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OU Kyurem

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Air, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. Air

    Air

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    546
    [​IMG]

    QC Checks: BKC, TRC, Ash Borer, CyclicCompound
    GP Checks: Oglemi, horyzhnz

    Overview
    ########
    Kyurem gets the award for the most forgotten legendary in the game; its counterpart, Kyurem-B, is often chosen over it due to its better flexibility, versatility, and offensive presence. However, Kyurem shouldn't be overlooked so quickly. Due to its ability Pressure, a trait that Kyurem-B doesn't have, Kyurem becomes one of the best PP stallers in the tier thanks to its phenomenal 125 / 90 / 90 bulk. Kyurem fits this role well with its ability to set up 101 HP Substitutes and its decent typing which gives it some handy resistances to Grass, Electric, and Water, as well as a neutrality to Ice. However it doesn't stop there, as Kyurem isn't just your average defensive Pokemon. Kyurem has an astounding base 130 Special Attack, along with two moves that have great coverage together, Ice Beam and Earth Power. With offensive presence as well as the ability to stall, Kyurem has the capability to take on a variety of Pokemon without fear.

    However, there's one thing that's holding Kyurem back from its true potential: the existence of Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B is, to put it simply, a more offensively orientated Kyurem. Despite not having Pressure, Kyurem-B trades 10 Special Attack points for 40 more points in its Attack and access to Fusion Bolt and Ice Beam, thus granting it BoltBeam coverage with the ability to hit both physically and specially. Because of this, Kyurem-B performs almost all offensive sets better because of this, leaving Kyurem's only viable option to be running a SubRoost set. If that wasn't the nail in the coffin, Kyurem's typing, while great offensively, is not so great defensively. Kyurem's secondary Ice typing leaves it prone to common attacks such as Close Combat and Stone Edge, as well as Stealth Rock, meaning that entry hazard removal is mandatory for it to function well.

    SubRoost
    ########
    name: SubRoost
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Earth Power
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: Modest
    nature: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========
    Even though SubRoost is the only viable option for Kyurem without it being outclassed, it fits the role almost perfectly, utilizing its great bulk, set of resistances, and its Pressure ability. Substitute allows Kyurem to avoid status, eases prediction between Earth Power and Ice Beam, and prevents Kyurem from being revenge killed easily, which makes up for its lackluster Speed. Thanks to Kyurem's above average-defenses and ability to make 101 HP Substitutes, there are many situations where Kyurem can set up a Substitute; whether it be against fixed-damage moves such as Seismic Toss, or resisted moves which fail to break its Substitute, such as Volt Switch and Hydro Pump. When Roost is added to the equation, Substitute can be used to stall out opposing Pokemon's PP with its ability Pressure. This is especially helpful against Pokemon who have only one move that can break its Substitute, such as Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball.

    Despite all of its flaws, Kyurem has a massive base 130 Special Attack and great neutral coverage, along with one of the strongest Ice Beams in the tier. Ice Beam is Kyurem's best STAB attack due to its great offensive coverage and is almost mandatory on any non-hail set, in which case Blizzard should be used. Earth Power allows Kyurem to muscle past Ice-type resists, specifically Fire- and Steel-types, keeping it from being walled by the likes of Aegislash and Heatran. Kyurem's ability to stall works in tandem with Earth Power, allowing it to take care of all Rotom-W and Rotom-H, the only two OU viable Pokemon that resist Ice Beam and Earth Power's coverage.

    Set Details
    ========
    The EVs allow Kyurem to take minimum damage from Stealth Rock while giving it the ability to set up 101 HP Substitutes. Maximum Speed allows it to Speed tie with neutral natured Kyurem-B. The rest of the EVs are put into its Special Attack with a Modest nature to give it as much power as possible. Leftovers is the preferred item, as it makes Kyurem less reliant on Roost for recovery.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Kyurem should be sent out on a Pokemon that is unable to break its Substitute, such as Rotom-W, or a Pokemon which can be PP stalled until it can't break its Substitute, such as Ferrothorn, or a Pokemon that is threatened by its attacks, such as Gliscor. Once Kyurem has switched in, it should use Substitute immediately, as it limits the ways that the opponent can deal with it. However, if one of its hard counters is likely to switch in, such as Suicune or Sylveon, Substitute is generally a bad choice in that situation as it will be shaving off 25% of its health for no benefit. Use this as an opportunity to double switch to a Pokemon that can take advantage of its hard counters. If an attacker with low-PP moves such as Focus Blast or Stone Edge are likely to switch in, it may be a good idea to use Substitute as they switch in, then stall them until Kyurem needs to Roost. However, Kyurem should not sacrifice health to PP stall in a position where it cannot gain that health back through Roost.

    Team Options
    ========
    Having either Rapid Spin or Defog is mandatory for Kyurem to succeed. Mandibuzz and Skarmory are your best options, as they have great synergy with Kyurem. Since Kyurem has trouble with special walls, strong physical attackers such as Pinsir and Garchomp are appreciated. Pokemon that can deal with Scizor and faster offensive Pokemon are also a great help to Kyurem. Quagsire fits this role nicely, since it also has good type synergy with Kyurem and can deal with Scizor. Since Kyurem can deal with stall, Pokemon that struggle to break though stall, such as Terrakion, appreciate Kyurem's support. Toxic Spikes from Scolipede can also help with Kyurem's stalling ability immensely since most of Kyurem's switch-ins are grounded.

    Other Options
    ########
    Although Kyurem's movepool is extremely bland, it has a few other options in its arsenal. Dragon Pulse can be used to hit Rotom-W for neutral damage, but Earth Power is generally a better option because of its greater super effective coverage. Focus Blast can also be used to nail Tyranitar on the switch, but it leaves Kyurem vulnerable to Aegislash. Another cool option is Glaciate. While situational, it can be useful by lowering the Speed of faster Pokemon on the switch, allowing Kyurem to stall them with ease. A Choice Specs or Scarf set can be used, which can provide immense power with Draco Meteor or revenge killing abilities with its newfound Speed, respectively. However, Kyurem-B generally performs any offensive set better than Kyurem. Life Orb can be used over Leftovers to guarantee an OHKO on specially defensive Heatran with Earth Power, and an 84% chance to 2HKO Mega Venusaur with Ice Beam, but Leftovers is generally superior.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Faster Attackers**: Faster attackers such as Charizard, Pinsir, and Keldeo can overwhelm Kyurem and stop it from using Substitute, unless Kyurem already has a Substitute up.

    **Bulky Attackers**: Pokemon that can shrug off Kyurem's offensive moves and have super effective moves against Kyurem can deal with it, such as Tyranitar, Azumarill, and Assault Vest Conkeldurr.

    **Pokemon that Bypass Substitutes**: Pokemon with sound-based moves, specifically Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir, can easily deal with Kyurem even it has its Substitute up. Noivern can also bypass Substitutes with Infiltrator, but must be wary of switching in on Ice Beam.

    **Scizor**: Since Bullet Punch has 48 PP, Kyurem won't be stalling out Scizor any time soon. Mega Scizor deals with Kyurem easier thanks to its greater bulk.

    **Bulky Setup Sweepers**: Bulky setup sweepers, such as Volcarona, Suicune, Manaphy, and Mega Gyarados, can overwhelm Kyurem and deal with it easily.
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
    Attack Order likes this.
  2. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Mention that the primary goal with Kyurem over Kyurem-B is Pressure-stalling. This is big because Kyurem is otherwise severely outclassed by Kyurem-B.

    Mention some mons it can stall moves out from. Ferrothorn is a good example - it stalls out Gyro Ball and Substitute makes it immune to Leech Seed and Thunder Wave.
  3. craymond727

    craymond727

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    Statements are a little contradictory at the moment, so maybe mention a few examples to clarify. (Unless that is more QC/writeup work?)
  4. Air

    Air

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    Is Choice Specs worth it's own set? It ties with Latios for the strongest draco meteor in the tier and has a very powerful ice beam, while also being much bulkier.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  5. PurpleCordial

    PurpleCordial

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
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    136
    The two 2nd last posts in TO list it as Kyurem-B nite Kyurem. It also lists Slyveon a a Pokemon that can deal with Scizor?!?
    AV Excadrill should be removed from C&C as the set was rejected
  6. NotBruceWayne

    NotBruceWayne

    Joined:
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    I think Life Orb deserves a slash next to Leftovers on the SubRoost set. Kyurem would appreciate the extra muscle to break bulky pokes who could potentially break its subs. In this case, SpDef Heatran breaks sub with Lava Plume and Mega Venusaur with Sludge Bomb.
    vs Venutran (open)

    vs Mega Venu
    w/ Life Orb

    200+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 174-205 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
    w/out LO
    200+ SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 134-158 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    vs Heatran
    w/ Life Orb

    200+ SpA Life Orb Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 380-447 (98.4 - 115.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    w/out LO
    200+ SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 292-344 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to
    OHKO after Stealth Rock
  7. Air

    Air

    Joined:
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    I'll Change how I word it, I meant Quagsire can deal with scizor
    And Sylveon can deal with fast attackers.

    Added in OO, probally not worth the slash as leftovers recovery is great for sub stalling
  8. CyclicCompound

    CyclicCompound ,,,@ ::
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Frankly, fully offensive Kyurem sets like that are 100% outclassed by Kyurem-B. If you need to see the reasoning:
    • Kyurem-B gets Fusion Bolt.
    • Kyurem-B can attack from both special and physical sides.
    • Kyurem-B can utilize Teravolt to get past Rotom-W, Mega Venusaur, Gengar, and Dragonite.
    There is literally no reason at all to use an offensive Kyurem set when Kyurem-B exists. Keep them to OO at best, and strongly discourage the user from using them when Kyurem-B is an option.
    Air likes this.
  9. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    No Specs set. Keep it OO.

    Also good call on LO being OO.
  10. Air

    Air

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    This is ready for QC Checks.
  11. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

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    approved 1/4
    Jaiho and Air like this.
  12. TRC

    TRC regal
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

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    yeah ok this is good

    2/4
    Air likes this.
  13. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    good stuff QC 3/4
    Air likes this.
  14. Air

    Air

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    So I should start writing up now? Or is that after the forth QC check?
  15. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    yes you can start writing rn
    Air likes this.
  16. Air

    Air

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    this is ready for the last check.
  17. CyclicCompound

    CyclicCompound ,,,@ ::
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    This looks pretty good, you've got all of the relevant information in.

    QC 4/4
    Air likes this.
  18. Aragorn the King

    Aragorn the King https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZmCJUSC6g
    is a Community Contributor

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    Amcheck

    ADD REMOVE COMMENTS CAPITALIZE FIRST LETTER OF WORD DE-CAPITALIZE FIRST LETTER OF WORD

    CyclicCompound and Air like this.
  19. Air

    Air

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    Jan 24, 2014
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    Thanks for this! Will implement it soon. Done.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  20. Attack Order

    Attack Order Guest

    Additions
    Removals
    (Comments)

    AM Check! (open)

    Overview
    ########
    Kyurem gets the award for the most forgotten legendary in Pokemon the game; its counterpart, Kyurem-B, is often chosen over it due to because of its better flexibility, versatility, and offensive presence. However, Kyurem shouldn't be overlooked so fast quickly (Changing it to "quickly" because it gives the sentence more sophistication). Due to its ability Pressure, a trait that Kyurem-B doesn't have, Kyurem becomes one of the best PP stallers in the tier due because (word variety) to its phenomenal 125 / 90 / 90 bulk. Kyurem further fits this role with its ability to set up 101 HP substitutes and it's its unique typing, givinges it handy resistances which further aids its stalling ability. But However it doesn't stop there;, Kyurem isn't your average defensive pokemon. Kyurem has an astounding base 130 sSpecial aAttack, along with two moves with great coverage together, Ice Beam and Earth Power. Kyurem has an offensive presence along with as well as the ability to stall, which altogether gives it the capability to take on a variety of Pokemon without fear.

    However, there's one thing that's holding Kyurem back from its true potential: the existence of Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B is, to put it simply, a more offencsive-orientated Kyurem. Despite not having pPressure, Kyurem-B trades base 10 sSpecial aAttack points for 40 more points in its aAttack, while also havings access to Fusion Bolt thus giving it the ability (You use the word "ability" quite a lot so we need to change the word choice!) allowing it to hit both physically and specially, while also as well as having Bolt-Beam coverage. Kyurem-B does performs almost all offensive sets better because of this, leaving Kyurem's only viable option to be SubRoost. If that wasn't the nail in the coffin, Kyurem's typing, while great offensively, it's is not so great defensively. Its Ice-typing leaves it prone to common attacks such as Close Combat and Stone Edge as well as and Stealth Rock, meaning hazard removal is mandatory for it to function well. Despite all this its flaws, Kyurem can be a powerful threat both defensively and offensively, and should never be seen as a "weaker Kyurem-B.".


    SubRoost
    ########
    name: SubRoost
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Earth Power
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: Modest
    nature: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========
    Even though SubRoost is the only viable option for Kyurem without it being outclassed, it fits the role almost perfectly, utilizing its great bulk, set of resistances, and Pressure ability. Substitute allows Kyurem to avoid status, eases prediction between Earth Power and Ice Beam, and prevents Kyurem from being revenge killed easily, which makes up for its lackluster Speed. Thanks to Kyurem's above average defenses and ability to make 101 HP Substitutes, there are many situations where Kyurem can set up a Substitute; whether it be against set-damage moves such as Seismic Toss, or resisted moves which fail to break its substitute, such as Volt Switch and Hydro Pump. When Roost is added to the equation, Substitute can be used to stall out opposing Pokemon's PP with its ability Pressure. This is especially helpful against Pokemon who have only one move that can break its substitute, such as Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball.

    Despite all of this its flaws, Kyurem has a massive base 130 special attack and great neutral coverage, along with the strongest Ice Beam in the game. Ice Beam is Kyurem's best STAB attack, and. It is almost mandatory on any non-hail set,(in which case Blizzard should be used), due to its great offensive coverage. Earth Power allows Kyurem to muscle past Ice-type resists, specifically Fire- and Steel-types, keeping it from being walled by the likes of Aegislash and Heatran. Kyurem's ability to stall works in tandem with Earth Power, allowing it to take care of all Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Heat, the only two OU viable Pokemon that resist Ice Beam and Earth Powers's coverage.

    Set Details
    ========
    The EV's allow Kyurem to take minimum damage from Stealth Rock, and give it the ability to set up 101 HP Substitutes. Giving Kyurem maximum Speed allows it to speed tie with neutral natured Kyurem-B. The rest of the EV's are put into its Special Attack with a Modest nature to give it as much fire-power (It's funny how you said "fire power" :P. It's not needed here.) as possible. Leftovers is the preferred item, as it makes Kyurem less reliant on rRoost for recovery.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Kyurem, while being threatening if it is the right situtation, can crumble under the pressure if in the wrong one. Kyurem should be sent out on a Pokemon that is unable to break its Substitute, such as Rotom-W, or a Pokemon which can be PP stalled until it can't break its Substitute, such as Ferrothorn, or a Pokemon that is threatened by its attacks, such as Gliscor. Once Kyurem has switched in, it should use Substitute whenever possible, as it limits the ways that the opponent can deal with it. However, if one of its hard counters is likely to switch in, such as Suicune and or Sylveon, Substitute is generally a bad choice in that situation. If an attacker with low-PP moves such as Focus Blast or Stone Edge are likely to switch in, it may be a good idea to use sSubstitute as they switch in, then stall them until you need to rRoost. However, Kyurem should not sacrifice health to PP stall in a position where it cannot gain that health back through Roost.

    Team Options
    ========
    While Kyurem is a great Pokemon on its own, it needs team support to really shine. Having either Rapid Spin or Defog is mandatory for Kyurem to succeed. Mandibuzz and Skarmory are your best options, as they have great synergy with Kyurem. Since Kyurem has trouble with special walls, strong physical attackers such as Pinsir and Garchomp are appreciated. Pokemon that can deal with Scizor and faster offensive Pokemon are a great help to Kyurem. Quagsire fits this role nicely, since it also has good synergy with Kyurem, and can deal with Scizor. Since Kyurem can deal with stall, Pokemon that struggle with it, such as Terrakion, appreciate Kyurem's support. Toxic Spikes can also help with Kyurem's stalling ability immensely as most of Kyurem's switch ins are grounded.

    Other Options
    ########
    Although Kyurem's movepool is extremely bland, it has a few other options in its arsenal. Dragon Pulse can be used to hit Rotom-W, but Earth Power is generally a better option Bbecuaause of its greater super effective coverage. Focus Blast can also be used to nail Tyranitar on the switch, but it leaves Kyurem open vulnerable to Aegislash. Another cool option is Glaciate. While situational, it can be useful by lowering the Speed of faster Pokemon on the switch, allowing Kyurem to stall easier. A Choice Specs or Scarf set can be used, which either can provide immense power with Draco Meteor or revenge killing abilities with its newfound Speed, respectively. However, Kyurem-B generally does performs any offensive set better than Kyurem. Life Orb can be used over Leftovers to guarantee a OHKO on specially defensive Heatran with Earth Power, and a 84% chance to 2HKO Mega Venasaur with Ice Beam, but lLeftovers is generally the best option superior.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Faster Attackers**: Faster attackers such as Charizard, Pinsir, and Keldeo can Ooverwhelm Kyurem and stop it from using Substitute, unless Kyurem already has a Substitute up.

    **Bulky Attackers**: Pokemon that can shrug off Kyurem's offensive moves, and have super effective moves against Kyurem can deal with it, such as Tyranitar, Azumarill, and Assault Vest Conkeldurr.

    **Pokemon that Bypass Substitutes**: Pokemon with sound based moves, specifically Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir, can easily deal with Kyurem even it has its Substitute up. Noivern can also bypass substitutes with Infiltrator, but must be wary of switching in on Ice Beam.

    **Scizor**: Since Bullet Punch has 48 PP, Kyurem won't be stalling out Scizor any time soon. Mega Scizor deals with Kyurem easier thanks to its greater bulk.

    **Bulky Setup Sweepers**: Bulky setup sweepers, such as Volcarona, Suicune, Manaphy, and Mega Gyarados can overwhelm Kyurem and deal with it easily.




    Copy and Paste! (open)

    Overview
    ########
    Kyurem gets the award for the most forgotten legendary in the game; its counterpart, Kyurem-B, is often chosen over it due to because of its better flexibility, versatility, and offensive presence. However, Kyurem shouldn't be overlooked so quickly. Due to its ability Pressure, a trait that Kyurem-B doesn't have, Kyurem becomes one of the best PP stallers in the tier because to its phenomenal 125 / 90 / 90 bulk. Kyurem further fits this role with its ability to set up 101 HP substitutes and its unique typing gives it handy resistances which further aids its stalling ability. However it doesn't stop there, Kyurem isn't your average defensive pokemon. Kyurem has an astounding base 130 Special Attack, along with two moves with great coverage together, Ice Beam and Earth Power. Kyurem has an offensive presence as well as the ability to stall, which altogether gives it the capability to take on a variety of Pokemon without fear.

    However, there's one thing that's holding Kyurem back from its true potential: the existence of Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B is, to put it simply, a more offensive orientated Kyurem. Despite not having Pressure, Kyurem-B trades base 10 Special Attack points for 40 more points in its Attack, has access to Fusion Bolt thus allowing it to hit both physically and specially, as well as having BoltBeam coverage. Kyurem-B performs almost all offensive sets better because of this, leaving Kyurem's only viable option to be SubRoost. If that wasn't the nail in the coffin, Kyurem's typing while great offensively, is not so great defensively. Its Ice-typing leaves it prone to common attacks such as Close Combat and Stone Edge as well as Stealth Rock, meaning hazard removal is mandatory for it to function well. Despite its flaws, Kyurem can be a powerful threat both defensively and offensively, and should never be seen as a "weaker Kyurem-B".

    SubRoost
    ########
    name: SubRoost
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Earth Power
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: Modest
    nature: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========
    Even though SubRoost is the only viable option for Kyurem without it being outclassed, it fits the role almost perfectly, utilizing its great bulk, set of resistances, and Pressure ability. Substitute allows Kyurem to avoid status, eases prediction between Earth Power and Ice Beam, and prevents Kyurem from being revenge killed easily, which makes up for its lackluster Speed. Thanks to Kyurem's above average defenses and ability to make 101 HP Substitutes, there are many situations where Kyurem can set up a Substitute; whether it be against set-damage moves such as Seismic Toss, or resisted moves which fail to break its substitute, such as Volt Switch and Hydro Pump. When Roost is added to the equation, Substitute can be used to stall out opposing Pokemon's PP with its ability Pressure. This is especially helpful against Pokemon who have only one move that can break its substitute, such as Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball.

    Despite all of its flaws, Kyurem has a massive base 130 special attack and great neutral coverage, along with the strongest Ice Beam in the game. Ice Beam is Kyurem's best STAB attack. It is almost mandatory on any non-hail set, in which case Blizzard should be used, due to its great offensive coverage. Earth Power allows Kyurem to muscle past Ice-type resists, specifically Fire- and Steel-types, keeping it from being walled by the likes of Aegislash and Heatran. Kyurem's ability to stall works in tandem with Earth Power, allowing it to take care of all Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Heat, the only two OU viable Pokemon that resist Ice Beam and Earth Power's coverage.

    Set Details
    ========
    The EV's allow Kyurem to take minimum damage from Stealth Rock, and give it the ability to set up 101 HP Substitutes. Giving Kyurem maximum Speed allows it to speed tie with neutral natured Kyurem-B. The rest of the EV's are put into its Special Attack with a Modest nature to give it as much power as possible. Leftovers is the preferred item, as it makes Kyurem less reliant on Roost for recovery.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Kyurem, while being threatening if it is the right situtation, can crumble under the pressure if in the wrong one. Kyurem should be sent out on a Pokemon that is unable to break its Substitute, such as Rotom-W, or a Pokemon which can be PP stalled until it can't break its Substitute, such as Ferrothorn, or a Pokemon that is threatened by its attacks, such as Gliscor. Once Kyurem has switched in, it should use Substitute whenever possible, as it limits the ways that the opponent can deal with it. However, if one of its hard counters is likely to switch in, such as Suicune or Sylveon, Substitute is generally a bad choice in that situation. If an attacker with low-PP moves such as Focus Blast or Stone Edge are likely to switch in, it may be a good idea to use Substitute as they switch in, then stall them until you need to Roost. However, Kyurem should not sacrifice health to PP stall in a position where it cannot gain that health back through Roost.

    Team Options
    ========
    While Kyurem is a great Pokemon on its own, it needs team support to really shine. Having either Rapid Spin or Defog is mandatory for Kyurem to succeed. Mandibuzz and Skarmory are your best options, as they have great synergy with Kyurem. Since Kyurem has trouble with special walls, strong physical attackers such as Pinsir and Garchomp are appreciated. Pokemon that can deal with Scizor and faster offensive Pokemon are a great help to Kyurem. Quagsire fits this role nicely, since it also has good synergy with Kyurem, and can deal with Scizor. Since Kyurem can deal with stall, Pokemon that struggle with it such as Terrakion appreciate Kyurem's support. Toxic Spikes can also help with Kyurem's stalling ability immensely as most of Kyurem's switch ins are grounded.

    Other Options
    ########
    Although Kyurem's movepool is extremely bland, it has a few other options in its arsenal. Dragon Pulse can be used to hit Rotom-W, but Earth Power is generally a better option because of its greater super effective coverage. Focus Blast can also be used to nail Tyranitar on the switch, but it leaves Kyurem vulnerable to Aegislash. Another cool option is Glaciate. While situational, it can be useful by lowering the Speed of faster Pokemon on the switch, allowing Kyurem to stall easier. A Choice Specs or Scarf set can be used, which either can provide immense power with Draco Meteor or revenge killing abilities with its newfound Speed, respectively. However, Kyurem-B generally performs any offensive set better than Kyurem. Life Orb can be used over Leftovers to guarantee a OHKO on specially defensive Heatran with Earth Power, and a 84% chance to 2HKO Mega Venasaur with Ice Beam, but Leftovers is generally superior.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Faster Attackers**: Faster attackers such as Charizard, Pinsir, and Keldeo can overwhelm Kyurem and stop it from using Substitute, unless Kyurem already has a Substitute up.

    **Bulky Attackers**: Pokemon that can shrug off Kyurem's offensive moves, and have super effective moves against Kyurem can deal with it, such as Tyranitar, Azumarill, and Assault Vest Conkeldurr.

    **Pokemon that Bypass Substitutes**: Pokemon with sound based moves, specifically Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir, can easily deal with Kyurem even it has its Substitute up. Noivern can also bypass substitutes with Infiltrator, but must be wary of switching in on Ice Beam.

    **Scizor**: Since Bullet Punch has 48 PP, Kyurem won't be stalling out Scizor any time soon. Mega Scizor deals with Kyurem easier thanks to its greater bulk.

    **Bulky Setup Sweepers**: Bulky setup sweepers, such as Volcarona, Suicune, Manaphy, and Mega Gyarados can overwhelm Kyurem and deal with it easily.



    Well written!
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2014
    Air likes this.
  21. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
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    Overview
    ########
    Kyurem gets the award for the most forgotten legendary in the game; its counterpart, Kyurem-B, is often chosen over it due to because of its better flexibility, versatility, and offensive presence. However, Kyurem shouldn't be overlooked so quickly. Due to its ability Pressure, a trait that Kyurem-B doesn't have, Kyurem becomes one of the best PP stallers in the tier because thanks to its phenomenal 125 / 90 / 90 bulk. Kyurem further fits this role with its ability to set up 101 HP Substitutes and its decent unique typing which gives it some handy resistances to Grass, Electric, and Water, as well as a neutrality to Ice. which further aids its stalling ability. However it doesn't stop there, Kyurem isn't just your average defensive Pokemon. Kyurem has an astounding base 130 Special Attack, along with two moves with great coverage together, Ice Beam and Earth Power. Kyurem has an With offensive presence as well as the ability to stall, which altogether gives it Kyurem has the capability to take on a variety of Pokemon without fear.

    However, there's one thing that's holding Kyurem back from its true potential: the existence of Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B is, to put it simply, a more offensive orientated Kyurem. Despite not having Pressure, Kyurem-B trades base 10 Special Attack points for 40 more points in its Attack, and has access to Fusion Bolt and Ice Beam, thus granting it BoltBeam coverage with the ability to hit both physically and specially thus allowing it to hit both physically and specially, as well as having BoltBeam coverage. Kyurem-B performs almost all offensive sets better because of this, leaving Kyurem's only viable option to be SubRoost. If that wasn't the nail in the coffin, Kyurem's typing, while great offensively, is not so great defensively. Its Ice typing leaves it prone to common attacks such as Close Combat and Stone Edge, as well as Stealth Rock, meaning hazard removal is mandatory for it to function well. Despite its flaws, Kyurem can be a powerful threat both defensively and offensively, and should never be seen as a "weaker Kyurem-B".

    SubRoost
    ########
    name: SubRoost
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Earth Power
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: Modest
    nature: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========
    Even though SubRoost is the only viable option for Kyurem without it being outclassed, it fits the role almost perfectly, utilizing its great bulk, set of resistances, and Pressure ability. Substitute allows Kyurem to avoid status, eases prediction between Earth Power and Ice Beam, and prevents Kyurem from being revenge killed easily, which makes up for its lackluster Speed. Thanks to Kyurem's above average defenses and ability to make 101 HP Substitutes, there are many situations where Kyurem can set up a Substitute; whether it be against set-damage moves such as Seismic Toss, or resisted moves which fail to break its Substitute, such as Volt Switch and Hydro Pump. When Roost is added to the equation, Substitute can be used to stall out opposing Pokemon's PP with its ability Pressure. This is especially helpful against Pokemon who have only one move that can break its Substitute, such as Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball.

    Despite all of its flaws, Kyurem has a massive base 130 Special Attack and great neutral coverage, along with the strongest Ice Beam in the game (Kyurem-W says hi). Ice Beam is Kyurem's best STAB attack and is almost mandatory on any non-hail set, in which case Blizzard should be used due to its great offensive coverage. Earth Power allows Kyurem to muscle past Ice-type resists, specifically Fire- and Steel-types, keeping it from being walled by the likes of Aegislash and Heatran. Kyurem's ability to stall works in tandem with Earth Power, allowing it to take care of all Rotom-W and Rotom-H, the only two OU viable Pokemon that resist Ice Beam and Earth Power's coverage.

    Set Details
    ========
    The EVs allow Kyurem to take minimum damage from Stealth Rock while giving it the ability to set up 101 HP Substitutes. Giving Kyurem Maximum Speed allows it to Speed tie with neutral natured Kyurem-B. The rest of the EVs are put into its Special Attack with a Modest nature to give it as much power as possible. Leftovers is the preferred item, as it makes Kyurem less reliant on Roost for recovery.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Kyurem, while being threatening if it is the right situtation, can crumble under the pressure if in the wrong one. Kyurem should be sent out on a Pokemon that is unable to break its Substitute, such as Rotom-W, or a Pokemon which can be PP stalled until it can't break its Substitute, such as Ferrothorn, or a Pokemon that is threatened by its attacks, such as Gliscor. Once Kyurem has switched in, it should use Substitute immediately whenever possible, as it limits the ways that the opponent can deal with it. However, if one of its hard counters is likely to switch in, such as Suicune or Sylveon, Substitute is generally a bad choice in that situation as it will only be shaving off 25% of its health for no benefit. Use this as an opportunity to double switch to a Pokemon that can take advantage of its hard counters. If an attacker with low-PP moves such as Focus Blast or Stone Edge are likely to switch in, it may be a good idea to use Substitute as they switch in, then stall them until Kyurem needs to Roost. However, Kyurem should not sacrifice health to PP stall in a position where it cannot gain that health back through Roost.

    Team Options
    ========
    While Kyurem is a great Pokemon on its own, it needs team support to really shine. Having either Rapid Spin or Defog is mandatory for Kyurem to succeed. Mandibuzz and Skarmory are your best options, as they have great synergy with Kyurem. Since Kyurem has trouble with special walls, strong physical attackers such as Pinsir and Garchomp are appreciated. Pokemon that can deal with Scizor and faster offensive Pokemon are a great help to Kyurem. Quagsire fits this role nicely, since it also has good type synergy with Kyurem and can deal with Scizor. Since Kyurem can deal with stall, Pokemon that struggle to break through stall, with it such as Terrakion, appreciate Kyurem's support. Toxic Spikes from the likes of Forretress or Greninja can also help with Kyurem's stalling ability immensely since most of Kyurem's switch-ins are grounded.

    Other Options
    ########
    Although Kyurem's movepool is extremely bland, it has a few other options in its arsenal. Dragon Pulse can be used to hit Rotom-W for neutral damage, but Earth Power is generally a better option because of its greater super effective coverage. Focus Blast can also be used to nail Tyranitar on the switch, but it leaves Kyurem vulnerable to Aegislash. Another cool option is Glaciate. While situational, it can be useful by lowering the Speed of faster Pokemon on the switch, allowing Kyurem to stall easier. A Choice Specs or Scarf set can be used, which either can provide immense power with Draco Meteor or revenge killing abilities with its newfound Speed, respectively. However, Kyurem-B generally performs any offensive set better than Kyurem. Life Orb can be used over Leftovers to guarantee an OHKO on specially defensive Heatran with Earth Power, and an 84% chance to 2HKO Mega Venusaur with Ice Beam, but Leftovers is generally superior.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Faster Attackers**: Faster attackers such as Charizard, Pinsir, and Keldeo can overwhelm Kyurem and stop it from using Substitute, unless Kyurem already has a Substitute up.

    **Bulky Attackers**: Pokemon that can shrug off Kyurem's offensive moves and have super effective moves against Kyurem can deal with it, such as Tyranitar, Azumarill, and Assault Vest Conkeldurr.

    **Pokemon that Bypass Substitutes**: Pokemon with sound-based moves, specifically Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir, can easily deal with Kyurem even it has its Substitute up. Noivern can also bypass Substitutes with Infiltrator, but must be wary of switching in on Ice Beam.

    **Scizor**: Since Bullet Punch has 48 PP, Kyurem won't be stalling out Scizor any time soon. Mega Scizor deals with Kyurem easier thanks to its greater bulk.

    **Bulky Setup Sweepers**: Bulky setup sweepers, such as Volcarona, Suicune, Manaphy, and Mega Gyarados, can overwhelm Kyurem and deal with it easily.


    Be careful when implementing GP checks, when there's a lot of corrections like with yours it's best to not just c/p them directly into the OP. You'll become a better writer by looking at the corrections and doing it by hand.

    GP Approved 1/2
    Hollywood likes this.
  22. Air

    Air

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    Implemented, this is ready for the last check!
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2014
  23. horyzhnz

    horyzhnz to adventure!
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    stuff (open)
    Kyurem gets the award for the most forgotten legendary in the game; its counterpart, Kyurem-B, is often chosen over it due to its better flexibility, versatility, and offencive offensive presence. However, Kyurem shouldn't be overlooked so quickly. Due to its ability Pressure, a trait that Kyurem-B doesn't have, Kyurem becomes one of the best PP stallers in the tier thanks to its phenomenal 125 / 90 / 90 bulk. Kyurem further fits this role well with its ability to set up 101 HP Substitutes and its decent typing which gives it some handy resistances to Grass, Electric, and Water, as well as a neutrality to Ice. However it doesn't stop there, as Kyurem isn't just your average defensive Pokemon. Kyurem has an astounding base 130 Special Attack, along with two moves with that have great coverage together, Ice Beam and Earth Power. With offensive presence as well as the ability to stall, Kyurem has the capability to take on a variety of Pokemon without fear.

    However, there's one thing that's holding Kyurem back from its true potential: the existence of Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B is, to put it simply, a more offensively orientated Kyurem. Despite not having Pressure, Kyurem-B trades base 10 Special Attack points for 40 more points in its Attack and access to Fusion Bolt and Ice Beam, thus granting it BoltBeam coverage with the ability to hit both physically and specially.(You forgot a full stop there.) Because of this, Kyurem-B performs almost all offensive sets better because of this, leaving Kyurem's only viable option to be running a SubRoost set. If that wasn't the nail in the coffin, Kyurem's typing, while great offensively, is not so great defensively. Its Kyurem's secondary Ice typing leaves it prone to common attacks such as Close Combat and Stone Edge, as well as Stealth Rock, meaning that entry hazard removal is mandatory for it to function well.

    SubRoost
    ########
    name: SubRoost
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Earth Power
    ability: Pressure
    item: Leftovers
    evs: Modest
    nature: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========
    Even though SubRoost is the only viable option for Kyurem without it being outclassed, it fits the role almost perfectly, utilizing its great bulk, set of resistances, and its Pressure ability. Substitute allows Kyurem to avoid status, eases prediction between Earth Power and Ice Beam, and prevents Kyurem from being revenge killed easily, which makes up for its lackluster Speed. Thanks to Kyurem's above-average (add hyphen) defenses and ability to make 101 HP Substitutes, there are many situations where Kyurem can set up a Substitute; whether it be against set fixed-damage moves such as Seismic Toss, or resisted moves which fail to break its Substitute, such as Volt Switch and Hydro Pump. When Roost is added to the equation, Substitute can be used to stall out opposing Pokemon's PP with its ability Pressure. This is especially helpful against Pokemon who have only one move that can break its Substitute, such as Ferrothorn with Gyro Ball.

    Despite all of its flaws, Kyurem has a massive base 130 Special Attack and great neutral coverage, along with one of the strongest Ice Beams in the tier (lol, check Oglemi's first GP. I swear Kyu-W was ubers tho). Ice Beam is Kyurem's best STAB attack and is almost mandatory on any non-hail set, in which case Blizzard should be used due to its greater offensive coverage power (Blizzard doesn't have 'greater offensive coverage' than Ice Beam, it just hits harder). Earth Power allows Kyurem to muscle past Ice-type resists, specifically Fire- and Steel-types, keeping it from being walled by the likes of Aegislash and Heatran. Kyurem's ability to stall works in tandem with Earth Power, allowing it to take care of all Rotom-W and Rotom-H, the only two OU viable Pokemon that resist Ice Beam and Earth Power's coverage.

    Set Details
    ========
    The EVs allow Kyurem to take minimum damage from Stealth Rock while giving it the ability to set up 101 HP Substitutes. Maximum Speed allows it to Speed tie with neutral natured Kyurem-B. The rest of the EVs are put into its Special Attack with a Modest nature to give it as much power as possible. Leftovers is the preferred item, as it makes Kyurem less reliant on Roost for recovery.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Kyurem should be sent out on a Pokemon that is unable to break its Substitute, such as Rotom-W, or a Pokemon which can be PP stalled until it can't break its Substitute, such as Ferrothorn, or a Pokemon that is threatened by its attacks, such as Gliscor. Once Kyurem has switched in, it should use Substitute immediately, as it limits the ways that the opponent can deal with it. However, if one of its hard counters is likely to switch in, such as Suicune or Sylveon, Substitute is generally a bad choice in that situation as it will only be shaving off 25% of its health for no benefit. Use this as an opportunity to double switch to a Pokemon that can take advantage of its hard counters. If an attacker with low-PP moves such as Focus Blast or Stone Edge are likely to switch in, it may be a good idea to use Substitute as they switch in, then stall them until Kyurem needs to Roost. However, Kyurem should not sacrifice health to PP stall in a position where it cannot gain that health back through Roost.

    Team Options
    ========
    Having either Rapid Spin or Defog is mandatory for Kyurem to succeed. Mandibuzz and Skarmory are your best options, as they have great synergy with Kyurem. Since Kyurem has trouble with special walls, strong physical attackers such as Pinsir and Garchomp are appreciated. Pokemon that can deal with Scizor and faster offensive Pokemon are also a great help to Kyurem. Quagsire fits this role nicely, since it also has good type synergy with Kyurem and can deal with Scizor. Since Kyurem can deal with stall, Pokemon that struggle to break though stall, such as Terrakion, appreciate Kyurem's support. Toxic Spikes from the likes of Forretress or Greninja can also help with Kyurem's stalling ability immensely since most of Kyurem's switch-ins are grounded. (Forretress was rejected for OU + it sucks now, and Greninja generally runs normal Spikes on its more uncommon set. Toxic Spikes is kinda rare in OU now because of all the Steel- and Poison-types running around as well. You can keep the Toxic Spikes part if you think it is still important, but use more relevant Pokemon like Scolipede.)

    Other Options
    ########
    Although Kyurem's movepool is extremely bland, it has a few other options in its arsenal. Dragon Pulse can be used to hit Rotom-W for neutral damage, but Earth Power is generally a better option because of its greater super effective coverage. Focus Blast can also be used to nail Tyranitar on the switch, but it leaves Kyurem vulnerable to Aegislash. Another cool option is Glaciate. While situational, it can be useful by lowering the Speed of faster Pokemon on the switch, allowing Kyurem to stall easier them with ease. A Choice Specs or Scarf set can be used, which can provide immense power with Draco Meteor or revenge killing abilities with its newfound Speed, respectively. However, Kyurem-B generally performs any offensive set better than Kyurem. Life Orb can be used over Leftovers to guarantee an OHKO on specially defensive Heatran with Earth Power, and an 84% chance to 2HKO Mega Venusaur with Ice Beam, but Leftovers is generally superior.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Faster Attackers**: Faster attackers such as Charizard, Pinsir, and Keldeo can overwhelm Kyurem and stop it from using Substitute, unless Kyurem already has a Substitute up.

    **Bulky Attackers**: Pokemon that can shrug off Kyurem's offensive moves and have super effective moves against Kyurem can deal with it, such as Tyranitar, Azumarill, and Assault Vest Conkeldurr.

    **Pokemon that Bypass Substitutes**: Pokemon with sound-based moves, specifically Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir, can easily deal with Kyurem even it has its Substitute up. Noivern can also bypass Substitutes with Infiltrator, but must be wary of switching in on Ice Beam.

    **Scizor**: Since Bullet Punch has 48 PP, Kyurem won't be stalling out Scizor any time soon. Mega Scizor deals with Kyurem easier thanks to its greater bulk.

    **Bulky Setup Sweepers**: Bulky setup sweepers, such as Volcarona, Suicune, Manaphy, and Mega Gyarados, can overwhelm Kyurem and deal with it easily.

    The Toxic Spikes part I'm not certain about, but other than that, good job.
    -insert stamp-

    GP 2/2
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  24. Air

    Air

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    Thanks! Will implement this tonight
  25. gamer boy

    gamer boy

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    Ferrothorn's bulk is phenominal. Kyurem's bulk is great, but I don't think phenominal is the correct word - especially on a pokemon with such bad defensive typing. I would reword this.

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