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Kyukon-Cresselia Sun Team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Yuzu, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Yuzu

    Yuzu

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Hi everyone, I'm an old french player since 2000 (sorry if there are any mistakes in writing this) and I just came back from a 2-year break when I heard about the 6G. Before, I used to play in the DPP metagame and basically, I know close to nothing about 5G but I'm still learning. So here is my first english RMT (I couldn't write in english before) and my first 5G RMT : it's a team I've been testing for the past 3 weeks and it did quite well although I'm not really used to those new pokémons. I came across this kind of team while reading through japanese blogs, let's take a look at it.

    Team building process :

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Basically, it is a semi-offense team based on sun. Ninetales and Cresselia is the core of my team. Thanks to sun brought by Ninetales, Cresselia can recover more Hps while stalling, and even when sun is not up, she can recover 50% HP so she won't be too much dependant on sun. Cresselia is really good as a special wall, but she can also stall and take care of fighting types. I heard they were really common nowadays like Terrakion or Keldeo.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Then, I choose Venusaur as my offensive sun sweeper to expend my core. It was a surprise when I saw Venusaur came back in OU because I like this Pokémon a lot since 1G. I couldn't help but try it. Under sun, he can be dangerous and he can keep Politoed away unless they sacrifice him, hence losing weather war if I still have Ninetales.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As another sweeper for my team, I choose Dragonite because thanks to sun, he can come in the field without fear of sandstorm eating his life and keep his Multiscale

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Stealth Rock and Spikes hurt Ninetales and Dragonite a lot, preventing them from getting on the field too often (and screw Dragonite's Multiscale), I needed a reliable Rapid Spinner. I chose Forretress because he is also a strong physical wall and thanks to his typing, he can cover many of my team's weaknesses. Finally, he is himself a good entry hazard setter so he is charge of using Stealth Rock.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    To support my team, I have Landorus-T. I tested many pokémons but so far, he was the best. He's a really good offensive pivot : he can switch on physical sweepers, threaten/kill those who are weak against him thanks to Stone Edge/EQ or keep momentum with U-Turn. He can also set Stealth Rock, so I gave Toxik Spikes to Foretress instead. He helps me a lot against Tyranitar too so I can win weather wars.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Landorus was replaced by Rotom-W, as suggested by SA1TS. Rotom helps me counter Heatran, and gives me a better match up against Rain Teams and Sand Teams.


    Now, let's have a look at the sets.

    Blue : changes I made


    [​IMG]
    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 192 SDef / 64 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower
    - Roar
    - Sunny Day

    The core of all sun based team. I didn't like the offensive set because she died too quickly. I think a bulky set is a lot better. Will-O-Wisp to cripple some Pokémons, Flamethrower as the main stab (Fire Blast misses too much for me), Roar is really good for scouting or simply phaze what you don't want to see coming on you. Sunny Day is the best to counter rain teams, since Ninetales won't take a Politoed's Hydro Pump too hard under sun (except Choice specs holders), leading my opponent to switch out more often.


    [​IMG]
    Dragonite (M) @ Choice Bander
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Fire Punch
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Outrage
    - Superpower
    Thanks to Alexander.

    Multiscale is a real gift for Dragonite. He now works with his teammate, as he can enter the field without harm and just hit with Outrage. ExtremeSpeed as a priority move to revenge kill, Fire Punch for steels and Superpower to hit Normals, Tyranitar and Heatran. He doesn't fear OHKO's anymore as long as he keeps Multiscale which I try to protect with Foretress' spin and Ninetales' sun support.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 Sdef
    Calm Nature (+Sdef, -Atk)

    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderwave
    - Pain Split
    Thanks to SA1TS



    [​IMG]
    Forretress (M) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Relax Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Gyroball
    - Pain Split
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    Thanks to Alexander.

    A spinner, a wall, a hazard setter, a pivot, Forretress is very reliable in those jobs. Gyro Ball is his main stab. A pretty common build : blowing entry hazards to let Ninetales and Dragonite enter without harm, walling threats... With this EV spread, Foretress can take on Draco Meteor better. Pain Split is awesome, Foretress can stay longer on the field, unlike the basic set and eat hps from some Pokémons to finish them later


    [​IMG]
    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyl
    EVs: 76 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Sludge Bomb
    - HP Fire
    - Giga-Drain
    Thanks to Mr.Green

    A Pokémon I like since 1G, I really wanted to play him again. The EV spread is homemade : enough in speed to outspeed Choice scarf'ed 110 base speed like Latias/tios. What is left is put in HP for more bulk. Giga-Drain, as the main stab, for more staying power, HP Fire is the pseudo stab to take care of steels and finally, Sludge Bomb for Neutral Damage against Dragons. The only problem left is Heatran, but Rotom can take care of him now.


    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitation
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Thunderwave
    - Moonlight
    - Psyshock
    - Ice Beam
    Thanks to Mr.Green and SA1TS

    Calm Mind was changed to Thunderwave to support my team. Psyshock as the main stab, Ice Beam for Gliscor, Landorus and Dragons.



    Thanks for reading. Any good or bad feedbacks are welcomed and don't hesitate to ask questions. I'm always open to suggestions so feel free to give your opinion. :toast:
  2. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Very solid team, I would change some things in the moveset of the Pokemon. In particular enable Sludge Bomb> Sleep Powder Venusaur on, as Sleep Powder has poor accuracy and perpetrators, the risk of failure, losing maybe Venusaur, while Sludge Bomb to +2 Growth of STAB and being strong also allows you to hit the dragons, not having change Pokemon therefore, when used in Growth.

    Regarding suggest Cresselia Thunder Wave> Calm Mind, Calm Mind that, I think it is useful as Thunder Wave, which allows you to fully secure Keldeo, Latios and Latias could not give little trouble at the end Cresselia does not need strattamente Calm Mind to kill Landorus, Gliscor and dragons with Ice Beam, or the Pokemon fight with Psychock, especially Keldeo and Terrakion.
    In case you have particular difficulty against Volcarona despite Dragonite can kill you can try Toxic> Will-o-Wisp on Ninetales, Toxic does more harm than Politoed also Will-o-Wisp.

    I would prefer to Forretress Spikes> Toxic Spikes, for the simple reason that they often succeed in order to poison the entire opposing team abusing Toxic Spikes, given the presence of several, Steel, Levitate, Flyng, Pokemon poison, and also Rapid spinner, the Spikes also affect the Steel Pokemon poison and Rapid spinner that surely will enter the field.
    Good, luck, with your team!

    tl;dr
    Show Hide

    Sludge Bomb > Sleep Powder (for Venusaur)
    Thunder Wave > Calm Mind (for Cresselia)
    Toxic > Will-o-Wisp (for Ninetales, but optional)
    Spikes > Toxic Spikes (for Forretress)
  3. Yuzu

    Yuzu

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Thanks for your quick answer, Mr. Green. I'm gonna try those changes right now. I'll post here the results.
  4. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,663
    Hi there,

    First of all, I agree with all Mr. Green's suggestions expect the one about Ninetales. In my opinion, Will-O-Wisp is better than Toxic on Ninetales because it allows to burn Tyranitar and Hippowdon and to win the weather war against sand teams more easily. Then, your team seems a bit weak to latwins. Latias and Latios can use Draco Meteor and hit hard all your team member because Forretress can't tank latwins' attacks all the day and because Cresselia hasn't a very reliable recovery move because rain and sand teams are everywhere in the current metagame. To beat more easily the latwins, I suggest you to change Forretress' EV spread into 252 HP | 252 SAtk | 4 Def and I'd use Pain Split replacing Volt Switch and then I'd use Shed Shell replacing Leftovers. Special Defensive Forretress with Pain Split can tank better Latios and Latias' attacks and then recover its HP with Pain Split, anyway if you decide to use Shed Shell you don't need Volt Switch to avoid Magnezone's trap. Finally, on Dragonite I'd use Superpower replacing Earthquake. Superpower allows to hit at the same time Ferrothorn and Heatran and it helps you with Tyranitar too.

    That's about your team. Good luck!
  5. SA1TS

    SA1TS

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Hi Yuzu, I really like this team. Cresselia is one of my favorite Pokemon and its good to see her get some use in OU.

    As far a changes go I recommend the following:

    Rotom-W > Landorus: R-W let's you deal with the ever present rain teams in this meta a lot better and you retain your scout. A lot of the threats Landorus is countering are already handled by Cress and Rotom patches up a couple of weaknesses ie. Thundurus & Tornadus. Should you make this change swop T-Spikes for Stealth Rock on Forretress. The set is as follows: 248Hp, 28SpA, 232SpD - Hydro Pump, Thunder Wave, Volt Switch, Pain Split @ Leftovers.

    For Cresselia I recommend switching Ice Beam to Thunder Wave. Cress is predominantly a supporting poke and should you try sweep with her anything immune/resistant to Psychic should really be out of the way already. Thunder Wave supports your team, especially Dragonite, and helps prevent your opponent setting up on Cress. Should you feel IB is too important to give up you could drop Calm Mind for it and switch her nature to Calm with a more specially defensive set (252Hp, 80Def, 176SpD).

    Good luck and I hope this helps
  6. Yuzu

    Yuzu

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Thanks guys for your answers. I tried some of thoses changes, although it hasn't been a day, here some results :
    -T-wave > Calm Mind is pretty good, Cresselia can help her teammates a lot against faster threats. I finally kept Ice Beam, I felt like I needed a second damaging move to have more outs, unlike CM+Psyshock alone. Ice Beam deals with Dragon, Gliscor, Landorus, as well as Tornadus for a 2HKO, or just threaten so I can T-wave something. I can keep my Dragonite for late game. I'm still testing SA1TS's ev spread, I'll will update the results later.
    -I gave Superpower to Dragonite, it's a pretty good idea, I got to use it more often than EQ.
    -Specially defensive Foretress is awesome too, especially Pain Split, I didn't know he could learn it. Pain Split is incredible because Foretress has more staying power than before, and i get to screw many Pokémons to finish them with Dragonite extremespeed
    -I gave Sludge Bomb to Venusaur, I found it more reliable than Sleep Powder, although it can't OHKO dragons. That's not really a problem though, because my other Pokémon can support him in killing.
    -I kept WoW on Ninetales, i liked it better than Toxik, it screws opposing Tyranitar or Hyppodon, like Alexander said.

    I found I had a hard time dealing with Heatran without Dragonite. Heatran can hurt my team for a OHKO or 2HKO if I can't get Dragonite on the field to take care of him.
    I'm gonna try Rotom-W over Landorus, maybe he can help against Heatran.
    Another huge problem for my team are bulk up Pokémons with Drain Punch, namely Conkeldurr and Scrafty. Psyshock does almost nothing or simply nothing to them and Drain Punch lets them recover the damage I previously did so I can't finish them with Venusaur, even though I sacrifice someone.


    EDIT : after further testing, here the results :
    Cresselia with an ev spread of 252 HP , 80 def, 176 sdef is as good as my first set, so I don't know which one I should keep. My old spread (252 hp and def, 4 sdef) could hold Outrage from Dragons, but had a harder time against Gengar and Shadow Ball. The new one can take on Gengar better though, but is almost killed or simply killed by Outrage, Flare Blitz and V-Create. As for Draco Meteor and many other moves, They are fine for both of them. I think I'll keep the new spread for now.
    I tried Rotom-W, he helps me a lot. I can deal with Heatran and water types at the same time but I feel like I miss U-Turn, I have nothing to threaten or take care of Psychic types effectively. Same goes for EQ against Electric types, but those are less common and easier to deal with so it's fine.
    After a full day of testing, I ended up ranking around 700 on PO so I thank you all for your advices. If anyone has more ideas to further improve this team, feel free to share them. Thanks again.

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