Latias in Doubles

[Sun Spirit]

Ok... so I recently got a Latios and a Latias off the GTS and they had the best IVs and Timid nature. So I decided to make a set that could work in the Doubles metagame. So after a few thoughts and stuff, I came up with this set

Latias @Sitrus Berry/Weakness Policy
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/ 56 DEF/ 200 SPE

- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock/Surf/Shadow Ball
- Relect Type
- Roost

Now this was a shock to me, as the set was pretty successful. Reflect Type allows Latias to become the type(s) of the Pokemon it targets, including yours! For example, my strategy was to target my Klefki with Reflect Type and become a Steel/Fairy type after Klefki sets up a Light Screen/Reflect or a Safeguard. Because of this, the only thing that can hit Latias will be Fire types as Latias has the ability Levitate. Because of this Surf is in the move set even if Klefki is harmed in the process. Luckily, Pokemon like Jellicent can switch out for Klefki to absorb Surf and get some HP back. Roost is particularly interesting as Levitate will keep you off the ground while you restore your HP. In other words, you've covered all of you Latias' weakness with its newfound Steel/Fairy typing thanks to Reflect Type. Sitrus Berry allows for some recovery for when Latias gets low on HP. However, the damage output on this Latias is very low. Here is an example of the "damage" it deals.

0 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 120-144 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 34-42 (16.4 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO
0 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-W: 49-58 (31.2 - 36.9%) -- 70.7% chance to 3HKO

The only Pokemon here that Latias can actually get a realistic KO on is Garchomp. However, if Garchomp is holding a Choice Scarf, Latias will be outsped and 2HKOed by a Jolly Dragon Claw. If the Garchomp is holding a Choice Band, Latias will alway be OHKOed after doing 65.2 - 78.2% to Garchomp. If Garchomp has a Life Orb...
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Latias: 182-218 (97.3 - 116.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

This is why Reflect Type is good. It keeps Latias Safe from Garchomp, and other similar Dragon types.
Weakness Policy is an option, as it gives a +2 Atk/Sp.Atk boost to Latias if it is hit for SE damage. This boost allows Latias to obtain KOs and higher damage that it could not before such as:

+2 0 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 236-282 (128.2 - 153.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-W: 97-115 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This guarantees a OHKO on Garchomp and a 2HKO on Rotom-W. Tyranitar is only 3HKOed by the same move. And this is all including the STAB boost as well. However, while it may seem weak now, you can take a more offensive approach with this set:

Latias Life Orb
Nature: Timid
EVs: 56 HP/ 252 SP.ATK/ 200 SPE

- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock/Surf
- Relfect Type
- Roost

With a STAB, Life Orb boosted Dragon Pulse will 2HKO Rotom-W with this calculation.
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-W: 79-95 (50.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The same attack does this to Garchomp.
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 195-229 (105.9 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Non STAB will do this.
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 130-153 (70.6 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Another thing to note is the Speed EVs. I put in 200 SPE so that Latias can outspeed un boost base 102s by one point, as well as anything below.

As you can see, the power difference is fairly high so it depends, offensive or defensive. Offensive enjoys Roost for saying alive longer, but can be changed for something like Protect. Surf is also good for things like Heatran and general coverage after you use Reflect Type.


That is my thoughts on a Timid Latias. Hope you enjoyed, and please feel free to list your ideas and sets as well. It will help create better discussion and sets, other than mine. I look forward to seeing your ideas.

 

[RedSpyda]

Rotom-W is a better pokemon to use reflect type on as his only weakness is grass with is the least common attacking type in doubles

Here would be a ideal set for latias in that case

Latias @Sitrus Berry/life orb
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/ 56 DEF/ 200 SPE
Surf
Thunderbolt
Reflect Type
Recover/Psyshock/Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse

With this set she becomes a bulkier Rotom W and with a better stab option with surf. Granted that you loose the toxic immunity and lose out on the resistance to dragon but you would gain stab on the above moves.

Life orb helps hit stuff harder as weakness policy wont be activated much. Recover is listed as its a great option over roost.

 

[Sun Spirit]

Yep, your set is much better. Dual Stab being kept is a lot better than toxic immunity, especially since things like klefki can set up safeguard

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

Latias (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Helping Hand
- Tailwind
- Protect

This is the set I've always gone for, standard support. You can probably do something fancy with the EVs or run a more offensive item to score significant KOs but I find the simple set to be fine. Tailwind and Helping Hand are both invaluable assets to any team and Latias is good because it also has some offensive presence backed by a mostly unresisted STAB. It's high speed also lets it handle fast Dragon-type threats like Garchomp as well as slower ones like Kyurem-Black.

If you want more offensive, just ride with Latios instead and drop HH for coverage.

 

[Sun Spirit]

Latias (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Helping Hand
- Tailwind
- Protect

This is the set I've always gone for, standard support. You can probably do something fancy with the EVs or run a more offensive item to score significant KOs but I find the simple set to be fine. Tailwind and Helping Hand are both invaluable assets to any team and Latias is good because it also has some offensive presence backed by a mostly unresisted STAB. It's high speed also lets it handle fast Dragon-type threats like Garchomp as well as slower ones like Kyurem-Black.

If you want more offensive, just ride with Latios instead and drop HH for coverage.

While I have looked at similar sets, I find that a single attack just gets you hard countered by any Fairy, Steel, or dual type with a resistance to Draco Meteor. Also, the -2 drop is not very attractive. Since you're in doubles, switching is not as common and to remove Latias could mean risking other Pokemon. Tailwind is not available in XY yet, unless it came with the move from Pokemon Bank.

 

[youngjake93]

While I have looked at similar sets, I find that a single attack just gets you hard countered by any Fairy, Steel, or dual type with a resistance to Draco Meteor. Also, the -2 drop is not very attractive. Since you're in doubles, switching is not as common and to remove Latias could mean risking other Pokemon. Tailwind is not available in XY yet, unless it came with the move from Pokemon Bank.

Switching in high level play is almost as common in doubles as it is in singles, sometimes even more common. Tailwind is available just as easily as Latias is available. Also, if you are walled by Fairy and Steel, then target the Pokemon that isn't Fairy or Steel; Latias is a support mon anyway and isn't really forced to attack at all. Plus, Draco Meteor is stronger than Dragon Pulse over 2 turns and it will be a rare occasion for you to spam Draco Meteor 3 times in a row with a support mon. Finally, Latias's prime niches over Cresselia are its Dragon typing for resistances, Draco Meteor for nukage, its speed(to some extent) and Tailwind.

Totem captured basically everything that makes Latias viable in a single set. I would suggest trying his set out more before making incorrect statements about it.

 

[Level 51]

While I have looked at similar sets, I find that a single attack just gets you hard countered by any Fairy, Steel, or dual type with a resistance to Draco Meteor. Also, the -2 drop is not very attractive. Since you're in doubles, switching is not as common and to remove Latias could mean risking other Pokemon. Tailwind is not available in XY yet, unless it came with the move from Pokemon Bank.

the thing about doubles, though, is that you generally don't try to have a single pokemon to take out the entirety of your opponent's team. latias' special attack is nowhere as good as some of the real powerhouses in the tier, and as such it may not be a very good idea to try to sweep with latias. hence blood totem's set which involves using latias as a very neat supporter. try it out; latias has a ton of things going for it as a support mon and not much as a sweeper.

 

[Sun Spirit]

Switching in high level play is almost as common in doubles as it is in singles, sometimes even more common. Tailwind is available just as easily as Latias is available. Also, if you are walled by Fairy and Steel, then target the Pokemon that isn't Fairy or Steel; Latias is a support mon anyway and isn't really forced to attack at all. Plus, Draco Meteor is stronger than Dragon Pulse over 2 turns and it will be a rare occasion for you to spam Draco Meteor 3 times in a row with a support mon. Finally, Latias's prime niches over Cresselia are its Dragon typing for resistances, Draco Meteor for nukage, its speed(to some extent) and Tailwind.

Totem captured basically everything that makes Latias viable in a single set. I would suggest trying his set out more before making incorrect statements about it.

I have use that set before, or a very similar one, and I agree that it is good. However, I was under the impression that Tailwind couldn't be learnt without the use of a GEN 5 move tutor. I tried to teach Tailwind to my Latias in XY but it wasn't listed as an option.

the thing about doubles, though, is that you generally don't try to have a single pokemon to take out the entirety of your opponent's team. latias' special attack is nowhere as good as some of the real powerhouses in the tier, and as such it may not be a very good idea to try to sweep with latias. hence blood totem's set which involves using latias as a very neat supporter. try it out; latias has a ton of things going for it as a support mon and not much as a sweeper.

I agree that it has great support, but I wanted to try something different, but sometimes things just don't work out as well as you'd like them to... But it is nice to see this much converstation.

 

[Joim]

Something no one else has mentioned, Latias learns Heal Pulse. It's underrated, but a bulky Latias can use it to some extent. It also learns Role Play, so it can get a powerful ability to be stronger or Mega Launcher and heal 75% with a single Heal Pulse. Gimmick or viable? I'll leave that choice to you.

 

[ryan]

I don't play doubles like at all, but I remember using a team last gen with Tailwind / Heal Pulse Latias, and it was pretty cool. It has the bulk to set up Tailwind multiple times throughout the match and heal up partners that get hurt while they're spamming high-powered attacks. Can't remember what all else was on the team because this was ages ago, but I definitely wouldn't call it a gimmick. Maybe not quite as consistent as standard sets, but perfectly viable.

 

[Lasagne]

I don't play doubles like at all, but I remember using a team last gen with Tailwind / Heal Pulse Latias, and it was pretty cool. It has the bulk to set up Tailwind multiple times throughout the match and heal up partners that get hurt while they're spamming high-powered attacks. Can't remember what all else was on the team because this was ages ago, but I definitely wouldn't call it a gimmick. Maybe not quite as consistent as standard sets, but perfectly viable.

I imagine this can definitely see use, but I don't think it would be as effective this gen thanks to one main factor: Togekiss. Togekiss is everywhere and spamming Follow Me, so Heal Pulse becomes an advantage for your opponent. It's an interesting set though, and one that I'd be interested to try out, though not sure on the single attacking move thanks to the addition of Fairy-types.

 

[Joim]

I think I'm not mistaken when I say this: Heal Pulse to your partner is not redirected to foe by Follow Me.

 

[Level 51]

I think I'm not mistaken when I say this: Heal Pulse to your partner is not redirected to foe by Follow Me.

except that you are

 

[Joim]

except that you are

In-game or in ps? If the latter it could be a bug.

 

[Level 51]

In-game or in ps? If the latter it could be a bug.

I haven't tested it out ingame yet, but it seems unlikely that Heal Pulse would resist redirection if other moves like Beat Up and Guard Split do.

 

[Joim]

I haven't tested it out ingame yet, but it seems unlikely that Heal Pulse would resist redirection if other moves like Beat Up and Guard Split do.

But redirection is side based, we recently fixed the bug that if you target a partner and then it faints mid-turn your move just misses. I reckon this is true of follow me and rage powder, they only redirect moves on their side to the user, I could be wrong, though, and we should test this in-game.

 

[Level 51]

But redirection is side based, we recently fixed the bug that if you target a partner and then it faints mid-turn your move just misses. I reckon this is true of follow me and rage powder, they only redirect moves on their side to the user, I could be wrong, though, and we should test this in-game.

What I meant to say was, if you use Guard Split on your ally, and the opponent uses Rage Powder, you end up Guard Splitting their Rage Powder user instead. Which is how it works ingame. Not sure if I understood you correctly but yes I suppose it would be a good idea to stop spamming this thread with our back-and-forth and test this ingame. zzz

 

[Pocket]

I faced a Latias + bulky Kanga (prolly max HP or something) before. It was annoying af. Latias would set up Tailwind and spam Heal Pulse on Kangaskhan, which never died x_x It also assisted Kanga in ending lives with Helping Hand :X

Pairing it up with Blastoise and roleplaying its Mega Launcher sounds really cool, too. Dragon Pulse now hits as powerful as Draco Meteor O_O. It can then support Blastoise by healing it 75% so it can sweep with Water Spout xd. Give Latias Tailwind / TWave and Rain Dance and Blastoise is gonna wreck some shit.

 

[Joim]

It seems that Clawitzer learns Entrainment, so that you can use Mega-K + Latias still, have Clawitzer there (also with 75% Heal Pulse LOL) and three other synergised mons. A gimmick that sounds actually good...

 

[BlankZero]

I don't think I'd classify it as a gimmick personally, just because it's not a One Trick pony like TerraCott, Simple Volcarona or Guard Split Shuckle/Blissey. It feels more like a team effort strategy, like Normalize Gengar. Borderline Gimmicky, but not so easily stopped by Taunt/Priority/etc like most common gimmicks.