Linked

[Akumeoy]

Well you could do something super silly like Feint + Fake Out, if anything learns that. And, of course, assuming Fake Out still counts as being used first turn when it's the second move of the link.

Of the things that could conceivably be usable for this role in this meta: Infernape, Kecleon, Medicham, Mienshao, Toxicroak, Weavile. Although honestly, just dropping moar speed on something or using a +1 Priority move (Fake Out + Ice Shard Weavile is great, Fake Out + Mach Punch Infernape might also be good) is simpler than trying to wrangle +2 Priority for Fake Out.

V-turn isn't even the biggest problem. The real problem, to me, is Fake Out + U-turn with Scarfed Ambipom and whatever other Scarfed thing, typically Infernape iirc. Anything that isn't Ghost-type and doesn't have the ability Inner Focus will be slowly chipped to death.

Steel-types, Rocky Helmet (esp. on Garchomp and Ferrothorn), priority, and entry hazards all help with this without being otherwise useless. Mienshao's Regenerator is problematic here, though. I guess Volcarona's Flame Body gives a 51% chance to burn over two contact moves, but I don't know whether it's actually good in practice.

This is assuming that Fake-Turn stays legal (people seem reluctant to actually use it lmao), but for the time being, it does have answers.

 

[Adonzo]

Because it had to be done.

Lickilicky @ Choice Band
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Explosion

Just to elaborate on this, this is a guaranteed OHKO on anything in the game that isn't a Ghost or Rock/Steel type, and it still does upwards of 80% to the Rock/Steels.

 

[FlameUser64]

Just to elaborate on this, this is a guaranteed OHKO on anything in the game that isn't a Ghost or Rock/Steel type, and it still does upwards of 80% to the Rock/Steels.

Yeah. You legit have to be both Rock and Steel dual-type for this. Guys, this is nuts.

+6 252+ Atk Choice Band Lickilicky Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Aggron: 386-455 (112.2 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

DED. Deader than dead. Look at this. LOOK AT THIS THING. Instant KO to a full-physdef Mega Aggron, the strongest physical wall in the game. RIP stall, Lickilicky is here to blow a massive hole in your defence. You know, just in case stall hadn't been killed dead enough by FakeTurn. If you want to blow up anything ever, this is how you do it.

 

[Floette]

Just to elaborate on this, this is a guaranteed OHKO on anything in the game that isn't a Ghost or Rock/Steel type, and it still does upwards of 80% to the Rock/Steels.

But if you see your opponent running Lickilicky, you know what they're going to do with it lol.

 

[FlameUser64]

But if you see your opponent running Lickilicky, you know what they're going to do with it lol.

Of course, they'll run Knock Off on their third slot to hit Ghost-types on the switch.

 

[Breaking Mew]

A few more ideas I had for this game:

Trick Room could become very powerful. One of its main limitations has been switching from setters to abusers; it takes a turn, and could lead to your TR abuser getting smashed in the switch.
A Linked Trick Room / U-turn combo could be very good here; the u-turn is guaranteed to go last, and you get potentially twice as many moves to use while under TR. This beats non-priority protect / fake out, but is stalled out by priority protect / fake out.

And even better, TR makes that Lickilicky set perfectly viable actually useable!

Cloyster, Ambipom or Cinccino with King's Rock now have a 65% chance to flinch.
Serene Grace with two 30% flinching moves has an 84% chance of flinching.

Actually, I have a lot more ideas of questional viability, so I'm going to try making a team and playing some games, rather than just theorymonning.

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

I'm really loving Bisharp in this meta.

Bisharp (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Assurance
- Psycho Cut/Sucker Punch
- Thunder Wave

This set serves a couple different purposes. It's main purpose is to be a revenge killer, despite it's only decent speed tier. Before I discovered how to use this, Talonflame with Gale Wings and Ariel Ace + Brave Bird absolute shredded through my team. This is actually a very dependent Talon killer as long as Sash isn't broken before hand. Most of them stay in assuming you're stupid for sending a Steel in against Fire STAB, but Power-Up Punch + STAB Assurance is really strong. This combo also allows you to easily transfer from a revenge kill into a mini sweep if they don't have priority to take you out. Psycho Cut is for if you're really desperate to kill those 4x effective Fighting types, and STAB Sucker Punch is pretty obviously helpful. It's also decent at Twaving whatever needs a Twave, which is good too. It's ability being Inner Focus is very important, and it's resistance to Fake Out makes it that much better. I really love the versatility of this poke and hope to see more peeps take advantage of it. :]

Also wanted to point out that Endure leaves you with the 1HP even if you get hit multiple times in the same turn if I'm not mistaken. That could probably make for some weird niche sets. :o

 

[DinaIsha]

I already had a hunch about this meta and now I'm sad it's true in practice. This is not a balanced meta. This is more in the vein of Metagamiate or Offensification, where Stall has to struggle just to find a sure footing.

The problem being, many 3HKOs are now 2HKOs and many 2HKOs are 0HKOs or closer. Pivoting and Recovering are much harder to perform as such and Stall is left lopsided.

It's still a great idea. If this ever becomes OMotM, I will try and build a Stall team. I love breaking a meta, but I hate an unbalanced meta a considerable amount.

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

I call it: One Man Army

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-1607071

 

[Adonzo]

I call it: One Man Army

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-1607071

dat countersweep tho

 

[Slayer95]

So I update some stuff today, and as a totally desired secondary effect, Victini is more powerful than ever.
This is what max attack Victini can do to its V-Turn counter, Heatran:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-1614012

Can it get banned already?

Also there was a critical bug that affected the duration of some statuses, including but not limited to Confusion and Sleep.
Now both statuses are as powerful as they should be here.

---

By the way, I loved Will-O-Wisp + Hex Gengar in standard, but was disappointed of its being so ineffective there. In Linked, however, it can be used to its fullest potential!

Another interesting combo that I have tried is Super Fang + Brine, but it needs the target to be weakened already due to rounding, and I am not sure if it's really effective.

 

[Jajoken]

Trick Room could become very powerful. One of its main limitations has been switching from setters to abusers; it takes a turn, and could lead to your TR abuser getting smashed in the switch.
A Linked Trick Room / U-turn combo could be very good here; the u-turn is guaranteed to go last, and you get potentially twice as many moves to use while under TR. This beats non-priority protect / fake out, but is stalled out by priority protect / fake out.

I love Trick Room, so I wanted to find some 'mons that could abuse this combo. It looks like Fake Out is really dominant, so here are three sets that beat it, albeit without U-turn, sadly (no Ghost/Inner Focus user learns it and Trick Room).

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 70 Def / 188 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Memento
- (Filler)
- (Filler)

Dusclops is bulky enough to take most hits and setup Trick Room, then proceed to sacrifice itself while crippling the opponent in the meantime. Memento will allow you to safely bring in a setup sweeper, and will often negate any boosts the enemy thinks it can set up on Dusclops. If you're worried about Taunt, Mental Herb Cofagrigus can run the same set with similar levels of bulk. One nice thing about Dusclops, however, is that Frisk can scout the enemy lead's item.

Gourgeist-Super @ Sitrus Berry/Normal Gem
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Explosion
- (Filler)
- (Filler)

Another Frisk-using suicidal Ghost? Gourgeist is a more offensive variant of the above set, with worse bulk and arguably worse typing, but the ability to deal massive damage with Explosion. Sitrus Berry lets you live more hits, but Normal Gem boosts the power of Explosion. Gourgeist is also more effective to keep around before you set up Trick Room and die, as it can throw out Leech Seed and do good priority damage with Shadow Sneak, among other options. Still, it's primary goal is to allow a slow sweeper 5 turns of Trick Room, and possibly kill weak Pokemon not expecting Explosion.

Girafarig @ Sitrus Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Baton Pass
- Future Sight/Psychic
- Calm Mind/Nasty Plot/Hyper Voice

The only Inner Focus user that I can find with a switch move, Girafarig is the only one of these three sets that actually lives when it sets up Trick Room, allowing it to come back and do it again. Baton Pass will always go last, ensuring a safe switch. Girafarig is sadly quite frail, so it can't afford to mix its defensive stats or hold an offensive item/Mental Herb. The last two slots are if you're feeling cheeky -- if you can manage to safely use Future Sight before you Baton Pass out, your TR client will enjoy a bonus chunk of damage when they attack. You could also set up a Calm Mind or Nasty Plot to pass along with TR. If you just want reliable, weak, poorly-covered damage, Psychic and Hyper Voice are always options.

 

[Hack_Guy]

So I update some stuff today, and as a totally desired secondary effect, Victini is more powerful than ever.
This is what max attack Victini can do to its V-Turn counter, Heatran:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-1614012

Can it get banned already?

Also there was a critical bug that affected the duration of some statuses, including but not limited to Confusion and Sleep.
Now both statuses are as powerful as they should be here.

---

By the way, I loved Will-O-Wisp + Hex Gengar in standard, but was disappointed of its being so ineffective there. In Linked, however, it can be used to its fullest potential!

Another interesting combo that I have tried is Super Fang + Brine, but it needs the target to be weakened already due to rounding, and I am not sure if it's really effective.

Usually victini runs v-create and u-turn in the link, so unless it decided to lock itself into bolt strike/fusion bolt (most victini run choice scarf/band) heatran should be able to tank a u-turn

 

[Akumeoy]

Usually victini runs v-create and u-turn in the link, so unless it decided to lock itself into bolt strike/fusion bolt (most victini run choice scarf/band) heatran should be able to tank a u-turn

I think the point is that it can act effectively as a lure to destroy the counter to its typical set. But in general, this is a downgrade from V-Turn's utility.

 

[Ghoul King]

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 70 Def / 188 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Memento/Grudge
- (Filler)
- (Filler)

Dusclops is bulky enough to take most hits and setup Trick Room, then proceed to sacrifice itself while crippling the opponent in the meantime. Memento will allow you to safely bring in a setup sweeper, but Grudge may be able to rob an opponent of its most powerful move. I don't know how running out of PP works if two moves are linked, but Grudge could possibly kill the link altogether. I also don't know if it removes the PP from both of the moves used on it, but more likely just the most recent one. If you're worried about Taunt, Mental Herb Cofagrigus can run the same set with similar levels of bulk. One nice thing about Dusclops, however, is that Frisk can scout the enemy lead's item.

Destiny Bond is almost always going to be superior to Grudge, and Dusclops gets it, and can combine it with Trick Room.

 

[FlameUser64]

Destiny Bond is almost always going to be superior to Grudge, and Dusclops gets it, and can combine it with Trick Room.

The goal is to ensure that you die the same turn you set Trick Room so that your Trick Room sweeper gets maximum TR time.

 

[Ghoul King]

Grudge is Destiny Bond for PP. It doesn't KO the user directly.

 

[FlameUser64]

Grudge is Destiny Bond for PP. It doesn't KO the user directly.

Ah, true. I'd forgotten about that. In that case, Memento is the only viable option for that set.

 

[Jajoken]

Ah, true. I'd forgotten about that. In that case, Memento is the only viable option for that set.

My bad, I've never once used Grudge and read the description wrong. You're right -- Memento is the way to go, then.

 

[26DUDE26]

this isnt me but i was looking at linked replays for some good ideas for teams and i saw this.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-1613930
NEW META
HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

 

[FlameUser64]

this isnt me but i was looking at linked replays for some good ideas for teams and i saw this.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-1613930
NEW META
HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

That's not even hax. He has an 84% flinch chance with that setup. That's why you bring something fast to every Linked team. Or at least something with Inner Focus. Nice try with Mach Punch Breloom, but tbh in Linked it might be a good idea to link Mach Punch with Feint for a bit of extra damage.

Edit: What's stupid is attempting to set screens rather than simply hitting Jirachi for that last little bit of damage.

 

[Hack_Guy]

this isnt me but i was looking at linked replays for some good ideas for teams and i saw this.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-linked-1613930
NEW META
HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

That jirachi would be stopped entirely in its tracks by anything with a choice scarf and knock off lol

Edit: Forgot to mention. I was looking through some replays of the meta. And an ambipom/infernape core seems very common. In fact, fake-turn seems to be a near unstoppable combination aside from inner focus users (mega Gallade's ability finally has some use lol). So I pose this question, should Fake-Turn be banned?

 

[FlameUser64]

That jirachi would be stopped entirely in its tracks by anything with a choice scarf and knock off lol

Edit: Forgot to mention. I was looking through some replays of the meta. And an ambipom/infernape core seems very common. In fact, fake-turn seems to be a near unstoppable combination aside from inner focus users (mega Gallade's ability finally has some use lol). So I pose this question, should Fake-Turn be banned?

If you were to use Steadfast, wouldn't you get two boosts if you tried to use your Linked move on the turn you were flinched? That might be a cool trick to be honest. Another way to stop Fake-turn is simply to hit it with powerful priority, since Ambipom at least is quite frail.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Feint vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ambipom: 113-134 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ambipom: 226-267 (77.6 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's a KO'd Ambipom, right there.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

That jirachi would be stopped entirely in its tracks by anything with a choice scarf and knock off lol

Edit: Forgot to mention. I was looking through some replays of the meta. And an ambipom/infernape core seems very common. In fact, fake-turn seems to be a near unstoppable combination aside from inner focus users (mega Gallade's ability finally has some use lol). So I pose this question, should Fake-Turn be banned?

After playing some games, I don't think Fake-Turn should be banned because of these things. This is just my opinion though.
1. They got easily nailed by unlinked Fake Out and Protect (which still has high priority) and I think because of how high damage output in Linked moves, that makes coverage less important in this metagame and I think non-Choiced pokes are fine with wasting a move with unlinked Protect or Fake Out.
2. Fake-Turn cores don't have any priority. That means any strong dual priority users like Talonflame or Dragonite will nail them.
3. Switching many times means they will get worn down by hazards.

Seriously people need to use more dual priorities here. They are very good to revenge kill things like this and they allow you to hold Choice Band for extra damage, which will kill some things that has bulk.

 

[M'joe'ra]

After playing some games, I don't think Fake-Turn should be banned because of these things. This is just my opinion though.
1. They got easily nailed by unlinked Fake Out and Protect (which still has high priority) and I think because of how high damage output in Linked moves, that makes coverage less important in this metagame and I think non-Choiced pokes are fine with wasting a move with unlinked Protect or Fake Out.
2. Fake-Turn cores don't have any priority. That means any strong dual priority users like Talonflame or Dragonite will nail them.
3. Switching many times means they will get worn down by hazards.

Seriously people need to use more dual priorities here. They are very good to revenge kill things like this and they allow you to hold Choice Band for extra damage, which will kill some things that has bulk.

Something that you are forgetting is that steadfast and inner focus exist, and thus proceed to make life extremely hard for the opponent once the other guy tanks the fake out-turn and then either gets +1 speed or is able to hit really hard back. I.E. Mega Gallade.