Linked

[Akumeoy]

Im not really an expert on Stall. So im wondering how it would cope up here with the offensive nature of the meta overall

I can see status spreading and recovery being very viable in a link together, as is status+ switching move or easy wish passing

I think stall will need to be creative to stick around, but making clever use of its links would be helpful. Mostly off the top of my head:

• Chansey might be better, because I don't know whether people are gonna want to put Knock Off in their link, and thus it might be better at switching in. It can run Wish + Soft-Boiled in a link to Wish-pass while preserving its own integrity, Soft-Boiled + Seismic Toss to perform better against opponents it can't really touch with status moves, Stealth Rock + Toxic to make the best out of predicted switches, you name it.
• Gliscor can use Substitute + Roost to catch up with the opponents sending out two moves at once, and basically be a royal pain in the ass as usual.
• Skarmory can deter setup and Defog with Stealth Rock + Whirlwind (dat reduced priority SR), handle dangerous hazard setters with Defog + Whirlwind, or set up while stalling with Spikes + Roost.
• Clefable has the Calm Mind + Stored Power link I mentioned earlier, as well as a lot of the same recovery tricks that Chansey does.
• Heatran likes spreading status with Toxic + Roar, or making chip damage with Stealth Rock + Roar, or Taunting and setting up Stealth Rock in one go.
• Thundurus can Taunt + T-Wave an opponent in one shot, which wrecks most things. And then it can do whatever.
• Mega Sableye likes to boost and attack at the same time; I wouldn't want to waste PP on putting Recover in the link, though, unless it was linked to an attack.

While offense benefits largely from being able to drop massive loads of damage in one shot, stall gets incredible momentum in this meta and seems unlikely to waste many turns. I think strategies that take advantage of this will probably be the dominant form of stall.

Oh, and if I run a Return + High Jump Kick on Mega Lopunny and I KO something with Return, will Mega Lopunny take recoil from HJK?

 

[Hack_Guy]

I think stall will need to be creative to stick around, but making clever use of its links would be helpful. Mostly off the top of my head:

• Chansey might be better, because I don't know whether people are gonna want to put Knock Off in their link, and thus it might be better at switching in. It can run Wish + Soft-Boiled in a link to Wish-pass while preserving its own integrity, Soft-Boiled + Seismic Toss to perform better against opponents it can't really touch with status moves, Stealth Rock + Toxic to make the best out of predicted switches, you name it.
• Gliscor can use Substitute + Roost to catch up with the opponents sending out two moves at once, and basically be a royal pain in the ass as usual.
• Skarmory can deter setup and Defog with Stealth Rock + Whirlwind (dat reduced priority SR), handle dangerous hazard setters with Defog + Whirlwind, or set up while stalling with Spikes + Roost.
• Clefable has the Calm Mind + Stored Power link I mentioned earlier, as well as a lot of the same recovery tricks that Chansey does.
• Heatran likes spreading status with Toxic + Roar, or making chip damage with Stealth Rock + Roar, or Taunting and setting up Stealth Rock in one go.
• Thundurus can Taunt + T-Wave an opponent in one shot, which wrecks most things. And then it can do whatever.
• Mega Sableye likes to boost and attack at the same time; I wouldn't want to waste PP on putting Recover in the link, though, unless it was linked to an attack.

While offense benefits largely from being able to drop massive loads of damage in one shot, stall gets incredible momentum in this meta and seems unlikely to waste many turns. I think strategies that take advantage of this will probably be the dominant form of stall.

Oh, and if I run a Return + High Jump Kick on Mega Lopunny and I KO something with Return, will Mega Lopunny take recoil from HJK?

Mega lopunny will probably take recoil from hjk because it missed. So I'd suggest putting it first in the link so that you fire off a HJK and not die to recoil if it KOs

 

[FlameUser64]

Mega lopunny will probably take recoil from hjk because it missed. So I'd suggest putting it first in the link so that you fire off a HJK and not die to recoil if it KOs

That depends, actually. Would it behave as a "But there was no target…" like in the games? And if so, does that count as a miss? I've tried looking up the move High Jump Kick on Bulbapedia, but it says nothing about the move's behaviour when no target exists to be hit.

 

[Akumeoy]

That depends, actually. Would it behave as a "But there was no target…" like in the games? And if so, does that count as a miss? I've tried looking up the move High Jump Kick on Bulbapedia, but it says nothing about the move's behaviour when no target exists to be hit.

I tried this out: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-199451340

Lopunny (which was holding a Lagging Tail, btw) did not take any recoil damage, as the opponent fainted. So it looks like there's nothing to worry about, provided that the simulator functions properly here.

 

[Hack_Guy]

Well so that's settled. Now we know that things can't nuke themselves with HJK after the opponent faints. But misses can still occur :P

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

This is much better than Icy Wind/Electroweb + Electro Ball:

Raichu (M) @ Focus Sash/Air Balloon
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Agility
- Electro Ball
- Surf
- ExtremeSpeed

Putting aside the fact that Raichu is PU (lol), his good speed tier paired with Agility could abuse Electro Ball pretty well, although his fragility makes running a Sash pretty necessary. I put Surf on there for Ground types, which would work well with the Balloon set, but I suggest just switching. x.x ESpeed is always a great move to have of course, but it unfortunately isn't STAB. Still seems like a formidable strat to me though.

And this is the best Sky Drop + Swords Dance set I could find:

Charizard (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sky Drop
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz

The first two slots used on the same move will cause much STAB nuking that's difficult to avoid on the opponent. Some pokes are too heavy to be lifted by Sky Drop, which are generally Steel or Ground types, so EQ is there to deal with that as well as the x4 weakness coverage on Rock. My guess at the best possible counter to this was Skarmory, who would not appreciate a STAB Flare Blitz from Zard, especially if it's boosted. EQ is honestly a perfect move for this set, as it deals with the SE Electric types on top of everything else. This set is a great start to your core, and I can't wait to test it out.

 

[Dark Mage Ewan]

And this is the best Sky Drop + Swords Dance set I could find:

Charizard (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sky Drop
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz

The first two slots used on the same move will cause much STAB nuking that's difficult to avoid on the opponent. Some pokes are too heavy to be lifted by Sky Drop, which are generally Steel or Ground types, so EQ is there to deal with that as well as the x4 weakness coverage on Rock. My guess at the best possible counter to this was Skarmory, who would not appreciate a STAB Flare Blitz from Zard, especially if it's boosted. EQ is honestly a perfect move for this set, as it deals with the SE Electric types on top of everything else. This set is a great start to your core, and I can't wait to test it out.

I know what you were trying to go for, having STAB on Sky Drop linked with SD, Fire STAB for steels and EQ for extra coverage but Regular Zard is so bad, X is better even without STAB on Sky Drop, and even Y is better if you have to have STAB on Sky Drop because of the extra power on Flare Blitz, also DD is better for increased chances to Sky Drop First.

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

I know what you were trying to go for, having STAB on Sky Drop linked with SD, Fire STAB for steels and EQ for extra coverage but Regular Zard is so bad, X is better even without STAB on Sky Drop, and even Y is better if you have to have STAB on Sky Drop because of the extra power on Flare Blitz, also DD is better for increased chances to Sky Drop First.

Well I'm generally opposed to using Megas, just because I'm weird like that, but this was the best combination for Sky Drop + Swords Dance possible. Of course I hadn't thought of using something like DD, which might widen the amount of pokes that can make this viable.

Here we are:

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sky Drop
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch/Dragon Claw
- Earthquake

This isn't as fast as Zard, but DD can take care of that. Fire Punch for Ice types (only use if you're boosted imo) and once again EQ for Electrics and Rocks. Sky Drop is still STAB too, and I add Lefties because of the free turns in the sky. Pretty good idea there Dark Mage Ewan . ^.^

 

[Akumeoy]

This is much better than Icy Wind/Electroweb + Electro Ball:

I've already addressed the question of Electro Ball -- there isn't really anything that can exploit it, with Icy Wind or Agility or whatever, that wouldn't prefer to run something else or just get outclassed by something more powerful.

And this is the best Sky Drop + Swords Dance set I could find:

It's already been explained why this is subpar; while your Dragonite set below is probably usable (though I can't really judge the opportunity cost this early), there's also a better user of SD+SD: Hawlucha.

Hawlucha @ Power Herb / Red Card
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sky Drop
- Low Kick
- Sky Attack / Stone Edge

Everything that's too heavy to Sky Drop takes Low Kick at 120BP. This is, as far as I can tell, pretty fantastic coverage -- especially if Hawlucha can manage to effectively boost up to +4/+2. Stone Edge lets you hit some of the stuff that Sky Drop and Low Kick can't handle (and Talonflame on the switch), while Sky Attack+Power Herb is an option to get a more reliable Unburden activation, but you miss out on a few targets like Dragonite and Zapdos, among others.

 

[readytolose]

I know what you were trying to go for, having STAB on Sky Drop linked with SD, Fire STAB for steels and EQ for extra coverage but Regular Zard is so bad, X is better even without STAB on Sky Drop, and even Y is better if you have to have STAB on Sky Drop because of the extra power on Flare Blitz, also DD is better for increased chances to Sky Drop First.

In their defense, with Sky Drop you can effectively get double the Leftovers recovery as normal, so there's that.

 

[Slayer95]

SMH I forgot the most important question:
How are Sketch and Mimic expected to work?

PS. Also Metronome/Assist/etc, when calling a linked move
PS2. Me First when the opponent has chosen a linked move?

 

[Hack_Guy]

SMH I forgot the most important question:
How are Sketch and Mimic expected to work?

PS. Also Metronome/Assist/etc, when calling a linked move
PS2. Me First when the opponent has chosen a linked move?

Sketch copies the last move used in battle. So unless smeargle moves first, it should copy the last move used in the link. Same goes for mimic

As for Me First it will use the move that is first in the link and not the link as a whole

 

[Slayer95]

Sketch copies the last move used in battle. So unless smeargle moves first, it should copy the last move used in the link. Same goes for mimic

As for Me First it will use the move that is first in the link and not the link as a whole

What if Sketch/Mimic itself is linked? Will the link get updated?

 

[Hack_Guy]

What if Sketch/Mimic itself is linked? Will the link get updated?

If that is the case then I'm pretty sure the link will get updated. And if sketch and mimic are in a link then it would probably create 2 of the same moves in a link.

Edit: tested sketch and mimic, and it seems that if sketch has already copied a move, mimic fails to copy it. So sketch/mimic links will only copy the move once

 

[Slayer95]

Should Leppa Berry be able to restore PP for the first move in a link?
Should Leppa Berry activate in the middle of the execution of two linked moves? Or any other berry?

 

[DoW]

Should Leppa Berry be able to restore PP for the first move in a link?
Should Leppa Berry activate in the middle of the execution of two linked moves? Or any other berry?

In pokemon mystery dungeon, I seem to remember linked moves coming apart if they ran out of pp. Would that still happen? And would they split before leppa berry kicked in?

 

[Hack_Guy]

A leppa berry would probably just restore the PP of the move with the least PP inside of the link

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

So if you used Assist and it chose a linked move would it use the entire linked move or just the selected one? I was thinking about a team of 5 pokes with just Assist and then Smeargle with V-create + Recycle and the they all have White Herbs..

lol joking but seriously could you lay out the mechanics of Assist in this meta for us?

 

[FlameUser64]

So if you used Assist and it chose a linked move would it use the entire linked move or just the selected one? I was thinking about a team of 5 pokes with just Assist and then Smeargle with V-create + Recycle and the they all have White Herbs..

lol joking but seriously could you lay out the mechanics of Assist in this meta for us?

That is beautiful lol.

 

[Slayer95]

If a link was broken, should Lunar Dance restore it?

 

[Hack_Guy]

If a link was broken, should Lunar Dance restore it?

Lunar dance restores the PP of all moves so yes the link should remain intact

So if you used Assist and it chose a linked move would it use the entire linked move or just the selected one? I was thinking about a team of 5 pokes with just Assist and then Smeargle with V-create + Recycle and the they all have White Herbs..

lol joking but seriously could you lay out the mechanics of Assist in this meta for us?

Assist will choose any one move randomly. It won't pick out links. Otherwise that smeargle team will be basically the best thing ever lol

 

[Ghoul King]

Lunar dance restores the PP of all moves so yes the link should remain intact

The question is: the link's been broken. Does restoring PP restore the link, or does it stay broken?

 

[Throbulator36]

The question is: the link's been broken. Does restoring PP restore the link, or does it stay broken?

he answered yes to that question

 

[Ghoul King]

No, he answered yes to a question that wasn't asked. Maybe he just framed his answer poorly, or maybe he misunderstood the question. It looks like the latter to me.

 

[Throbulator36]

No, he answered yes to a question that wasn't asked. Maybe he just framed his answer poorly, or maybe he misunderstood the question. It looks like the latter to me.

it was the former