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Introducing ArTran

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by locoghoul, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. locoghoul


    Apr 29, 2008
    Hi all, some of you may remember my old Torment Ubers team in Gen 4. I decided to modified it with the release of B/W and came up with this a while back (late October) but life got in the way and I tested it only limited times. I've been playing again this week and got into top 10 in PO server (Ubers Smogon is more dead than in Shoddy) after two days of playing this new version. Hope you guys like it, suggestions are welcomed!

    Skill link
    Jolly @ Focus Sash
    60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe

    Ice Shard
    Icicle Spear
    Rapid Spin
    Toxic Spikes

    My old lead returns to lay down the Toxic Spikes. It is very reliable at his job and against Deo-S I just Icicle Spear as they Taunt and then Ice Shard for the kill leaving my sash intact. You can always Rapid Spin if they go for entry hazards first. Against Kyogre leads I also use Toxic spikes first and depending who goes first I check if they are scarved or if they are bulky leads. If bulky then Arceus Grass comes in, if scarved then Heatran comes. The reason for max attack is that I can dent Groudon from the start as Cloyster defense is pretty good. Icicle Spear does decent damage and can Rapid Spin the rocks. If still alive it can act as a good revenge killers for dragons or Shaymin-S with Ice Shard. If not I can always use him as fodder to scout or stall.

    Flash Fire
    Calm @ Leftovers
    244 HP / 44 SpD / 220 Spe

    Taunt/Flamethrower/Lava Plume

    My stall machine :). Decided to change Torment for Toxic because Sub/Protect gives me enough stalling already. The reason for Toxic with TSpikes is mainly for Lugia, Latias and Ho-oh. With those Spe EVs Heatran outspeeds most neutral 90s and ensures the toxic stalling. I prefer to use Taunt for things like Lugia, Blissey and other Heatrans but without a Fire move I can't kill Ferrothorn, Scizor (not as common as before) and Foretress. I know Taunt makes them useless (except Scizor) but I don't like Forry spinning away my hazards. This is my Dragon switch and my Ice Beam absorber.

    Calm @ Meadow Plate
    62 HP / 104 SpAtk / 144 SpD / 168 Spe

    Grass Knot
    Ice Beam

    Entering one really underappreciated poke. Sure, Extremekiller is awesome and CM variants are also great but I really needed some Kyogre counter that wasn't Latias (too many Dragon weaknesses) and found out just like CeleTran was so useful in OU, Arceus Grass complements this team very well. Beats all Kyogres unless they are scarved and predict the switch into Ice beam. Even then, I just switch back to Heatran to take the Ice Beam :). The key point here is the speed. At 318 Spe it outspeeds positive nature 95s (yes, it outspeeds Jolly or MixRay) which includes offensive variants of Kyogre and RP Groudon before the boost. Speaking of which, this thing is a perfect counter for it, Stone Edge or Dragon Claw doesn't 3HKO and Grass Knot does huge damage to it. Finally, Flamethrower is the surprise element against Scizor, Ferrothorn (I usually switch into his Leech Seed) and Forretress. Most players never see the Fire move coming.

    Impish @ Leftovers
    200 HP / 124 Atk / 60 Def / 116 SpD / 8 Spe

    Stone Edge
    Dragon Tail
    Stealth Rock

    Support Groudon. My answer to SD Arceus and my phaser. Not to much to comment here, 8 Spe to outspeed most support 90s and the rest of the EVs are distributed so that it also has some Special bulk. Stone Edge for Ho-oh who can be a threat to the team.

    Hasty @ Griseous Orb
    64 Atk / 248 SAtk / 196 Spe

    Shadow Sneak
    Draco Meteor
    Aura Sphere

    One of my mix attackers and my spin blocker. Yes, it doesn't have HP Fire but most Forretress think that I do so they still switch out. I prefer Earthquake to deal with Heatran and Aura Sphere for good coverage so that I don't spam Draco Meteor right away. Shadow Sneak allows me to deal with Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Arceus Ghost once they have been weakened (around 40%). Also, between Heatran and Gira-O I can stall attackers alternating between switchs and protects (Gira-O has Ground/Fighting immunities that affect Heatran while he takes Ice and Dragon attacks).

    Hasty @ Lustrous Orb
    216 Atk / 40 SAtk / 252 Spe

    Spacial Rend
    Aqua Tail
    Dragon Claw

    Finally, my other mix attacker. Went for a physical variant because not many people expects it. Lustrous Orb over Life Orb or Scarf because if you haven't noticed I like the surprise factor so being able to switch attacks without the opponent to know that I can is a big plus in my book. I've killed many Foretresses and Ferrothorns switching into Spacial Rend and that usually leaves a whole in my opponent's team (usually no more dragon resist so that Gira-O can now spam Draco Meteor every time it can). I guess I could use a special variant with Surf, Outrage, Draco Meteor and Flamethrower but I'm not using these team anymore so I'm leaving it like that.


    Darkrai, Mewtwo, CM Arceus: My main threats are these speedy special attackers as I don't have a special wall per se. Toxic Spikes are my friend and I can only stall them to the point of using Gira-O to Shadow Sneak for the kill. Major pain to deal with.

    Scarf Dialga: If Heatran doesn't have a Fire move then Dialga can cause trouble. Groudon can take a Dragon Pulse but Draco Meteor will kill and I can't afford to lose my defense wall early in the game.

    SD Arceus: Smart players will always have another physical attacker (DDQuaza, SD Groudon) to weaken my Groudon first so that I can't deal with him. If brougth early game then Groudon can phase it and Toxic Spikes will deal with him. Not much problem early game as late when I can't even stall him.

    Jolly Ho-Oh: If it has Earthquake then this can easily kill half of my team if not all. Groudon can take him if it hasn't taken too much damage otherwise gives a lot of trouble.

    My Team

  2. Splendiferous


    Jan 7, 2011
    Sub-roost Hooh is very dangerous to this team (if your heatran is down). Consider running a bit more speed on Groudon as most Adamant sub-roost Hoohs run either 8 or 12 EVs. If the Hooh is faster than your groudon they can just keep subbing until you run out of Stone Edge PP.
  3. Sir Koopaman

    Sir Koopaman

    Nov 4, 2010
    Nice job, but your team is very weak to Subroost Ho-Oh, and so I recommend replacing Grass Arceus for Electric Arceus, because he can stil take on Kyogre, but won't get murdered by Ho-Oh, and replace Grass Knot for Thunder or Electric Judgement as Kyogre's abillity will always set-up rain and Thunder will never miss in Rain. And on your Heatran, use Flamethrower, it has 100% accuracy, and kills of Scizor, Forretres, and Ferrothorn.
  4. locoghoul


    Apr 29, 2008
    Both Heatran and Groudon are faster than Sub Roost Ho-oh. Once it gets Toxic it's not a problem
  5. j99ubers


    Sep 17, 2010
    OK, this team is pretty good and has good defensive synergy, but there are a couple of things you will need to watch out for. First of all Reshiram, Nitro Charge destroys this team and nothing can safely switch into the Scarf or Specs set. Another thing to note is the lack of a scarfer in this team so Mewtwo and Darkrai will run rampant against you. I would suggest changing Palkia to a choice scarf variant to help keep these threats in check however there isnt much you can really do against Ho-Oh without using Chansey, Ho-Oh or Kyogre so I dont really know how best to help you with that.
  6. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Ubers Co-Leader

    Jan 18, 2009
    I don't really rate teams but I have a few suggestions.

    Ho-Oh absolutely demolishes this team. It walls Tran, Arceus, and Giratina-O and can pick off all of your members one by one in the sunlight. It's even worse if it has Substitute as it will most likely outspeed Tran and block Toxic, and then you will be forced to sac someone to kill it. Manaphy also sets up on and beats EVERYONE one on one. Arceus can't handle it because Grass Knot does jack damage. Lastly Extremekiller Arceus pretty much 6-0es you if you don't have Toxic Spikes set up.

    -My first suggestion is to make Groudon bulkier. Change your EV spread to 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Impish. This lets you handle Ho-Oh's attacks much easier as well as Extremekillers. (As in you can take two boosted ESpeeds without dying.) Usually, Groudon with Dragon Tail + Toxic Spikes is enough to keep SD Arceus at bay, but you have to set it up quickly.

    -Make Palkia scarfed as j99Ubers suggested. This helps you a bit more against TG Manaphy as well as Mewtwo and Darkrai. Make sure you give it Thunder so it can still hurt Kyogre.

    -I don't know why you are using Grass Arceus. You have enough Kyogre insurance in the form of hazards + Palkia + Giratina-O. I think your Heatran would appreciate a Kyogre lure as well to help it do its job more effectively. You have a spinner, Groudon, and a spinblocker, so Ho-Oh will fit right in over Arceus.

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spe
    -Sacred Fire
    -Brave Bird

    Subroost Ho-Oh is absolutely nasty with all of your hazards support (esp Toxic Spikes) and serves as a nice lure to Kyogre with its powerful Brave Bird. It provides an answer to Darkrai, most CM Arceus, and Scarf Dialga as well.

    (If you really want to keep Arceus, than change Grass Knot to Judgment (more power against Manaphy) and the EV spread to 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Speed Timid. This lets you outspeed Terrakion, Garchomp, Manaphy, Palkia, and a whole host of other useful things. I also think you don't need Flamethrower as a surprise move against Ferro and Forry, you have a spinner and someone that likes then around, Heatran, to use as a safe set up platform, so you could test out Stone Edge to stop Ho-Oh from using you as pure set up bait, or Roar to give you another phazer.)

    Heatran always needs a Fire-type attack. Always. Use Flamethrower and never look back. It is bar better for you to kill Forry and Ferro rather than just Taunt them. Your version of Tran should be able to beat Blissey anyways.

    Lastly, there is something up with your Giratina-O. Its walled by Blissey. That is bad. You have two options here:

    -A: Slap Outrage on Giratina-O over Aura Sphere and change its EV spread to 252 Atk / 216 SpA / 40 Spe with a Lonely Nature. Giratina-O doesn't need the Speed as there are even less targets now that sit in that range. You will benefit from an extra powerful Shadow Sneak and become capable of 2HKOing Bliss with Outrage. Outrage also helps you out a lot against Ho-Oh, as now you actually become capable of KOing it after SR damage.

    -B: Replace Giratina-O with Ghost Arceus:

    Arceus @ Spooky Plate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Calm Mind
    -Focus Blast

    Switch him in after stall has set up the first TS layer. GG. Once hit by Normal Poison, Bliss can't touch Ghost Arceus, who can pretty much wipe stall by itself. It also gives you another check to Extremekiller Arceus. (Focus Blast hits for SE and you're immune to ExtremeSpeed.)

    Which one you pick is based on personal preference, I feel Giratina-O helps you more as a better check to Kyogre and Mewtwo but whatever floats your boat. Good luck with your team.
  7. calze6


    Nov 28, 2009
    I also notice a well played chansey can easily stall out your team. You have no real stallbraker (I mean tran can stall it out) but nothing can actually take it down as long as chansey is smart enough to switch. I think zekrom may be a good option over grass arceus. It can reasonably deal with kyogre and take down chansey (as your arceus is quite offensive). Besides, you have palkia to beat kyogre provided you slap thunder on.
  8. Gates


    Feb 19, 2010
    Putting Rock Blast over Icicle Spear on Cloyster would at least be a step towards helping your Ho-Oh weakness.

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