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Ubers Kangaskhan [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]
- Thread starter skies
- Start date
I added this a while ago but never said so u.u
Does this look ready for stamps?
Not QC, but ima lay this out in a way that they do, so i don't miss anything and so its easier to skim through.
Overview
Pros: "Priority in Sucker Punch, albeit a little bit unreliable." <--- Add that it has Fake Out as priority here, it might only work 1st turn but it's priority nonetheless.
Cons: "Blaziken, Arceus-Fighting, and Mega Mewtwo X possess Fighting-type moves and can kill Mega Khan before it can even move." <-- Not exactly, Kangaskhan has two forms of priority that can be used to hit these mons (Fake Out, Sucker Punch) and Jolly Kangaskhan can actually OHKO Blaziken with Return before Blaze can move since it typically runs Adamant, if it has Protect to raise its Speed first then yeah, you lose. Either way i would reword this.
Offensive
Looks good, small nitpick though: Put that 4 HP in defense to give an odd number of HP and to make sure Genesect doesn't get a +1 Attack boost from you, as its STAB attacks are physical and hurt far more than say an Ice Beam at +1.
Another thing that could be mentioned in Moves imo is using Frustration > Return (with min happiness ofc) to screw with Ditto as users don't bother lowering the Ditto's happiness purely for something like this. It works best on PuP sets but since its not given a set for whatever reason I suppose it could be left out.
Also, Fire Punch is mentioned a few times around here, but i see no description as to why it's effective, and it's not even mentioned in Other Options at all or any of the sets, it seems like this came from nowhere atm. Might want to add some details about it.
I would emphasize that Kangaskhan needs cleric support to be 100% effective, if it does get burned then it becomes deadweight and you might as well give yourself some form of cushioning in case status is unavoidable.
The rest looks fine but one thing - Remember that Checks and Counters need to be ordered in viability/effectiveness, right now i don't believe that Lucario/MMX/Terrakion are the best checks / counters since they have trouble switching in. Also Scarf Pokemon in general should be in checks and counters as they revenge kill, I see Fireburn mentioned it already but it's not there yet. Also burns in general deserve a spot of their own imo since burning this thing is one of the best ways to deal with it.
I might be nitpicking so I apologize in advance but I might as well mention it all before QC has to.
EDIT: Why 4 QC checks? Unless something has changed that was only for the OU subforum.
Overview
Pros: "Priority in Sucker Punch, albeit a little bit unreliable." <--- Add that it has Fake Out as priority here, it might only work 1st turn but it's priority nonetheless.
Cons: "Blaziken, Arceus-Fighting, and Mega Mewtwo X possess Fighting-type moves and can kill Mega Khan before it can even move." <-- Not exactly, Kangaskhan has two forms of priority that can be used to hit these mons (Fake Out, Sucker Punch) and Jolly Kangaskhan can actually OHKO Blaziken with Return before Blaze can move since it typically runs Adamant, if it has Protect to raise its Speed first then yeah, you lose. Either way i would reword this.
Offensive
Looks good, small nitpick though: Put that 4 HP in defense to give an odd number of HP and to make sure Genesect doesn't get a +1 Attack boost from you, as its STAB attacks are physical and hurt far more than say an Ice Beam at +1.
Another thing that could be mentioned in Moves imo is using Frustration > Return (with min happiness ofc) to screw with Ditto as users don't bother lowering the Ditto's happiness purely for something like this. It works best on PuP sets but since its not given a set for whatever reason I suppose it could be left out.
Also, Fire Punch is mentioned a few times around here, but i see no description as to why it's effective, and it's not even mentioned in Other Options at all or any of the sets, it seems like this came from nowhere atm. Might want to add some details about it.
I would emphasize that Kangaskhan needs cleric support to be 100% effective, if it does get burned then it becomes deadweight and you might as well give yourself some form of cushioning in case status is unavoidable.
The rest looks fine but one thing - Remember that Checks and Counters need to be ordered in viability/effectiveness, right now i don't believe that Lucario/MMX/Terrakion are the best checks / counters since they have trouble switching in. Also Scarf Pokemon in general should be in checks and counters as they revenge kill, I see Fireburn mentioned it already but it's not there yet. Also burns in general deserve a spot of their own imo since burning this thing is one of the best ways to deal with it.
I might be nitpicking so I apologize in advance but I might as well mention it all before QC has to.
EDIT: Why 4 QC checks? Unless something has changed that was only for the OU subforum.
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Added all this but I did mention Fire Punch in OO and nowhere else bar C&C, nowhere in Offensive. And sorry, I thought the 4 QC Checks was global u.u
This has been languishing for some time and I have a ton of input.
There are several superfluous points in the overview I would remove and others I would reword. This is how it would look like IMO:
+ Mega Evolution makes it Ubers-viable. Parental Bond lets it hit hard and break subs and sashes
+ Base 100 speed outspeeds the crowded 90-99 Speed tier.
+ Awesome revenge killer (mention parental bond STAB Fake out and parental bond sucker punch)
+ Mention Wish Kang, its merits, and how it is radically different to play around
- Offers little by way of defensive synergy
- Faster threats can threaten a burn
- Mention MMX and MBlaze as new and potent offensive threats, and Mega Gengar to Wish Kang
Offensive
########
Moves:
========
Change targets of Earthquake from Steelceus and MZor to Klefki and Jirachi/Heatran. You could mention it's kang's best option against Ferro (yeah the iron barbs bit) and Zor.
The bullet about Crunch easing prediction is irrelevant as non-crunch Kang would never stay in against Ghosts. Change it to 'Crunch allows Kang to pick off weakened giratina'. IMO though Crunch goes in moves as EQ is generally a lot more useful.
Set Details:
========
Reword to jolly outspeeds base 90-99s (and speed ties base 100s)
Reword to Scrappy allows Kang to hit ghosts with its Normal STABs on the predicted switchin before it mega evolves.
Usage Tips
========
The second and last bullets can be combined. "Revenge killer + punch holes... Note that decent natural bulk allows it to take a hit if necessary"
The point about rocky helmet can be omitted completely as the item is far from common. Rocky helmet and iron barbs can be mentioned under a 'residual contact damage' bullet or something to that effect in cc.
Mention that you should not be too hasty in using Sucker Punch. For example, that MMY you want to kill might actually be a stalltwo and will-o-wisp you.
Mention how it is advisable to bring Kang in via double switching as it does not want to switch in on anything.
Team Options
========
Ok so since it has been established Kang offers little defensively, mention it's good to support it with a stable defensive core. Yveltal is good. Grounds are good.
Gothitelle really shouldn't be mentioned here IMO as it has little usage outside of on webs teams (oo). Mention cleric support; phydef Xern is a good partner that handles MMX. Remove the mention of Shaymin-S.
Kyogre should only be suggested if it is specially defensive, as that fares well against support arceus formes in general and can sponge sleep from Darkrai.
(DeoKang is a great offensive core :])
WishPass (should be Wish IMO since the 'Pass' is tacit but wtv lol)
########
Moves
========
Reword to Toxic cripples bulky Pokemon like Lugia and support Arceus by putting them on a timer.
Set Details
========
Elaborate on why you use maximum special bulk over physical bulk (eats up 0 SpA judgment, handles CM Arceus and Palkia MUCH better; powerful physical attacks will dent it severely nonetheless).
Usage Tips
========
Sustaining a burn/toxic is actually necessary in many cases on this set, if it means getting off a crucial toxic/wish/seismic toss. This set should always be paired with a cleric anyway, so I would reword that point.
Physical investment? What physical investment???? I would change the point to 'be wary of switch ins to powerful physical attackers like MMX etc. Also I would again remove the rocky helmet blurb.
Mention Wish passing large parcels of HP to teammates as it is after all, the essence of this set.
Team Options
========
Mention Sylveon (and Clefable) as other providers of cleric support. Phydef Xern is especially notable though.
Ekiller does not have any notable synergy with this set whatsoever.
Mention Defog support and support Arceus formes. Rock Arceus helps against Ho-oh; its weakness to Palkia does not mater so much here since Kang + cleric stands up to Palkia nicely.
Other Options
########
A good few lines should be dedicated to a PUP set on webs teams (goth mentions can go here). Kang can steamroll even slightly weakened teams with sticky web support as long as given a small opening.
Mention Low Kick.
Substitute and Roar seem completely silly to me.
Checks & Counters
########
This needs to be ordered and grouped. Should probably look like:
Ghost-types
Will-O-Wisp
Physical walls
Fighting-types
Revenge Killing
Mega Gengar
Residual contact damage
Hope this gets QCed soon.
There are several superfluous points in the overview I would remove and others I would reword. This is how it would look like IMO:
+ Mega Evolution makes it Ubers-viable. Parental Bond lets it hit hard and break subs and sashes
+ Base 100 speed outspeeds the crowded 90-99 Speed tier.
+ Awesome revenge killer (mention parental bond STAB Fake out and parental bond sucker punch)
+ Mention Wish Kang, its merits, and how it is radically different to play around
- Offers little by way of defensive synergy
- Faster threats can threaten a burn
- Mention MMX and MBlaze as new and potent offensive threats, and Mega Gengar to Wish Kang
Offensive
########
Moves:
========
Change targets of Earthquake from Steelceus and MZor to Klefki and Jirachi/Heatran. You could mention it's kang's best option against Ferro (yeah the iron barbs bit) and Zor.
The bullet about Crunch easing prediction is irrelevant as non-crunch Kang would never stay in against Ghosts. Change it to 'Crunch allows Kang to pick off weakened giratina'. IMO though Crunch goes in moves as EQ is generally a lot more useful.
Set Details:
========
Reword to jolly outspeeds base 90-99s (and speed ties base 100s)
Reword to Scrappy allows Kang to hit ghosts with its Normal STABs on the predicted switchin before it mega evolves.
Usage Tips
========
The second and last bullets can be combined. "Revenge killer + punch holes... Note that decent natural bulk allows it to take a hit if necessary"
The point about rocky helmet can be omitted completely as the item is far from common. Rocky helmet and iron barbs can be mentioned under a 'residual contact damage' bullet or something to that effect in cc.
Mention that you should not be too hasty in using Sucker Punch. For example, that MMY you want to kill might actually be a stalltwo and will-o-wisp you.
Mention how it is advisable to bring Kang in via double switching as it does not want to switch in on anything.
Team Options
========
Ok so since it has been established Kang offers little defensively, mention it's good to support it with a stable defensive core. Yveltal is good. Grounds are good.
Gothitelle really shouldn't be mentioned here IMO as it has little usage outside of on webs teams (oo). Mention cleric support; phydef Xern is a good partner that handles MMX. Remove the mention of Shaymin-S.
Kyogre should only be suggested if it is specially defensive, as that fares well against support arceus formes in general and can sponge sleep from Darkrai.
(DeoKang is a great offensive core :])
WishPass (should be Wish IMO since the 'Pass' is tacit but wtv lol)
########
Moves
========
Reword to Toxic cripples bulky Pokemon like Lugia and support Arceus by putting them on a timer.
Set Details
========
Elaborate on why you use maximum special bulk over physical bulk (eats up 0 SpA judgment, handles CM Arceus and Palkia MUCH better; powerful physical attacks will dent it severely nonetheless).
Usage Tips
========
Sustaining a burn/toxic is actually necessary in many cases on this set, if it means getting off a crucial toxic/wish/seismic toss. This set should always be paired with a cleric anyway, so I would reword that point.
Physical investment? What physical investment???? I would change the point to 'be wary of switch ins to powerful physical attackers like MMX etc. Also I would again remove the rocky helmet blurb.
Mention Wish passing large parcels of HP to teammates as it is after all, the essence of this set.
Team Options
========
Mention Sylveon (and Clefable) as other providers of cleric support. Phydef Xern is especially notable though.
Ekiller does not have any notable synergy with this set whatsoever.
Mention Defog support and support Arceus formes. Rock Arceus helps against Ho-oh; its weakness to Palkia does not mater so much here since Kang + cleric stands up to Palkia nicely.
Other Options
########
A good few lines should be dedicated to a PUP set on webs teams (goth mentions can go here). Kang can steamroll even slightly weakened teams with sticky web support as long as given a small opening.
Mention Low Kick.
Substitute and Roar seem completely silly to me.
Checks & Counters
########
This needs to be ordered and grouped. Should probably look like:
Ghost-types
Will-O-Wisp
Physical walls
Fighting-types
Revenge Killing
Mega Gengar
Residual contact damage
Hope this gets QCed soon.
+Melee Mewtwo: and afaik gimmic names are okayish now
Name of the first set should be changed to "Wrath of Khan" (though "KHAAAN!" also works). Chesnaught
Name of the first set should be changed to "Wrath of Khan" (though "KHAAAN!" also works). Chesnaught
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Is this still being worked on? I'd like to take over it, if that's alright, since the OP hasn't posted for 20 days, which I believe is far past the limit of inactivity.
Just posting to highlight that in the event this gets reassigned, I spoke to Melee Mewtwo some time back about taking over. Still, last I heard from him, Chesnaught is still keen on seeing this through.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Pardon me, I didn't know :)
Then you should've asked/VMed a QC member, rather than wait.
Not QC, but I thought I would give you my thoughts
Blue Jay Hack He Must Fireburn shrang Sweep Theorymon Hugendugen (i'm not sure if you're interested in these but I thought I would try) polop
Edit: The wish set is helpless vs Gengar because of scrappy's illegality with wish, you may want to mention this in the CC section.
Just some general nitpicks:
- The big one is that Kangaskhan cannot run Scrappy and Wish on the same set because Kanga gets Wish from an ADV event and Scrappy didn't exist until DPP.
- I would suggest adding 0 Atk IVs to the Wish set just because it isn't using its Attack at all and it further helps with Confusion and Foul Play damage along side the Calm Nature.
- I just weeded out some old inconsistencies involving Fire Punch since ti is no longer mentioned in the analysis, I may not have got them all so looking over it again for these would be beneficial
- I added the fact that Defensive Yveltal fears switching into the Wish set because of Toxic, but this isn't anything big.
Blue Jay Hack He Must Fireburn shrang Sweep Theorymon Hugendugen (i'm not sure if you're interested in these but I thought I would try) polop
Edit: The wish set is helpless vs Gengar because of scrappy's illegality with wish, you may want to mention this in the CC section.
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This Pokemon is quickly becoming as misused as Ekiller is. Double points if you actually use Fake Out + PUP and Ekiller on the same team and attempt to set them both up ASAP. Triple points if you do the same thing with GeoXern on top of that. You win if you add a shittily played Darkrai on top of that.
QC 1/3
QC 1/3
Scrappy is legal with Wish, since you can Ability Capsule it.
ah, thats something I didn't think about. Listen to this guy.
Maybe mention in OO Crunch instead of Toxic for this set ? Lack of Toxic may be annoying, but you still have Seismic Toss for more reliable damage and you may carry Toxic Spikes/other Toxic users in case you don't want as heavy support for WishPass Kanga.
Wish set is not viable- it doesn't have a real defensive niche due to the bad typing (hence it doesn't actually counter many offensive threats- it only beats like support arcs who can still burn you). The gengar weakness is hilarious with that set+the fact you need a cleric aka a bulky fairy. So just remove the set entirely cause it sucks. If anyone wants to argue with this then I'm not up for it, there is simply no way you can make a good stall team with it that doesn't get compression problems as well as a gengar weakness.
Adamant nature slash on the first set- you can sometimes get away with it and the stronger priority is very useful for E-killer/Xerneas in some situations. PuP is very deadly against defensive teams, I think it should go in moves on the first set. Low Kick is also pretty cool there.
Ill QC when people have realized how shit the second set is.
Adamant nature slash on the first set- you can sometimes get away with it and the stronger priority is very useful for E-killer/Xerneas in some situations. PuP is very deadly against defensive teams, I think it should go in moves on the first set. Low Kick is also pretty cool there.
Ill QC when people have realized how shit the second set is.
Added these changes :) I've never found the Wish set to be outstanding either u.u
If Gengar's an issue, why not use Crunch or Sucker Punch? Or even Shadow Ball; I've seen some people use that.
Thanks :)
I'll begin writing this now!
EDIT;
Does anyone have tips for cutting the Checks & Counters section? It's a bit long.
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