Pokémon Kingdra

[EternalZ]

If you need a Baton Passer, Scolipede is who you want. Combusken hinders teams more than helps them IMO. Scolipede, unlike Combusken, can actually have some form of offensive presence with his shiny new base 100 attack and powerful STAB Megahorn. You could even incorporate a mix of a late game cleaner/BPer set to help you out in a pinch.

Also, Kingdra has decent defenses and a great defensive typing, providing more than enough set up opportunities. Just pointing that out.

 

[Jojobobo]

I've got a set I think will work quite nicely, the idea here is to set up rain with a damp rock and then switch in Kingdra (preferably through a low speed Volt Switch so it comes in unscathed):

Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 HP
Modest Nature
- Focus Energy
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Substitute

I prefer this set to BP partners which get Kingdra's speed up as I always find BP sets too weak to Taunt or Trick/Switcheroo (particularly when coming from a Prankster); I think BP as the core of a team is too easily countered but that's my personal preference. Relying on rain may seem like a bit of a problem, but you've got to remember that the opponent is likely to swap in Kingdra's checks early (Fairies) allowing you to ruin them with Hydro Pump and then when the rain disappears he can fall back on crit Draco Meteors. Some examples of what this set can do:

Hide

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Rain on a critical hit: 316-373 (48.4 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges in Rain on a critical hit: 285-337 (79.1 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
252+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile in Rain: 249-294 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain on a critical hit: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra on a critical hit: 306-363 (79.6 - 94.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 300-354 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The idea is to gauge their team - if they have a dragon and no fairies then set up a sub and kill them with Draco Meteor, using Focus Energy at your first available opportunity (or with Goodra you can use Focus Energy from the off as you outspeed). If they have a fairy (i.e. not Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill) use Focus Energy on the switch in - most fairies are notoriously slow and with the 252 HP investment you can take a hit from them and 2HKO with Hydro Pump (that is if you don't have a harder fairy counter left). If they're using Mega Mawile, use Hydro Pump on the switch and then finish them off with another Hydro Pump as again you outspeed (and can easily handle Sucker Punch, which only smart players would use in the first place). For fairies you can't handle, you can always hit with a Hydro Pump on the switch and then swap into a counter (Aegislash or eviolite Doublade would be my pick). SR is desired for the OHKOs and 2HKOs it can grant, and it goes without saying that Substitute protects against status plus helps to cushion against the non-ideal accuracy of Draco Meteor and Hydro Pump.

I guess beyond what I've outlined, Kingdra has nice resistances which if you couple with it's reasonable bulk should allow it to take out a few pokemon (you won't be able to get a full sweep with it's low speed). I also like how crits are unaffected by SAtk drops and hit through SpD boosts whilst themselves coming at boosted damage, allowing you to hit hard where other SAtk pokemon could not.

EDIT: Having tested the set out now, it's still a bit frail. On the right team, it could work well but it's not without its drawbacks.

 

[Kalut123]

If you need a Baton Passer, Scolipede is who you want. Combusken hinders teams more than helps them IMO. Scolipede, unlike Combusken, can actually have some form of offensive presence with his shiny new base 100 attack and powerful STAB Megahorn. You could even incorporate a mix of a late game cleaner/BPer set to help you out in a pinch.

Also, Kingdra has decent defenses and a great defensive typing, providing more than enough set up opportunities. Just pointing that out.

Not to mention, Scolipede is more likely to pass a sub on to Kingdra due to its fair amount of bulky; access to spikes/Toxic Spikes, and theoretically working synergistically with Kingdra by "removing" Fairies (though in fairness, they won't come until Kingdra comes out, but having access to Physical Poison STAB is tons better than the suicide baton passer that is Combusken...which requires Rapid Spin support to be effective).

Scolipede, through testing has proved to be an invaluable member, even helping my other mons to get a few speed boosts to creep up a bit.

I've got a set I think will work quite nicely, the idea here is to set up rain with a damp rock and then switch in Kingdra (preferably through a low speed Volt Switch so it comes in unscathed):

Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 HP
Modest Nature
- Focus Energy
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Substitute

I prefer this set to BP partners which get Kingdra's speed up as I always find BP sets too weak to Taunt or Trick/Switcheroo (particularly when coming from a Prankster); I think BP as the core of a team is too easily countered but that's my personal preference. Relying on rain may seem like a bit of a problem, but you've got to remember that the opponent is likely to swap in Kingdra's checks early (Fairies) allowing you to ruin them with Hydro Pump and then when the rain disappears he can fall back on crit Draco Meteors. Some examples of what this set can do:

Scolipede still has Protectto get past Taunters outside of Whimsicott, and even you still have that Poison STAB to deal with the bugger.
Though I find one of the calcs a bit odd..people run Blissey without max HP? I thought Blissey had an easier time dealing with Kingdra as they can tank the Dracos even without Special Defensive Investment.

 

[Jojobobo]

Scolipede still has Protectto get past Taunters outside of Whimsicott, and even you still have that Poison STAB to deal with the bugger. Though I find one of the calcs a bit odd..people run Blissey without max HP? I thought Blissey had an easier time dealing with Kingdra as they can tank the Dracos even without Special Defensive Investment.

Sableye is common and can Taunt and deal with Scolipede, in fact I use it quite regularly. For the Blissey stats I was just going off the B/W suggested build, I don't know if that's what's representative of what people run these days.

 

[Prom]

Hidden Power Fire is much better as the fourth move instead of Substitute. It OHKOs every variant of Ferrothorn, whose specially defensive sets would otherwise require a 2 or even 3-KO from Meteors. It also gives some easy KOs without having to risk a Hydro Pump miss, like on Scizor.

Alternatively, since your opponent will be switching to a counter, you can also run Yawn to force them to effectively lose a Poke by staying in, or give you free entry hazard damage and momentum by switching out.

 

[UR2L8]

isn't Kingdra's crit rate supposed to be 50%? 'm looking at Serebii's calcs and with focus energy and scope lens, it should be 50%
what am I missing?
Or am I mis informed?

 

[DaiGuren]

Dam this thing wrecks if anybody going against it is unprepared. I had to sacrifice my Genesect and use Explosion just to take this thing out.

 

[TheDoctor1]

isn't Kingdra's crit rate supposed to be 50%? 'm looking at Serebii's calcs and with focus energy and scope lens, it should be 50%
what am I missing?
Or am I mis informed?

So the reason it will always crit is b/c the crit chance got changed this gen. so now u start at level 0 which = 6/25% chance for a crit. not there are only 3 levels above this one with the highest being 100% crit rate. so you use focus energy which gives you +2 crit rate equaling 50% crit rate. then u add the item which adds one stage taking you to stage 3 which equals 100% crit rate

 

[UR2L8]

u start at level 0 which = 6/25% chance for a crit.

That doesn't make sense to me

But if Focus Energy is +2 Crit Rate instead of +1 Crit rate, then I would understand.

 

[Eminent Doom]

Sticky Web support is invaluable for Kingdra to sweep. I think it is the most essential form of support for Kingdra to be able to sweep. Sorry if I sound clueless, I'm new to this whole discussion stuff. Haha.

 

[Jaroda]

Ultimate counter? Shell Armor Freeze Dry bulky Lapras. :D Critical Rate means nothing and Freeze Dry will be 4x effective plus STAB.

 

[Ajwf]

I just faced this thing and I have to say, smogon really needs to ban focus energy :/ -6 Draco meteor is still doing neutral damage because crits ignore your minus drops. If you're slower than it, and it isn't hard with base 85 speed, you can't kill it as it is going to stop you cold. And shell armor lapras isn't even close to meta enough to consider using.

Hits 33% on chansey. -6 Draco meteor.
Hits 70% on SDef mega venusaur.
Scald ohko's Heatran, -6 outside of rain.
Scald does 40% to shield form aegislash invested in Sdef.

What in the hell do you do to stop this other than outspeed it?

I'm one of those people who fully support a non-hax tier (getting rid of crits, random 10% chance happenings and other happenings that would change the game but aren't reliable to begin with) and this is just infuriating to me to see something just always crit. A stall team is reduced to PP stalling it with whatever wall they have because kingdra ignores all stat drops.

 

[EternalZ]

Yeah, Lapras is the best counter. I used Kingdra and my friend used Lapras and I was totally murdered. Other Shell Armor pokemon do well against it, but Lapras is the ultimate hardcounter. The fact that Shell Armor Lapras is one of its best counters is laughable though, because no one will run that just for a kingdra. The Blobs also take pitiful damage from Crit Modest Draco, so they're hard counters too. Hitting them is a 3 or 4hko.

 

[DaiGuren]

I just faced this thing and I have to say, smogon really needs to ban focus energy :/ -6 Draco meteor is still doing neutral damage because crits ignore your minus drops. If you're slower than it, and it isn't hard with base 85 speed, you can't kill it as it is going to stop you cold. And shell armor lapras isn't even close to meta enough to consider using.

Hits 33% on chansey. -6 Draco meteor.
Hits 70% on SDef mega venusaur.
Scald ohko's Heatran, -6 outside of rain.
Scald does 40% to shield form aegislash invested in Sdef.

What in the hell do you do to stop this other than outspeed it?

I'm one of those people who fully support a non-hax tier (getting rid of crits, random 10% chance happenings and other happenings that would change the game but aren't reliable to begin with) and this is just infuriating to me to see something just always crit. A stall team is reduced to PP stalling it with whatever wall they have because kingdra ignores all stat drops.

Like I said, Crit Kingdra will demolish anything that doesnt have any answer to him, which is a dragon/fairy type move that is faster than base 85. Azumarill counts too but eh. Not a lot can muscle through, outspeed, and OHKO Kingdra's 75/95/95 defensive stats with a neutral hit, maybe MegaKang(who is equally broken in his own right), Terrakion's Close Combat, can't think of anything else.

I don't think Focus Energy or Kingdra is broken, its just that you have to take him into consideration as a formidable threat when making a team.

 

[Ajwf]

Isn't broken? How is being able to spam draco meteor when you should be at -6 not broken? Preparing for kingdra's focus energy set requires prep for two sides: Physical and special because if you don't outspeed, you don't win. So for a stall team, they need two counters that resist both sides since fairies aren't defensive enough to survive a water fall. Kingdra isn't broken, but crits every hit are.

 

[Tressed]

Isn't broken? How is being able to spam draco meteor when you should be at -6 not broken? Preparing for kingdra's focus energy set requires prep for two sides: Physical and special because if you don't outspeed, you don't win. So for a stall team, they need two counters that resist both sides since fairies aren't defensive enough to survive a water fall. Kingdra isn't broken, but crits every hit are.

What sounds better to you, Crits Kingdra or Swords Dance Mega Chomp? Kingdra is just another threat in a long list, it isn't going to change the game.
Ignore the text that says "Critical Hit!" and pretend that its a Nasty Plot Kingdra with LO Dragon Pulse if it makes you feel better.

 

[Ajwf]

Except when I wall one hit from draco meteor and it's attack is still that high? Please, you're comparing apples to oranges

Edit: While I respect mega chomp is way OP for stall, it IS technically it's job to break walls, even if it does have as much stats as arceus.

 

[DaiGuren]

Except when I wall one hit from draco meteor and it's attack is still that high? Please, you're comparing apples to oranges

Edit: While I respect mega chomp is way OP for stall, it IS technically it's job to break walls, even if it does have as much stats as arceus.

So, you think crits are broken because it ignores stat drops/increases?

 

[Ajwf]

I think it's broken because the auto-crit is a 2.25x mutliplier on kingdra, and when I can wall off one draco meteor (they then lose two stages) and be fairly safe normally, (a trade for having 120 BP), kingdra just ignores that. It hits a Nasty Plot + hit every time it attacks, at no matter what stage.

Yes, it seems specific to want focus energy gone for one (or two, since octillery...) pokemon but let's face it, No one used focus energy before so no one would really miss it for other strategies. It just isn't really a fair prospect to play against.

Edit: Rayquazza, outside of this, crits are hax. They have always been and should always be that way. Crits are game changing when they happen, why have the ability to allow them on every turn?

 

[DaiGuren]

Let's compare Kingdra to, say, Megachomp.

Kingdra fires off a 130 base bp move coming off from 95 base Sp.Atk, boosted by 1.5x(STAB) and 2.25x crit

MegaChomp fires off a 120 base bp move coming off from a massive 170 base Atk, boosted by 1.5x(STAB) and 2x(SD)

If you only look at that, you can see that Kingdra's firepower is actually less than Megachomp. I don't see anything broken in this? If you take Draco Meteor's stat drop out of the equation and look at the calcs above, you will see our point, that Kingdra is not broken.

It's more like you're biased cause you've always treated Draco Meteor as a one-time-only skill, but now that it can be spammed multiple times, you're complaining, when we have threats that are much more ridiculous that a crit draco meteor.

 

[Ajwf]

Let's say they both go after porygon2. Custom spread of 252/100/60 to give same defenses on both side.

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Eviolite Porygon2 on a critical hit: 276-325 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 172-204 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO

So yeah. I think there is reason to call difference. Also remember Kingdra fires this off again and is not locked into the move. Chomp is and you can bring in a counter well enough if needed. With full defensive investment (I was too lazy to invest all evs), Chomp isn't even getting a 2hko.

 

[Tressed]

Let's say they both go after porygon2. Custom spread of 252/100/60 to give same defenses on both side.

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Eviolite Porygon2 on a critical hit: 276-325 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 172-204 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO

So yeah. I think there is reason to call difference. Also remember Kingdra fires this off again and is not locked into the move. Chomp is and you can bring in a counter well enough if needed. With full defensive investment (I was too lazy to invest all evs), Chomp isn't even getting a 2hko.

You forgot to give Mega-Chomp the SD boost. Focus Energy is Kingdra's boosting move, saying that unboosted Mega-Chomp is outdamaged by boosted Kingdra isn't accurate in judging Kingdra's power in the slightest.

 

[MasterRyuga]

a Double Dance set can be used i have yet to try it but when i do this is what it would look like

Kingdra Item scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
Nature: Modest
Evs: 104Hp / 176SpAtk / 228Spe
Moveset:
-Focus Energy
-Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
-Hydro Pump/Surf/Brine
-Agility

Modest nature with 228 speed will outspeed choice scarf base 110+ but another set can be used for more bulk Timid will hit the same speed after agility as for bulk
timid: 180Hp / 192SpAtk / 136Spe of course you sacrifice power to be able to setup but kingdra is not very frail sporting base 75/95/95 should not be underestimated too. but this is all speculation of course nothing has been tested yet. i feel like this can be used well with a super fang team along with Brine since it gets double damage if the opponent is at half or less hp and will have a base 130 attack with 100acc. i also dont know if brine has been messed with so im not sure if it changed or not. but gimicky sure but how viable this can be is up to the support and how far your willing to go to make this work in general.should be fun to mess with. btw i dont know why the letters are so small lmao so forgive me

 

[Ash Borer]

What in the hell do you do to stop this other than outspeed it?

why would you want to do anything else? it has 85 base speed, it barely takes anything to outrun it.

 

[Pipotchi]

Let's say they both go after porygon2. Custom spread of 252/100/60 to give same defenses on both side.

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Eviolite Porygon2 on a critical hit: 276-325 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 172-204 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO

So yeah. I think there is reason to call difference. Also remember Kingdra fires this off again and is not locked into the move. Chomp is and you can bring in a counter well enough if needed. With full defensive investment (I was too lazy to invest all evs), Chomp isn't even getting a 2hko.

You gave Kingdra a free turn to focus energy in your calculations... Seriously though, I dont understand the issue. To gain a nasty plot boost kingdra has to sacrifice its ability and item, as well as one of its moveslots. What's more, this boost can only be gained once and cannot be used repeatedly to get to +4, +6 like other boosts. What's more, the focus energy moveset is predictable, you know draco meteor is on it, and you know he has no lum berry. Honestly there is nothing wrong with a base 85 speed pokemon with a special attack of under 100 gaining a ~+2 boost...

To put it into comparison, Sniper Crit Draco Meteor is the equivalent of a 140 base spa pokemon after a nasty plot using a 80BP move holding a life orb.

For instance, this damage is comparable (actually a little lower) to Timid Porygon-Z using a life orb + adaptability boosted tri-attack at +2 (a common set that already exists). However, PorygonZ also has 5 extra speed, and hits a ton harder with all of his other moves too. He also has a much wider, and less predictable movepool, and yet only resided in UU last gen. What's more, Porygon-Z will not be crippled by losing its item from Knock off or Trick.
Hopefully this helps to convince you that critdra is really not that broken at all, even though it undeniably hits hard.

edit: in my comparison I had to use modest critdra and timid porygon-Z because otherwise the tri-attack hit way harder. This means porygon-z is considerably faster than the kingdra and hits harder still.
Modest critdra hits about as hard as +2 modest porygon-z if it uses swift instead of tri-attack (lol)