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Ubers Kyogre

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Blue Jay, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Overview
    ########
    Formerly crowned the "King of Ubers," Kyogre struggles to hold onto its title as the generation shift nerfed its metagame-defining ability, Drizzle. Five turns of rain is still more than enough for the leviathan to drown most of the metagame, and it can occasionally be enough to support Kyogre's teammates, but it no longer allows rain-dependent Pokemon to be consistently effective.

    However, with its superb base 150 Special Attack, STAB moves that are boosted by rain, access to the incredibly powerful Water Spout, and excellent special bulk, Kyogre can perform a variety of offensive and defensive roles, ranging from a devastating wallbreaker to a powerful revenge killer to a sturdy wall that effortlessly shrugs off status.

    Although versatile and effective in its roles, Kyogre is not without its shortcomings. Its base 90 Speed is low for an offensive threat, and its mediocre physical bulk leaves it vulnerable to powerful physical attackers. Furthermore, as Kyogre takes damage, its most powerful attack, Water Spout, weakens considerably. Nevertheless, Kyogre remains a major threat for teams to prepare for.


    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf / Scald
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Modest / Timid

    Moves
    ========

    Equipped with a Choice Scarf, Kyogre gains the Speed it needs to be a powerful revenge killer and late-game cleaner. Water Spout is immensely powerful at full health, outdamaging even super effective Thunders and Ice Beams. It is Kyogre's main move, and allows it to OHKO many Pokemon that lack a resistance to Water. Surf provides Kyogre with a consistent STAB move unaffected by Kyogre's remaining HP (Water Spout is weaker than Surf when Kyogre is below 60%). As an alternative to Surf, Kyogre can use Scald, which is weaker but occasionally punishes opposing Pokemon with a burn, or Hydro Pump, which has greater power, but an unreliable 80% accuracy.

    Thunder gives Kyogre coverage against Flying-types and its fellow Water-types. It has perfect accuracy in the rain and a 30% paralysis rate, which can cripple switch-ins. Ice Beam rounds out Kyogre's coverage, hitting Grass- and Dragon-types super effectively.

    Set Details
    ========

    In order for Kyogre to revenge kill and clean effectively, Speed and Special Attack are maximized. A Modest nature is preferred, as it gives Kyogre additional power while still allowing it to outspeed most of the unboosted metagame, up to and including Mega Mewtwo Y. However, for teams that lack priority users to check Deoxys-A, Kyogre can use a Timid nature to outspeed it as well. A Timid nature also allows it to outspeed Adamant Mega-Blaziken after a single speed boost.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Choice Scarf Kyogre can be very powerful, but it relies on Water Spout for a lot of its might. Since Water Spout weakens significantly as Kyogre loses HP, Kyogre should be switched in conservatively, and if possible, into non-attacking moves or after a Pokemon has fainted. A teammate's U-turn or Volt Switch can help get it in safely. Surf should be used instead of Water Spout against powerful priority users, as their attacks can weaken Kyogre enough for Surf to outdamage Water Spout. Ice Beam must be used carefully, as it is quite weak and often fails to OHKO even targets that take super effective damage, such as Zekrom, without it being somewhat weakened.

    Team Options
    ========

    Mega Gengar excels at trapping and eliminating many of Kyogre's checks, such as Grass Arceus and Chansey, allowing Kyogre to devastate teams lacking multiple Pokemon that resist Water-type moves. Bulky Fairy-types such as Xerneas and Fairy Arceus can check Palkia, the primary check to Kyogre.

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor can help check the Electric-types and physical attackers that threaten Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Grass Arceus and Ferrothorn resist both of Kyogre's weaknesses and appreciate Drizzle mitigating their weakness to Fire-type moves. Grass Arceus can also check Palkia in rain. Ho-Oh can check Grass-types and forms a powerful offensive duo with Kyogre.

    Anti-hazard support such as Defog helps conserve Kyogre's HP and allows it to dish out powerful Water Spouts for as long as possible. Wish support from teammates such as Chansey, Blissey, or Sylveon is also highly beneficial to Kyogre for the same reason. Volt Switch and U-turn users such as Zekrom, Thundurus, and Scizor can help Kyogre switch in safely.


    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Donning a pair of Choice Specs, Kyogre forgoes Speed in order to become one of the most terrifying wallbreakers in the game. Its monstrous power pinnacles in Water Spout, which is so destructive that many Pokemon that resist it, and even Chansey - the sturdiest special wall in the game - cannot avoid a 2HKO. Surf is considerably weaker, but is still powerful and allows Kyogre to remain a potent force at low health. Hydro Pump can be used for more power, allowing Kyogre to retain the 2HKO on Chansey when weakened, but has unreliable accuracy.

    Thunder gives Kyogre coverage against Water- and Flying-types, while boasting perfect accuracy in rain and a 30% paralysis rate. Ice Beam serves as coverage against Grass- and Dragon-types.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs maximize Kyogre's offensive potential. A Timid nature is preferred, as Kyogre's rain-boosted STAB moves are so powerful that the drop is often insignificant. However, the additional power from a Modest nature can be helpful, especially for Kyogre's coverage moves. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe with a Modest nature can also be used, allowing Kyogre to survive more attacks from Pokemon that it cannot hope to outspeed.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Choice Specs Kyogre has overwhelming power but is quite slow, and is therefore generally most effective when used in a hit-and-run fashion. Kyogre often forces switches when it is brought in on Pokemon that it outspeeds and can OHKO, or on Pokemon that it threatens far more than they threaten it. These free turns should be used to deal as much damage as possible before retreating. Once Kyogre's checks have been sufficiently worn down or eliminated, it can usually proceed to use Water Spout or Surf mindlessly. Water Spout should only be used when an opposing Pokemon cannot threaten Kyogre significantly, can be outsped and OHKOed, or is highly likely to switch out, as Kyogre can become a liability when locked into Water Spout at low health.

    Team Options
    ========

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor can check Electric-types and physical attackers, which are some of the main threats to Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Grass Arceus and Ferrothorn resist the Electric- and Grass-type attacks that threaten Kyogre, while the rain it summons protects them from Fire-type attacks. In rain, Grass Arceus can also check Palkia effectively. Ho-Oh also resists Grass-type attacks and is a powerful physical wallbreaking counterpart to Kyogre. Bulky Fairy-types can also help Kyogre by checking Palkia, its main check.

    Anti-hazard support, such as Defog, helps preserve Kyogre from hazard damage, which weakens its Water Spout. Kyogre also appreciates Wish support in order to maintain Water Spout's high power, as well as mitigate its inability to heal otherwise. Volt Switch and U-turn users can be used to bring Kyogre in safely and give it the momentum to devastate teams with Water Spout.

    Paralysis or Tailwind support is very helpful, as Kyogre's middling Speed is one of its greatest weaknesses.


    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    nature: Calm

    Moves
    ========

    With maximum investment in HP and Special Defense, Kyogre becomes a durable special wall, capable of checking powerful threats such as Geomancy Xerneas. Scald allows Kyogre to wear down offensive Pokemon and spread burns, potentially crippling physical attackers that could overpower it. Kyogre can utilize Roar to prevent setup sweepers from taking advantage of it, and in tandem with entry hazard support, it can wear down its own checks. Rest allows Kyogre to restore health and remove status, giving it the longevity it needs to function as an effective wall, and Sleep Talk prevents opponents taking advantage of its turns spent asleep.

    Set Details
    ========

    A Calm nature and the given EVs maximize Kyogre's special bulk in order to allow it to absorb powerful special attacks. A spread of 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD can be used to improve its physical defense while retaining great special bulk, allowing it to better check physical attackers, support Groudon, and both Mega Mewtwo formes.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set should be used not for offensive presence, but rather for longevity and durability. With enormous special bulk, a chance to burn opponents, Roar, and the ability to heal off damage and status, Kyogre is very difficult to overpower or wear down. However, it must be wary of physical and mixed attackers, as most powerful physical attacks will 2HKO it. Ideally, Rest should be used against Pokemon that can do little damage to Kyogre, as Kyogre is easier to take advantage of while asleep and must survive for two turns before it can use Rest again. Roar can be used on predicted switches to wear down Kyogre's checks with entry hazard damage.

    Team Options
    ========

    This Kyogre set is considerably weaker than the others and lacks coverage, as it focuses on walling threats. Entry hazards and Toxic users can considerably help wear down the opponents that take little damage from Scald. Some notable hazard setters are Landorus-T, Dialga, Groudon, and Ferrothorn. Good Toxic users include Landorus-T, Groudon, Ho-Oh, and defensive Yveltal.

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor have excellent synergy with Kyogre; it can absorb powerful special attacks, while they can absorb powerful physical attacks. Kyogre also resists the Ice- and Water-type moves they are weak to, while they are immune to the Electric-type moves that threaten Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Grass Arceus and Ferrothorn also have excellent synergy with it, resisting both Grass- and Electric-type moves, while Kyogre resists Fire- and Ice-type moves. Ho-Oh also resists the Grass-type attacks that threaten Kyogre.

    Thunder Wave
    ########
    name: Thunder Wave
    move 1: Thunder Wave
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
    nature: Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Kyogre can effectively utilize Thunder Wave, as its good special bulk and ability to force switches allow it to easily spread paralysis. Surf is a powerful STAB move that heavily damages most Pokemon that do not resist it. Scald can also be used for its chance to burn opposing Pokemon, although this can occasionally interfere with Kyogre's attempts to paralyze opponents . Thunder hits Water- and Flying-types hard and has an additional 30% chance to paralyze, while Ice Beam breaks through Grass- and Dragon-types.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs and the Modest nature maximize Kyogre's power and bulk, as it will outspeed any paralyzed opponents. Hydro Pump can be used for additional power, although Surf is more consistent and this set is more focused on spreading paralysis than dealing damage. A Lum Berry can be used to allow Kyogre to function as a check to Darkrai or avoid status once, but the Leftovers recovery helps Kyogre spread paralysis for longer.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As this set is uncommon, it has a surprise value that can help Kyogre cripple key threats with Thunder Wave. Because using Thunder Wave reveals the set, the first use of the move should be chosen carefully. Taking damage should be avoided early on if possible, as this allows Kyogre to bluff a Choice set. Thunder Wave must be used carefully if the opponent has Electric-type Pokemon, as they can use their paralysis immunity to switch in and force Kyogre out.

    Team Options
    ========

    Wish support from the likes of Chansey, Blissey, and Sylveon helps Kyogre spread paralysis for as long as possible, as even with bulk investment and Leftovers, Kyogre lacks much longevity.

    As this set sacrifices significant offensive utility for the ability to spread paralysis, powerful wallbreakers such as Ho-Oh, Kyurem-W, and Zekrom pair well with it, as their main shortcoming, a lack of Speed, is mitigated by paralyzed opponents.

    Other Options
    ########

    Calm Mind allows Kyogre to become immensely powerful and specially bulky, and can be used on offensive sets with three attacks or more defensive sets alongside Rest and Sleep Talk. However, Kyogre's low Speed and exploitable Defense give it poor staying power, making the more immediate power of Choice Specs more appealing. The short duration of rain also hampers the utility of such sets, as they rely on staying on the field, sometimes for longer than the rain will last.

    Substitute can be used to avoid status and ease prediction, but the loss of Water Spout hurts Kyogre's offensive capabilities. Furthermore, with only Leftovers recovery, Kyogre struggles to use Substitute repeatedly.

    Blizzard can be used instead of Ice Beam for significantly greater power, but it is very unreliable due to its 70% accuracy.

    Toxic can be used in a similar manner as Thunder Wave, but Kyogre is generally outclassed as a Toxic user and is more suitable to performing other roles.

    Kyogre can hold a Damp Rock in order to extend the duration of rain to eight turns, but as Kyogre is rarely able to stay on the field for more than five turns and the item has far less utility than many others, a team must benefit from rain substantially for it to be worthwhile.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Choice Scarf and Choice Specs Kyogre are so powerful that teams almost invariably need solid checks to them, or at least a bulky Pokemon that resists Water and has ways to pressure Kyogre.

    **Palkia**: Palkia can safely switch in on Kyogre, fearing only a boosted Thunder, and can threaten Kyogre with a powerful Thunder of its own. However, if Palkia lacks Rest, it will struggle against RestTalk Kyogre.

    **Grass Arceus**: Grass Arceus shrugs off most of Kyogre's attacks with ease, threatens it with Grass Knot or Judgment, and has reliable recovery. However, Grass Arceus must beware of Mega Gengar, which can trap and eliminate it.

    **Gastrodon**: Gastrodon hard counters any Kyogre set lacking Calm Mind and Ice Beam due to its bulk and immunity to both Water- and Electric-type moves, and it can wear Kyogre down with Toxic or retaliate with Mirror Coat. However, Gastrodon is highly situational and can be easily taken advantage of by other Pokemon.

    *Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can switch into any move barring a Choice Specs Water Spout or Hydro Pump, and can wear Kyogre down with Leech Seed or threaten it with Power Whip, although Scald burns will hamper it.

    **Amoonguss**: Amoonguss can effortlessly absorb any attack from Kyogre except a boosted Ice Beam, threaten it with Grass Knot, and heal itself with Regenerator. Major threats such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal can freely switch into it, though.

    **Chansey/Blissey**: Chansey and Blissey avoid a 2HKO from any move outside of a Choice Specs-boosted Water Spout or Hydro Pump, and can wear Kyogre down with Toxic or Seismic Toss. However, they are vulnerable to being trapped and removed by Mega Gengar.

    **Abomasnow**: Although Scald burns hamper it, (Mega) Abomasnow can switch in easily if Stealth Rock is absent, and wear down Kyogre with Leech Seed or threaten it with Wood Hammer or Grass Knot.

    **Bulky Water-types**: Water Arceus and RestTalk Kyogre can safely switch into any move other than Thunder, but both struggle to hurt Kyogre in return. Since the five turn counter for rain is not replenished if a different Drizzle user is switched in, opposing Kyogre often only have limited turns to take advantage of the rain too.

    **Giratina**: Specially defensive Giratina can absorb any attack but a boosted Ice Beam, but it struggles to do much to Kyogre in return.

    **Dialga**: Support Dialga can survive any attack from Kyogre and hit hard with Thunder, but it will most often be unable to switch in safely.

    **Zekrom**: Without prior damage, Zekrom can survive any attack but a Choice Specs-boosted Water Spout or Ice Beam and OHKO Kyogre with Bolt Strike.

    **Groudon**: Even with significant investment in Special Defense, Groudon is heavily damaged by most of Kyogre's moves, but it can come in after Kyogre has KOed a Pokemon or act as an emergency check, destroying Kyogre's momentum thanks to Drought.

    **Revenge Killers**: As Kyogre is fairly slow, many offensive Pokemon can revenge kill it once it has been sufficiently weakened. Choice Scarf Kyogre is outsped by many opposing Choice Scarf users such as Xerneas and Genesect. Powerful priority users such as Arceus, Yveltal, and Mega Kangaskhan can pick off Kyogre or severely weaken its Water Spout.

    **Entry Hazards**: Entry hazards can help to weaken Kyogre's Water Spout, mitigating the threat it presents.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  2. polop

    polop
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    Aw poor kyogre's getting ignored :(.

    A mention that Sdef can check Geomancy Xerneas is needed IMO.

    In my opinion, Twave should be its own set b/c it can still troll Palkia, especially since so many of them are running AV. It also messes with Rest Kia, because that really excels at absorbing a hit to find what move Ogre is locked into and doesn't like staying in on it. Its also really good at spreading status. I don't think it should be locked into OO.

    The other sets fell out of grace due to drizzle nerf IMO. Mono CM can't sweep with the same power anymore (it was heavily reliant on rain for power as it mostly invested in HP + Def to boost), ChestoRest can setup, but by the time it does rain will be gone. SubCM was supposed to setup on Gyro Ball Ferro + Chansey last gen, its got issues similar to ChestoRest and Ferro's really fallen out of grace due to drizzle.

    For counters make sure you mention that Arceus-Water can't really do much back, in fact the best it only really can do is Recover spam until rain is up and force a switch and / or Toxic (but this is kinda risky since Specs Spout 2HKOes (so it can't come in and use it), and Scarf Spout 3HKOes).

    Mega Abomasnow hates burn b/c it lacks lefties or any recovery outside of leech seed. Needs Stealth Rock off the field.

    I wanna say mention Specially Defensive Giratina-a as a check as well but really running a wall like that this gen is kinda awkward, you DID mention Gastrodon though so...

    There's a somewhat similar deal with Shedinja, except its viability has always been in question, defog DID help though.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  3. Piexplode

    Piexplode

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    If you mention gastro in C&Cs, you must emphasise the m-gengar weakness, same with sheddy.. clearly Kyogre+M-gengar is a great part of a team and together if u run a counter like those for it you're stuffed.
  4. Donkey

    Donkey

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    why is there no mention of 3 attack twave kyogre? it was ass last gen, but this gen it rapes palkia ;O

    i think that set is more legit this meta than previous meta

    also, you should test sub kyogre, cm 3 atks, chesto rest etc cause that stuff could also be good.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
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  5. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    For Checks & Counters:
    I felt Gastrodon deserved mention as being essentially a hard counter to any Kyogre set that does not run CM + Substitute/Rest + Ice Beam (so that it can boost Ice Beam to beat Gastrodon and avoid Toxic), which is essentially all the sensible sets. It is by all means not a good Pokemon to use otherwise, and this will be emphasized in the analysis (if it gets mentioned at all). Also, as far as Mega-Gengar goes, it usually lacks coverage on Gastrodon and does not like to take Earth Power/Mirror Coat, so Gastrodon is not particularly weak to it.

    Shedinja is not weak to Mega-Gengar, as Ghost types can switch out of Shadow Tag. However, I will not mention it since it was already rejected for an analysis by QC (unless someone from QC insists on its mention).

    Will add the other stuff mentioned.

    As for which sets deserve analyses, I've now tested CM + 3 attacks and must say that it was very underwhelming. It could mess with some Kyogre checks like Palkia to an extent, and some teams were seriously troubled by the prospect of a +1 Kyogre, but for most part I would rather have had Specs, even if that would require some more predictions. Without Water Spout it simply is not nearly as threatening, while a lot of its currently popular checks still beat it, and the increased usage of powerful physical attackers (especially Zekrom) means it cannot capitalize on its set up significantly against many teams. Its advantages over Specs seem to rely entirely on its match up, and therefore I would shove it into OO.

    Polop likes Thunder Wave Kyogre, and unlike Calm Mind, the benefits of Thunder Wave persist if Kyogre is forced out (apart from status healing). It lacks power, but supports the team somewhat. I'll test this for myself to get a feel for it, since I've heard some mixed feedback about it.

    MonoCM was really crippled by the weather nerf, and when I tried it I found myself missing Roar > CM a lot of the time. It does find the time to get some Calm Minds, and status absorption is really nice in this meta, but nonetheless it didn't seem particularly great. I also feel that monoCM Arceus (as hard as it is to give up on support Arceus) just does this better.

    I'd rather not test ChestoRest and subCM if it's not necessary. I feel like they are so similar to CM + 3 attacks that they will share a lot of its shortcomings (many Ogre checks can still adequately deal with them, the power isn't that great, and the popularity of strong physical attackers is troublesome), and something like ChestoRest feels very awkward in this meta, being neither a short-lived powerhouse for more offensive teams, nor having proper longevity for more balanced or stallish approaches.

    Thanks for the feedback everyone! This should be ready for QC soon if I just get some of the weird sets tested and written up.
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  6. polop

    polop
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    MM2 and I discussed the changes we wanted on this analysis with you on IRC, and since you've implemented them:

    QC: 1/3
  7. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Thanks polop!

    I've also updated the Checks & Counters section to fit the new format. The situational checks section is kinda empty, but filling it with stuff is kinda meh when you pretty much need something solid against Kyogre. Zekrom could maybe be mentioned, but it hates burns vs defensive sets and can't really switch in on offensive sets, only come in on resisted hits (or unboosted Ice Beam at literally 100% health).
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  8. Piexplode

    Piexplode

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    Does Yveltal count as a situational check? Even on the phys def set, a foul play on the switch in + a sucker punch KOs it, and sucker punch itself can weaken the spout to tolerable levels..
  9. polop

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    A situational check is something that can come in on some move (not all) or after something has been sacked and stop Kyogre. Zekrom can come in on thunder and threaten with Bolt Strike so it counts, that section should generally have revenge killers + mons that can barely switch in over there.

    I'm not sure about Yveltal, Sucker Punch hits like a truck + weakens spout, but it really can't switch into any move, so it would sort of be a bottom of the barrel situational check. Priority in general I guess can be mentioned as a last ditch resort for weakening choiced spout with Arceus Normal and Yvletal being the primary users.
  10. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    Alright, so we are doing the checks/counters section like last gen (yay). I trust you enough to come up with a decent order for them (the beauty is that it doesn't have to be an exact science), I feel it's worth mentioning Zekrom because it can switch in on surfs/risk scalds and is hella scary with that Bolt Strike and make sure Palkia is the first mention cause its generally the best check to it.

    QC Approved 2/3
    [​IMG]
  11. Pokemon Trainer AZ

    Pokemon Trainer AZ

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    Soul Dew Latias is absolutely a soft counter, at least
  12. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Not released.
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  13. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Finally got 'round to writing this up, sorry it took so long, but I have my exams after the winter break.

    Feedback on whether I should flesh things out more (Groudon seemed to have more, but I feel like I covered things well enough, maybe Kyogre is just more straightforward), how I split up the paragraphs and especially how I ended up dividing Checks & Counters would be nice. Along with anything else that might need changing or adding, of course.
  14. Piexplode

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    Does Band need a mention in OO? Gets around a lot of its checks and counters..
  15. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Like...what exactly? If anything it leaves you walled by more stuff (Water-Arc can burn you, Giratina formes wall you, Ferrothorn lols) and the damage output is still way lower than Specs.
  16. Piexplode

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    It was just discussed in chat the other day and I think Steel was saying how (whilst it's not as good as last gen) it's not a total joke.

    If it is ridiculous then ignore me.
  17. Melee Mewtwo

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    Somebody stamp this, it's ready.
  18. Hack

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    QC Approved 3/3

    I'd just like a small mention of sdef Groudon/sun weakening STAB water in CC, it can turn momentum against Kyogre with proper team support (and thunder wave Scarf variants on the lead spot easily)
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  19. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Ok, so im gonna gp this. But before that, can you please change to curly quotes you have to smogon's straight apostrophes (')? Also, commas go inside quotation marks. Thanks.
    @bluej edit: fail tagging but w/e
    Edit2: also rain isnt capitalized
  20. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Fixed all of that, thanks in advance. :)
  21. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    DONE! I made some changes, and hopefully this helps! :)
    This analysis is excellent, though it's a bit confusing at times. For future analyses, don't forget your oxford comma - Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor
    Removals
    Additions
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    NEW (open)

    Overview
    ########
    Formerly crowned the "King of Ubers," Kyogre struggles to hold onto its title as the generation shift nerfed its metagame-defining ability, Drizzle. Five turns of rain is still more than enough for the leviathan to drown most of the metagame, and it can occasionally be enough to support Kyogre's teammates, but it no longer allows rain-dependent Pokemon to be consistently effective.

    However, with its superb base 150 Special Attack, rain-boosted STAB, access to the incredibly powerful Water Spout, and excellent special bulk, Kyogre can perform a variety of offensive and defensive roles, from a devastating wallbreaker or a powerful revenge killer to a sturdy wall that effortlessly shrugs off status.

    Though versatile and effective in its roles, Kyogre is not without its shortcomings. Its base 90 Speed is low for an offensive threat, and its mediocre physical bulk leaves it vulnerable to powerful physical attackers. Furthermore, as Kyogre takes damage, its most powerful attack, Water Spout, weakens considerably. Nevertheless, Kyogre remains a major threat for teams to prepare for.


    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf / Scald
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    ability: Drizzle
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    Equipped with a Choice Scarf, Kyogre gains the speed it needs to be a powerful revenge killer and late-game cleaner. Water Spout is immensely powerful at full power, outdamaging even super effective Thunders and Ice Beams. It is Kyogre's main move, and allows it to OHKO many Pokemon without a Water-type resistance. Surf provides Kyogre with a consistent STAB move unaffected by Kyogre's remaining HP (Water Spout is weaker than Surf at 60% and below). As an alternative to Surf, Kyogre can use Scald, which is weaker but occasionally punishes opposing Pokemon with a burn, or Hydro Pump, which has greater power, but an unreliable 80% accuracy.

    Thunder gives Kyogre coverage on Flying-types and its fellow Water-types. It has perfect accuracy in the rain and a 30% paralysis rate, which can cripple switch-ins. Ice Beam rounds out Kyogre's coverage, hitting Grass- and Dragon-types super effectively.

    Set Details
    ========

    In order for Kyogre to revenge kill and clean effectively, speed and power are maximized. A Modest nature is preferred, as it gives Kyogre additional power while allowing it to outspeed most of the unboosted metagame, up to and including Mega Mewtwo Y. However, for teams lacking priority users to check Deoxys-A, Kyogre can use a Timid nature.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Choice Scarf Kyogre can be very powerful, but it relies on Water Spout for a lot of its power. As Water Spout weakens significantly as Kyogre loses HP, Kyogre should be switched in conservatively, and if possible, into non-attacking moves or after a Pokemon has died. A teammate's U-turn or Volt Switch can help get it in safely. Surf should be used instead of Water Spout against powerful priority users, as their attacks may weaken Kyogre enough for Surf to outdamage Water Spout. Ice Beam must be used carefully, as it is quite weak and often fails to OHKO even super effective targets such as Zekrom without some prior damage.

    Team Options
    ========

    Mega Gengar excels at trapping and eliminating many of Kyogre's checks, often allowing Kyogre to devastate teams lacking multiple Water-type resists. Bulky Fairy-types such as Xerneas and Arceus-Fairy can check Palkia, the primary check to Kyogre.

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor help to check Electric-types that threaten Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn resist both of Kyogre's weaknesses and appreciate Drizzle mitigating their weakness to Fire-type moves. Arceus-Grass can also check Palkia in rain. Ho-Oh can check Grass-types and forms a powerful offensive duo with Kyogre.

    Anti-hazard support such as Defog helps to conserve Kyogre's HP and allows it to dish out powerful Water Spouts for as long as possible. Wish support is also highly beneficial to Kyogre for the same reason. Volt Switch and U-turn users such as Zekrom, Thundurus, and Scizor can help Kyogre switch in safely.


    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    ability: Drizzle
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    Donning a pair of Choice Specs, Kyogre forgoes speed to become one of the most terrifying wallbreakers in the game. Its monstrous power pinnacles in Water Spout, which is so destructive that many Pokemon that resist it are 2HKOed and Chansey, the sturdiest special wall in the game, cannot wall it. Surf is considerably weaker, but is still powerful and allows Kyogre to remain a potent force at low health. Hydro Pump can be used for more power, allowing Kyogre to retain the 2HKO on Chansey when weakened, but has unreliable accuracy.

    Thunder gives Kyogre coverage against Water- and Flying-types, while boasting perfect accuracy in rain and a crippling 30% paralysis rate. Ice Beam serves as coverage against Grass- and Dragon-types.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs maximize Kyogre's offensive potential. A Timid nature is preferred, as Kyogre's rain-boosted STAB moves are so powerful that the power drop is often insignificant. However, the additional power from a Modest nature can be helpful, especially for Kyogre's coverage moves. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe with a Modest nature can also be used, allowing Kyogre to survive more attacks from Pokemon which it cannot hope to outspeed.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Choice Specs Kyogre has overwhelming power but is quite slow, and is therefore generally most effective when used in a hit and run fashion. Kyogre often forces switches when it is brought in on Pokemon that it outspeeds and can OHKO, or on Pokemon which it threatens far more than they threaten it. These free turns should be used to deal as much damage as possible before retreating. Once Kyogre's checks have been sufficiently worn down or eliminated, it can usually proceed to spam Water Spout or Surf. Water Spout should only be used when an opposing Pokemon cannot threaten Kyogre significantly, can be outsped and OHKOed, or is highly likely to switch out, as Kyogre can become a liability when locked into Water Spout at low health.

    Team Options
    ========

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor help to check Electric-types and physical attackers that threaten Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn also resist both of Kyogre's weaknesses, while rain protects them from Fire-type attacks. In rain, Arceus-Grass can also check Palkia effectively. Ho-Oh resists Grass-type attacks and is a powerful physical wallbreaking counterpart to Kyogre. Bulky Fairy-types also help Kyogre by checking Palkia, its main check.

    Anti-hazard support such as Defog helps to conserve Kyogre's HP and allows it to dish out powerful Water Spouts for as long as possible. Wish support is also highly beneficial to Kyogre for the same reason. Volt Switch and U-turn users such as Zekrom, Thundurus, and Scizor can help Kyogre switch in safely.

    Paralysis or Tailwind support is very helpful, as Kyogre's middling speed is one of its greatest weaknesses.


    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    ability: Drizzle
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    Moves
    ========

    With maximum investment in HP and Special Defense, Kyogre becomes a durable special wall, capable of checking powerful threats such as Geomancy Xerneas. Scald allows Kyogre to wear down offensive Pokemon and spread burns, potentially crippling physical attackers that can possibly overpower it. Kyogre can utilize Roar to prevent setup sweepers from taking advantage of it, and in tandem with entry hazard support, can wear down its own checks. Rest allows Kyogre to restore health and remove status, giving it the longevity it needs to function as an effective wall, and Sleep Talk prevents opponents taking advantage of its sleep turns.

    Set Details
    ========

    A Calm nature and the given EVs maximize Kyogre's special bulk in order to allow it to absorb powerful special attacks. A spread of 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD can be used to improve its physical defense while retaining great special bulk, allowing it to better check physical attackers, support Groudon, and both Mega Mewtwo forms.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set should be used not for offensive presence, but for longevity and durability. With enormous special bulk, a chance to burn opponents, Roar, and the ability to heal off damage and status, Kyogre is very difficult to overpower or wear down. However, it must be wary of physical and mixed attackers, as most powerful physical attacks will 2HKO it. Ideally, Rest should be used against Pokemon that can do little to Kyogre, as Kyogre is easier to take advantage of while asleep and must survive for two turns before it can Rest again. Roar can be used on predicted switches to wear down Kyogre's checks with entry hazard damage.

    Team Options
    ========

    This Kyogre set is considerably weaker than the others and lacks coverage, as it focuses on walling threats. Entry hazards and Toxic users help considerably in wearing down opponents that take little damage from Scald. Some notable hazard users are Landorus-T, Dialga, Groudon, and Ferrothorn. Landorus-T, Groudon, Ho-Oh, and defensive Yveltal are good Toxic users.

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor help to check Electric-types and physical attackers that threaten Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn resist both of Kyogre's weaknesses and thrive in rain. Ho-Oh also resists Grass-type attacks.

    Thunder Wave
    ########
    name: Thunder Wave
    move 1: Thunder Wave
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    ability: Drizzle
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA

    Moves
    ========

    Kyogre can also effectively utilize Thunder Wave, due to its good special bulk and its ability to force switches. Thunder Wave defines the set, and allows Kyogre to spread paralysis. Surf is a powerful STAB move that heavily damages most Pokemon that do not resist it. Scald can also be used for its chance to burn opposing Pokemon, although this may interfere with Kyogre's attempts to spread paralysis. Thunder hits Water- and Flying-types hard and has a 30% chance to paralyze, while Ice Beam smashes Grass- and Dragon-types.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs and the Modest nature maximize Kyogre's power and bulk, as it will outspeed any paralyzed opponents. Hydro Pump can be used for additional power, although Surf is more consistent and this set is more focused on spreading paralysis than dealing damage. A Lum Berry can be used to allow Kyogre to function as a check to Darkrai or avoid status once, but the Leftovers recovery helps Kyogre spread paralysis for longer.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set is uncommon, giving it surprise value that can help Kyogre cripple key threats with Thunder Wave. As using Thunder Wave reveals the set, the first use of the move should be chosen carefully. Damage should be avoided early on if possible, as this allows the bluffing of a Choice set. Thunder Wave must be used carefully if the opponent has Electric-type Pokemon, as they can use their paralysis immunity to switch in and force Kyogre out.

    Team Options
    ========

    Wish support is helpful to allow Kyogre to spread paralysis for as long as possible, as even with bulk investment and Leftovers, Kyogre lacks longevity.

    As this set sacrifices significant offensive utility for the ability to spread paralysis, powerful wallbreakers such as Ho-Oh, Kyurem-W, and Zekrom pair well with it, as their main shortcoming, a lack of speed, is mitigated by paralysis.

    Other Options

    Calm Mind allows Kyogre to become immensely powerful and specially bulky, and can be used on offensive sets with three attacks or more defensive sets alongside Rest and Sleep Talk. However, Kyogre's low speed and exploitable physical defense give it poor staying power, making the more immediate power of Choice Specs more appealing. The short duration of rain also hampers the utility of such sets, as they rely on staying on the field, sometimes for longer than the rain will last.

    Substitute can be used to avoid status and ease prediction, but the loss of Water Spout hurts Kyogre's offensive capabilities. Furthermore, with only Leftovers recovery, Kyogre struggles to use Substitute repeatedly.

    Blizzard can be used instead of Ice Beam for significantly greater power, but it is very unreliable due to its 70% accuracy.

    Toxic can be used in a similar manner as Thunder Wave, but Kyogre is generally outclassed as a Toxic user and is more suitable to performing other roles.

    Kyogre can hold a Damp Rock in order to extend the duration of rain to eight turns, but as Kyogre is rarely able to stay on the field for more than five turns and the item has far less utility than many others, a team must benefit from rain substantially for the item to be worthwhile.


    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Choice Scarf and Choice Specs Kyogre are so powerful that teams almost invariably need solid checks to them, or at least a bulky Water-resist and ways to pressure Kyogre.

    **Palkia**: Palkia can safely switch into Kyogre, fearing only boosted Thunders, and threatens Kyogre with a powerful Thunder of its own. If Palkia lacks Rest though, it will struggle against RestTalk Kyogre.

    **Arceus-Grass**: Arceus-Grass shrugs off most of Kyogre's attacks with ease, threatens it with Grass Knot or Judgment, and has reliable recovery. Arceus-Grass must beware of Mega Gengar, which can trap and eliminate it.

    **Gastrodon**: Gastrodon hard counters any Kyogre set lacking Calm Mind and Ice Beam due to its bulk and immunities to Water- and Electric-type moves, and can wear Kyogre down with Toxic or retaliate with Mirror Coat. However, Gastrodon is highly specialized and can be easily taken advantage of by other Pokemon.

    *Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can switch into any move but Choice Specs Water Spout or Hydro Pump and wear Kyogre down with Leech Seed or threaten it with Power Whip, although Scald burns can hamper it.

    **Amoonguss**: Amoonguss effortlessly absorbs any attack but a boosted Ice Beam, threatens Kyogre with Grass Knot, and heals with Regenerator. Major threats such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal can freely switch into it though.

    **Chansey/Blissey**: Chansey and Blissey avoid a 2HKO from any move outside of a Choice Specs Water Spout or Hydro Pump, and can wear Kyogre down with Toxic or Seismic Toss. However, they are vulnerable to being trapped and removed by Mega Gengar.

    **Abomasnow**: Though Scald burns can hamper it,(Mega) Abomasnow can switch in easily in the absence of Stealth Rock, and wear Kyogre down with Leech Seed or threaten it with Wood Hammer or Grass Knot.

    **Bulky Water-types**: Arceus-Water and RestTalk Kyogre can safely switch into any move but Thunder, but both struggle to hurt Kyogre in return. Since the five turn counter for rain is not replenished if a different Drizzle user is switched in, opposing Kyogre often only have limited turns to take advantage of the rain too.

    **Giratina**: Specially defensive Giratina can absorb any attack but a Choice Specs Ice Beam, but it struggles to do much to Kyogre in return.

    **Dialga**: Support Dialga can survive any attack from Kyogre and hit it hard with Thunder, but cannot switch into its most powerful attacks.

    **Zekrom**: Without prior damage, Zekrom can survive any attack but a Choice Specs Water Spout or Ice Beam and OHKO Kyogre with Bolt Strike.

    **Groudon**: Even with significant investment in Special Defense, Groudon is heavily damaged by most of Kyogre's moves, but it can come in after Kyogre has KOed a Pokemon or act as an emergency check, ruining Kyogre's momentum with Drought.

    **Revenge Killing**: As Kyogre is fairly slow, many offensive Pokemon can revenge kill it when it is sufficiently weakened. Choice Scarf Kyogre is outsped by many opposing Choice Scarf users such as Xerneas and Genesect. Powerful priority users such as Arceus-Normal, Yveltal, and Mega Kangaskhan can pick it off or weaken its Water Spout.

    **Entry Hazards**: Entry hazards can help to weaken Kyogre's Water Spout, thereby mitigating the threat it presents.


    CHANGES (open)

    Overview
    ########
    Formerly crowned the "King of Ubers," Kyogre struggles to hold onto its title as the generation shift robsnerfed it of thes metagame-defining ability to summon lasting rain, Drizzle. Five turns of rain is still more than enough for the leviathan to drown most of the metagame, and it can still occasionally be enough to support itKyogre's teammates, but it no longer allows it to enable the use ofrain-dependent Pokemon which depend on rain to beto be consistently effective.

    NonethelessHowever, with its superb base 150 Special Attack, STAB rain-boosted by DrizzleSTAB, access to the incredibly powerful Water Spout, and excellent special bulk, Kyogre can perform a variety of offensive and defensive roles, from a devastating wallbreaker or a powerful revenge killer to a sturdy wall whichthat effortlessly shrugs off status effortlessly.

    VThough versatile and more than capabeffective in its roles, Kyogre is not without its shortcomings. Its base 90 Speed is towards the low end oflow for an offensive threats in the tier, and its mediocre physical bulk can leaves it vulnerable to powerful physical attackers. IFurthermore, as Kyogre takes damage, its most powerful attack, Water Spout, also weakens considerably as it takes damage. Nevertheless, Kyogre remains a major threat for teams to prepare for.


    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf / Scald
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    ability: Drizzle
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP

    Moves
    ========

    Equipped with a Choice Scarf, Kyogre gains all the Sspeed it needs to be a powerful revenge killer and late-game cleaner. Water Spout is immensely powerful at full power, outdamaging even super effective Thunders or Ice Beams in the rain (or in neutral weather in the case ofand Ice Beam)s. There's no reason to mention weather, as with Thunder's nerf, Water Spout is always stronger outside of sun. (150 BP*1.5 STAB = 225 vs. 110 BP*2 SE = 220.) It is theKyogre's main move, and allowing Kyogres it to OHKO many Pokemon even without super effective coveraga Water-type resistance. Surf provides Kyogre with a consistent STAB, as Water Spout weakens as it loses move unaffected by Kyogre's remaining HP (becomingWater Spout is weaker than Surf at 60% HPand below). As an alternative to Surf, Kyogre can also use Scald, which is somewhat weaker, but occasionally punishes opposing Pokemon with a burn. Alternatively, it can also useor Hydro Pump instead of Surf or Scald for, which has greater power at low health, but its, but an unreliable 80% accuracy can cause it to miss at crucial times.

    Thunder gives Kyogre coverage on its fellow WaterFlying-types and hits the popular Flyingfellow Water-types of the tier hard. It also has perfect accuracy in the rain and a 30% paralysis rate, which can cripple switch-ins. Ice Beam rounds out Kyogre's coverage, hitting Grass- and Dragon-types super effectively.

    Set Details
    ========

    In order for Kyogre to revenge kill and clean effectively, speed and power are maximized. A Modest nature is preferred, as it gives Kyogre additional power while still allowing it to outspeed most of the unboosted metagame, up to and including Mega- Mewtwo Y. Timid can hHowever be used on, for teams lacking priority users to check Deoxys-A, Kyogre can use a Timid nature.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Choice Scarf Kyogre can be very powerful, but it relies on Water Spout for a lot of its power. As Water Spout weakens significantly as Kyogre loses HP, itKyogre should be switched in conservatively where, and if possible, into non-attacking moves or after a Pokemon has died. A teammate's U-Tturn andor Volt Switch can also be used to enablehelp get it to switch in safely. Surf should be used instead of Water Spout against powerful priority users, as they mayir attack Kyogre with priority ands may weaken itKyogre enough for Surf to outdamage Water Spout. Ice Beam must be used carefully, as it is quite weak and often fails to OHKO even super effective targets such as Zekrom without some prior damage.

    Team Options
    ========

    Mega- Gengar excels at trapping and eliminating many of Kyogre's checks with its ability to trap them, often allowing itKyogre to devastate teams lacking multiple Water-type resists. Bulky Fairy-types such as Xerneas and Arceus-Fairy can check Palkia, the primary check to Kyogre.

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor help to check Electric-types that threaten Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn resist both of Kyogre's weaknesses, while alsond appreciating its raine Drizzle mitigating one of their weakness to Fire-type moves. Arceus-Grass can also check Palkia, Kyogre's primary check, in rain. Ho-Oh can also check Grass-types and forms a powerful offensive combinationduo with Kyogre.

    Anti-hazard support, such as Defog, helps to conserve Kyogre's HP toand allows it to usedish out powerful Water Spouts for as long as possible. Wish support is also highly beneficial forto Kyogre for the same reason. Volt Switch and U-Tturn users such as Zekrom, Thundurus, and Scizor can help toKyogre switch Kyogre in safely.

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    ability: Drizzle
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP

    Moves
    ========

    Donning a pair of Choice Specs, Kyogre forgoes speed to become one of the most terrifying wallbreakers in the game. Its monstrous power pinnacles in Water Spout, which is so destructive that even many Pokemon that resist it are 2HKOed and even Chansey, the sturdiest special wall in the game, cannot wall it. Surf is considerably weaker, but is still powerful and allows Kyogre to beremain a powerfultent force even at low health. Hydro Pump can also be used for more power, allowing Kyogre to retain the 2HKO on Chansey even when weakened, but has unreliable accuracy.

    Thunder gives Kyogre coverage against Water-types, while also devastatingnd Flying-types and, while boasting perfect accuracy in rain and a crippling 30% paralysis rate. Ice Beam serves as coverage against Grass- and Dragon-types.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs maximize Kyogre's offensive potential. A Timid nature is preferred, as itKyogre's rain-boosted STAB moves are so powerful that the power lessdrop is often insignificant. However, the additional power offrom a Modest nature can be helpful, especially for itKyogre's coverage moves. An alternative spread with a Modest nature and EVs of 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe with a Modest nature can also be used, allowing Kyogre to survive more attacks from Pokemon which it cannot houtspeed regardless of i to outs Speed investment.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Choice Specs Kyogre is quite slow, but has overwhelming power but is quite slow, and is therefore generally most effective when used toin a hit and run fashion. WKyogre often forces switches when it is brought in againston Pokemon that it outspeeds and threatens tocan OHKO, or on Pokemon which it threatens far more than they threaten it, it can often force switches. This is sort of wordy but I'm not sure how to change this. These free turns should be used to deal as much damage as possible before retreating. Once itKyogre's checks have been sufficiently worn down or eliminated, it can usually proceed to usespam Water Spout or Surf quite mindlessly. Water Spout should only be used when an opposing Pokemon cannot threaten Kyogre significantly, can be outsped and OHKOed, or when it is highly likely to switch out, as itKyogre can become a liability when locked into Water Spout at low health.

    Team Options
    ========

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor help to check Electric-types and physical attackers that threaten Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn also resist both of Kyogre's weaknesses, while its rain protects them from Fire-type attacks. In rain, Arceus-Grass can also check Palkia effectively. Ho-Oh also resists Grass-type attacks and is a powerful physical wallbreaking counterpart to itKyogre. Bulky Fairy-types also help Kyogre by checking Palkia, its main check.

    Anti-hazard support, such as Defog, helps to conserve Kyogre's HP toand allows it to usedish out powerful Water Spouts for as long as possible. Wish support is also highly beneficial forto Kyogre for the same reason. Volt Switch and U-Tturn users such as Zekrom, Thundurus, and Scizor can help toKyogre switch Kyogre in safely.

    Paralysis or Tailwind support is very helpful, as Kyogre's middling speed is one of its greatest weaknesses.

    RestTalk
    ########
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    ability: Drizzle
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD / 8 Def

    Moves
    ========

    With maximalum investment in sHP and Special bulkDefense, Kyogre becomes a durable special wall, capable of checking even powerful threats likesuch as Geomancy Xerneas. Scald allows Kyogre to wear down offensive Pokemon and spread burns, potentially crippling physical attackers which are the most likethat can possibly to overpower it. Kyogre can utilize Roar to prevents set up sweepers from taking advantage of Kyogreit, and can alsoin tandem with entry hazard support, can wear down its checks wheown combined with entry hazardhecks. Rest allows Kyogre to restore health and remove status, giving it the longevity it needs to function as an effective wall, and Sleep Talk prevents opponents taking advantage of its sleep turns.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs andA Calm nature and the given EVs maximize Kyogre's special bulk in order to allow Kyogreit to absorb powerful special attacks effectively. A spread of 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD can be used to give Kyogre goodimprove its physical bulk anddefense while retaining great special bulk, allowing it to better check physical attackers, support Groudon, and both Mega Mewtwo formes.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set should be used not for poweroffensive presence, but for longevity and durability. With enormous special bulk, tha chance threat of burn opponents, Roar, and the ability to heal off damage and status it, Kyogre is very difficult to overpower or wear down. However, it must be wary of physical and mixed attackers, as most powerful physical attacks will 2HKO it. Ideally, Rest should ideally be used onagainst Pokemon whichthat can do little againsto Kyogre, as itKyogre is easier to take advantage of while asleep and must survive for two turns before it can Rest again. Roar can be used on predicted switches to wear down Kyogre's checks with entry hazards damage.

    Team Options
    ========

    This Kyogre set is considerably weaker than the others and lacks coverage, as it focuses on walling threats. Entry hazards and Toxic users help considerably in wearing down opponents whichthat take little damage from Kyogre’s Scald. Some notable hazard users are Landorus-T, Dialga, Groudon, and Ferrothorn. Landorus-T, Groudon, Ho-Oh, and Ddefensive Yveltal are good Toxic users.

    Bulky Ground-types such as Groudon, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Gliscor help to check Electric-types and physical attackers that threaten Kyogre. Bulky Grass-types such as Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn resist both of Kyogre's weaknesses and thrive in rain. Ho-Oh also resists Grass-type attacks.

    Thunder Wave
    ########
    name: Thunder Wave
    move 1: Thunder Wave
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Ice Beam
    ability: Drizzle
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA

    Moves
    ========

    Kyogre can also quite effectively spread paralysisutilize Thunder Wave, due to its good special bulk and its ability to force switches. Thunder Wave defines the set, and allowings Kyogre to spread paralysis among the opposing team. Surf gives it a powerful STAB whichmove that heavily damages most Pokemon that do not resist it. Scald can also be used for aits chance to burn opposing Pokemon, although this may interfere with Kyogre's attempts to spread paralysis. Thunder hits Water- and Flying-types hard and has a 30% chance to paralyze., while Ice Beam hitsmashes Grass- and Dragon-types hard.

    Set Details
    ========

    The EVs and the Modest nature maximize Kyogre's power and bulk, as it will outspeed any paralyzed opponents. Hydro Pump can be used for additional power, although Surf is more consistent and this set is more focused on spreading paralysis than dealing damage. A Lum Berry can be used to allow Kyogre to function as a check to Darkrai or avoid status once, but the Leftovers recovery helps Kyogre to spread paralysis for longer.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set is uncommon, giving it surprise value whichthat can be used tohelp Kyogre cripple key threats with paralysis. TThunder Wave. As using Thunder Wave reveals the set, the first use of Thunder Wathe move should be chosen well, as it reveals the setcarefully. Damage should especially be avoided early on if possible, alsos this allows the bluffing of a Choice set. I'm not 100% sure if this was the original meaning, but the text was a bit unclear. Thunder Wave must be used carefully if the opponent has Electric-type Pokemon, as they can use their paralysis immunity to switch in and force Kyogre out.

    Team Options
    ========

    Wish support is helpful to allow Kyogre to spread paralysis for as muchlong as possible, as even with bulk investment and Leftovers it, Kyogre lacks longevity.

    As this set sacrifices significant offensive utility for the ability to spread paralysis, powerful wallbreakers such as Ho-Oh, Kyurem-W or, and Zekrom pair well with it, as their main shortcomings are, a lack of speed which, is mitigated by paralysis.

    Other Options

    Calm Mind allows Kyogre to become immensely powerful and specially bulky, and can be used on offensive sets with 3three attacks or more defensive sets alongside Rest and Sleep Talk. However, Kyogre's low speed and exploitable physical weaknessdefense gives it poor staying power and, makesing the more immediate power of Choice Specs more appealing. The short duration of rain also hampers the utility of such sets, as they rely on staying on the field, sometimes for longer than Kyogre’sthe rain will lasts.

    Substitute can be used to avoid status and avoid the neased to prediction, but the loss of Water Spout hurts itKyogre's offensive capability, andies. Furthermore, with only Leftovers recovery it, Kyogre struggles to use Substitute repeatedly.

    Blizzard can be used instead of Ice Beam for significantly greater power, but it is very unreliable due to its 70% accuracy.

    Toxic can be used in a similar manner as Thunder Wave, but Kyogre is generally outclassed as a Toxic user and is more suitable to performsing other roles far better.

    Kyogre can also hold a Damp Rock in order to summextend the duration of rain which lasts 8to eight turns instead of 5, but as Kyogre is rarely able to stay on the field for more than 5five turns and the item has far less utility than many others for it, a team must benefit from rain substantially for the item to be worthwhile.



    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Choice Scarf and Choice Specs Kyogre are so powerful that teams almost invariably need solid checks to them, or at least a bulky Water-resist and ways to pressure Kyogre.

    **Palkia**: Palkia can safely switch into Kyogre quite safely, with, fearing only boosted Thunders hitting it hard, and threatens Kyogre with a powerful Thunder of its own. SetsIf Palkia lackings Rest though, it will however struggle against RestTalk Kyogre.

    **Arceus-Grass**: Arceus-Grass shrugs off most of Kyogre's attacks with ease and, threatens it with Grass Knot or Judgment, as well asnd havings reliablye recovery although it. Arceus-Grass must beware of Mega- Gengar, which can trap and eliminate it.

    **Gastrodon**: Gastrodon hard counters any Kyogre set lacking Calm Mind and Ice Beam withdue to its dualbulk and immunityies to Water- and bulk, whileElectric-type moves, and can wearing Kyogre down with Toxic or using its power against itretaliate with Mirror Coat. However, itGastrodon is highly specialized and can be easily taken advantage of by other Pokemon.

    *Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can switch into any moves but Choice Specs Water Spout or Hydro Pump and wear Kyogre down with Leech Seed or threaten it with Power Whip, although Scald burns can hamper it somewhat.

    **Amoonguss**: Amoonguss effortlessly absorbs any attacks but a boosted Ice Beam and, threatens Kyogre with Grass Knot, and healings with Regenerator, although m. Major metagame threats such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal to switch ican freely agaswitch insto it though.

    **Chansey/Blissey**: Chansey and Blissey avoid a 2HKO from any moves b outside of a Choice Specs Water Spout or Hydro Pump, and can wear Kyogre down with Toxic or Seismic Toss, although. However, they are vulnerable to Mega-Gebeingar trappinged and removing themed by Mega Gengar.

    **Abomasnow**: Though Scald burns can hamper it,(Mega) Abomasnow can switch in easily in the absence of Stealth Rock, and wear Kyogre down with Leech Seed or threaten it with Wood Hammer or Grass Knot, although Scald burns can cripple it somewhat.

    **Bulky Water-types**: Arceus-Water and RestTalk Kyogre can safely switch into any move but Thunder quite safely, but both struggle to hurt Kyogre in return. Since the 5five turn counter for rain is not replenished asif a different Drizzle user is switched in, opposing Kyogre often only have limited turns to take advantage of the rain too.

    **Giratina**: Specially defensive Giratina can absorb any attack but a Choice Specs Ice Beam well, althoughbut it struggles to do much againsto Kyogre itselfn return.

    **Dialga**: Support Dialga can survive any attack from Kyogre and hit it hard with Thunder, but cannot switch in againsto its most powerful moveattacks.

    **Zekrom**: Without prior damage, Zekrom can survive any attack but a Choice Specs Water Spout or Ice Beam without prior damage and OHKO Kyogre with Bolt Strike, but also cannot s.

    **Groudon**: Even
    witch significant againvest the more powerful moves or Ice Beam.

    **Groudon**: Although
    ment in Special Defense, Groudon is heavily damaged by most of Kyogre's moves even with significant specially defensive investment,, but it can come in after Kyogre has KOed a Pokemon or act as an emergency check, ruining Kyogre's momentum with sunDrought.

    **Revenge Killing**: As Kyogre is quitefairly slow, many offensive Pokemon can revenge kill it when it is sufficiently weakened. Even its Choice Scarf setKyogre is outsped by many otherpposing Choice Scarf users such as Xerneas and pGenesect. Powerful priority users such as Arceus-Normal, Yveltal, and Mega- Kangaskhan, and Choice Scarf Pokemon that outspeed Kyogre, such as Xerneas and Genesect, can be used to pick it off or weaken its Water Spout.

    **Entry Hazards**: Entry hazards can help to weaken Kyogre's Water Spout, thereby mitigating the threat it presents.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
    Blue Jay and Piexplode like this.
  22. Piexplode

    Piexplode

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    Liking for the oxford comma (even though apparently it's no longer technically correct, I still prefer it)
  23. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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  24. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Thanks blitzlefan ! That's a lot of changes, but I suppose it is my first analysis.

    I've implemented your corrected version now.
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  25. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    k doing this

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