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SM UU KACAW - Heavy Offence

Discussion in 'Team Showcase' started by pokemon sparrow, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. pokemon sparrow

    pokemon sparrow

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    115
    [​IMG]

    KACAW
    G’day Smogon, Sparrow here with my second RMT showcasing hazard stacking heavy offence in the UnderUsed Tier – KACAW. The team features some fairly unique options to help it get around traditional answers to HO teams. I’ve decided to post the team now, as I was planning to bring it further down the line during the UU Open, but unfortunately, I was eliminated early on.

    The combination of Scizor, Hawlucha & Sharpedo alongside hazard stack has a very good match-up against the majority of teams. This is further accentuated by running two very good wall breakers, in Z Latias & Mamoswine, as well as disruption in the form of priority Thunder Wave from Klefki. As opposed to common offensive play styles that may choose to run Aurora Veil, I’ve opted to run Spikes. By foregoing the option to run and support the setting up of veil, the team has gained better defensive synergy and sweeping potential through the use of more entry hazards and a utility pivot in Klefki. I implore other users to consider the idea of running another Pokemon over Alolan-Ninetales before blindly slapping it onto a team. Veil is currently under a lot of scrutiny at the moment, and I don’t think it’s as big a deal in the UU tier as some people claim it to be; this team is a testament to that fact.

    The team has also featured on Aim’s Youtube channel, for those of you who may be interested in seeing the team in action with commentary.



    in depth:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Latias @ Dragonium Z |Levitate
    Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Draco Meteor | Psyshock | Roost | Calm Mind
    Dragonium Z Latias was assigned as the teams’ main way to punch holes against opposing fat builds. Latias naturally threatens opposing offence due to its amazing typing, stats and coverage. Further to this, it has an option in boosting its own offences. Devastating Drake at +1 allows Latias to KO every Pokemon that doesn’t resist it or isn’t immune, aside from Pokemon such as Blissey. I like to use Latias to threaten Stall, since most of the time Steelix-M is the designated switch-in; chunking Steelix with Devastating Drake at +1 relieves pressure on my sweepers later on. Roost was decided on as the last move, as Latias becomes surprisingly durable at +1 SpD; having a bit of sustain on an early game pivot also helps.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Hawlucha @ Power Herb | Unburden
    Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    High Jump Kick | Acrobatics | Sky Attack | Swords Dance
    Sky Attack Hawlucha has always been a threat; although some would argue that Substitute + Sitrus Berry is better. I prefer to run Sky Attack, since it at least guarantees a big hit on opposing offensive threats, especially if Hawlucha isn’t guaranteed the opportunity to set-up. Power Herb also means that I can KO a threat with out the fear of being slower than the incoming switch-in. I find that being at full health after the initial KO is much more useful compared to being at ~75% health due to having to use Sub to activate Unburden. In short, Subsitute Hawlucha may not always find an opportunity to set-up; Sky Attack, in a way, allows Hawlucha to circumvent that issue by allowing one big hit followed by being faster than the offensive metagame afterward. Furthermore, Sky Attack at +2 turns Hawlucha into a decent breaker. Hawlucha may find opportunity to set-up against choice locked Fighting Type (Scarf Infernape & Scarf Terrakion) and Ground Type moves (Krookodile), it’s also able to threaten out weakened offensive Pokemon due to its fantastic Speed tier.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Life Orb | Technician
    Adamant | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Bullet Punch | Knock Off | Quick Attack | Swords Dance
    Quick Attack Scizor is probably what this team should be most well known for. Scizor is one of, if not, the best Pokemon in UU at the moment. It finds many opportunities to set-up a Swords Dance and sweep opposing teams. Current trends that lead to set up include: Choice locked Pokemon such as Latias, Hydreigon & opposing Scizor, Fairy types such as Sylveon & Togekiss, Ice types such as Alolan-Ninetales, Weavile & Mamoswine – just to list a few examples. Scizor likes to come in once the playing field has been set up, preferably with Stealth Rock and Spikes, and usually the best time to bring it in, is by simply sacking one of its teammates in order to gain the opportunity to Swords Dance. Bullet Punch and Knock Off don’t require much explanation; one is STAB and the other gives Scizor the best coverage that is required. The last move that I have chosen is Quick Attack. This allows me to handle a large number of offensive switch-ins to Scizor – offensive threats that may trouble the rest of the team. Pokemon that are quite handily dealt with by Quick Attack (after appropriate hazard damage): Infernape, Darmanitan, Starmie, Sharpedo, Crawdaunt, Xurkitree, Raikou, Volcanion and, Entei. In some cases, simply clicking Quick Attack or Knock Off in order to damage an opposing Pokemon is all that’s necessary to open up a sweep with either Sharpedo-M or Hawlucha.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Life Orb | Thick Fat
    Naïve | 152 Atk / 180 SpA / 176 Spe
    Earthquake | Ice Shard | Freeze-Dry | Stealth Rock
    Mixed Mamoswine: the Stall breaker, Electric Immunity, priority in Ice Shard and Stealth Rocker; all in one. Freeze-Dry on Mamoswine will easily 2HKO some of its most common switch-ins: Alomomola, Mantine and Slowbro. In fact, with Stealth Rock up, nothing on stall builds will enjoy switching into Mamoswine. Freeze Dry can OHKO Quagsire and it has a decent chance to OHKO Swampert. I run enough Speed to out pace base 70 Speed mons, most notably Magneton, Metagross & Volcanion. Essentially Mamoswine’s main purpose is to set up Stealth Rock, versus Offence its main utility outside of this is Ice Shard as well as being incredibly difficult to switch into.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite | Speed Boost
    Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Crunch | Psychic Fangs | Ice Fangs | Protect
    Sharpedo-M is the last cleaner on the team, in terms of Mega Pokemon, I feel it was the logical choice. Sharpedo is normally the last Pokemon to hit the field and does an excellent job of cleaning up after the opposing team has been chipped by hazard damage and its’ teammates. In terms of set-up opportunity Sharpedo almost always comes in after something has been KO’d. At +1 Speed it can out pace +1 Speed Xurkitree as well as most of the offensive meta, this excludes fast scarfers such as Infernape, Terrakion & Latias. Sharpedo can also be played during the midgame by threatening an early sweep with out necessarily needing to Mega Evolve. An example of utilizing Sharpedo-M early is if an opportunity presents itself where it’s necessary to deal damage to an opposing Pokemon thereby aiding a teammates sweep, i.e. putting a threat into range of Bullet Punch, Ice Shard or Quick Attack.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Klefki @ Leftovers | Prankster
    Bold | 196 HP / 208 Def / 104 SpD
    Spikes | Dazzling Gleam | Hidden Power [Fire] | Thunder Wave
    Klefki really is the glue of the team, Spikes is the underlying factor that makes HO such an effective play style. Further to this, spreading Thunder Wave onto threats that are faster than Mamoswine & Scizor is absolutely huge, especially if this can be pulled off earlier in the match. Klefki is a fantastic pivot with great defensive typing and decent bulk – it finds plenty of opportunities to switch in and set up Spikes. This is also the only Pokemon that will require an explanation in regards to its EV spread, which also ties into its coverage. Running physical defense, Klefki is able to stomach some big hits; most importantly it’s able to take hits from Pokemon such as Weavile & Scizor. Where as, investment in spD allows Klefki to survive Timid Primarina’s Hydro Pump 7 out of 8 times (if it hits) from full. Dazzling Gleam + Hidden Power Fire followed by Bold Nature means it will be faster than Hawlucha, Azelf, Starmie, etc. after paralysis. Hidden Power Fire ensures you’re not set up bait for opposing Scizor and Dazzling Gleam can also 2HKO Krookodile, Bewear, Terrakion and OHKO Crawdaunt & Hydreigon whilst not having 90% accuracy.

    important klefki calcs (open)

    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 196 HP / 208+ Def Klefki: 129-153 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 196 HP / 208+ Def Klefki: 222-263 (73 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 196 HP / 208+ Def Klefki: 78-92 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 196 HP / 208+ Def Klefki: 242-288 (79.6 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 196 HP / 208+ Def Klefki: 243-286 (79.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 196 HP / 208+ Def Klefki: 213-252 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 196 HP / 104 SpD Klefki: 262-310 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

    0 SpA Klefki Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 176-208 (62.6 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Importable - http://pokepast.es/d15b8c2d155cdf6b

    threats:
    [​IMG] - Nothing on this team safely comes in, this is the nature of HO. Primarina is a very popular lead versus this team; in this case I normally lead Klefki. As stated earlier Specs Hydro Pump from Primarina is only a OHKO 1 out of 8 times, not counting the miss chance. You either get one layer of spikes or two layers or one layer and a paralysed Primarina. Latias can set up CM on Primarina locked into Hydro Pump and once Primarina switches out, it has a difficult time trying to come in safely thereafter.
    [​IMG] - CM Raikou is able to capitalise on Klefki, avoiding paralysis from Thunder Wave and taking minimal damage from Dazzling Gleam especially when boosted. At +1 nothing enjoys switching into it, Pokemon such as Mamoswine and Latias fold to +1 Never-Ending Nightmare (Shadow Ball) and Sub + CM Raikou is a genuine pain. Don't let it set up, in fact, the only Pokemon it safely comes in on is Klefki.
    [​IMG] - Banded Entei is very difficult to switch into, in terms of match up the idea is to not let it come in for free. Again, this Pokemon is able to capitalise on Klefki, but is very much neutered once it is paralysed. Like Raikou, Entei struggles to switch-in, if you're facing it with Klefki go for Thunder Wave, that way even Mamoswine can RKO. If worse comes to worse Latias can tank a hit and put it into RKO range.
    [​IMG] - Cobalion is able to stop Scizor and M-Sharpedo from sweeping. With that in mind, hitting it with Thunder Wave from Klefki is quite useful, Devastating Drake from Latias does ~60% and, Hawlucha is able to threaten it out - racking up hazard damage.
    [​IMG] - Funnily enough opposing Scizor are quite threatening to this team, especially if they're Swords Dance Offensive or a late game bulky Swords Dance Scizor. Fortunately Scizor has some difficulty coming in for free. It's never really got a safe opportunity to set up and hazard damage adds up. Try to avoid giving it an opportunity to set up.
    [​IMG] - Very annoying if the set is unknown. Leading a Latias versus Infernape followed by an easy switch into Klefki is sufficient enough to scout the set. Infernape also struggles versus all three sweepers: Hawlucha is faster than Scarf after Unburden and resists Infernape's priority, Scizor can KO with +2 Quick Attack & Sharpedo can Protect scout. NP Infernape is walled by Latias.
    [​IMG] - Mamoswine is a pain to switch into, sometimes in comes down to clever switching, other times it comes down to sacrificing the correct Pokemon in order to force Mamoswine out. Sacrificing a Pokemon usually ends up being Klefki setting a single layer of Spikes.
    [​IMG] - Another annoying Pokemon to switch into. Klefki can always tank a hit and either Thunder Wave or set up a Spike. Devastating Drake from Latias deals a significant amount of damage providing a OHKO at +1. Other ways to deal with M-Blastoise involve dealing heavy damage from either Hawlucha, M-Sharpedo or Mamoswine, in order to put it in range of RKO.
    [​IMG] - Comes in relatively freely versus Klefki. In that case Thunder Wave is the play, you have either shut down a choiced Chandelure or severely hindered a Substitute Chandelure. Very difficult to switch into, but once paralysed it's effectively neutered.

    conclusion:
    Managed to nab 3rd and 4th with two separate alts on UU ladder with this team, probably could get higher if I put in the effort. I encourage any one interested in trying out HO in gen7uu to give this team a go. I feel it’s quite reflective of the fast paced, hard-hitting meta game. The team offers counter play to the vast majority of the tier (para hax lol) and is very fun to use. I’d also like to address the false ideology that Alolan-Ninetales is one of the only ways to run heavy set-up offence. IMO Alola-Tales is more of a liability: with a weakness to the most common Pokemon in Scizor, as well as, being slower than a large portion of Offensive Pokemon. These factors combined with a Stealth Rock weakness + the prevalence of Defog in this tier, I find veil to be a very limiting play style – I’d love to know your thoughts!
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  2. Reviloja753

    Reviloja753

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    813
    Two things.

    1. Give SOMETHING a pivot move. It will make switching in a lot easier as you carry that momentum for the team. My suggestion is to run U-Turn on Scizor rather than Knock Off, but do whatever you see fit.

    2. Slight nitpick, but the H in HO stands for Hyper, not Heavy.
    pokemon sparrow likes this.
  3. pokemon sparrow

    pokemon sparrow

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    115
    Thanks for the rate, I don't really feel the need for running pivot on this team. I've peaked 3rd and 4th on ladder on two separate alts with this, so I am fairly confident in the effectiveness of the team.

    Also, I believe heavy and hyper are interchangeable terms!
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
    iRebel, Tera Melos and Reviloja753 like this.
  4. pokeisfun

    pokeisfun formerly hilarious
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    918
    • Very awesome team and also creative in the sense that you're not using Aurora Veil on HO. Let me give you some recommendations so you can at least be more aware of weaknesses as to play around them, if not also make changes to directly address them.

    One weakness is Mandibuzz:
    • It completely donks Sharpedo (Ice Fang does not 2HKO) and Klefki because of the prankster immunity and Knock Off to remove Leftovers
    • Additionally, it has a good matchup versus Latias if it evades the Z move and even Mamoswine and Scizor because you run unconventional sets
    • Hawlucha doesn't counter because Foul Play does too much
    Another weakness is opposing Scizor, especially bulky SD:
    • It can wall Latias to a large extent and Sharpedo and Mamoswine to some extent
    • Also it poses a problem with its power after a boost and your own Scizor and Hawlucha cannot really counter it
    • Klefki's HP Fire is a saving grace but it might be a bit obvious if you switch in, HP fire doesn't even OHKO, and of course Klefki takes a lot from boosted Bullet Punch anyways

    To deal with these weaknesses:
    • You could run a more conventional Mamoswine set with max attack and Icicicle Crash to deal more damage, but that comes at the expense of Alomomola and even Swampert (although Spikes does good work especially versus Swampert)
    • Changing Latias to Z Thunder would help, although it costs you your main instant powerhouse which is a shame. You could even compromise and use HP Fire over Recover for Scizor while keeping Z Draco for Mandibuzz
    • Adamant Sharpedo does a much better job of running through these threats, better chance to 2HKO Mandibuzz and Scizor after SR. You also outspeed Z Xurkitree still (and OHKO it) while the only big benchmark you lose is Scarf Krookodile, which Latias lures to a certain extent anyways
    All these changes are pretty minor, I'm sure the team could work with or without them. It's not really possible to cover everything in the game so at some point we're just going to be trading weaknesses.

    Good luck with the team in any case.
    Hogg, dodmen, Sacri' and 2 others like this.
  5. pokemon sparrow

    pokemon sparrow

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Messages:
    115
    Hey pif, thanks for the in-depth feedback and recommendations, I'm fully aware of the weakness' to this team, and I'd like to address each of your points. Furthermore, I'm intending to add a small list of threats as soon as possible.

    Mandibuzz:
    I'm assuming you'd be referring to a defensive set when referencing Mandibuzz, since it's required to be so in order to tank Sharpedo & Hawlucha comfortably. In that case, Klefki is able to 3HKO with Dazzling Gleam, Mamoswine's Freeze-Dry is a 2HKO and +1 Draco Meteor from Latias does >70%. Additionally, +2 Foul Play from Mandi doesn't OHKO Hawlucha, in return, +2 Sky Attack deals ~60% damage leaving Mandibuzz in RKO range. In summary, although Mandibuzz is a pain to deal with, I don't think of it as a major threat to this team.
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-614169037

    Scizor:
    I agree with you that Scizor is a threat to the team, but I disagree that bulky Scizor is the main threat (although it can be late game if I am careless and don't set hazards etc.). In regard to your observations, the assumption is that I've not managed to set hazards and that Scizor has been able to switch in for free. I am not saying the second scenario isn't impossible, I consider it highly unlikely. In terms of defensive counter play the team has limited options for handling +2 Scizor; and the teams main counter play is preventing it from setting up. If worse comes to worse, hitting Scizor for enough chip to put it into Klefki's HP Fire range is the last resort (if Scizor manages to get to +4 then you're going to have a bad time).

    Suggestions:
    Regular Mamoswine has always been an option, and I agree it does pressure opposing Mandibuzz and Scizor switch-ins a lot more. The way I see it, this comes down to personal preference. Both regular Mamoswine and mixed can work and I personally like the idea of chunking bulky water types sufficiently for the rest of the team. One thing I failed to address is that regular Mamoswine has a better time against Primarina & Amoonguss which does help this team.
    The Latias change is very interesting. I'd be lying if I said I didn't utilise Recover a lot, because I do. I am willing to give either Electrium Z or Hidden Power Fire a go. A side note: with Z-Thunder, Latias is able to protect hazard stacking a heck of a lot more!
    Adamant Sharpedo is also a nice choice, though I dislike the ability to out run Choice Scarf Hydreigon, which becomes relevant during the later stages of a match.

    All up, I appreciate your suggestions, and have tried to address the threats that you've listed. The fault is mine for not including a threat list and the teams main ways of counter play. I'll be testing out your changes at a later stage and I 100 per cent agree with your final sentiment.

    Thanks for the rate!
    ~Sparrow
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  6. DoubleOD

    DoubleOD

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    107
    This team is super fun and super duper good.

    I have absolutely ZERO knowledge of the tier and after watching a few of Sparrow's replays have gone 21-1 with this team.

    Here is some food for thought, I guess:
    1) I agree with PIF that opposing SD Scizor could theoretically give this team major problems. I've only encountered Band so far, I think, but I am simply not sure what to do when a Scizor comes in, say, Mamoswine and proceeds to SD. Klefki HP Fire is how I'd otherwise deal with it.
    2) I've almost always found myself leading Mamoswine with the main exception being Azelf leads as they tend to carry Taunt. Are there any scenarios you can think off of the top of your head where I shouldn't be leading Mamoswine?
    3) Knock Off on Scizor is super useful. I disagree with the previous poster. Sometimes you just need to knock those Leftovers off to give your team a chance.
    4) Freeze Dry dropping Swampert (even lead Swampert) is absolutely hilarious.
    5) I actually find it hard to get off an SD with Hawlucha as the mons you've listed aren't incredibly common. I've also been fortunate to have never missed a Sky Attack.
    6) Your importable has Waterfall and not Ice Fang on Sharpedo. I've been running Waterfall as per the importable. I've noticed a few instances where Ice Fang would be useful but Mega Sharpedo has also cleaned up a large number of those 21 games and I'm not sure it would have done that without STAB Waterfall. Interesting.
    7) Mega Steelix coupled with a Wish passer I think might be a problem if certain mons go down.

    Thank you for making this and please make more.


    EDIT: Wanted to add two more things.
    1) I should be 20-2 but I got lucky. How did I get lucky? By flinching a Mandibuzz once with Waterfall. I guess that's an advantage over Ice Fang.
    2) Primarina is painfully hard to switch into.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    pokemon sparrow likes this.
  7. pokemon sparrow

    pokemon sparrow

    Joined:
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    Thanks for the feedback! I've added a threat list and updated the importable. In terms of changes that you may be interested in, try Adamant Mamoswine, this has an almost 100% chance to OHKO Primarina and sufficiently deals with Mandibuzz. I've chosen to run mixed Mamoswine for reasons stated in the RMT, it all comes down to personal preference. I'm glad you've found ladder success with the team, and I hope its help you get into UU again! Thank you for the rate.
  8. Tera Melos

    Tera Melos formerly Hasukura

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    "Cali-chan: the klefki/lucha/mamo one
    Cali-chan: iits pretty bad" - The Competitive Tutoring rooms thought on this team

    I came across this team during an attempt to get back into UU. I went through various RMTs and even used a lot of my Gen 6 / ORAS teams. I saw some success with my ORAS Stall team, I always saw myself as a Stall player. That being said, as I was reading through this RMT I was captivated. It had all the elements of team building I always aim for as well as featuring some of my favorite UU mons. I quickly copied this team into PS! and saw very quick success up into Mid ladder. While I don't have any major feedback that hasn't been said, I would still like to share my thoughts and overall experience with this team, as a Veteran and Returning UU player.

    I looked at a lot of the suggestions here and tried the changes. I found most success with the Vanilla team, HOWEVER the "conventional" Mamoswine set works just as well in varying situations. I never found a situation where one really would have / did outplay the other. The U-Turn suggestion for Scizor was helpful as well. I've always felt that pivoting was one of the most important functions of competitive game play, and providing Scizor with such an iconic Pivot as U-Turn made for some very great interactions and pivots.

    That being said, my thoughts on the Vanilla team. Freeze-Dry Mamo is now my favorite thing. I find it hitting so much heavier than I would expect on so many occasions. It makes me laugh when they try to swap to cune or pert or milotic. I've even seen people running Vaporeon lose their minds. With that in mind, I could absolutely see this set becoming a norm or even recommended set for Mamoswine. Klefki was always a favorite of mine. CSB and I went ape shit when it dropped, we both enjoyed Sableye/Klefki core, I absolutely loved it back in ORAS. I'm surprised Klekfi can drop hydreigon. I was overall surprised with the performance range of this team.


    As I mentioned prior, I'm typically a stall player. Since Gen 4, I've enjoyed UU stall. I've been a competitive player generally my whole adult life. To me, I enjoy teams with a high skill ceiling. I've never been quite into H/O, I've always felt it was as gimmicky and "click to win" as people claim Stall is. This team, from my experience, has a very high skill ceiling. I've become incredible comfortable with so many SuMo core UU metagam mechanics while playing this team. Thanks to this team, I've grown a fond love, a specifically tender love, for UU mons and a playstyle that I've never found myself comfortable or fancy towards. I owe this team credit for that, for giving me a very enjoyable reintroduction to the UU metagame.

    Overall, I'm in love with this team. I've encountered people on low ladder struggling to use it, I've seen people in CT speak horribly of this team, I've seen opponents claim it's "unfair". It's a controversial team and I believe that has yet to be stated. I couldn't give any more suggestions or calcs that haven't already been posted. I can however give an emotional and sincere response to my time using this team. I do hope reading this encourages more people to try new things and step out of their comfort zone. Thank you for taking your time to read this. I apologize for my previous post, I intended to come back much later with more detail. Again, Thank you for reading!
    pokemon sparrow likes this.

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