. and even then you managed to beat it. under normal circumstances saying "you had 2 checks" would be a terrible argument, but as i said, we pack checks subconsiously. im not saying its a bad example, i mean, clearly it put in work with hax, but im just saying "that still isnt toxic enough for my tastes" gale wings chatot in AAA 4/6-0ed offense AND stall teams. seeing it on a wallbreaker vs stall, and net 2 ko's by itself isn't really "broken" in my eyes.

 

[Jajoken]

I have not yet had the chance to play the new ladder, but in the last month this was on the main server, I don't recall running into Chatter. What I DID run into was Prankster + Confuse Ray/Thunder Wave/Roost/??? Blissey and Chansey. There was one guy that I kept running into that always used it, and eventually I'd just auto-forfeit not because I couldn't beat it (which I did repeatedly) but because it was so aggravating and random that I'd rather just take a hit to my points than play it out. Here's the set (I think):

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Confuse Ray
- Thunder Wave
- Roost/Substitute
- Night Shade

I apologize in advance to the ladder if people start using this shit again.

I can't make a real statement on the ban-worthiness of either Chatter or this particular set (which can apply to any bulky Pokemon and not just Blissey), but I will say that the reasoning for the Swagger ban was that there was no real valid use for it other than a desperation measure that can turn a game through luck. Unlike Thunder Wave, it can't be justified as speed control. Another reason was that the combination of Prankster+Foul Play+Thunder Wave+Swagger used to be only on subpar Pokemon like Liepard, but when Klefki got it, that set it over the edge. In Inheritance, any Pokemon can use Chatter/Prankster Confuse Ray. Just something to keep in mind.