Jesus doon't want me for a Sunbeam (#23 on PO)

Jesus don't want me for a Sunbeam
Standard OU Sunny Day

. Introduction .


Generation V has definitely shaken up the metagame we once knew, with weather teams dominating the standard competition from the very beginning. Rain Dance, sandstorm and hail teams have functioned well in the OU tier for some time, while Sunny Day teams tended to linger in the background due to their lack of proficient sweepers and overall higher difficulty of use. A number of updates this generation have seen Sunny Day teams come out of the shadows, namely Ninetales’ blessing with Drought, a host of Chlorophyll sweepers being introduced (including Venusaur) and incredible improvements to the overlooked move, Growth.

Despite these improvements, Sunny Day teams still face many issues, such as type coverage by sweepers and weaknesses to Stealth Rock and common types. While the common types seen on sun-based teams (fire and grass) offer some excellent synergy, a point often argued in favour of sun teams, simple prediction can often destroy an intended defensive core. Furthermore, until a fire/grass type with Chlorophyll is introduced, the Sunny Day trainer must deal with a split between boosted speed and boosted STAB, unlike rain-based teams.

Overall then, Sunny Day teams still have their work cut out for them, and hence are still quite challenging in terms of construction and use. This challenge, however, is what drives myself and undoubtedly a lot of others to keep pushing and testing teams in order to assemble a successful squad. In its current format, this team has managed to peak at #99 on the Smogon PO server before the last reset, and currently peaked at #12 (1514) on the Pokemon Online main server under the alias justtesting..




. Team Building .

As with pretty much every Sunny Day team this generation, I started out with Ninetales to bring permanent sunshine… obvious choice is obvious. I figured I would use Ninetales in the lead position to get the sun into play immediately, and fashioned a set that focused on leading (explored later).


The next Pokemon would be an offensive sun abuser, with Venusaur coming to mind immediately. Venusaur is probably the most versatile Chlorophyll sweeper thanks to its decent natural bulk, speed compared to the ‘traditional’ Chlorophyll Pokemon, typing, movepool and access to Growth. Venusaur's position on the team was never in question, rather, I just needed to decide on which set I would settle for.


For the next Pokemon, I started thinking about the 'glue' which would hold the team together.


*TO BE COMPLETED*




. Team Analysis .​


“A good sacrifice is one that is not necessarily sound but leaves your opponent dazed and confused”

A. The lead



Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch


Overview.
Endeavor Infernape catches a lot of players off guard, and carries out a lot of crucial roles within the team. Firstly, Infernape sets up Stealth Rock, which is important for helping the sweepers push through teams with less hassle, breaking Focus Sash et cetera. Funnily enough, this set has proven most valuable in taking out lead Politoed, who is often rendered useless once Stealth Rock is on the field, and they are reduced to 6% health with Leftovers factored in.

Setting up Stealth Rock is the priority, and when facing a slower lead Endeavor practically ensures a KO. Should I be facing a faster lead and I am already down to my sash, I can keep Infernape as a useful death fodder for later in the game. If the opponent isn’t packing entry hazards of their own, a 1HP Infernape can still be a dangerous threat to one of their team members should I be able to get him in safely.

Moveset.
  • Endeavour: One of the main reasons for choosing Infernape was for his ability to trap Politoed and potentially remove it from the game with a combination of Stealth Rock and Endeavour; turn one, ideally, would see Infernape set up Stealth Rock while Politoed went for the water move to KO. Turn two would then have Infernape Endeavour Politoed so that on its next switch, Stealth Rock would KO it and Ninetales would have no weather opposition. Of course, this is the ideal situation, but it has worked more often than not.
  • Stealth Rock: Obviously just to get some more damage on opponents to help sweeping. Particularly important for Venusaur.
  • Close Combat: Strong STAB, which can get some good damage on most things. Infernape's primary objective is to get Stealth Rock up, and then usually Endeavour, so this attacking move isn't used too much. Importantly, however, this allows me to threaten Tyranitar, another pain for Ninetales.
  • Mach Punch: Overheat is an option as listed on the Smogon site, but the priority attack has saved me a lot. In fact, Endeavour + Mach Punch has prevented my team from being swept on a number of occasions.

Pros.
✓ Less anticipated compared to the standard lead set
✓ Reasonably reliable for getting Stealth Rock into play
✓ STAB priority
✓ Can eliminate Politoed, and forces Tyranitar out

Cons.
x Opponents rarely fall for the same trick twice – becomes predictable
x Often lost early
x Walled entirely by ghost-types

Other considerations.
This set could be specially-oriented, which would do a lot more damage to the likes of Hippowdon, who really wrecks this set and is really the weather lead who gives me the most trouble. The problem here is a lack of reliability and durability (of Focus Blast and Overheat, respectively), and the physical set has proven itself worthy again and again. Donphan can run a similar type of set thanks to Sturdy and Custap Berry, but Infernape's natural speed has proven to be far more useful.




“Follow your heart, but be quiet for a while first. Ask questions, then feel the answer. Learn to trust your heart.”

B. The heart


Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SDef / 160 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Disable
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Flamethrower


Overview.
Ninetales has shot up from NU/UU into the standard metagame for one reason: Drought. Generation V has sparked new interest in the Sunny Day mechanic, with Ninetales arguably being at the forefront of this renaissance. Despite being a handy Pokemon for sun-based teams, Ninetales as an individual Pokemon still struggles in the higher tiers for all the reasons that it always has: average stats offensively, and poor typing and stats defensively. On top of this, Ninetales is greatly disadvantaged when it comes to facing off against opposing weather Pokemon, who will get their weather up over the sun thanks to their lower speed (unless you opt for an Iron Ball).

There are a number of ways to play Ninetales, and I have opted for a defensive support role. The set comes from when I was using Ninetales as a lead, trying to fight off Politoed and Tyranitar as best as I could with Ninetales itself.

Moveset.
  • Substitute: Substitute is purely for scouting and works well in tandem with Disable. A sub allows Ninetales to avoid status, or scout the moves of a slower opponent and potentially disable that move on the next turn.
  • Disable: Disable is probably one of the few if not only niche supportive moves that Ninetales gets to play with. As mentioned, Substitute and Disable can be used together to scout dangerous moves, and prevent their use in a sort of TormentTran manor. The main purposes of this were to scout and disable Politoed’s water attacks, and Tyranitar’s Stone Edge. This would often open the opportunity to put up another sub and attempt to stall with Toxic.
  • Toxic: I found that Ninetales tends to lack the power to effectively use coverage moves outside of it’s boosted STAB, while Toxic stalling may be possible with reasonably fast subs and Disable on offer. Ninetales, using the three moves thus mentioned, has been able to stall out opposing Politoed and even Dragon Dance Gyarados and Dragonite; a small tribute to the effectiveness of the set when played smartly.
  • Flamethrower: Flamethrower offers some straight up offensive power, and hits steel-types who are immune to Toxic. I used to use Fire Spin to trap Pokemon so that they would incur more Toxic damage, however it is usually more useful to just hit for greater damage with the more powerful attack.

Pros.
✓ Brings permanent sun which is vital for the team to function
✓ Decent speed and special bulk
✓ Potential to cripple and stall opponents, and soften Pokemon for sweepers

Cons.
x Poor typing for a defensively-oriented Pokemon
x Comparatively poor support movepool outside of Disable
x Lacks reliable recovery; worn down much faster than opposing perma-weather Pokemon

Other considerations.
Ninetales the Pokemon cannot be substituted due to Drought. However, a lot of players like to run offensive sets for potential sweeps. I have always preferred the bulkier and stallish variants however, formerly running Fire Spin over Flamethrower to trap Pokemon and attempt to stall them out. Otherwise, nothing else really springs to mind.




“Adapt or perish, now as ever, is nature's inexorable imperative.”

C. The Chlorophyll sweeper


Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Growth
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Energy Ball / SolarBeam


Overview.
Venusaur ended its generation IV stint as the king of UU, and with the advent of Dream World abilities, has proven its worth in the OU metagame. With 80 base speed, dual STAB and access to the vastly improved Growth, Venusaur simply outclasses the traditional Chlorophyll sweepers of Tangrowth and Exeggutor. As a sweeper then, Venusaur has a lot of excellent characteristics; further to this, the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes and a small handfull of useful resistances makes Venusaur a great Pokemon all round.

Moveset.
  • Growth: Growth received a massive boost this generation, becoming a free Swords Dance and Nasty Plot under the sun. This then adds unpredictability to the sweeper, and opens a great number of options for sweeping potential. Ultimately, this move is what makes Venusaur a potent offensive threat given the one turn required to set up.
  • Sludge Bomb: Poison may not hit many things super-effectively in OU, however by the same token it hits a lot of Pokemon for neutral damage. Sludge Bomb is thus chosen for a strong secondary STAB used to clean up whatever it can.
  • Hidden Power Fire: Obvious choice for coverage here, HP Fire hits the steel-types who resist Venusaur's STAB moves.
  • Energy Ball / Solarbeam: Sadly, Giga Drain is not legal with the Dream World ability. Using Giga Drain, Venusaur can become an almost unstoppable force, outgunning even the likes of Bilssey. In any case, with that in mind, Energy Ball is used for another STAB to take out the bulky waters and rock- and ground-types in the tier. Not much else to say really... Solarbeam is optional as it does hit very hard, however one must have dealt with opposing weather Pokemon first before attempting to use it. I have been using Solarbeam more recently, however it is a more risky option.

Pros.
✓ Great balanced statistics, particularly speed and SAtk
✓ Ability to absorb Toxic Spikes
✓ Access to Growth
✓ Vast movepool - unpredictability

Cons.
x Poison-typing removes desired ground resist
x Completely walled by Heatran
x Cannot learn Giga Drain, which allows for Life Orb use

Other considerations.
Aside from choosing a completely different Chlorophyll sweeper, the other options for Venusaur go as follows: mixed and physical. Access to Power Whip and Earthquake helps somewhat with the likes of Blissey and Heatran, however the overall power of the set is reduced, and Heatran spends most of its time nowadays playing Danny Deckchair in the sky. Overall, the special set is much more focused and more reliable, and simply means I need to focus on the set's more easily recognised weaknesses with other team members.




“There is need of variety in sex, but not in love.”

D. The mixed sweeper


Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect / Cheer Up


Overview.
Blaziken is yet another full-time UU resident from generation IV to be blessed in the Dream World with Speed Boost. Once unpredictable, now infamous, Blaziken can single-handedly rip an entire team apart with ease. Hi-Jump Kick is now an immensely powerful move, complimenting Blaziken's stunning attack stat. Blaziken initially started out as a Swords Dancing sweeper, capable of breaking through even the toughest of physical walls thanks to sun-boosted STAB. However, the set up is sometimes a bit of a risk, and I honestly wanted to try something different. This set, then, is a mixed stall-breaker based on MixApe. Even without stat-boosting (besides speed), this Blaziken can tear holes through sandstorm teams which is imperative.

Overall, Blaziken is that Pokemon who tends to be an end-gamer and late sweeper - he tends to be released late in the game when all else has failed, or the opening is perfect.

Moveset.
  • Hi-Jump Kick: Pretty sure you can all guess who this is for. Stall-breaking is not stall-breaking without a physical (preferably fighting) attack to slap Blissey (or is it Chansey now?) right in the egg. What's more, Tyranitar is forced out, and Heatran stands no chance. In short, Hi-Jump Kick picks off the niggling threats to the team.
  • Fire Blast: Base 120, weather-boosted STAB, backed by Life Orb. Not too much in the tier likes switching in nor facing this attack. Moreover, this attack breaks down the infamous SkarmBliss combo in one foul swoop.
  • Hidden Power Ice: Gliscor, Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp... huge threats in the tier, taken out by a simple Hidden Power. This Hidden Power is simply there to take out the common dragons with little fuss, as well as Gliscor without having to rely on the shaky accuracy of Fire Blast.
  • Protect / Cheer Up: Protect ensures a free Speed Boost - should the opponent switch out, in ensures two. There is no need to explain this. Cheer Up is optional, as it makes Blaziken an even more powerful mixed sweeper. However, the coverage and power of this set is generally sufficient not to necessitate the boost nor the risk.

Pros.
✓ Speed Boost
✓ Dual STAB
✓ Excellent offensive stats on both sides of the spectrum
✓ Less expected than purely physical sets
✓ Can single-handedly defeat sandstorm and hail teams from the mid-game

Cons.
x Unable to break through bulky waters, particularly Burungeru

Optional changes.
Not much more to discuss here. The only change that I have tested has been to use Excadrill in this place as a spinner to support Ulgamoth, and to add necessary type resists to the team. However, the pure sweeping power of Blaziken is too good to pass up, hence rather than taking a defensive route, the team pushes forward offensively.




“Butterflies are self propelled flowers.”

E. The special sweeper


Volcarona (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Butterfly Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Morning Sun


Overview.
Blessed with great offensive stats, and arguably one of if not the best stat-boosting move in the game, Volcarona is a fearsome sweeper. Bug/Fire typing isn't too bad, sans the dreadful weakness to Stealth Rock. However, given the chance to switch in and set up, Volcarona can set up and end a game with ease. I simply tested this Pokemon to see just how powerful it was, and it hasn't been out of the team much since (sometimes trading places with Heatran).

As with Venusaur, Volcarona can come in on fighting attacks targeted at Sazandora, as well as ice- and bug-type moves.

Moveset.
  • Butterfly Dance: Calm Mind plus a speed boost. This is the most incredible setup move. No need to explain this one I hope.
  • Flamethrower: STAB coming off 135 SAtk with a weather boost, Flamethrower is all that is needed as opposed to Fire Blast. After getting to +1 or higher, there really is no need to use Fire Blast over Flamethrower and risk a potentially costly miss.
  • Bug Buzz: Bug Buzz is for secondary STAB, hitting the likes of bulky waters hard. The coverage with these two moves is far from perfect though, with the likes of Heatran once again walling the set. However, with one or two SDef boosts, Heatran and friends can't really do much damage back barring a crit. Hidden Power Rock could be an option here, as this hits the flying/dragon-types hard, does neutral damage to Heatran, and hits opposing fire-types too. Most water Pokemon are neutral or hit with special attacks, which tend not to do too much damage, so I can probably take hits from them and boost enough to make the un-STAB HP Rock KO.
  • Morning Sun: A lot of players tend to run HP Rock or Ground in this slot for far better coverage. Since I'm not running a spinner however, I find Morning Sun to be far more useful if not necessary for survival. Furthermore, access to a healing move means I can usually get to +3 or more relatively easily against nearly any special attacker, water-type or not.

Pros.
✓ Dual STAB
✓ Access to one of the best stat-boosting moves in the game
✓ Excellent stats for a special sweeper, with good special bulk
✓ Access to a recovery move

Cons.
x 4x Stealth Rock weakness
x Physical frailty

Optional changes.
Heatran and Shandera have been used on earlier Sunny Day teams, but neither of them offered the "sweepabiliy" I decided I wanted (instead offering useful resists). Shandera in particular was incredible for trapping Hippowdon and removing it from the game, however Shadow Tag is no longer a viable option, and honestly, it was a dirty ploy.

The main potential change, which has been touched on, is the inclusion of Hidden Power Rock over Bug Buzz. It is significantly less powerful, however it does help to deal with a number of threats more easily.




“Night is the blotting paper for many sorrows.”

F. The shadow


Sazandora (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- U-turn
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Dark Pulse


Overview.
Scarf Sazandora became rather popular at the beginning of the generation V metagame, but seems to have lost some recognition as time has gone by. In need of a ground-type resist or immunity, I immediately tried out Sazandora due to its other resistances and immunities such as fire-, water-, dark- and psychic-types. In fact, Sazandora has rather good synergy with Venusaur and Volcarona, luring fighting attacks (usually entry for Venusaur), as well as ice- and bug-types which can be taken by the fire bug. Overall, Sazandora is the scout and glue of the team, aimed at picking off threats throughout the game.

Moveset.
  • U-Turn: Purely for early game scouting.
  • Draco Meteor: This is Sazandora's revenge-killing weapon, which usually gets spammed later on in the match. Everyone knows how powerful Draco Meteor is.
  • Focus Blast: Mostly for Heatran, and to hie steels if needed. I was running Earth Power initially, however as mentioned Heatran is often found on a balloon which makes the move somewhat redundant - Focus Blast hits it regardless.
  • Dark Pulse: Simply for secondary STAB, allowing me to hit psychics and ghosts super effectively. It's always nice to have a STAB super effective move against Reuniclus, for example.

Pros.
✓ Vast movepool
✓ Decent revenge killer
✓ Baits certain attack types to allow powerful sweepers to enter.

Cons.
x Choiced, which can help opponents set up
x Slower than ScarfChomp

Other considerations.
There are lots of options for this Pokemon and this slot in general. For Sazandora itself, I am tossing up trying an Expert Belt to feign a scarf, which can help blow holes in teams. Other than that, I am considering a bulky supportive set, to more slowly whittle-down teams.

As for other Pokemon, I could look at spinners, screeners, or just tanks in general to offer more defensive synergy with the team. Sazandora's scouting abilities, though, and offensive presence, have proven very useful to this point.



. Concluding thoughts .

So that is the team, and it has clawed its way up the PO ladder with relative ease. I partly attribute this to the fact that a lot of the opponents who I have faced haven't really been all that challenging, although I have taken out a number of higher ranked players along the way.

As for team weaknesses, you have probably spotted a few already. The first glaring weakness is to flying-type moves, where I have no resists and 4 weaknesses. Thankfully, flying-type moves are sort of rare, and I tend to sac the likes of Ninetales (once I have dealt with other weather Pokemon) to get a safe switch in. Secondly, I have no rock-type resists, again meaning I tend to take heavy damage on switching in. My response to this however is that this is an offensive team, and I am hence used to foddering Pokemon to allow one of the other stat boosters to come in and commence a sweep.

Stealth Rock is a pain for this team, particularly for Ninetales who sometimes needs to switch in a lot, and Volcarona, who has a 4x weakness. However, putting a spinner in place often hurts the balance of the team, as the three offensive Pokemon are great at what they do (and ensure offensive pressure), Infernape has proven its worth time and time again, Ninetales is a necessity, and Sazandora's synergy, scouting, and added offence are greatly appreciated.

Finally, this team is incredibly susceptible to set-up sweepers. Opposing Blaziken and Volcarona rip this team apart, and if I see a Rock Polish Terrakion, I might as well quit. There is a serious lack of phazing/tanking/priority on this team, which is why I try to muscle through as quickly as I can. For this reason however, the likes of Arcanine stick out as potential inclusions in the team (I'd love to fit Arcanine in there somewhere, but alas I don't have space right now).

I will continue to work on this team, seeing if I can address some of the above issues and tighten up the synergy some more. I'd like to re-incorporate some rock- and ground-types into the team at some point, potentially adding a permanent spinner/supportive Pokemon to the team. Examples include offensive Pokemon such as Terrakion and Rhyperior, or defensive Pokemon such as a dual-screen, spinning Claydol.
 
Wow, I must say, you have done a very nice job on this and I must congratulate you on your work efforts!
Your sets are interesting and some of them are different, but they are good and they suite the team.
Although, if the sun goes down, so does your team. Keep that in mind. I would personally have another weather 'mon counter. Such as: Gliscor. To completely wall almost all sweepers on sandstorm teams as well as having a nice core in your team.
It's really just a better idea to have Sazandora to be specially attacking. You set is trying to do just too much. Add in Scizor or perhaps another good steel type scout (Jirachi maybe) instead and just leave Sazan to have a set of possibly:
-Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Fire Blast
-Surf


Aside from counters, and if you are aware of the dangerously high possibility of facing another weather team and with no changes, once that Ninetales goes down, you are very likely to meet a disastrous defeat.
GL with your changes, and if you want any help just feel free to VM/PM me!
 
I apologize, but I don't have the most time right now, so this rate will be somewhat cvoncise. I will get on later when I can and do a fullone.

Firstly, I think it is far less important for your team that you get damage off with your lead than if you manage to keep stealth rocks off the field. As you intend to use Ninetales in a defensive sense, the existence of stealth rock with absolutely do away with much of any chance for that. I'd suggest a faster lead such as maybe deoxys-S or a Teasing Heart lead that can ensure your team is not faced with Stealth Rocks in the early game. Normally I wouldn't advise this, as mid-game rocks have become more common with the advent of Nattorei, but as I can see, your team is highly fire-oriented, so Nattorei will have an extremely tough time getting rocks up on you if you play around it well. Secondly, IF you do decide to value the nonexistence of rocks, you should switch out Sazandora for a scarf Dugtrio, who is capable of trapping and KOing many threats on a sand team, the bane of yours, including the ever-so-common Tyranitar. Thirdly, you should run a balloon on your Ninetales, as the goal of the bulky set is to take the least amount of damage as possible, and lefties recovery does not do enough to offset the massive damage Ninetales will receive as a result of its terrible defenses. This would also add a ground immunity to your team that you could use to play mindgames with your opponent. I hope I was at least marginally helpful. Please try some of my suggestions out, I feel they will likely benefit you.
 
This RMT's format brought a tear to my eye :'). And the team is simply fantastic too, I love your use of an Infernape antilead and may try it out myself. This RMT's inventiveness has taught me a lot about Sun, a playstyle I thought I knew, and I commend you for that.

Essentially, everything I would suggest changing you have good reasons not to alter. The one issue I see is Volcarona. Between Blaziken and Venusaur you have huge sweeping potential without her, and though she is undoubtedly very useful, it feels to me like you could use something less SR weak and with better coverage in its place, given your lack of a spinner and somewhat forced use of Morning Sun. The problem of course is that I do not know what this should be, as given the nature of your team nothing else seems to fit. I'm afraid all the advice that I can give you is that Volcarona seems to have the least defined role in your team, and that you should consider replacing it with something that can deal with your weaknesses as well as have sweeping potential. I wish you the best with this great team, however, and look forward to seeing what you make of my thoughts.
 
This is a good RMT. :)
I'd suggest you to switch Nape for Magic Mirror Espeon as it bounces hazards without wasting a moveslot and Morning Sun + Drought raises its survivability.

Your ChloroSaur lacks coverage. Run mixed set to take the advantage of Growth boosts. I'm not sure how much Sludge Bomb can do, use EQ instead.

Fire Spin sucks. That is it.
Protect is more useful than Work Up for Blaziken, IMO.
 
Your ChloroSaur lacks coverage. Run mixed set to take the advantage of Growth boosts. I'm not sure how much Sludge Bomb can do, use EQ instead.
Sludge Bomb is actually providing far better coverage than EQ would - it allows Venu to beat Salamence, Latio/as and Dragonite rather than Heatran and Chandelure. Latios in particular is far more common than Heatran and Chandelure combined (the second of which is pretty rare) so it is worth using Sludge Bomb as long as the rest of your team can beat the ugly volcano thing, especially as many Trans will now be running a Balloon. Also, only using special hits means you do not fear a burn from Jellicent in particular, who becomes setup fodder, though you lose out on beating Blissey.
 
^
You're right, man! Silly me for being stereotypical, as the only Poison-type move I remember someone used in this game is Toxic .__.
 
does Iron Fist boost Mach Punch? if so, replace that with Blaze on your 'Nape.

I'm wondering if a specially based lead might work better for you since you're having so much trouble with Hippowdon... something like Stealth Rock/Fire Blast/Grass Knot/Vacuum Wave? Grass Knot still does a number on Politoed and you keep your precious priority..

PS. I absolutely love the format and overall presentation of this RMT, excellent work.
 
does Iron Fist boost Mach Punch? if so, replace that with Blaze on your 'Nape.
If only he could, Stealth Rock is a gen 4 TM, while Iron Fist is a Dream World ability. So they are illegal together.
Also Endeavor is a gen 4 move tutor attack and therefor also illegal with Iron Fist.
 
I don't play that much OU right now, but the fact that you have a suicide Stealth Rock Pokemon and no Ghost bugs me. How do you work against Pokemon with Rapid Spin?

And yeah, you need more Stealth Rock protection yourself, especially with Volcarona and Ninetales's weakness.
 
This is a pretty mean team. I played against it twice a few nights ago, I think on GARAGARAA. Beat you the first time, but got whooped the second.
 
Just noticed Black Sludge on Venu - would advise Lefties instead so you don't give a Trick user another weapon to hit a different member of your team with.

@ Lucario: Imo the lack of a ghost isn't too important, as ideally spinners shouldn't be getting that free turn from anyone but Tales, who won't be coming in much unless to be sacced or reset the weather, and given no weather setters spin, it's less of an issue. I'm with you to some extent on the Volcarona with no spinner issue though.
 
Omg awesome format :D
Anyway, using over half your team on fire type, you really should use a Rapid Spinner, as once SR is set up, spikes is usually the next thing that might come. Donphan comes to mind simply becuase he wont have a water weakness in the sun
 
This RMT's format brought a tear to my eye :'). And the team is simply fantastic too, I love your use of an Infernape antilead and may try it out myself. This RMT's inventiveness has taught me a lot about Sun, a playstyle I thought I knew, and I commend you for that.
Thanks :D I stole the format from my last UU RMT haha.

Admittedly, the Infernape anti-lead hit its peak when Drizzle+Swift Swim were legal together, as Politoed was everywhere. However, his usefulness has not dwindled too much, taking out the likes of ScarfChomp and DD Gyarados leads haha.

Essentially, everything I would suggest changing you have good reasons not to alter. The one issue I see is Volcarona. Between Blaziken and Venusaur you have huge sweeping potential without her, and though she is undoubtedly very useful, it feels to me like you could use something less SR weak and with better coverage in its place, given your lack of a spinner and somewhat forced use of Morning Sun. The problem of course is that I do not know what this should be, as given the nature of your team nothing else seems to fit.
I am with you 100% on this, and this may be where I find myself using the likes of RP Terrakion or something, or of course a defensive Pokemon. My dilemma at the moment is this: with Volcarona on the team, it would be nice to pack a spinner; that said, Volcarona is probably the Pokemon I would prefer to switch out the most, making a spinner less necessary. It is just such a hard move to make, given the number of sweeps that Pokemon has made haha.

Secondly, IF you do decide to value the nonexistence of rocks, you should switch out Sazandora for a scarf Dugtrio, who is capable of trapping and KOing many threats on a sand team, the bane of yours, including the ever-so-common Tyranitar.
I've used Dugtrio in earlier teams, and honestly, I found it to be a bit lacklustre. Earthquake is not assured of a KO, which can make Dugtrio a bit useless in this regard. The set that worked best for me was something like Focus Sash + Reversal... but yeah I just never really felt 100% confident in its capabilities.

Thirdly, you should run a balloon on your Ninetales, as the goal of the bulky set is to take the least amount of damage as possible, and lefties recovery does not do enough to offset the massive damage Ninetales will receive as a result of its terrible defenses. This would also add a ground immunity to your team that you could use to play mindgames with your opponent.
True, but a balloon makes Substitute + Disable useless, as the subs kill me off quicker than anything else haha.

(Why Ninetales doesn't have Morning Sun is beyond me)

Although, if the sun goes down, so does your team. Keep that in mind. I would personally have another weather 'mon counter. Such as: Gliscor. To completely wall almost all sweepers on sandstorm teams as well as having a nice core in your team.
Not necessarily haha. Scarf Sazandora, and two Pokemon who can boost their speed to insane levels means this team has some fight left in it without the sun. It's not as easy, I'm honest, but it's not the end of the world.

It's really just a better idea to have Sazandora to be specially attacking. You set is trying to do just too much. Add in Scizor or perhaps another good steel type scout (Jirachi maybe) instead and just leave Sazan to have a set of possibly:
-Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Fire Blast
-Surf
Just a couple of things on this: Firstly, Surf gets numbed in the sun, so I'm a bit against using it. Secondly, I ran Flamethrower on Saz for a long time to take out steels and such, but there are enough fire-type moves on the team to reduce its necessity. Dark Pulse is mostly to have a super-effective hit on ghosts and psychics, to take them out without having to rely on Draco (ie. the setup fodder move).

That said, U-Turn is great for early in the game when I often come in on Hippowdon to scare it away. In rematches, it allows me to play mind games with the opponent who might predict the scouting move and stay in. Switch advantage is very important for this team.

This is a good RMT. :)
I'd suggest you to switch Nape for Magic Mirror Espeon as it bounces hazards without wasting a moveslot and Morning Sun + Drought raises its survivability.
Two problems: Frailty (although dual screen can fix this some) and the fact that I am relying on an opponent to run hazards haha. The other thing is that it does not counter Politoed in such a cool way as Infernape. As mentioned, the Endeavour lead leaves so many players in such a shitty position that it is sometimes hilarious.

Your ChloroSaur lacks coverage. Run mixed set to take the advantage of Growth boosts. I'm not sure how much Sludge Bomb can do, use EQ instead.
Sludge Bomb is actually providing far better coverage than EQ would - it allows Venu to beat Salamence, Latio/as and Dragonite rather than Heatran and Chandelure. Latios in particular is far more common than Heatran and Chandelure combined (the second of which is pretty rare) so it is worth using Sludge Bomb as long as the rest of your team can beat the ugly volcano thing, especially as many Trans will now be running a Balloon. Also, only using special hits means you do not fear a burn from Jellicent in particular, who becomes setup fodder, though you lose out on beating Blissey.
Perfectly put, Benlisted. Cheers for that haha.

Fire Spin sucks. That is it.
Haha. Yeah, but it was lulzy. I used to stall out Blisseys because they couldn't switch to activate Natural Cure lol. That was used in a time when I tried to beat Politoed one-on-one as a lead, too.

Protect is more useful than Work Up for Blaziken, IMO.
True.

I'm wondering if a specially based lead might work better for you since you're having so much trouble with Hippowdon... something like Stealth Rock/Fire Blast/Grass Knot/Vacuum Wave? Grass Knot still does a number on Politoed and you keep your precious priority..
That's a pretty sick idea, although I'd probably still want to keep Endeavour haha. However SR/Endeavour/Grass Knot/Vacuum Wave could be fun... thanks for the idea :D

I'll hopefully test it haha.

This is a pretty mean team. I played against it twice a few nights ago, I think on GARAGARAA. Beat you the first time, but got whooped the second.
GGs ;)

@ Lucario: Imo the lack of a ghost isn't too important, as ideally spinners shouldn't be getting that free turn from anyone but Tales, who won't be coming in much unless to be sacced or reset the weather, and given no weather setters spin, it's less of an issue. I'm with you to some extent on the Volcarona with no spinner issue though.
Again, thanks. I guess I refer you all to my conundrum I stated earlier with the whole Volcarona/spinner issue.

Anyway, using over half your team on fire type, you really should use a Rapid Spinner, as once SR is set up, spikes is usually the next thing that might come. Donphan comes to mind simply becuase he wont have a water weakness in the sun
Indeed a lot of the team is fire, however Blaziken takes neutral so doesn't count :P

I have tested Donphan before, and he may get another whirl. I recently tried my Claydol idea and it failed miserably. At least Donphan has some nice attacking options to add to the team.

Thank you all for your feedback, and kind praise for the format (which took me ages due to my laziness). The team recently peaked at #13 on the PO server, before playing at 3am made me make some terrible misplays against complete unknowns, and I lost the plot a little haha. Volcarona is looking sketchy now, so I'll see what I can bring myself to switch her :S
 
Hi,

I really like some aspects of this team but there are some which I see lacking.

1. I like how your Infernape is able to counter other weathers. It is really a well thought out set IMO. If only Infernape got reistance to SS that would be the perfect weather killer.

2. I really like your Blaziken set aswell, but I see both Protect and Cheer Up being necessary in order for it to achieve maximum potential.

3. I'm almost positive Venusaur learnt Giga Drain O_O. I remember facing a Venusaur with GD so I dn't know...

4. If I were to switch anyhing out of your team to fix it I would say Bulky Gyara > Sazandora. Same immunity to Ground and a lot of the same resistances (water, fire)

Also I think Ulgamoth needs to be changed because you really have to many weak to water. Maybe try a Scizor or something? Something that is weak to fire that other's in your team can switch in and abuse.

Thats just my 2 cents though and in the end its up to you, but I really like some of these sets!

GL


EDIT : I think I found something better for you as a lead.

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly

- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Superpower

Same concept, but this doesn't take damage from hail or sandstorm. can set up rocks and can run endeavor + priority. Superpower is for TTar, the other weather Pokemon can be Endeavor'ed down. Also helps with your Hippo troubles.
 
Thanks :D I stole the format from my last UU RMT haha.

Admittedly, the Infernape anti-lead hit its peak when Drizzle+Swift Swim were legal together, as Politoed was everywhere. However, his usefulness has not dwindled too much, taking out the likes of ScarfChomp and DD Gyarados leads haha.


I am with you 100% on this, and this may be where I find myself using the likes of RP Terrakion or something, or of course a defensive Pokemon. My dilemma at the moment is this: with Volcarona on the team, it would be nice to pack a spinner; that said, Volcarona is probably the Pokemon I would prefer to switch out the most, making a spinner less necessary. It is just such a hard move to make, given the number of sweeps that Pokemon has made haha.


I've used Dugtrio in earlier teams, and honestly, I found it to be a bit lacklustre. Earthquake is not assured of a KO, which can make Dugtrio a bit useless in this regard. The set that worked best for me was something like Focus Sash + Reversal... but yeah I just never really felt 100% confident in its capabilities.


True, but a balloon makes Substitute + Disable useless, as the subs kill me off quicker than anything else haha.

(Why Ninetales doesn't have Morning Sun is beyond me)


Not necessarily haha. Scarf Sazandora, and two Pokemon who can boost their speed to insane levels means this team has some fight left in it without the sun. It's not as easy, I'm honest, but it's not the end of the world.


Just a couple of things on this: Firstly, Surf gets numbed in the sun, so I'm a bit against using it. Secondly, I ran Flamethrower on Saz for a long time to take out steels and such, but there are enough fire-type moves on the team to reduce its necessity. Dark Pulse is mostly to have a super-effective hit on ghosts and psychics, to take them out without having to rely on Draco (ie. the setup fodder move).

That said, U-Turn is great for early in the game when I often come in on Hippowdon to scare it away. In rematches, it allows me to play mind games with the opponent who might predict the scouting move and stay in. Switch advantage is very important for this team.


Two problems: Frailty (although dual screen can fix this some) and the fact that I am relying on an opponent to run hazards haha. The other thing is that it does not counter Politoed in such a cool way as Infernape. As mentioned, the Endeavour lead leaves so many players in such a shitty position that it is sometimes hilarious.


Perfectly put, Benlisted. Cheers for that haha.


Haha. Yeah, but it was lulzy. I used to stall out Blisseys because they couldn't switch to activate Natural Cure lol. That was used in a time when I tried to beat Politoed one-on-one as a lead, too.


True.


That's a pretty sick idea, although I'd probably still want to keep Endeavour haha. However SR/Endeavour/Grass Knot/Vacuum Wave could be fun... thanks for the idea :D

I'll hopefully test it haha.


GGs ;)


Again, thanks. I guess I refer you all to my conundrum I stated earlier with the whole Volcarona/spinner issue.


Indeed a lot of the team is fire, however Blaziken takes neutral so doesn't count :P

I have tested Donphan before, and he may get another whirl. I recently tried my Claydol idea and it failed miserably. At least Donphan has some nice attacking options to add to the team.

Thank you all for your feedback, and kind praise for the format (which took me ages due to my laziness). The team recently peaked at #13 on the PO server, before playing at 3am made me make some terrible misplays against complete unknowns, and I lost the plot a little haha. Volcarona is looking sketchy now, so I'll see what I can bring myself to switch her :S
Uh, bro, you completely ignored my first point, which was arguably the most important and the reasoning behind my future points. You need to run a bulky Ninetales and use a lead that can prevent Hazards in the beginning of the game. If SR gets up, your team is not going to be happy. And don't use a silly Sub+DIsable combo when you are using a weather inducer. It is your most valuable player. If Ninetales dies, you lose. That is generally how your matches will go
 
Uh, bro, you completely ignored my first point, which was arguably the most important and the reasoning behind my future points. You need to run a bulky Ninetales and use a lead that can prevent Hazards in the beginning of the game. If SR gets up, your team is not going to be happy. And don't use a silly Sub+DIsable combo when you are using a weather inducer. It is your most valuable player.
Sorry, bro. Let me get into that then.

The thing is, as has been stated, this is an offensive team. Any attempt to pack spinners or taunters or anything like that has nearly always disrupted the team's offensive power. Stall teams in particular thrive on synergy and forcing switches while opponents flail around - for this reason I take the approach of looking for little opportunities to get a certain sweeper in and go from there. For example, Sazandora baits Conkeldurr for Venusaur to come in; same for Blaziken luring the likes of Jellicent or Tentacruel... at that point I'm not fussed on if they spin, since it is a free switch in to a Pokemon who needs only one turn to become a wrecking ball.

More on the subject of leads, you must realise that Infernape is specifically tailored to screw up the things that threaten this team even more than entry hazards: Politoed and Tyranitar. I prioritise this issue more than dealing with hazards, since I'd rather deal with them with as little fuss as possible before sending Ninetales in at all.

As for the remark regarding the "silly Sub+Disable combo," honestly, I don't know if I should be offended or amused. You seem to think it hampers Ninetales' survivability, yet you also suggested I remove Leftovers for a Balloon? Does that one added immunity help out my survivability, as opposed to making smart switches? To be honest, I have received praise for that set in games where it starts stalling things out.

If Ninetales dies, you lose. That is generally how your matches will go.
Blaziken and Volcarona are both offended by this lol.

Thanks for taking the time to rate. I hope that clears some things up about my thought process.
 
This is an interesting team, but it has alot to improve on, so lets begin with the threats first :)

May I know what is your solution against Sandstorm? Most Sandstorm teams consist of Latios, Hippowdon, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Landlos, Ferrothorn and Renniculus. Your team simply cannot handle their bombardments, especially Specs Latios, as you need Hydreigon to revenge kill it, which is not very likely to happen, as all Latios does is spam Draco Meteors. As usual, other weathers post a very huge threat to your team.
Entry Hazards also screw your team up, especially Volcanora, as it simply makes it fodder for plenty of stuff.
Now for the Epic (BAN ME PLEASE) of your team : BULKY DDOS This thing simply screws your team, setting up on ANYTHING and screwing you up.

Now lets move on to the recommended changes.
Your biggest problem is with Volconora. Morning Sun is simply pointless, you are simply making it into a better Renniculus, but exposing yourself to so many shit that rape you. Volconora simply has no chance to use Morning Sun. Butterfly Dance one time, and heal the next turn, and you are staring at Scarf Chomp in the face. Even worse, Excadrill. I suggest you swap it for Hidden Power Electric, to destroy Gyarados, Jellicent and friends unknowingly, and lessening your needs to switch out against opposing Fires. Why not Hidden Power Rock/Ground? Your team perfectly treats those that need HP like set-up fodder.
Now Hydreigon. Its moveset is extremely unorthodox. Why Focus Blast when a 'Stab' Fire Blast is available with so much better accuracy. Yes, Heatran, but since you have the ability to come out with such a thread, I trust you are intelligent enough to predict a Heatran switching in, and smack it with U-turn. But, even as tempting Fire Blast seems, its pretty much redundant on your team, as the steels are fodders, while Earth Power smashes Specs Jolteon.
Use this Blaziken, its very much better on your team, the explanation is in UT
Blaziken @ Life Orb
Rash
60 Atk / 252 SpA / 196 Spe

- Fire Blast
- Hi Jump Kick
- Hidden Power Grass / Electric
- Stone Edge
Use a mixed set for Venusaur, Blissey won't get pass you so easily, and Earthquake deals with Excadrill easier.
For Infernape, I am not very sure of it purpose, as Hydreigon is an awesome lead, maybe you could replace it with Espeon or Foretress? Naw I'm not sure, and I am not very sure about Ninetales' set. Well, thats all I can help you with, good luck!

tl;dr Change Focus Blast to Fire Blast/Earth Power on Hydreigon, HP Electric for Morning Sun on Volconora, try Blaziken set, replace Infernape for utility or Scizor (not gonna survive Hp Fire anyways -_____-_
 
I think a lot of your changes are good advice - but not EQ on Venusaur over Sludge Bomb/HP Fire, the latter of which is needed for decent coverage and the former for dragons which give most sun teams issues. If looking to go mixed to beat Blissey, use Seed Bomb (more powerful then EQ anyway) - it is legal, and also lets you hit TTar and Toed on their weaker side. EQ solely lets you beat Tran and Chandelure, and that isn't worth it over Grass/Poison/Fire coverage, especially as your team can deal with these already with Blaziken (and Sazzy if you give it Earth Power).
 
I would consider a magic bounce espeon over the fire bug. It does take a little prediction, but it can also be used as a backup sunny day user. You could tack on Psychic for STAB or Psychoshock for STAB special that deals physical damage, Hidden Power (you know/can figure out which you need) and Grass Knot for Rain Dance and Sandstorm teams (especially Hippowdown).

Otherwise, I think your team is pretty cool and well put together.
 
Great team! Just a quick thing: Hydreigon can't learn dark pulse and earth power together, just one of the two for breeding reasons. So either choose fire blast and dark pulse or directly put fire blast and earth power since dark pulse won't be dealing too much damage on reuniclus after a couple of calm minds. I would also reccomend you to drop volcarona and try an heatran with nitro charge/fire blast/earth power/dragon pulse: just switch him in abusing his resistances, speed up with a nitro charge while the opponent switches and then sweep. I hope I was helpful.
 

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