(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Zinnia is a massive bitch that causes the narrative to bend over backwards in a futile attempt to make her look good.

Also, Shauna is like 14-15 or something. None of the protagonists in any of the games have been 10 years old.
How does she cause the narrative bend over backwards? That's what I don't understand, I personally think that everything she did was plausible enough so would you mind enlightening me? ( Not the slighlest bit of sarcasm in this comment btw)

Also, that only makes it worse...
 
There's one thing, rather; a person, that REALLY annoys me in gen6 and that is none other than: Shauna

What's the point of her character other than being a goody-two-shoes who does not but goof around and be annoying? As amusing as the Firework Scene is ( "I've never watched fireworks alone with a boy before..." 15 secs later... "Here have this: Tm13 Protect" ಠ_ಠ ) she's a farcry from being a decent character.

Nothing infuriated me more than when Shauna won a medal for effectively "splitting up" Team Flare's peons by being a dumb witch. That wasn't even bravery, she did it because she is useless, likes getting in over her shoulders and the primary reason: she is mentally stilted ( actual 10 years old girls should be offended if they were compared to her).

Heck, even the games lamps shade at the fact that Shaunda has absolutely no reason for being there; she just is.
I can't hate Shauna... at least, not alone. The problem is she has to share the limelight with Trevor and Tierno. This, along with most of what little time they do get ending up being just to point out stuff you can probably figure out on your own in about 5 minutes, (if you were COMPLETELY new to Pokemon, tops) means they have next to nothing to really endear themselves to the player. It's kind of unfair to single Shauna out when Trevor and Tierno are both just as bad. (and dear god Tierno's face...)
 
Zinnia is just an arrogant kid who went off injuring innocent people and stealing other people's belongings. She also almost single-handedly caused the apocalypse with her method of dealing with things by sabotaging your efforts to save the world. Oh, and for bonus points, her plans blew up in her face when Rayquaza doesn't want to bond with her, requiring you to step in (otherwise, it's the freaking apocalypse). Then, after all this, we're supposed to like her or sympathize with her. For me, she crossed the Moral Event Horizon went she HELPED Team Aqua / Magma to resurrect Groudon/ Kyogre despite knowing this will endanger millions of lives. All so her plan could work and she has the world wrapped around her little finger. Entitled little kid.
 
See, there's the camp there. Zinnia is either just a character people are "ok" with or people hate. She can be pretty centralizing with you having to follow her around, her destroying what many think is the only hope for survival with no repercussions, and her being totally right about everything and seemingly knowing everything in the world. It's pretty obvious why people would see her as a Mary Sue character and hate her. Personally, I tuned her out and just imagine her as being a cute plot and info-dump device with good battle music.
 
I can't hate Shauna... at least, not alone. The problem is she has to share the limelight with Trevor and Tierno. This, along with most of what little time they do get ending up being just to point out stuff you can probably figure out on your own in about 5 minutes, (if you were COMPLETELY new to Pokemon, tops) means they have next to nothing to really endear themselves to the player. It's kind of unfair to single Shauna out when Trevor and Tierno are both just as bad. (and dear god Tierno's face...)
I dislike both of them as well, but I'm singling Shauna out because she gets more screentime than both Tierno and Trevor, hell she probably rivals Serena. No joke, just replay the game sometime and count how many times Shauna pops up and tags along with you for no reason at all other than occupying space.

If half the time spent with Shauna had been dedicated to Serena/Calem maybe they wouldn't be the blandest rivals we've had yet.

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Zinnia is just an arrogant kid who went off injuring innocent people and stealing other people's belongings. She also almost single-handedly caused the apocalypse with her method of dealing with things by sabotaging your efforts to save the world. Oh, and for bonus points, her plans blew up in her face when Rayquaza doesn't want to bond with her, requiring you to step in (otherwise, it's the freaking apocalypse). Then, after all this, we're supposed to like her or sympathize with her. For me, she crossed the Moral Event Horizon went she HELPED Team Aqua / Magma to resurrect Groudon/ Kyogre despite knowing this will endanger millions of lives. All so her plan could work and she has the world wrapped around her little finger. Entitled little kid.
But it sort of was for the greater good, wasn't it? I am of the feather that believes colateral damage is unavoidable sometimes so I'm ok with it. To each its own I guess?
 
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Zinnia is just an arrogant kid who went off injuring innocent people and stealing other people's belongings. She also almost single-handedly caused the apocalypse with her method of dealing with things by sabotaging your efforts to save the world. Oh, and for bonus points, her plans blew up in her face when Rayquaza doesn't want to bond with her, requiring you to step in (otherwise, it's the freaking apocalypse). Then, after all this, we're supposed to like her or sympathize with her. For me, she crossed the Moral Event Horizon went she HELPED Team Aqua / Magma to resurrect Groudon/ Kyogre despite knowing this will endanger millions of lives. All so her plan could work and she has the world wrapped around her little finger. Entitled little kid.
You make her sound awesome. I don't think she was that cool.
 
All this Shauna hate is giving me wrinkles on my face. Why hate Shauna when when there are three other companions/rivals that are more annoying. Honestly though Trevor, Tierno, and Shauna could easily have been compressed into one character. Filling the dex has always been a big part of the games so it's cool that there's a rival for it but other than that Trevor adds nothing. Shauna on the other hand added nothing to the game except for having one of the best personalities and being one of the best characters in the seriesso I would've liked to have seen her have a more functional role.

Also wasn't the biggest fan of Zinnia but that was more I didn't really like the Delta episode.
 
Honestly, I liked Shauna. She looked young (but there was enough shipping content between her and you to compete with Maersk) and her stupidly naive personality COULD have been SO much worse. She was trying to find her place in the world and it was nice for her to realize that she really cannot be the best at really anything but that doesn't mean she can't enjoy the journey and enjoy helping her friends when she can.
 
I didn't think they were that annoying, possibly because I already forgot them existing until reading this thread. I mean they are so bland and barely do anything in the game.
 
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Pikachu315111

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There's one thing, rather; a person, that REALLY annoys me in gen6 and that is none other than: Shauna

What's the point of her character other than being a goody-two-shoes who does not but goof around and be annoying? As amusing as the Firework Scene is ( "I've never watched fireworks alone with a boy before..." 15 secs later... "Here have this: Tm13 Protect" ಠ_ಠ ) she's a farcry from being a decent character.

Nothing infuriated me more than when Shauna won a medal for effectively "splitting up" Team Flare's peons by being a dumb witch. That wasn't even bravery, she did it because she is useless, likes getting in over her shoulders and the primary reason: she is mentally stilted ( actual 10 years old girls should be offended if they were compared to her).

Heck, even the games lamps shade at the fact that Shaunda has absolutely no reason for being there; she just is.
I actually kind of wanted a Pokemon Z because I had a messed up idea in my head. When Lysandre fired the Ultimate Weapon there was only four people around: him, Calem, Serena, and Shauna. Now after the blast destroyed the Ultimate Weapon and buried Lysandre (who I wanted to still be alive since he's now immortal but critically hurt so the four woman Flare Scientist turn him into a cyborg) the three protagonists escape but they still were affected by the Ultimate Weapon radiation. Now Calem and Serena both have Mega Rings soon after which absorbs most if not all the radiation so at most they have an slightly expanded life span. But Shauna? She's now immortal and in Z she would have come to realize that as well as the unfortunate implications that comes from this (seeing all her friends and family die (including her Pokemon), seeing the world change around her while she doesn't (she'll still age though which brings some body horror as was see AZ is TALL because he kept growing but that resulted in health problems... which there's no eventually relief for as they can't die)), how she can't live a normal life and might have to be always on the move, and other such topics I would have been interested in them exploring. There was an interesting story here though sadly even if there was a Z they probably wouldn't have done that, though it would have given them a chance to expand on Shuana's, Trevor's, and Tierno's character.

For me, the indisputable champion in this category is Zinnia.
Uggh. At least Shauna tried and did help even if it was because the story said so (opening the door and leading some Flare Admins away). Also out of all the friends it seemed like Shauna was the one most affected by their journey. She's the one who talks to the player about her retrospective experience. Plus let's not forget at the end of the game she has a GOODRA. And she gives you the Egg of the Starter she got, Serena/Calem doesn't do that (though they give you Absolite). She's actually one of the most developed of the friends... which tells you what little interest they had in the Gen VI friends.

But Zinnia? Let's list Zinnia's problems:
1. She almost caused the end of the world TWICE. First time by telling Maxie/Archie about a way to awaken Groudon/Kyogre and then by breaking the only backup plan they had to teleporting the meteor away. Luckily the player was there otherwise the planet would have dried up/flooded/impacted because Rayquaza wouldn't have been able to stop Groudon/Kyogre/the meteor.
2. When that failed she moved to plan 2 which involved getting Key Stones. She does this by being the biggest jerk as possible.
  • She beat up our friend/rival/possible love interest.
  • She would have beaten up Wally to get his Key Stone.
  • She mocks Steven for being the former Champion and not knowing the full details, but never tells him until they're forced to go with her plan.
  • As said she breaks the only backup plan there was to save the planet forcing everyone to follow her plan she's been vague about until then.
  • She knocks out the player so they wouldn't leave until it was time for summon Rayquaza.
And she did all this while being as vague and mysterious as possible when there was no reason for her not to be. She could have gone to Wallace, tell him what's happening, and Wallace would have gotten Steven's help to summon Rayquaza. They would have gone with her plan first if she just said anything, but instead she chose to wait until they came up with a possible plan just to destroy it to force them to only go with her plan. I can only assume she did this as she didn't want them to make a backup plan behind her back... even though she had NO IDEA her plan was work and was just working on assumption. Also how does she know about the alternate Hoenn? Like had she just said the meteor needs to be destroyed because if teleported that would just mean another planet would be in danger, possibly one which also has life. That would have been plausible, but NOPE, it's RSE Hoenn. The only character who should have any idea about alternate Hoenn is the player who can have a Pokemon from RSE. And even then how does she know that's where the meteor will be teleported to?
3. And on top of all that, the player is then expected to feel sorry for her. Feel sorry she lost someone and they keep it vague who this someone is to get as much sympathy as possible. Is Aster her sister, mother, friend, Pokemon, child? Aster is whoever you will give you sympathies to Zinnia for! We're expected to feel sorry even though up till now she had done NOTHING to make us feel this way for her (yes, you're so hurt about losing someone close to you that you don't care about beating up someone or messing with people while having fun doing so), to us this is last second development and any mention of Aster we would have assumed she was talking about her Whismur.
4. And in the end she gets away with all this. Her failing miserably is I guess considered enough punishment as she's now free to explore the world and find herself. Us and our rival being beat up? It was only a few bruises and moments of unconsciousness, no big deal.

It really feels like they were trying to recapture what they were able to do with Emma in XY. However they missed the point entirely and instead created a Mary Sue who only stomped all over the other characters who we did like.
 
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I think it's weird that people are more bothered by Zinnia, a teenager acting like a teenager, rather than Archie and Maxie who are old as shit yet complete idiots. Their goal makes zero sense to anyone with a middle school understanding of earth science.
 
I didn't mind Shauna but along with the terribly bland Tierno, Trevor and Callum/Serena, she didn't offer enough. If she was in any other game I think she would've been a great side character.

BW1 Bianca and Shauna were two pretty similar characters but I didn't really see anyone have problems with her. I think that probably has something to do with Cheren being a decent rival.
 
I think it's weird that people are more bothered by Zinnia, a teenager acting like a teenager, rather than Archie and Maxie who are old as shit yet complete idiots. Their goal makes zero sense to anyone with a middle school understanding of earth science.
The difference is probably that Archie and Maxie are presented as evil villains while Zinnia is presented as a heroic side-character... even though, to some players, she doesn't come across that way. People dislike Archie and Maxies' villainy but not their characterization, since they are presented as evil and are evil, making them delightfully despicable adversaries.
 
The difference is probably that Archie and Maxie are presented as evil villains while Zinnia is presented as a heroic side-character... even though, to some players, she doesn't come across that way. People dislike Archie and Maxies' villainy but not their characterization, since they are presented as evil and are evil, making them delightfully despicable adversaries.
I never saw Zinnia as a heroic/good character. She was almost an anti hero working to her own goals, which overlapped with the characters goal at one point. As stated above she did some pretty bad things including almost ending the world twice. Then again I don't think she needs to justify her actions any more than Archie and Maxie, she's just a fictional character after all. Then again she was kind of bland and lacked character outside of serving a purpose for the story which is why I think some people found her irritating, just about polar opposite to Shauna. Hopefully future side characters find more of a balance between story and personality.
 
The difference is probably that Archie and Maxie are presented as evil villains while Zinnia is presented as a heroic side-character... even though, to some players, she doesn't come across that way. People dislike Archie and Maxies' villainy but not their characterization, since they are presented as evil and are evil, making them delightfully despicable adversaries.
I don't think Zinnia was presented as a heroic side character at all. She's the only one who believes she's right. Her logic being faulty is more passable than Maxie and Archie. Aren't they both remorseful at the end of ORAS? They weren't portrayed as completely evil either. Just inept.
 
Archie / Maxie weren't evil at heart, because they tried to do what they thought was best for Pokemon / Humans, not because they wanted to be evil. Zinnia is also trying to do what she thinks is right, whether that makes her heroic or not is open to player interpretation.
 

Pikachu315111

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As everyone said, the reason people don't hate Maxie and Archie like they do Zinnia is because they're villains, I kind of expect them to do bad things. But then we come to another question: Maxie and Archie, despite being villains, are likable characters or at least you like them as villains. Why does Zinnia, a person who is trying to save the world, fail to be a likable character many but Maxie & Archie, leaders of the villain group who are a bit insane, are on the other side of the spectrum and liked by many? Let's break it down:

1. Serious Business: Never did I feel Maxie and Archie were messing around. They knew what they were doing all the time (though they weren't thinking of the full consequences of their actions) and once they did what they needed left. And as villains obviously they're not going to tell you what their plans our except if they want to justify themselves, want to give you a warning not to mess with them, or distract you long enough for their plan to be completed. And then once they realize their plan doomed the world they immediately got to helping fix it, providing the Pressure Suit needed to survive the the magma heat/water pressure in the Cave or Origin (and later came in handy when you flew into space to stop the meteor).
2. Interactions: Zinnia was one her own so she didn't really care for anyone except herself and Whismur. Yeah she was trying to save everyone but she treated most people like obstacles in her way than trying to get them to help her. Maxie and Archie ran an entire organization who had loyal members they also cared about. Looking at the admins: for Maxie we had Courtney who has a bit of an anti-social attitude, speaking as a robot would and remaining emotionless most of the time; however she looks up to Maxie and was the one most upset when their plans failed. Tabitha saw Maxie as a strong and intelligent leader (and being he considers himself one of the smarter members of Magma when Maxie steps down he'll become in charge of Team Magma). for Archie we have Matt who had his live saved by Archie and is now loyal to him; it's him who tries to continue Archie's plan in the Delta Episode. Shelly is an childhood friend of Archie's, having even met a Jirachi together. Finally when it comes to the player they treat us in different but similar ways. Maxie refers to the player as "child", seeing us as a nuisance but at the same time never felt like he was talking down to us. Archie is a bit more playful, calling the player "Scout" and shrugging off us trying to stop them as a mere annoyance. But in the end both ended up highly respecting the player, helping us where they can, and thanked us for stopping them and able to turn over a new leaf. Zinnia just leaves with a note from Aster saying "Thanks, bye".
3. Character Development: Maxie and Archie realized they almost ended the world and are now paying their and their team dues by turning them into an organization that helps. Even upon realizing they unleashed the apocalypse they started working with the player and Steven to fix it. When Courtney/Matt came back to Maxie/Archie to apologize for their actions in the Delta Episode they asked Courtney/Matt to forgive them as well as ask them and Tabitha/Shelly to help make a better Team Magma/Aqua. Zinnia, having almost ended the world TWICE (note after the first time she shrugged it off and went right to her second plan), is relieved of her wrongdoings and allowed to go find herself. Maxie and Archie are working to gain their forgiveness of not just themselves but all of their team.
4. Faults & Ambitions: Maxie is presented as being too logical while Archie as being too emotional, this leading them to wrong conclusions about the world and they decided it was up to them to "fix" it. They were both ambitious, wrong as they may be. Zinnia on the otherhand, despite having this great duty of saving everyone, acted better than everyone else as she ran around doing what she feels like until it was time to get down to business. Maxie and Archie cared about what they were doing and even realized they were going to hurt people/Pokemon in doing so but believed the ends justify the means; Zinnia didn't which I know was sort of the point of her character but she went about it the most jerkish way possible while Maxie & Archie showed strong leadership and did everything according to a plan.
 
Lol you're still comparing the behavior & maturity of adults to a teenager. Zinnia is abrasive and annoying with zero social skills because that's how people are at her age. Especially someone who grew up isolated, like kids who are homeschooled for example. I'm not a great fan of Zinnia's but just calling her a "bitch" is lazy criticism. She acts like a lot of people do in her age range. There is the logic in that. You're not supposed to like everything about her.

As for her getting away, is that so surprising? She's a pro at staying hidden.
 
Calling a female dog a bitch is accurate.

Calling Zinnia a bitch is a complete understatement.

She isn't a teenager as well, she strikes more of a pre "Christmas cake" vibe in her design, I think that was intentional for the Aster stuff. It failed miserably.
 

Pikachu315111

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Lol you're still comparing the behavior & maturity of adults to a teenager. Zinnia is abrasive and annoying with zero social skills because that's how people are at her age. Especially someone who grew up isolated, like kids who are homeschooled for example. I'm not a great fan of Zinnia's but just calling her a "bitch" is lazy criticism. She acts like a lot of people do in her age range. There is the logic in that. You're not supposed to like everything about her.

As for her getting away, is that so surprising? She's a pro at staying hidden.
Fine, let's for a moment disregard Zinnia's actions as "teenage" thinking. Sill:

1. We're expected to feel sorry for her. And you know what, if it was her expecting the player to feel sorry that would been fine, but no, the game itself tells you that you should feel sorry for her. At the end of the Delta Episode we get a vague backstory dump where she lost someone named Aster and she expects to meet them once completing her mission (aka she's planning on killing herself or letting herself die helping Rayquaza). Problem is this is just dumped onto us and throughout the Delta Episode she's been semi-antagonistic. Yeah, I'm sorry she lost someone dear to her, but she injured and mocked my friends and put everyone at risk, I'm not going to forgive her for her reckless behavior.
2. She gets away with all the wrongdoings she did. Oh, yeah, she finds out her plan failed and now the entire planet is doomed... BUT luckily the player is here to bail her out so it's all good. Her only punishment was a moment of realizing she doomed the world. I don't recall if she returned was the one that returned everyone's Key Stones or not, but still if she did I doubt she feels sorry for knocking out our rival or insulting Steven. And you know, this would be fine if maybe it was Steven letting her off the hook, but its her grandmother so it feels like she's telling her to flee the region as much as going on a spirit quest.
3. Unless you're a "f*** the world" teenager, I don't know who would think that in order to do what I need to save the world... I'll put the world at risk! Why didn't Zinnia start with the Key Stone plan? Wouldn't have stealing the Key Stones been WAY easier and safer than telling a villain group about a way to summon a beast that'll end the world? I have to think there was also other ways to maybe try and get Rayquaza's attention, because if you're trying to save the world no one, be them child, teenager, or adult, would think doing something else that'll also put the world in danger is a good plan unless it was the only plan left.

But let's go back to Zinnia's behavior. Yes, she's a teenager, but she was also specifically trained to be a Successor, a huge responsibility. She knows the world is at risk and had little time to mess around. Yet she does, she doesn't do the easy thing like tell those who could possibly help her what's up, she purposely makes things hard and wastes time. But she goes above just being a jerk when she destroys the Cable Link and almost takes delight in doing so! Like I said, unless you're a "f*** the world" teenager that goes above anything a normal person would do, even a teenager. I would more imagine if she was suppose to be brash she would scold Steven and the scientist for being reckless rather than teasing them.

You know, considering Zinnia was planning on dying I think she just didn't care. She at least knew she had to save the world but the way she did it? "Pssh, whatever, I'll hurt, steal, and mock whoever because in a few hours I'll be dead so don't got to worry about the consequences". Aster's death really put her in a depression that drove her to become a sociopath, a type of person who's hard to relate to (unless you yourself are a sociopath).
 
1) I have no idea why you keep using the fact that she got away without any repercussions as a fault in her character. That would be a fault in the plot? Half of the criticisms of her character seem to actually be criticisms of the plot.

2) You're playing a video game where 10 year olds are entrusted to save the world and no parents are ever charged with child endangerment laws. Maybe chill a bit on intellectuallizing something you aren't supposed to overthink anyway.
 

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