Life Orb is an option, but really. Even Gyarados. Heatran with Specs, Sunny Day, STAB, and Overheat is about 90% to Gyarados, IIRC.
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Oh, I didn't think it did that much. If it's still a 2hko without the Sun than Life Orb's unnecessary, but if its not, I think it at least deserves a mention.
Edit: It'll 2hko without the sun easily, with Leftovers.
1 Overheat under the sun = 76.9% - 90.49%
2 Overheats under the sun = 115.49% - 135.87%
Without the sun, however, not so much.
1 Overheat with no sun = 51.09% - 30.16%
2 Overheats with no sun = 76.63% - 90.49%
Life Orb is still a passable item for ripping Gyarados singlehandedly. I'm sure there are other situations for it, but the Gyarados example is the one that came to mind first.
Edit: It'll 2hko without the sun easily, with Leftovers.
1 Overheat under the sun = 76.9% - 90.49%
2 Overheats under the sun = 115.49% - 135.87%
Without the sun, however, not so much.
1 Overheat with no sun = 51.09% - 30.16%
2 Overheats with no sun = 76.63% - 90.49%
Life Orb is still a passable item for ripping Gyarados singlehandedly. I'm sure there are other situations for it, but the Gyarados example is the one that came to mind first.
Okay, T-tar can no longer ruin Tangrowth, but coming in on Heatran seems like it ends your death spree, taking out the sun and then increasing its own defenses by 50% while you've potentially wasted your SpA on a few Overheats.
Does life-orb Heatran explosion OHKO T-Tar? If not, we're looking at a Dragon Dance to come in right after you're done.
Also, Explosion seems kinda m00t on the Choice Specs set. You're either going to be locked in on a Fire Attack, unable to do anything but switch out when T-Tar comes in (again, bye bye sun, hello +50% defenses to T-Tar and potentially a dragon dance as you switch out), or forced to continue your much weakened fire attacks against a rock pokemon who will resist it all.
Does life-orb Heatran explosion OHKO T-Tar? If not, we're looking at a Dragon Dance to come in right after you're done.
Also, Explosion seems kinda m00t on the Choice Specs set. You're either going to be locked in on a Fire Attack, unable to do anything but switch out when T-Tar comes in (again, bye bye sun, hello +50% defenses to T-Tar and potentially a dragon dance as you switch out), or forced to continue your much weakened fire attacks against a rock pokemon who will resist it all.
If Tyranitar is coming in after I have used a few Overheats, I don't think the battle is something to worry about, anymore. A "few" Overheats basically means two or three deaths to the other team. Plus, Heatran can then bow out and just keep attacking until dead to prevent Dragon Dances, and it'll have done its job of destruction.
Explosion is simply in case all else fails. It's a last ditch if your set-up didn't work and Heatran has no way to not get pwned. Life Orb just loses too much extra power.
Explosion is simply in case all else fails. It's a last ditch if your set-up didn't work and Heatran has no way to not get pwned. Life Orb just loses too much extra power.
Life orb is only a 13% damage reduction compared to specs... and it boosts Explosion's power by another 30% compared to the Specs. Plus, it makes Fire Blast -> Overheat -> Overheat -> Explosion one of the best killing sprees in the game. :-)
Hmm ... perhaps. I know know it is not a big deal between just 30% and 50%. But, then, factor in everything else ...
Overheat (140) + STAB (1.5) + Specs (1.5) + Flash Fire (1.5) + Sunny Day (1.5) = 708.75
Overheat (140) + STAB (1.5) + Life Orb (1.3) + Flash Fire (1.5) + Sunny Day (1.5) = 614.25
Big drop. But, you do have a point. I think I like the Life Orb idea, and I will go with that. Thank you for your input!
Overheat (140) + STAB (1.5) + Specs (1.5) + Flash Fire (1.5) + Sunny Day (1.5) = 708.75
Overheat (140) + STAB (1.5) + Life Orb (1.3) + Flash Fire (1.5) + Sunny Day (1.5) = 614.25
Big drop. But, you do have a point. I think I like the Life Orb idea, and I will go with that. Thank you for your input!
Also calcs for Life Orb Overheats with sun as ones without it are unnecessary for this discussion.
1 Overheat = 66.58% - 78.53%
2 Overheats = 100.00% - 117.93%
Possibility to not 2hko, but I still think it's warranted as an option. I'm not trying to destroy your sets or anything. I obviously see the pros of Choice Scarf and Specs, but where they (specifically Choice Specs) fall short, Life Orb could be used in their place and is a usable option, imo.
Edit: Didn't see your last post haha.
1 Overheat = 66.58% - 78.53%
2 Overheats = 100.00% - 117.93%
Possibility to not 2hko, but I still think it's warranted as an option. I'm not trying to destroy your sets or anything. I obviously see the pros of Choice Scarf and Specs, but where they (specifically Choice Specs) fall short, Life Orb could be used in their place and is a usable option, imo.
Edit: Didn't see your last post haha.
Would you look at that. 614.25/708.75 == .8666 == 13% drop in damage :-p
It only looks big because you've added so many multipliers. But in the end of the day, all that has happened is a 13% drop. So instead of doing 200% damage to whatever, you're doing 176% damage to it. :-)
Huzzah, finally a reason for me to go out and catch a Heatran. I've been putting off wasting my time on a good-IV'd Heatran until I found an awesome purpose for him... And by the looks of this set, that's what you've given us.
I'll test the set out against random morons on SerebiiWiFiChat after I get a good Heatran and Tangrowth.
The Heatran obviously works well in other scenarios, too. If you predict a Fire Blast on Skarmory, switch to Heatran. If you predict an EQ on Heatran, switch over to the resisting Tangrowth or the immune Skarm.
With good prediction skills, this is a match made in heaven. It's basically GyaraVire with added perks. Two Pokémon that cover each other perfectly. I mean, seriously- Tangrowth is weak to fire and poison, and Heatran is immune, even taking major boosts thanks to one. Everything else Tangrowth is weak to, 'tran resists. And 'Tran's major killer, Ground, is resisted by 'growth.
^I know all of that last paragraph has been stated in one way or another on this thread, I just felt like ranting about how awesome I think this is. After I use this pair in a few battles, I'll come back and let you know how it did.
I'll test the set out against random morons on SerebiiWiFiChat after I get a good Heatran and Tangrowth.
The Heatran obviously works well in other scenarios, too. If you predict a Fire Blast on Skarmory, switch to Heatran. If you predict an EQ on Heatran, switch over to the resisting Tangrowth or the immune Skarm.
With good prediction skills, this is a match made in heaven. It's basically GyaraVire with added perks. Two Pokémon that cover each other perfectly. I mean, seriously- Tangrowth is weak to fire and poison, and Heatran is immune, even taking major boosts thanks to one. Everything else Tangrowth is weak to, 'tran resists. And 'Tran's major killer, Ground, is resisted by 'growth.
^I know all of that last paragraph has been stated in one way or another on this thread, I just felt like ranting about how awesome I think this is. After I use this pair in a few battles, I'll come back and let you know how it did.
People have know about this pair for a while.I would go old school to handle t-tar with tangrowth.Just run sleep powder like people did with eggy and unlike eggy this thing can switch on t-tar or will make t-tar think twice about switching in and running into a leaf storm,energy ball, or grass knot too.
Also I am waiting somebody to come with amazing Poliwrath combo.
Also I am waiting somebody to come with amazing Poliwrath combo.
Says right in the first post. Read before fail.
My bad i searched for morning sun as 1 word. Also, i think you should have a little less "smug asshole" with your morning bowl of cereal.
Sounds like someone's trying to bait me. Too bad I'm immune to your pitiful attempts.
Anyway, I got a great Tangela first try (thank god- I would kill myself if I had to go through that for too much time) and my friend has lent me his good Heatran, so I'll be trying this out ASAP.
The first theoretical team I was satisfied about contained both of these Pokemon, because they cover each others' backs so well. However, I certainly didn't think of using this. My only qualm is that the title of this topic made me not want to read it, because I hate made-up names.
That said, both of these things are goddamn awesome.
That said, both of these things are goddamn awesome.
Haha, sorry, after writing this for over an hour and a half and researching a huge amount of information, I really needed some cheap humor to entertain me. I figured a cheesy name would suffice!
I am glad to see everyone responding to this! I guess Life Orb / Choice Specs is really up to the user, as both have huge advantages and disadvantages. Here is a list for you all in terms of how well they cover each other.
Tangrowth Weaknesses:
Bug, Fire, Flying, Ice, Poison
Heatran Resistances:
Bug (4x), Dark, Dragon, Flying, Ghost, Grass, Normal, Ice (4x), Psychic, Steel
Heatran Immunities:
Fire, Poison
Heatran Weaknesses:
Fighting, Ground, Water
Tangrowth Resistances:
Electric, Grass, Ground, Water
In other words, the only super-effective attack against the team not resisted by the other member s a fighting-type move. Therefore, pairing this team up with Gengar or Dusknoir can add even more to its effectiveness. On top of all of that, they both have excellent defenses to take advantage of their resistances. Tangrowth's resistance is to ground, especially, is a huge bonus because most ground attacks -- Earthquake, specifically -- are physically-based, lending themselves to Tangrowth's enormous defense as opposed to his below average special defense. Physical water attacks, too, are easily predicted, especially with the large amount of Gyarados that Heatran will inevitably draw out.
I am glad to see everyone responding to this! I guess Life Orb / Choice Specs is really up to the user, as both have huge advantages and disadvantages. Here is a list for you all in terms of how well they cover each other.
Tangrowth Weaknesses:
Bug, Fire, Flying, Ice, Poison
Heatran Resistances:
Bug (4x), Dark, Dragon, Flying, Ghost, Grass, Normal, Ice (4x), Psychic, Steel
Heatran Immunities:
Fire, Poison
Heatran Weaknesses:
Fighting, Ground, Water
Tangrowth Resistances:
Electric, Grass, Ground, Water
In other words, the only super-effective attack against the team not resisted by the other member s a fighting-type move. Therefore, pairing this team up with Gengar or Dusknoir can add even more to its effectiveness. On top of all of that, they both have excellent defenses to take advantage of their resistances. Tangrowth's resistance is to ground, especially, is a huge bonus because most ground attacks -- Earthquake, specifically -- are physically-based, lending themselves to Tangrowth's enormous defense as opposed to his below average special defense. Physical water attacks, too, are easily predicted, especially with the large amount of Gyarados that Heatran will inevitably draw out.
I was lol'ing at a Gyarados with your 'growth set. It used EQ a few times after it DD'd twice, and I easily took the hits with Tangrowth, taking something like 1/12 damage each EQ, and easily 3HKO'd with Grass Knot. Sadly, I didn't get a chance to test the GrowthTran combo, since I mispredicted early on and Heatran got walloped by an EQ long before I even sent out 'growth.
Heh, glad to see it is working out for you guys!
It sounds like a good idea. I might try it.
However, when you posted that with Sun Tangrowth is faster than everything not named Electrode, Deoxys or Ninjask, you appear to forget that other Chlorophyll users get the boost to. For example, Jumpluff is much faster than Tangrowth under sun. Just wanted to point that out.
However, when you posted that with Sun Tangrowth is faster than everything not named Electrode, Deoxys or Ninjask, you appear to forget that other Chlorophyll users get the boost to. For example, Jumpluff is much faster than Tangrowth under sun. Just wanted to point that out.
Find a good Morning Sun Tangela on WiFi?
The only thing about this combo that worries me is Morning Sun Tangela's availability. I have XD, but I doubt I'm willing to take the extreme process of getting a good one. First of all, you need a good nature/IVs. AND you might get Leaf Guard after Pal Parking over and evolving it into Tangrowth. AND you can even see the nature of a Pokemon on XD until you almost completely purify it. AND you don't have a Master Ball on you when you first meet Shadow Tangela, so it must be caught normally.
For those who don't have XD, that is a MUCH, MUCH longer process then catching a good Cresselia.
For Competitor though, this looks great.
Can morning sun be bred?
A slight error, but quite important nonetheless. A Tangrowth actually needs 252 EVs in Speed to reach 199 without a +Speed nature.
This was exactly what was confusing me about this topic when I read the first post, I just kept my mouth shut as I assumed I was missing something key. After reading the rest of the posts, I still can't figure out what it is.
Oh, you're right. With the given EVs, mine's 140 with the given EVs, although I think my speed IV is only 25+.