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Learn to Swim..

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Juice!, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. Juice!


    Sep 25, 2010
    Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
    Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.

    Introduction //
    Hello Smogon! Some of you may remember me, many of you probably not as I haven't been around much since last summer. School kind of ate my soul for a bit there. Anyway, I've been going through some rough shit lately and the one thing that always cheers me up is battling so I figured I'd jump back in and start laddering. I got to the 1300s pretty quickly under my alt onetrickpony (on the Beta server, there's just always more people!) with a super standard Volt-Turn team, and since if you know me, you know I love any excuse for Sandstorm. But that wouldn't be very interesting for a RMT, now would it? I decided to go outside of my comfort zone, and use Rain for the first time since the Drizzle + Swift Swim ban. Yeah, it's been awhile. Basically I decided to have some fun with this, and use some Mons that I haven't really played much with. It's doing pretty well, but as always I know it needs improvement. Let's hear what you've got! :naughty: Also, the title and such is an obvious homage to Tool, since they're the greatest band of all time and what have you.

    Team Building Process //

    Obvious Politoed is obvious, since this be a Rain team. I'm using the defensive set I used back in the day because it's never steered me wrong.
    After that, I wasn't sure where to go however. So, I brainstormed a list of various different Rain abusers, and one that I'd always wanted to try out was Dragonite.
    Another set I was stoked to try out was Jirachi's Rain abuse set, and Wish support is never a bad thing, so I had my number three.
    Next up is another gem that I used to use on my old school Rain teams back in the early BW metagame. This thing is such a dick, and it can even sweep in unfavourable weather (seriously, I've done it). I'm talking about the beast known as Bulk Up Toxicroak.
    Next up is a mon that went from zero to hero between DPP and BW, and is also a big middle finger to opposing rain teams. I'm talking about Gastrodon of course.
    The team was really starting to come together at this point, but no entry hazards is unappealing, and I wouldn't mind a spinner for that matter. Oh hey I know something that does both those things and has its only weakness reduced in the rain. I finished the team up with Forretress.

    - Learn to Swim -

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Politoed @ [​IMG]

    Ability: Drizzle
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    [​IMG] Scald
    [​IMG] Toxic
    [​IMG] Perish Song
    [​IMG] Protect

    Description: Politoed is pretty much a no-brainer for a Rain team. It's Drizzle ability summons a permanent downpour from which all of my team benefits. When playing against other weather teams (read: most other teams) I am sure to be very careful as not to lose my friendly frog too early. Scald is the obligatory STAB move, offering a solid base power and accuracy, and is boosted by the rain. The 30% burn chance is icing on the cake, especially against stuff like Tyranitar. Toxic is there to poison walls and other defensive Pokemon, like my opponent's bulky Waters. Perish Song isn't something I use often but it's saved my ass when I have needed it. It acts as an "oh shit" button in case something starts setting up and I can't deal with it, not to mention putting a full stop to Baton Pass chains, as Substitute doesn't block the effects. Finally, Protect is great in the last slot for several reasons. It allows me to rack up Toxic or burn damage, it allows me to kill a Perish Song turn, and last but not least it allows Politoed a free turn of Leftovers recovery. Leftovers are a pretty standard item on a defensive Pokemon such as this, and needs no explanation. For Politoed's EVs, I've maxed out HP and defense, with the leftovers tossed in special defense. This gives Politoed the bulk it needs to take a hit and retaliate with a status move when the situation calls for it.

    Possible changes: Nah bro. I've been using this set since DrizzleToed was first released. Like, Manaphy was still OU at the time. It's a solid set.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Forretress @ [​IMG]

    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD
    [​IMG] Stealth Rock
    [​IMG] Spikes
    [​IMG] Rapid Spin
    [​IMG] Volt Switch

    Description: Forretress is my all around utility mon. Only having one weakness is awesome, and the fact that that weakness is reduced in the rain is even better. I knew I needed something to set up Stealth Rock on the team, as it nails two of the other weather starters for 25% each time they switch in, which is huge in helping win the weather war, and Forretress was an obvious choice to set it up. Next, I went with Spikes for more entry hazard damage on anything that doesn't Fly or Levitate. In the third slot I have Rapid Spin, which allows me to clear all hazards from my side of the field. This is especially useful against opposing Pokemon that try to set up hazards, as Forry can just set up alongside them, then Spin away their hard work, leaving my hazards intact. In the last slot I feel like Volt Switch is the best option. Uninvested, Forretress isn't hitting very hard regardless of what I use, so I feel this makes options such as Gyro Ball and Earthquake rather lackluster. Instead, Volt Switch allows me to maintain momentum by bringing in a threat after Forretress has finished doing whatever it needed to do. Its abyssmal speed means my switch-in will come in untouched too, while Forry generally has the bulk to take a hit as it switches out. Leftovers are a standard choice on a support Pokemon, so I saw no reason not to go with that for the item. I run a specially defensive EV spread over the more common physical one, which allows Forretress to take hits well from both ends of the spectrum.

    Possible changes: There's a few possible changes I could consider here. I've thought about dropping Spikes for Toxic Spikes, to wear down my opponents with residual poison damage, but since two Pokemon on my team already have the move Toxic, I'm not sure if that would be optimal. I've also considered just going with the fully defensive set, but right now I'm liking how the specially defensive set is working, so any input would be great.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Gastrodon @ [​IMG]

    Ability: Storm Drain
    Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD
    [​IMG] Earth Power
    [​IMG] Ice Beam
    [​IMG] Toxic
    [​IMG] Recover

    Description: Gastrodon was once relegated to the depths of NU, in favour of other bulky Waters, such as Swampert, or even Quagsire. However, BW greatly improved the Storm Drain ability, greating Gastrodon not only an immunity to Water type attacks, but also a +1 special attack boost when hit by one. Gastrodon is now an excellent counter to Rain teams, of which there are many. After a single boost, it hits surprisingly hard, especially for a wall. Earth Power is my STAB move of choice, hitting opposing Water types hard after that +1 boost. In the second slot I've opted for Ice Beam over a second STAB move. Ice/Ground offers excellent coverage, plus it offers a super-effective hit on Grass types, Gastrodon's only weakness. With a little prediction, I can hit my opponent's incoming Grass type with an Ice Beam as it switches in, before getting Gastrodon the hell out of there. Toxic is nice i the third slot as it allows me to wear down walls, such as opposing Gastrodon for example. Finally Recover is just an all around great move which allows Gastrodon to Toxic-stall certain opponents while restoring health in order to keep tanking hits. Once again, Leftovers make an appearance as the item of choice, allowing Gastrodon more recovery. Just like Forretress, I've gone with a fully specially defensive EV spread. With this spread, Gastrodon can even survive some special Grass type attacks and Recover off the damage, or retaliate with an Ice Beam.

    Possible changes: The only change I've really considered here is Scald over Ice Beam, but then I really can't do anything to Grass types, or a lot of the Dragons; Dragonite, Salamence, and the Lati twins would all resist/be immune to my attacking moves.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Toxicroak @ [​IMG]

    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    EVs: 244 HP/252 Atk/12 Def
    [​IMG] Bulk Up
    [​IMG] Substitute
    [​IMG] Drain Punch
    [​IMG] Sucker Punch

    Description: Toxicroak has to be my absolute favourite Rain abuser this generation. Thanks to the improved Drain Punch alongside Politoed's Drizzle, this guy is an absolute monster. Between Dry Skin, Leftovers, and Drain Punch, it recovers an absurd amount of health every turn. Bulk Up is the key move to this set, and after a few, this guy is nearly impossible to bring down with physical attacks. It can even laugh off Earthquakes from stuff like Hippowdon. Substitute blocks status, and eases prediction, as well as makes it easier to boost with Bulk Up. The health lost from making subs is negligible thanks to all the ways Toxicroak is restoring HP every turn. Drain Punch is the best STAB move for this set, offering perfect accuracy, and a decent base power. The main reason however, is that it restores HP equal to 50% of the damage dealt. After a couple Bulk Ups, this is a lot of HP, allowing you to continually set up Substitutes. When a threatening faster Pokemon comes in and your sub is down, or when the opponent switches in an annoying Ghost type that is immune to Drain Punch, that's when a priority Sucker Punch is launched, dealing with these threats. Fighting/Dark provides phenomenal coverage, only being resisted by Heracross, and ironically, other Toxicroak. Leftovers are necessary as this guy requires as much recovery as possible every turn. For the EV spread, attack is maxed to hit as hard as possible, while 244 in HP allow for optimal recovery. The rest is put in defense to help take those Earthquakes a little better.

    Possible changes: Absolutely not. I used to run Taunt over Substitute at first to avoid being pHazed out, but Sub makes it so much easier to get in those boosts, so once I made the change I haven't looked back.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ [​IMG]

    Ability: Multiscale
    Nature: Rash (+SpA, -SpD)
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 SpA/4 Spe
    [​IMG] Hurricane
    [​IMG] Aqua Tail
    [​IMG] ExtremeSpeed
    [​IMG] Roost

    Description: While this set may look rather unorthodox at first glance, it allows Dragonite to function as an effective mixed wallbreaker in the rain. Thanks to Multiscale, it's nearly impossible to KO this dragon in one shot, even without any defensive investment. Thanks to a multitude of common resistances as well as a nifty Ground immunity, Dragonite can easily switch in and start hammering away at my opponent's defenses. The main attack that gets spammed is the powerful Hurricane. With 120 BP before even factoring in STAB, it hits hard. The rain boosts its accuracy to 100%, meaning no Stone Edge-like instances of pulling out your own hair. On top of that, it has a lovely 30% chance to confuse the opponent. When Rock or Steel types come up, I fire off a powerful Aqua Tail. This is Dragonite's strongest physical Water type attack, and it gains pseudo-STAB in the rain. It will 2HKOBlissey in the rain as well, which is something the standard all-special rain abusing Dragonite cannot accomplish. Next, I have ExtremeSpeed. Since Dragonite is rather on the slow side, a priority attack is always a great boost. This allows Dragonite to pick off weakened sweepers, or things that just manage to survive a Hurricane. Finally in the last slot, I have Roost. This allows Dragonite to restore 50% of its maximum health, healing off Life Orb recoil and hopefully restoring Multiscale in order to take the next hit better. For the item, I've gone with a Life Orb. While it may seem counterproductive with Multiscale, it is necessary to achieve certain KOs. The EVs are placed in both attacking stats in order to hit as hard as possible with the rest in speed.

    Possible changes: I have toyed with the notion of going fully special on Dragonite, with a set of something like Hurricane, Thunder, Surf, and Roost/Draco Meteor, but that would leave Toxicroak as the only physical attacker, meaning it's a lot easier for Blissey to take a dump on this team's face. I've also thought about dropping Aqua Tail for Waterfall since I like accuracy, but I think Dragonite needs to hit as hard as possible.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ [​IMG]

    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP/224 Def/32 Spe
    [​IMG] Calm Mind
    [​IMG] Thunder
    [​IMG] Water Pulse
    [​IMG] Wish

    Description: The final Pokemon on the team is Jirachi. I've wanted to try out this rain based set for awhile, so I figured now was my chance. To be honest though, Jirachi is the one Pokemon on the team that I'm not 100% sold on, so I am open to suggestions for replacements if you guys feel it's not the right fit. However, when it gets going, it really gets going, and the Wish support is always awesome. Calm Mind is the key, allowing Jirachi to boost its special attack and special defense at the same time, allowing it to both take hits better, and hit harder. Thunder gains perfect accuracy in the rain, and with Serene Grace, the paralysis chance is boosted to 60%. Water Pulse gains pseudo-STAB in the rain, and has its confusion chance boosted to 40% with Serene Grace. Finally, Wish is just an awesome support move all around. The Wishes are used to heal Jirachi while setting up, or passed to teammates if a Jirachi sweep is not on the horizon. Leftovers again make an appearance, offering extra recovery. For the EV spread, HP is maxed in order to get the most out of Wish. A bunch in defense since I can't boost that stat, and a little in speed just to speed creep other base 100 stuff that doesn't invest, or invests very little.

    Possible changes: The set itself is fine as is, but I'm more wondering if a different Pokemon would be better. I've thought about Ferrothorn, thus freeing up Forretress to run Toxic Spikes instead. I've also thought about using a Scarfed Rotom-W, as it still gives me the same two attacking types, only they gain STAB, and I would have a powerful scout. Any input here would be greatly appreciated!

    Conclusion //
    I realize that was incredibly lengthy, so kudos to anyone who actually read all of that. As you can see, it's a solid team, but it could definitely use some help. I'm leaving this in your hands now Smogon, let's see what you've got! Cheers! :heart:

  2. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- Old Gen Legend
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the 2nd Smogon Classic Winneris a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Feb 27, 2009
    Hey there.

    SD Toxicroak can cause this team major problems, being able to set up on half of it and sweep cleanly since you have nothing to outrun run it. SD Gliscor is also a problem, and can set up on Forretress and demolish your team when after it's been weakened. Forretress is also set-up fodder for a plethora of other sweepers like SD Terrakion and DD Dragonite, and your team can't really handle them since they don't have the bulk and aren't fast enough. This problem can be fixed easily by replacing Jirachi with a Slowbro. Slowbro can counter almost every physical sweeper in the tier, making it a perfect physical wall for your team. Jirachi really isn't built to be one, and isn't necessary for your team in general as you commented.

    Show Hide
    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator
    252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def
    Bold nature
    -Ice Beam
    -Slack Off

    I also suggest running Earthquake over Earth Power on Gastrodon with a Sassy nature. Earthquake will work better for your team since it lets Gastrodon stop threats such as Calm Mind Jirachi more easily, and also lets it deal much more damage to Tentacruel.

    Solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!
  3. Honus

    Honus with them
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 23, 2011
    Hi there, cool team.

    Anyways I can see a combination of Life Orb Mamoswine and hazards being really annoying for this team. Life Orb Mamoswine's power is really underestimated, and can really take this team by surprise. Mamoswine is able to do 47.92% - 56.51% to your Politoed with a Jolly Nature and Life Orb, which means Politoed will only be able to switch in twice or thrice. This is a fairly good form of applying pressure to Politoed and Mamoswine also does 45.2% - 53.39% to Forretress and 68.54% - 80.99% to Gastrodon. Since the latter is 2HKOd and the former two lack Recovery, this is actually a pretty big crisis for your team, especially since the rest of it is outsped and OHKO'd by Mamoswine. Ice Shard/Icicle Crash are able to take out Dragonite while Earthquake takes care of both Jirachi and Toxicroak. LO Mamoswine really has the potential to be problematic for this team because of the reasons listed above, especially at the end of the game when your team has been damaged a bit. Swords Dance Virizion also has the potential to pull off a late game sweep, since your main counter to it is Toxicroak, but that can be phazed into spikes or trapped by Dugtrio, as well as a few other things. After Toxicroak has been removed, Swords Dance Virizion is able to set up on Forretress, which can't do anything to it and proceed to deal heavy damage to the rest of your team with Leaf Blade [kills Politoed and Gastrodon], Stone Edge [kills Dragonite] and Close Combat [hurts Jirachi]. Anyways I think you can solve most of these problems by trying a Physically Defensive Forretress with Gyro Ball over your current set. Gyro Ball and your increased Defense assures that neither Mamoswine or Virizion will be able to walk all over your Forretress and proceed to cause damage to your team.

    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin

    I'd also like to advocate ShakeItUp's change of Earthquake and a Sassy Nature on Gastrodon. Earthquake is really helpful for killing SubCM Jirachi with Psyshock, and can also allow you to kill stuff with high Special Defense like Tyranitar and Heatran, quicker and more efficiently. Earth Power does have its benefits, but Earthquake gives you good mixed coverage and helps you check more threats better. Finally, I think you could run 176 Speed EVs on your Jirachi so that you can outspeed things like Heatran, Breloom and most importantly, Lucario, which is able to prove somewhat threatening late game for this team, especially if multiscale is broken or Toxicroak is beaten up. After Lucario is paralyzed by Jirachi's Thunder, or just damaged enough for something else to take it out, defeating it becomes a much easier task for this team.

    Change Summary:

    Earth Power-> Earthquake and Sassy Nature

    Current EVs-> 176 Speed EVs
  4. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Mar 6, 2009
    Have you ever considered using Choice Specs Gastrodon over that one? I used to run that a while ago on my non-weather team to counter rain, and that little slug hits like a truck if you can get it a Storm Drain boost. And by truck, I mean a "can 2HKO Blissey and Ferrothorn with Surf" kind of truck. While your team is more defense based, Specs Gastrodon still has amble bulk with even more ample power, and still does that rain-countering you're after by absorbing all the Water-moves and firing back. Jirachi's Wish support also helps greatly for the little glasses-wearing slug so it doesn't have to use Recover as often.

    Here's the set:

    Gastrodon (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 SDef
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Earth Power
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover / Hidden Power Grass

    Mind you, this may help or hurt your team. I don't really know. But from my experience at least, this sucker is bulky and fun to use, so it's worth a shot! Best of luck!

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