Let Flygons be Flygons (OU Rain Balance)

--==THE TEAM==--


Hello everybody! It's been a while since I last made a RMT, nearly two and a half years. I guess in that entire time I never made a team worthy enough of posting. This team however has done very well recently. Just today I've gone about 20-4 with it. It does have its flaws however, which is where you guys come in. This is a very fun team to use and hopefully we can make it better.

Team building Process:

I've been using Gyarados a lot lately, and having great success with him, so I thought I'd build a team around him.



Forretress seemed like a good partner, as he could rapid spin for Gyarados and set up hazards to help his sweep. I decided to add in rain to make Gyara's STAB stronger, and to cover up Forretress's x4 fire weakness.

Metagross and Breloom came in as they also had synergy with both Gyarados and each other, and could help tear down walls that could stop Gyarados.

Severely lacking speed, I opted for moxie choice scarf Salamence. Two moxie pokemon seemed like a fun thing to try out.


Right off the bat I noticed a huge weakness to Starmie and other electric attackers, so I replaced Forretress with Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn can't spin, so I decided to take out Salamence and replace him with Flygon, who resists rocks and still has a ground immunity. I could have gone with Garchomp, but I like Flygon's U-Turn and his ability Levitate.

Breloom really wasn't contributing a whole lot for me at this point. Celebi was a huge problem and I lacked a way to stop the Celebi/Keledeo combo that 90% of people use now, so I set off to look for a good bug pokem on that could take down Celebi with ease. I stumbled upon Parasect, which as it turns out is a fantastic pokemon in rain, and a great counter to Keledeo/Celebi. I'll get to him in depth later on.


IN DEPTH

Politoed @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVS: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Focus Blast
-Perish Song

Politoed starts the team off with his amazing ability drizzle, which helps covers up Ferrothorn/Metagross/Parasect fire weaknesses. It really helps Gyarados sweep, since it boosts his main attack, Waterfall, and prevents other weather from hurting him. Sand damage over time is a nuisance, and sun will severely hinder him. It's also helps keep sun/sandstorm teams from doing what they want to do. I went with Choice Specs to dish out massive damage and blow holes through teams. I used to have HP Grass instead of Perish Song, but I found myself only spamming Hydro Pump and never using that move. Perish song is useful for stopping things that have set up too much, especially Cosmic Power Sigilyph. It also deals with Baton Pass teams well. I chose HP over speed because I'd rather be able to take some hits and switch around more, and it helps when fighting other weather teams. Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn hard, and Ice beam is for Dragons and Grass.


Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVS: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
-Stealth Rock
-Leech Seed
-Protect
-Power Whip

Ferrothorn, one of the greatest walls in the game. He does so much for me every game. You can throw him into almost any attack and he'll tank it, then proceed to set up and slowly chip away at the other team. He has perfect synergy with Gyarados, and can aid him greatly in his sweep. In rain he is nearly impossible to kill. This is a pretty standard Ferrothorn set. Leech Seed and Protect combined with leftovers allow for some pretty nice recovery. Protect also helps scout out dangerous moves and lets me see what choiced pokemon are using. Power Whip is a strong STAB move lets me hit water pokemon that I am always switching in to. As much as I would love to have Gyro Ball on this guy, I just don't have any room for it.


Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVS: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Bounce
-Substitute

This thing is an absolute beast. It just needs one Dragon Dance and then it's ready to sweep. If it gets even more, just forget about stopping him. I went with a fully offensive one since without a Rapid Spinner a bulky one wouldn't be staying alive long anyways. I used to run Adamant on him, but I found myself getting out sped and killed a lot after getting a DD off, by Jolteon in particular. Lum berry is there because burn is very hindering to his sweep, and without Substitute or Taunt I have no way of stopping incoming status. Lum berry also will allow me a free turn to set up DD while they try to burn me, only to have it get cured. Bounce is kind of a weird move but it's his best way to hit grass pokemon, and the paralysis comes in handy. I went with Earthquake over Stone edge because Toxicroak can be a problem, and Stone Edge is only really good for Rotom-W, whom I will most likely deal with before attempting a sweep with Gyara.


Metagross @ Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVS: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Hammer Arm
-Bullet Punch

I never really see anybody else use this guy, I can't understand why. He can beat almost any pokemon 1 on 1 as long as they don't have a ground move. His good bulk and sky high attack stat allow him to tear down a lot of common pokemon. With this set you won't be sweeping with him, but most of the time you will dish out more damage than you will take. Meta has perfect synergy with Flygon, good synergy with Gyarados, and can help weaken things that would otherwise wall Gyarados. I went with Lum berry again because a burn would render him useless. Leftovers don't help him much anyways, and life orb drains too much health. I don't like choice band on him either because the moves that you get locked into are easily walled, but in combination they are pretty devastating. I also use Bullet Punch a lot to finish off pokemon that have survived his first attack. Meteor Mash is his main STAB move, and Zen Headbutt is really nice to have too. It deals with all the fighting pokemon that would otherwise be an issue. Hammer arm hits most steel types hard, and the speed drop is actually quite nice, allowing me to hit Skarmory super effectively after a roost. This guy is great against trick room teams too.


Parasect @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVS: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
-Spore
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-X-Scissor

Parasect, perhaps one of the greatest counters to the ever so common Celebi/Keledeo combination that everyone now uses, makes a fantastic addition to this team. He can survive a Psychic after a Nasty Plot from a timid, 252 SAtk Celebi, and fight back with a STAB X-Scissor. Water immunity is fantastic to have, and he also resists other common attacks such as Fighting, Grass, and Electric. If he gets a Leech Seed out on someone, he can use Substitute every turn and actually gain HP thanks to Dry Skin and Leftovers. It's really not hard setting up when you have a 100% accurate sleep move. He may not be the bulkiest pokemon, but he just needs to survive one attack to start going to work. How this guy has dropped all the way down to NU just baffles me.

Here's a log of him doing his job and getting a guy to forfeit in 16 turns. The great part about this is that I didn't even have rain going, and yet he still performed excellently. - http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-15679069


Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVS: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Superpower
-U-Turn

Flygon is my revenge killer. He takes practically no residual damage so I can keep switching him in an out, and scout around with U-Turn. Outrage is used over Dragon Claw because Dragon Claw is just too weak and doesn't kill anything. Superpower is my best option for Steel types such as Ferrothorn, since Fire Punch won't do much in rain. He also makes a great late game sweeper. Once all Steel pokemon are gone and the other team is weak, Outrage will clean everything up.

Conclusion
Well that's my team I hope you liked it. I spent a lot of time making this so please feel free to comment/rate/leave suggestions/criticize. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Importable
Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 8 Spd / 248 HP / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
- Focus Blast

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed

Gyarados (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Bounce

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm

Parasect (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
Careful Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- X-Scissor

Flygon (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- U-turn


TOP THREATS


Tornadus is very hard to stop. Does anything even wall this thing? Hurricane deals massive damage even to things that resist it like Metagross. I almost always lose at least one pokemon to this guy, and my best hope for killing it is getting it to switch into Stealth rock a few times.


Forretress and Skarmory can take hits and set up Spikes and SR which are deadly to my team since I don't have a spinner. Politoed is my only special attacker and when Toed is gone, so are my ways of stopping these pokemon before they can set up on me.


This guy can Thunder Gyarados and Politoed, HP Ice Parasect and Flygon, and Focus Blast Ferrothorn. I usually have to switch around until I can get Metagross into an HP Ice, and then scare him away with Zen Headbutt. Getting him to switch into Stealth Rocks a few times is usually how he goes down.
 
That is a cool team! However, Thunderus-I is Uber, so no need to counter it :D.
However, if it's Thunderus-T you're worried about, then I suggest you change Flygon to Jolteon. It's synergy with Gyrados is fantastic, and it's abilty to take the Electric type moves that Politoed and Gyrados hate, and HEAL from it is too good to pass. I know that Flygon is the namesake of your team, but the only special attacker you have is Politoed. In this team's case, I would use the SubPass set. It can set up a Substitute on a Pokemon that theoretically had used an Electric type move the previous turn, then they're in trouble. You can either attack with Thunder or HP Ice, or if you have a Pokemon that needs a sub to help set up, then use Baton Pass to a Pokemon that can take status or a move. A great example of this is passing to Gyrados, essentially making it an offensive SubDD set that gets an extra coverage move. As for others, well, I can't think of any. I would reccommend a spinner or bouncer, but that would ruin your synergy, which is already a bit disturbed by Jolteon.

I hope this rate is useful! :D
 
Hello there! Nice team! I see you're having troubles with Torandus-I and Thundurus-T, so there's how you solve it.
Replace Metagross with Jirachi
Jirachi can take Hurricans for you and can take special hits much better. I suggest you to use a Sub + CM version it can set up against a lot of Pokemon.
And for the Thundurus-T, replace Scarfed Flygon to Scarfed Keldeo.
Scarfed Keldeo can outpace scarfed Thundurus-T and revenge kill it with Surf or Hydro Pump. And I suggest you to use Substitute + Dragon Dance version of Gyarados.
Overall, nice team! Good Luck! Hope I helped!

Sets:
Jirachi@Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Evs: 252HP 100DEF 156SPE
~ Substitute
~ Calm Mind
~ Thunder
~ Flash Cannon

Keldeo@Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252SpA 252Spe 4HP
~ Surf
~ Hydro Pump
~ Secret Sword
~ Hidden Power Ice

Gyarados@Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 88HP 248ATK 4DEF 168SPE
~ Substitute
~ Dragon Dance
~ Waterfall
~ Bounce
 
I actually REALLY like this team! I'm a sucker for Flygon, and love the Flygon+Gyarados core I used extensively back in DPP.

I have a couple ideas to consider for this team. One is possibly fitting Stealth Rock on Metagross somewhere so Ferrothorn can use Spikes instead. I would replace Zen Headbutt, since you already hit things hard with Meteor Miss anyway, and have Gyarados for covering Fighting types. That being said, some Jirachi variant may be helpful in that slot as well instead of Metagross; I ran into one SpD Rain-based Jirachi today that had Thunder / Iron Head / U-turn / ???, and it was the keystone to the opponent winning with paralysis spam. Last slot could be Stealth Rock if you wished. Just more options to consider for that slot.

Gyarados I would for sure say to change to SubDD. I've found that while Offensive is mean, SubDD is much harder to stop once it finds a good opportunity. Intimidate is also great for halting Fighting types if you change Zen Headbutt or don't want to switch in Parasect.

Other than that, I love the cool-factor you have by using under-used things. Absolutely love it. Luvdisc'd.
 
That is a cool team! However, Thunderus-I is Uber, so no need to counter it :D.
However, if it's Thunderus-T you're worried about, then I suggest you change Flygon to Jolteon. It's synergy with Gyrados is fantastic, and it's abilty to take the Electric type moves that Politoed and Gyrados hate, and HEAL from it is too good to pass. I know that Flygon is the namesake of your team, but the only special attacker you have is Politoed. In this team's case, I would use the SubPass set. It can set up a Substitute on a Pokemon that theoretically had used an Electric type move the previous turn, then they're in trouble. You can either attack with Thunder or HP Ice, or if you have a Pokemon that needs a sub to help set up, then use Baton Pass to a Pokemon that can take status or a move. A great example of this is passing to Gyrados, essentially making it an offensive SubDD set that gets an extra coverage move. As for others, well, I can't think of any. I would reccommend a spinner or bouncer, but that would ruin your synergy, which is already a bit disturbed by Jolteon.

I hope this rate is useful! :D
I completely agree with the thing about Jolteon. He has awesome type synergy with your team and it is capable of revenge killing as well.
 
I think Ritik is right to a certin point, putting a Jirachi on the team would help against your two offensive threats and it would be a njce addition to your special arsenal, however I would run this set intead:

Jirachi@ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 Hp / 164 SpA / 98 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon

Seting up 3 calm-minds will help Thunder take care of Tornadus-I and Flash Cannon will 2HKO Thundurus-T. Wish will also help Gyrados in case he has lost some health so he can attempt to sweep multiple times. And getting of the Paralysis will help Gurados further more.. Hope I helped!
 
Thanks for the rates everyone.

@Psylink - Whoops had the wrong thunderus picture there, it's changed now.

Jolteon does sound like a good idea. I'll definitely have to test that out. Flygon is probably the most expendable member of the team, I just used his name in the title because I thought the pun was funny. I just worry about my team will be too weak to ground now, since Gyarados is the only one who doesn't take neutral or super effective damage, and I don't like to switch around with him much. Maybe run air balloon on Jolteon? Or would lefties/life orb be better?

@Ritik
- I'll have to try out Jirachi too. Can Jirachi do as well against physical attacks though? Metagross was my answer to a lot of fighting pokemon like Terrakion and Conkledurr.

As for using Keledeo, I don't see how that would help much. Thunder hurts Keledeo badly, and Flygon can revenge kill thunderus too. Keledeo is such a common pokemon and most teams will have an answer for it, and I don't really want this to turn into another boring, standard rain team.

Sub on Gyara sounds good. It's what I used to run, I can't remember the exact reason why I switched it to EQ. I'm still sticking with max speed because there's a lot of scarfers out there that need to be out sped.

@Seth Vilo
- Metargross reaaaaally needs Zen Headbutt, I can't tell you how much I use that. His combination of attacks are only really resisted by water/psychic as far as I know, and dropping that would mean hundreds of more pokemon would wall me. If spikes are so important, I could probably switch Metagross for Jirachi and run Stealth Rocks on her. Only thing though is that if I change to Jirachi, then I would probably have to change Moxie to Intimidate on Gyarados like you said, but I love Moxie and don't want to give it up. Also, if I switch EQ for Substitute, do I have to change his EVS? I really think he needs max speed but I don't want to drop his attack either.

@AriaBladez - Thanks for the input, I'll certainly give Jolteon a go.

@iDecember
- Okay, I guess everybody wants me to use Jirachi. I've never really liked her that much, and Metagross is so cool, but you do bring up good points.

@Everyone So now there have been 3 different sets mentioned for Jirachi, which one would be best? Thunder seems obvious. Wish would really help out team mates, and SR would allow Ferro to run spikes, although I don't have a spinblocker. I don't know how useful Calm Mind is. I never use Jirachi so this is hard lol.

If I do change Metagross to Jirachi, should I still switch Flygon to Jolteon? Or if I switch Flygon to Jolteon, should I still switch Meta to Jirachi? I'm pretty sure Jolteon+Metagross is enough to take on Tornadus/Thunderus.

Thanks again to everyone that's helping me.
 

@Seth Vilo
- Metargross reaaaaally needs Zen Headbutt, I can't tell you how much I use that. His combination of attacks are only really resisted by water/psychic as far as I know, and dropping that would mean hundreds of more pokemon would wall me. If spikes are so important, I could probably switch Metagross for Jirachi and run Stealth Rocks on her. Only thing though is that if I change to Jirachi, then I would probably have to change Moxie to Intimidate on Gyarados like you said, but I love Moxie and don't want to give it up. Also, if I switch EQ for Substitute, do I have to change his EVS? I really think he needs max speed but I don't want to drop his attack either.
Righto on Zen Headbutt! I wager it's good to not have to rely on Meteor Miss. XD

To answer your question on SubDD Gyarados, yeah it'll need different EV's. The site's EV spread will suffice, with one minor change. That spread is 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe Jolly. The on-site Bulky DD set shifts 4 Atk to Def to prevent a burned Ferrothorn from breaking your Subs with Power Whip, but since you have no burn moves that can go into Attack. The nature and EV's let you outspeed Jolteon at +1 for a surprise kill, and outrun Scarf Latios at +2.

EDIT: Also, I'm going to side on keeping Flygon any way you go. Mainly for cool factor and flare, and cause it's freakin annoying to face sometimes, especially if you have more hazards laid down. Yes I'm biased. I love Flygon.
 
I think you've gotten some good ideas so far. Despite the title and everything, there's really no reason to use Flygon over Landorus-I. The extra speed takes the guesswork out of killing scarfed 100s like Salamence and Volcarona. In addition Landorus is way more powerful, and more effective in weather battles by turning your opponent's sand against them and having harder hitting options against sun. A fighting resistance also cannot be underestimated in fifth generation. A final perk is that Sheer Force Special Landorus-I is so omnipresent that Sandorus' hard hitting U-turns make a sweep all by themselves. Celebi and Latias will almost surely switch in if they are on the other team, they eat a U-turn, and then they can't wall Landorus or all your Water-types anymore. Here is the set:

Landorus-I @ Choice Scarf
Jolly / Sand Force
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-U-turn
-HP Ice / Superpower

I also really support the SubCM Jirachi over Metagross suggestion. It alleviates your huge Ferrothorn problem, who can currently wall your whole team, by setting up on it and then blasting away with Calm Mind-boosted attacks. Best of luck with the team!
 
I forgot about Air Balloon. I don't like using it due to it's tendency to pop so much, but it's worth a try! I might try this team on the ladder. I'll report the results.
 
I really hate to be the party pooper, but, as much as i like Flygon, Landorus-I does literally EVERYTHING Flygon does, but better(aside from outrages).

On Gyarados I actually suggest running sub over EQ. I have experience using it and it is really hard to stop once it gets going. You bring it in on something like gastrodon and bait the toxic, sub then DD and wreck!

Something about that Metagross bothers me but if it has been working then keep it

Now I was going to say something about Parasect, but after watching that log, KEEP THAT THING, KEEEEEEEP IIIIIITTT!!!!
 
@Everyone - So I tried out Joleton, and while it did help against some of my top threats, it opened up a whole new problem for the team. I was completely weak against sun teams. If a Nintales uses sunny day against my toed, I have nobody to switch to besides Gyarados, who doesn't perform well in Sun at all. I'm convinced that Flygon's spot has to be taken up by some sort of Dragon. I was thinking maybe CM Latias? With Latias using CM, I can use Metagross instead of Jirachi. I tried out Jirachi and didn't have much success with it either. It was completely useless against sun and standstorm teams, and I never got any opportunities to set up CM. Metagross was the glue that held everything together, and I don't think replacing him with Jirachi just because it's usually a better pokemon helps out my team.

@Seth Vilo
- I tried the new Gyarados setup and I must say it performed a lot better. I just don't know whether to keep Lum Berry on him or put on Leftovers. I also think Flygon is a really cool pokemon. He's always been one of my favorites. I just wish he had a little more attack, because he's not killing everything that needs to be killed.

@Friar - Landorus sounds like a good idea, my only issue with him is that he lacks a Fire resistance, and my team is weak to fire when rain isn't coming down. I'll try him out though.

@Zeta5 - Like I said to Fiar, Landorus does sound better because of much better stats, but I like Flygon's ground/fire resistances. Another fighting resister would be good though, and I'll experiment with him.

I did switch EQ to sub and Gyara and it's been doing better :).

Rofl who knew Parasect would turn out to be so useful? People see that thing in team view and go "wtf..."
 
Hi, nice team you've got there.

I've got one teammate suggestion to make, that being Rotom-W w/ Choice Scarf.

Using the washing machine, you can take care of every single thing in your threat list with hydro pump alone, and it doesnt leave you weaker to sun. Volt Switch is also really good for maintaining momentum.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure which teammate to swap out for Rotom, so i'll leave that to you.

Here's the set you should run:


Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Hope this helps.
 
@Seth Vilo[/COLOR] - I tried the new Gyarados setup and I must say it performed a lot better. I just don't know whether to keep Lum Berry on him or put on Leftovers. I also think Flygon is a really cool pokemon. He's always been one of my favorites. I just wish he had a little more attack, because he's not killing everything that needs to be killed.
Definitely go with Leftovers. Subs combined with Stealth Rock and possible sand/hail damage adds up, and Gyarados probably isn't your Scald-absorber anyway since you've got Parasect. Other status moves you should be able to block with a quick Sub, and if you have weather control you can heal that Sub damage right up after a few turns.

Reading through the other people's comments, it does look like Landorus-I may be a good Scarfer replacement for Flygon... IF you want it do the the same thing Flygon is doing. One more option is to try out some form of Latios over Flygon if you still want a Dragon somewhere. Latios and Gyarados love each other, with Latios battering physical walls (and Special ones with Psyshock) and Gyarados taking all manners of priority aimed at Latios (especially with Intimidate) as well as eating general Scizor for breakfast. Any set out of Scarf, Specs, or LO could serve you well, but LO is particularly fun with Rain support for stupid powerful Surfs while being able to switch moves around. Just run Draco Meteor / Surf / Psyshock / Trick|Roost, the last slot depending on Choice item of LO. If you're really feeling creative, there's also a fabled Water Gem Rain Dance Latios set so you can have a backup weather-setter if Politoed goes down before the opponent's weather inducer does; that's just a set of Draco Meteor / Surf / Psyshock / Rain Dance @ Water Gem. Just another idea my currently coffee-lacking brain came up with for ya.
 
Hmmmmm...

That sun team weakness is a killer, huh? If only there was Cyclohm in regular OU, right?

I think you need to run Earthquake over Zen Headbutt on Metagross, and run Occa Berry on it. I know it's irregular, but you really need a good check to sun teams, even with Politoed there. Earthquake can also hit Ninetales on the switch. Jolteon is crucial to some threats, and that change could help with Ninetales at least.
 

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