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Little Cup Doubles Discussion

Discussion in 'Little Cup' started by Heysup, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,647
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    ______________________________________________________[​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction to Little Cup Doubles:

    Little Cup doubles, or LC 2v2, is simply a team of 6 LC-legal Pokemon with Double battle rules. The Double battle guide can be found here. Battles can be played on Pokemon Online or Netbattle Supremacy (Pokemon Online is better). There are a lot of effects that happen to various moves and Pokemon in 2v2 conditions. It is important to keep these changes in mind when building your team and battling.

    What Changes in Little Cup Doubles:

    Many of the major move changes effect Little Cup far more than they would effect Standard play because of LC's offensive nature. For example, a Rain boosted Surf from Horsea is powerful enough to OHKO two Pokemon in this metagame unlike in Standard play where there are far more effective walls and counters. Additionally, the effectiveness of stat-up users in Little Cup is severely lowered because of the fact that you need to take attacks from two Pokemon even if you KO one. For example, a Dragon Dance Dratini cannot just set up and sweep a team like it does so effectively in LC singles play because there is another Pokemon who isn't going to be OHKOed by Outrage that can quite possibly end Dratini's sweep.

    Pokemon like Anorith, Cranidos, and others have access to Rock Slide, hitting two Pokemon with the possibility of flinching. Elekid and Chinchou can let loose Discharge, though they need an Electric-immune partner to be effective since Discharge hits every other Pokemon on the field. Gligar and Diglett can abuse Earthquake with a floating partner as well.

    Protect is also quite useful because it allows you to stop Pokemon such as Croagunk's Fake Out and Gastly's Explosion. It also allows you to block your other Pokemon's Earthquake, Surf, Discharge, or Explosion.

    The purpose of this thread is to discuss the LC Doubles metagame. Please post things such as combos, observations, battle logs, and general metagame discussion. Go!

    While it's obvious that there will be some theorymon in this topic, please try to keep it to a minimum. Theorymon without sound logical reasoning will be deleted or possibly infracted.




  2. Towelie

    Towelie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    665
    This sounds really fun! How about something like this:

    Mantyke@Damp Rock
    -Rain Dance
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Hp Grass or Hp Electric

    with

    Croagunk@Life Orb
    Fake out
    Vacuum Wave
    Sucker Punch
    filler (ice punch, dark pulse, payback, etc.)

    Croagunk sounds like a complete bitch to kill.
    Fake out the threatening poke while you RD with Mantyke. Fire off boosted surfs while Croagunk recovers 25 % hp from surf and some from rain as well.
  3. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,093
    HEYSUP DON'T USE MY TEAM V. YOUR TEAM X(

    Ok anyways, doubles is a fun metagame. Stuff like Boomlax and Explosion is all over the walls. TR is ok due to Cubone having EQ, but rain is really killer.

    Will write more on Sunday.

    EDIT: Ok here's more.

    Trick Room is hard to play against. Strong stuff like Blizzard Porygon and Earthquake Cubone kill a lot of stuff. Personally I have never had severe problems with TR due to carrying Selfdestruct Munchlax + Protect everywhere, so I usually can bring it in after a KO and kill two pokemon. I also have some priority, so that helps too.

    Rain is extremly difficult to play against. Luckily I carry two Electric types with Discharge (again with Protect everywhere) and they usually can KO... if the mon survives. This is why Rain- I think- is the best play style at the moment. I'm 20-9, and three of my nine losses have come against rain. Munchlax can explode to stall some rain and kill two sweepers, but as ete showed in his team, cross chop croagunk just kills that plan. (I am 3-2 against eric but I was 1-2, and my win came due to the aforemented Cross Chop missing.)

    Perhaps I will post a log or two later.

    EDIT2: All right, I'll have to admit hail is a threat too. I just lost to Ice-eyes in a gg. Here's the log:

    Code:
    [COLOR=black]Battle between [LC Doubles] iss and Ice-eyes[LC Doubles] started![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Tier: LittleCup[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Variation: +38, -41[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Rule: Rated[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Rule: Sleep Clause[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Rule: Freeze Clause[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Rule: Evasion Clause[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Rule: OHKO Clause[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Rule: Item Clause[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Rule: Species Clause[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles] sent out Croagunk![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss sent out Diglett![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles] sent out Remoraid![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss sent out Elekid![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss: gl[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]DeeEff is watching the battle.[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Start of turn 1[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett used Protect![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Croagunk used Fake Out![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Remoraid used Water Spout![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett protected itself![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Elekid lost 18 HP! (94% of its health)[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Elekid used Discharge![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Remoraid lost 100% of its health![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Remoraid fainted![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett protected itself![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Croagunk lost 68% of its health![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Croagunk is paralyzed! It may be unable to move![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Elekid fainted![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles] sent out Snover![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss sent out Gastly![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Start of turn 2[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly used Protect![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover used Ice Shard![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett lost 17 HP! (94% of its health)[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett hung on using its focus sash![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Croagunk used Sucker Punch![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Diglett used Rock Slide![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover ate its Oran Berry![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover restored a some HP![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover lost 58% of its health![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's not very effective...[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]A critical hit![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Croagunk lost 31% of its health![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Croagunk fainted![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Hail continues to fall![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett is buffeted by the hail![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Diglett fainted![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly is buffeted by the hail![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles] sent out Gastly![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss sent out Munchlax![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Start of turn 3[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover used Protect![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Gastly used Sucker Punch![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly lost 14 HP! (70% of its health)[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Gastly used Shadow Ball![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Gastly lost 100% of its health![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Gastly fainted![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Munchlax used Fire Punch![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Hail continues to fall![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly is buffeted by the hail![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Munchlax is buffeted by the hail![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]devastator is watching the battle.[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles] sent out Cranidos![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Cranidos has Mold Breaker![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Start of turn 4[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly used Protect![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Cranidos used Rock Slide![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly protected itself![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Munchlax lost 15 HP! (46% of its health)[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover used Seed Bomb![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Munchlax lost 12 HP! (37% of its health)[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Munchlax flinched![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Hail continues to fall![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly is buffeted by the hail![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Cranidos is buffeted by the hail![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Munchlax is buffeted by the hail![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]DeeEff stopped watching the battle.[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss: fff[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]devastator stopped watching the battle.[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Start of turn 5[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover used Ice Shard![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Munchlax lost 1 HP! (3% of its health)[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Munchlax fainted![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Gastly used Sludge Bomb![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover lost 83% of its health![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Snover fainted![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Cranidos used Rock Slide![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly lost 3 HP! (15% of its health)[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Gastly fainted![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Hail continues to fall![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Cranidos is buffeted by the hail![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss sent out Chinchou![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles] sent out Munchlax![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss sent out Kabuto![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Start of turn 6[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Cranidos used Rock Slide![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Chinchou lost 13 HP! (48% of its health)[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Kabuto lost 9 HP! (45% of its health)[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Kabuto used Waterfall![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Munchlax lost 43% of its health![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Chinchou used Surf![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Kabuto lost 9 HP! (45% of its health)[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Cranidos lost 91% of its health![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Cranidos fainted![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Munchlax lost 30% of its health![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]The foe's Munchlax used Earthquake![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Kabuto lost 2 HP! (10% of its health)[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Kabuto fainted![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Chinchou lost 14 HP! (51% of its health)[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Chinchou fainted![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles] won the battle![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles]: GG. [Sorry if it wasn't a good game].[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss: hi[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black]Ice-eyes[LC Doubles]: gg[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LC Doubles] iss: gg[/COLOR]
    
    The flinch on turn 5 pretty much insured my loss, but it was a gg anyways.

    I will post my team after fifty battles. So far, I have played 29.
  4. coolking49

    coolking49

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,818
    Only 4 LC pokemon learn follow me, and of them togepi is the bulkiest. Why not something like:

    togepi @ focus sash/oran berry
    -follow me
    -encore
    -safe gaurd / heal bell
    -Ancient power?/other attacking move

    along with something like SD armaldo with rockslide, or some other stat booster which can hit both pokemon. Of course, priority might annoy you a bit, but Maybe follow me riolu can fix that?
  5. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    I did a bit of testing(not much, just a little) with 2 lead sets, and both do fairly well IMO.

    Meowth@ Focus Sash
    236 Atk / 196 Spe
    Jolly
    Technician
    -Fake Out
    -Hypnosis
    -Return
    -Bite

    First half of the lead set. Meowth uses Fake Out to stop the the opponent's Pokemon which sets up a global effect(which is actually pretty good in LC), unless its a Ghost-type(obviously, it will be setting up TR), in which case it uses Fake Out on the other Pokemon(likely something like a Fake Out Makuhita), and Houndour Dark Pulses the Ghost-type for a chance of fliching. If it does flinch, excellent, You can gain a lot of momentum. Hwoever, if it doesn't flinch, Meoth and Houndour pretty much lose to the Ghost-type and the Fake Out user.

    +

    Houndour@ Choice Scarf
    36 Def / 236 Spe / 200 SpA
    Modest
    Flash Fire/Early Bird(personal choice)
    -Fire Blast
    -Dark Pulse
    -HP Ground
    -Heat Wave

    The second half of the non-setup lead pair. Houndour is running a Choice Scarf, yes, it is doubles, YES. While it may seem unadvisable to run a Choice Scarf in doubles, it is usable as a lead in Little Cup, since its job is to join Meowth and stop setup. Meowth cannot flinch Ghost-types, and here, Houndour enters, with STAB Dark Pulse off a base 18 Special Attack, with a handy flinch chance, which has a chance of stopping Makuhita + TR Ghosts combos. Houndour relies on raw power to destroy the opponent's leads, which is why it is Modest. Also, Flash Fire is an option to discourage opposing lead Houndour from using Heat Wave, and also as a useful immunity for Houndour to come in later if it survives the lead face-off.


    The gist of the strategy is use Meowth to Fake Out the more dangerous Pokemon among your opponent's leads, while using Houndour for netting a quick KO. This provides offensive momentum, which is very important in LC doubles. Unlike normal doubles, defensive EVs are a waste in LC, since everything will just keel over and die to 2-3 moves, and get OHKO'd by powerful moves.

    A lead pair for TR, which has a 70% chance of beating the above leads:-

    Makuhita@ Flame Orb/Toxic Orb(personal preference)
    180 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def
    Brave
    0 Spe IV
    Guts
    -Fake Out
    -Close Combat/Cross Chop
    -Rock Slide
    -Bullet Punch

    Makuhita hits a minimum speed stat of 6, which along with access to Fake Out and a great Attack and HP stat allows it be a great Trick Room Fake Out lead. This does pretty well against Rain Dance teams, since they usually use Swift Swim, which is turned against them by Trick Room. After TR is up, Makuhita really lays the hurt down with its STAB fighting move of choice, Rock Slide and priority Bullet Punch, coming off effectively a massive 24 Attack stat after Guts activation. Makuhita can easily force out a priority abuser, abd then switch to an appropriate check on the Fake Out, or if TR is active, can even attempt a powerful Bullet Punch.

    +

    Shuppet@ Focus Sash
    4 HP / 236 Atk / 252 SpA / 12 SpD(go go go LC spreads)
    Quiet
    0 Spe IV
    Insomnia
    -Trick Room
    -Shadow Ball
    -Thunderbolt
    -Sucker Punch

    TR teams require 2 or 3 priority abusers, as a backup plan in case of TR running out while facing a high-speed opponent. Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt provide excellent coverage, and HP Fighting isn't really necessary in doubles, due to having a partner to pick up the slack. Sucker Punch is the priority attack for Shuppet, which can be used later for stopping Gastly sweeps.

    EDIT: Fake Out IMO is the only way to ensure setup. Follow Me is terrible in such a heavily-offense based metagame, you'll probably fall to stuff like Heat Wave/ other spread moves or whatever you call them.

    EDIT2: Heysup and I had some nice LC doubles battles(majority were won by me, after a bunch of funny/haxy(opinion differs) stuff, like confusion, freeze hax, Heysup forgetting to change the happiness of his Aipom leading to it doing 4% to my Cubone(wish I saved it, that was a fun match), and me winning a speed tie leading to me wiping out both his leads on turn 1(I have this log, if anybody is interested)).

    No comments, since this isn't a warstory. Don't worry, this is only 9 turns long, and has quite a bit of silly/funny stuff

    Code:
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Battle between Heysup [LC Doubles] and HFB started![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Rule: [/COLOR]Unrated
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Rule: [/COLOR]Evasion Clause
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Rule: [/COLOR]OHKO Clause
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Rule: [/COLOR]Species Clause
     
    HFB sent out Meowth!
    Heysup [LC Doubles] sent out Phanpy!
    HFB sent out Houndour!
    Heysup [LC Doubles] sent out Gastly!
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 1[/COLOR]
    HFB called Houndour back!
    HFB sent out Drifloon!
     
    The foe's Phanpy used [COLOR=#a8a878]Protect[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Phanpy protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    Meowth used [COLOR=#a8a878]Fake Out[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Phanpy protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    The foe's Gastly used [COLOR=#a8a878]Explosion[/COLOR]!
    Meowth lost 19 HP! (95% of its health)
    Meowth hung on using its focus sash!
    It had no effect!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Phanpy protected itself![/COLOR]
    The foe's Gastly fainted!
     
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]thats pretty lame...
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]hah hah
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]lol
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]you changed just for me
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]Yeah
    Heysup [LC Doubles] sent out Gligar!
     
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]Desperate times call for desperate measures
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 2[/COLOR]
    The foe's Phanpy used [COLOR=#98d8d8]Ice Shard[/COLOR]!
    Meowth lost 1 HP! (5% of its health)
    Meowth fainted!
     
    The foe's Gligar used [COLOR=#b8a038]Rock Slide[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#0000ff]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    Drifloon lost 26 HP! (100% of its health)
    Drifloon fainted!
     
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]Time for the Carnage Squad
    HFB sent out Staryu!
     
    HFB sent out Machop!
     
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]ANy pleasant memories of these 2?
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]-____-
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 3[/COLOR]
    The foe's Gligar used [COLOR=#a8a878]Protect[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Gligar protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    The foe's Phanpy used [COLOR=#a8a878]Protect[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Phanpy protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    Machop used [COLOR=#c03028]DynamicPunch[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Phanpy protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    Staryu used [COLOR=#98d8d8]Ice Beam[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Gligar protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]This shoudl give a good match
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 4[/COLOR]
    Heysup [LC Doubles] called Gligar back!
    Heysup [LC Doubles] sent out Munchlax!
     
    Machop used [COLOR=#c03028]DynamicPunch[/COLOR]!
    The foe's Phanpy lost 48% of its health!
    [COLOR=#705898]The foe's Phanpy became confused![/COLOR]
     
    Staryu used [COLOR=#98d8d8]Ice Beam[/COLOR]!
    The foe's Munchlax lost 30% of its health!
     
    [COLOR=#705898]The foe's Phanpy is confused![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#705898]It hurt itself in its confusion![/COLOR]
    The foe's Phanpy ate its Oran Berry!
    The foe's Phanpy restored a some HP!
    The foe's Phanpy lost 11% of its health!
     
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]damn that confusion
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]lol
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]But 50% is a big chance
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]it's never failed
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]lol
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 5[/COLOR]
    The foe's Munchlax used [COLOR=#a8a878]Protect[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Munchlax protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    Machop used [COLOR=#c03028]DynamicPunch[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Munchlax protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    Staryu used [COLOR=#98d8d8]Ice Beam[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#0000ff]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    The foe's Phanpy lost 77% of its health!
    The foe's Phanpy fainted!
     
    Heysup [LC Doubles] sent out Croagunk!
     
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]trying to stall my PP?
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 6[/COLOR]
    The foe's Croagunk used [COLOR=#a8a878]Fake Out[/COLOR]!
    Machop lost 6 HP! (26% of its health)
     
    Machop flinched!
     
    Staryu used [COLOR=#f8d030]Thunderbolt[/COLOR]!
    The foe's Croagunk lost 89% of its health!
     
    The foe's Munchlax used [COLOR=#a8a878]Frustration[/COLOR]!
    Machop lost 17 HP! (73% of its health)
    Machop fainted!
     
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]Carnage squad member fainted
    HFB sent out Houndour!
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 7[/COLOR]
    The foe's Croagunk used [COLOR=#c03028]Vacuum Wave[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#0000ff]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    Houndour lost 18 HP! (85% of its health)
    The foe's Croagunk fainted!
     
    Houndour used [COLOR=#f08030]Fire Blast[/COLOR]!
    The foe's Munchlax ate its Oran Berry!
    The foe's Munchlax restored a some HP!
    The foe's Munchlax lost 50% of its health!
     
    Staryu used [COLOR=#f8d030]Thunderbolt[/COLOR]!
    The foe's Munchlax lost 26% of its health!
     
    The foe's Munchlax used [COLOR=#a8a878]Frustration[/COLOR]!
    Staryu lost 15 HP! (78% of its health)
    Staryu fainted!
     
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]All CS members KO'd
    HFB sent out Elekid!
     
    Heysup [LC Doubles] sent out Gligar!
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 8[/COLOR]
    The foe's Munchlax used [COLOR=#a8a878]Protect[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#a8a878]The foe's Munchlax protected itself![/COLOR]
     
    The foe's Gligar used [COLOR=#a8a878]Quick Attack[/COLOR]!
    Houndour lost 3 HP! (14% of its health)
    Houndour fainted!
     
    Elekid used [COLOR=#98d8d8]Ice Punch[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#0000ff]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    The foe's Gligar lost 82% of its health!
    The foe's Gligar fainted!
     
    Heysup [LC Doubles] sent out Mantyke!
     
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]gg
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Start of turn 9[/COLOR]
    Elekid used [COLOR=#c03028]Cross Chop[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#0000ff]It's super effective![/COLOR]
    The foe's Munchlax lost 26% of its health!
    The foe's Munchlax fainted!
     
    The foe's Mantyke used [COLOR=#6890f0]Surf[/COLOR]!
    [COLOR=#ff0000]A critical hit![/COLOR]
    Elekid lost 17 HP! (89% of its health)
    Elekid fainted!
     
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Heysup [LC Doubles] won the battle![/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]Stop picking on noobs.
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]gg
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]gg
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]heysup finally wins
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]lol
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]and its the one good match
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]This is good for the thread
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]Yeah
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]funny
    [COLOR=#008000]HFB: [/COLOR]I'll post it
    [COLOR=#5811b1]Heysup [LC Doubles]: [/COLOR]ok cool
    
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I've been having fun with a quick rain team, with these as the main players:


    Mantyke (M) @ Oran Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 236 HP / 40 Spd / 232 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Surf
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Flying]



    Horsea (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 200 Spd / 200 SAtk / 76 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Electric]



    Paras (M) @ Oran Berry
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 236 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Bug Bite
    - Protect
    - Seed Bomb



    Croagunk (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 212 HP / 188 Atk / 36 Def / 36 Spd / 36 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Fake Out
    - Sucker Punch
    - Rain Dance
    - Cross Chop

    Two powerful Swift Swim Surfers and two Pokemon that actually benefit from being hit by Surf. Seemed like the fastest team to put together since it is pretty mucn layed out for you, and works well against most teams. Once rain goes up, it is very very hard to stop.

    Been meaning to play with Trick Room and EQ teams, and some explosions. There are a lot of protect users around though, so most stratergies can be fairly easily disrupted.
  7. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

    Joined:
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    Okay so I've decided to get involved with this as well, and for my first ever team I though of just abusing Hail + Blizzards, since 120 BP + multi hit is pretty awesome. I've been using the following lead combo-

    Snover (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 100 Atk / 196 Spd / 184 SAtk
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Blizzard
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Wood Hammer
    Smoochum (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Forewarn
    EVs: 236 Spd / 240 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Fake Out
    - Protect
    - Hidden Power [Ground]


    Yes Smoochum. Anyways, Snover is here to start the hail, and spam Blizzard and shit. Wood Hammer is later on in the match to kill off Munchlax and the like. Smoochum is very strong actually, provided i predict the Fake Outs and FO the right shit, it can pose a threat to the enemy with STAB Blizzard of what, 19 SpA? HP Ground is for fire types, btw, and Ice + Ground together is resisted by only Bronzor.
  8. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    I would assume Black Buddha has unpleasant memories of using that lead against my TR team.

    TR is probably one of the few "anti-metagame"effects, since while everybody is rushing to pour EVs into Speed, you can use the likes of Max HP Makuhita, Duskull etc. to set up TR turn one and get rolling. I think I lost to that quick Rain team of ete, but that doesn't count since this LC, and Espeonns are allowed :P(kidding, no offense).

    I'll post my TR team, since its been effective regardless fo being revealed, and the fact that I'm going to revamp it soon, making it useless. This is also partially an RMT, so I'd appreciate suggestions for it.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Shuppet@ Focus Sash
    4 HP / 236 Atk / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
    Quiet
    0 Spe IV
    Insomnia
    -Trick Room
    -Shadow Ball
    -Thunderbolt
    -Sucker Punch

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Makuhita@ Flame Orb
    180 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def
    Brave
    0 Spe IV
    Guts
    -Fake Out
    -Close Combat(Since Makuhita will die fast anyway)
    -Rock Slide
    -Bullet Punch

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Slowpoke@ Oran Berry(Wish Berry Juice wasn't banned *shot*)
    196 HP / 196 SpA / 116 SpD
    Quiet
    0 Spe IV
    Own Tempo
    -Trick Room
    -Brine(Since there's no better Water-type move to use, as Surf is detrimental to my team)
    -Fire Blast
    -Ice Beam

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Porygon@ Life Orb
    76 HP / 196 Atk / 236 SpA
    Brave
    0 Spe IV
    Download
    -Return
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Shadow Ball

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Cubone@ Thick Club
    196 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def
    Brave
    0 Spe IV
    Lightningrod(handy when paired up with Slowpoke)
    -Bonemerang(EQ hurts my team, and no better substitute could be found for Cubone)
    -Rock Slide
    -Fire Punch
    -Return

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Duskull@ Oran Berry(can somebody frikkin'n unban Berry Juice?*shot*)
    196 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpA / 36 SpD(Go go go LC spreads)
    Relaxed
    0 Spe IV
    Levitate
    -Trick Room
    -Will-O-Wisp(p. much filler)
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Ice Beam

    There you go, a basic standard Trick Room team(which I'm retiring, and publicizing so others can try it out). Use it if you want, its pretty good as far as I have seen.
  9. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I see people using my Shuppet set... 0v0 This makes me happy. Makes sense that TR Shuppet functions best in doubles...

    Okay, I have no experience at all in competetive doubles of anything, but it always seemed like fun... so here goes. (BTW, does Shoddy run doubles? o___o I wasn't aware that it did.) I think I better just mostly lurk....

    It seems like Rain and TR are gonna be the best weather effects here... (SS and Hail don't gain as many benefits in doubls like those two do.) Rain sweepers + Croagunk and Paras to soak up Surf sounds pretty cool.
  10. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Rain is huge - it's hard enough to check in Singles but when two Rain sweepers are hitting both your pokes with Surf? Wow. Croagunk is amazing - like a VGC Hitmontop, only it counters the best strategy.

    Is Snover + Abra the equivalent of VGC's sort-of-anti-meta-and-amazingly-broken Mewtwo/Abomasnow?

    Scarf Remoraid + Croagunk is win.
  11. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    @Banryu: I have to say, your TR Shuppet is better in doubles than in singles. When paired up with the Makuhita set, IIRC, it will NEVER fail to set up TR, unless it flinches.

    Shoddy doesn't run douubles, Pokemon Online does.

    And Gunk is broken in doubles. Throw up a Rain Dance, and he will pretty much sweep your team.

    And you're right, Rain and TR are pretty much THE global effects to use(and I actually beat a few people with a lol Gravity team).

    @Ice-eyes: Agreed about Rain. It probably beats TR as the best global effect, but only by a little, since TR turns all the speed-related advantages of Rain into disadvantages.

    Well, I haven't tested the pairs you mentioned, but they sound good in theory.
  12. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I've had much more trouble with hail teams than TR/Rain so far, damn Snover and 100% accurate blizzards hitting both Pokemon.. Stops rain, able to use some slow sweepers and levitators to beat the most scary TR sweepers. Bronzor helps a lot (most hail sweepers can't touch it and screens give you a chance), but gets beaten down eventually.
  13. Sledge

    Sledge

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I have actually been having a fair amount of success with TR and Hail together. Snover is a relatively slow sweeper, so he does well in TR, so I can get a bunch of slow Pokemon (such as Porygon and Slowpoke) spamming blizzard while almost always going first.
  14. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    If anyone's on, I'd really like to test - I'm trying out a team based around countering opposing strategies while hitting incredibly hard, similar to Zerowing-style VGC teams.

    My current team is Croagunk/Scarf Remoraid/Snover/Munchlax/Gastly/Scarf Cranidos
  15. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    I'd like to play you Ice-eyes. I'll need to build a new team though.
  16. sbc

    sbc

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Anyone tried out Wynaut? Blocking two pokemon from switch then assploding seems quite useful.
  17. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Smart opponents double-team Wynaut or leave it alone. Less switching happens in doubles anyway.
  18. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Against Wynaut, youc an just go for the KO with both, or ignore it and pick off the other. In both cases, there is a tiny problem.If you double target Wynaut, free turn to the other Pokemon. If you double target its partner, Encore is a big risk.
  19. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    My most successful lead combo so far has been Houndour + Voltorb.

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Houndour (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 196 Atk / 76 Spd / 196 SAtk
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Heat Wave
    - Dark Pulse
    - Protect
    - Sucker Punch
    Voltorb @ Life Orb
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 116 Atk / 40 Def / 196 Spd / 156 SAtk
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Explosion
    - Protect
    - Thunderbolt
    - Sucker Punch


    Basically most matches allow me to simply Protect + Explosion and start 5-4. If the opponent has Protect or Ghosts, I can simply wait it out and easily 2HKO any Pokemon because Voltorb and Houndour both can use Sucker Punch to destroy any Pokemon that tries to attack. Dark Pulse deals with the opponent's ghosts which will eventually allow me to use Explosion, which always OHKOes things that do not resist it because of Life Orb. Life Orb is used over Focus Sash because it lets me do respectable damage and Voltorb is otherwise useless.
  20. Dubulous

    Dubulous I look just like Buddy Holly.
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    Wynaut is pretty ridiculous. Yeah you can just ignore it but then you get Encored and Disabled by his partner. If you double target it you give his partner a free turn. And you're stuck with whatever two guys you've got out there. It's still just as good as ever, even if there is less switching.
  21. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    *steals Heysup's team*

    Seriously though, that lead pair is really hard to play around and the STAB Electric move is nice vs. Rain.
  22. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Can't anybody steal the team I posted here?*shot*

    Its good for learning Trick Room*shot*

    *Shows Bulletproof Vest xD*
  23. Banryu

    Banryu

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    ete has a point about Hail teams being able to spam dual Blizzards... come to think of it, aren't a lot of Hail-team Pokemon really slow? A Hail-TR team could be pretty cool, especially since there are guys like Pory and Duskull who can both set up TR AND spam Blizzard. That'll be something I'll want to try... Maybe TR Shuppet (or Duskull, either way I guess?) + Snover as leads would work.

    If it makes you feel any better, I was planning to at some point.... I need to figure out WTF this Pokemon Online thing is first though. o___o;
  24. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    I think Hail is a nice auxiliary strategy - it's nice to be able to lead with Remoraid or something, then have the option to bring in Snover and start spamming.
  25. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Hail is good but running Snover almost makes it a liability. Snover absolutely sucks in doubles imo. Weaknesses are very easy to exploit in doubles, so I try to stay away from Pokemon like Gligar and Snover.

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