1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Live And Learn

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Thepain, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. Thepain

    Thepain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    42
    LiveAndLearn


    Thanks to the recent banning of Deoxys-S, I have been able to return to my old favoured playstyle of HO, knowing that im not going to run into other similar teams every other game. When people finally discovered that Deoxys-S could use screens and hazards, HO became rediculously popular, and so it wasn't fun to play anymore, this lead me to begin playing stall, which was fun while it lasted, with limited success with just one collaborative team I made with my friend Makaveli3k. Once again he is here as he was a part in building this team too, my first HO team returning from stall, that quickly managed to peak at #269, possibly the highest I have achieved on Smogon University. This is untill I hit a wall, a wall of hax, consisting of Fire Blast and Focus Miss, Paraflinchrachi, Crits and such. Although now is the time to close this introduction, and onto the Team Building Process, enjoy!

    Blue: Thepain (Me)
    Red: Makaveli3k




    TeamBuildingProcess



    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    We began with Latios as our dual screener, a little bit of an unusual choice however Latios does his job, and he does it well, without sacrificing much power from the team. He has nice bulk and resistances allowing him to set up against most foes, whils also possessing Memento, so if he is short on health and it isn't worth the switch, I can hit Memento, get a free switch, and force the now -2 Atk -2 SpAtk foe to switch, essentially getting a free turn.

    Latios was the next option for us after the Deoxys ban, and the fact that Pain hated Deoxys made him love it even more. Dual screens are the most important of this team imo.



    -=-=-=-



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Next the team needed to be able to abuse screens and Memento provided by Latios, to fill this slot I chose two very underrated pokemon suggested by Maka, Salamence and Lucario. This pair synergise well with each other, both offensively and defensively, and Salamence and Lucario have Dragon Dance and Swords Dance respectively in there arsenal. It seems all offensive teams I have made recently have been Lucario + 2 Dragons :L.


    Nothing really else to say here apart from that Salamence rocks :P Dragonite can suck it ;P.



    -=-=-=-



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    I felt this team was now lacking special offense, so who better than Gengar to fill this spot. The Sub Disable set seems like it wouldn't keep enough momentum in the team so Gengars beloved set isn't an option here, instead I decided to go with a Mystic Gengar, giving me extra coverage with HP Fire and not having to rely on Mence's Fire Blast to hit things like Ferrothorn. Gengar also allows me to lure and KO Scizor whom would cause trouble to this team with Bullet Punch.


    Like most of Pains quirky suggestions I felt sceptical at first, however I was wrong this time and Gengar has been effective. He provides the special support needed in the team and a way to help handle Scizor.



    -=-=-=-


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Lastly, I felt this team had a couple of major threats upto now, namingly Gengar, Dragonite, and sometimes Starmie. To help patch up the team, firstly I added SpDefensive Jirachi, He can wall Gengar and Starmie provided it isn't under rain, and can lay down rocks to break Dragonites Multiscale. He provides the team with a little defensive pivot to fall back on when needed, whilst also being able to support my team with Wish passing, and Body Slam paralysis support, whilst still being capable of maintaining momentum with U-Turn. The last pokemon I decided to add was Weavile, who is invaluble to this team to say the least. Weavile can outspeed and Pursuit trap Gengar and Starmie, while also being able to take advantage of Jirachi's rocks to KO Nite after hazard damage with Ice Shard. Weavile also benifits from the coverage of Low Kick, being able to outspeed and KO many other threats such s Blissey, Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Band Terrakion, Heatran and so on. This combo pieced the team together perfectly, so it was time to put it into practice.

    Weavile was added to handle fast pokes that gave this team trouble, such as Starmie, while also giving the team a pursuit trapper. Weavile does its job quite effectively.


    -=-=-=-



    (18:19:58) *** Your rank in Standard OU is 269/46736 [1276 points / 42 battles]!


    Like I said earlier, this team achieved an nice peak of 269, or at least it is pretty good to me considering im not that good of a player in my opinion. This team and return to offense has really turned things around and now I hope to break into double figures, however to manage that this team needs some changes, so without further ado, heres the team in depth.






    InDepth



    [​IMG]

    Latios (M) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Memento
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect


    Dual Screens Latios has a great niche as a screener, mainly in his ability to use Memento, but also thats to his natural bulk and typing. The best part of him is that most people expect an offensive set, so whenever it switches in, most people assume that I have an attack to hit it with, thus resulting in a free screen as they switch, but of course, this isnt always the case, and it makes little difference either way. Latios is a very reliable screener being able to set them up at any point in the match, thanks to wish support from Jirachi. Latios manages to set up screens fast too which can be vital to survive hits, Draco Meteor is there mainly to provide him with the ability to both bluff an offensive set, and to deal a chunk of damage before he switches/Memento's. Memento can be really usefull, as it can cripple an offensive opponent, giving it -2 Atk and -2 SpAtk, giving me a free switch, and then forcing my opponent to switch, allowing me to get a free set up with another pokemon. Unfortunately due to the amount of stall and defensive play, Memento is rarely being used, however when it is used, it has almost always resulted in a sweep. Despite this I have been considering Latias over Latios just for the extra bulk, if the lack of access to Memento doesn't have too big of an impact.


    I suggested a dual screen Latios to Pain a long time ago in one of his old HO teams and it worked wonders. This set is hardly seen any more yet it is effective. Dual Screens are the main crux of this set, allowing the team to set up, while Draco Meteor is just a hard STAB to do some damage to opposing pokemon. Memento is there after Latios has done his job, to effectively allow a free switch in. Since the neutering of Deoxys, Latios is the next best thing to us.


    -=-=-=-



    [​IMG]

    Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Focus Blast


    Mystic Gengar, a set I had never heard of untill SkyNet spoke to me about it, and I immediately fell in love with it due to my passionate hatred of Rotom-W/Scizor cores. Gengar can still work as a typical special attacker dealing large sums of damage with LO Shadow Ball and Focus Blast, however he also lures in Scizor. When he does, protect is there to scout out his attack, if its Bullet Punch, im not trapped so I can switch into an appropriate counter, if its U-Turn or Pursuit, I can hit it with HP Fire knowing I can outspeed and ensure a KO on standard sets thanks to LO. Protect can also allow him to scout choice users if needed, although he can't use it to abuse lefties recovery as the LO power boost is essential to ensure Scizor gets KOed by HP Fire.


    At first I thought a Sub Disable Gengar should go here, but then I was introduced to the mystic Gengar. It is actually useful in stopping Scizor if played right, stopping the annoying Rotom and Scizor cores. The moves provide excellent coverage, and LO provide the extra power needed. However sometimes it can be problematic with less speed due to Hidden power fire, as Gengar is outsped and KO'ed.


    -=-=-=-



    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Stealth Rock
    - Body Slam
    - U-turn


    I was hesitant to add a supportive Specially Defensive Jirachi to an offensive team at first, however I stuck with it and it definately proved worthwhile. Stealth Rocks play a huge part in this team, helping me KO, and mainly breaking Dnites Multiscale, and Wish allows me to compensate for the LO recoil on the rest of my team (aside Latios). Body Slam is simply to allow Jirachi to deal some form of damage, and also provide my team with paralysis support. My last slot was filled by U-Turn, mainly to help maintain offensive momentum, something I need to ensure is kept in my favour throughout the entire game. Putting pressure on the opponent is vital, and that shouldn't be stopped just because im using a supporting mon.


    Jirachi was Pain's Idea, This team is not full HO, as Rachi is more of the support type. He provides the much needed wish support to the team. I was initially against using Jirachi as I felt it did not go with the team Dynamic. However I was wrong and it really does pull its weight, and the wish support is excellent for the team.


    -=-=-=-




    [​IMG]

    Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast


    This is the first time I have ever used Salamence properly, Thanks Maka :P and how I regret overlooking him in the past. He may not have access to multiscale like Dragonite, however he does get intimidate, which can commonly force a switch to allow me to recieve a DD. Salamence maintains great coverage with Outrage and Earthquake, while also possessing Fire Blast to take care of common steel walls such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn, something Dragonite cannot do, Salamence is able to do this efficiently too thanks to his brilliant base stats. His EV's allow Salamence to abuse his Dragon Dance entirely, as most of those taking a Fire Blast will be 4x weak anyway, and with a nice SpAtk stat too, not much will be capable of surviving one... if it hits.


    I suggested Salamence to Pain to use over the common Dragonite. I haven't used Salamence in a long time, and it still is excellent. Dragon dancer set is chosen to set up and hit hard, and the chance to set up is even better with screens and intimidate. Fireblast is chosen to hit ferrothorn and skarmory, who otherwise stop this beast in its tracks. This pokemon is excellent in decimating teams, and should be used more :P.


    -=-=-=-



    [​IMG]

    Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Steadfast
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Ice Punch
    - Close Combat


    Standard SD Lucario, very underated, and very dangerous, even without boosts. Lucario can revenge kill most worn down foes that do not resist Extremespeed even without a boost, however if he manages to pull of a Swords Dance, he's sweeping material. +2 ES will outspeed and KO almost anything after hazard damage, and if its late game, its pretty much endgame. When it comes to walls such as Gliscor, Ice Punch takes care of him nicely after a Swords Dance, and Close Combat is for extra STAB coverage on Chansey and Rock types that resist ES.


    Another suggestion of mine into the team, +2 ES hits a lot of pokemon hard. Lucario's Frailty is alleviated with screens, allowing it to set up Sword Dances. The moves the standard, however in my variation of the team I Prefer to use crunch over ice punch to hit Jellicent, which I tend to see more than Gliscor. But Me and Pain are both happy with its use in the team.


    -=-=-=-



    [​IMG]

    Weavile (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Low Kick
    - Night Slash
    - Pursuit
    - Ice Shard


    Weavile is the final piece to this team and he fits it all together just perfectly. His speed allows him to outspeed alot of major threats to my team and KO them with the correct attack, such at Band Terrakion, Tyranitar, Gengar, Starmie, and so on. He makes a brilliant pursuit trapper, whilst also packing Night Slash for the extra power, Ice Shard allows him to destroy any dragon/flying mon, and Landorus after rocks with ease, and he can even leave a respectfull dent on Gliscor, sometimes KOing him if he's taken any prior damage. Low Kick gives Weavile near perfect coverage, and allows him to hit steel types and Rock types like Heatran, Ferrothorn, Terrakion and Tyranitar.


    At first I was sceptical about the use of Weavile in the team, I thought SCIZOR AND SR WEAK. While this is true, if it is played right it can work wonders. The pursuit trapper of our team, it knocks many threats out the of way so other pokemon can sweep. Ice shard is excellent, it helps against Dragonite, and Landorus. All other moves are standard, Low kick to do heavy damage to pokes like Heatran and Friends. Weavile, like Salamence is a surprising poke that is good if used properly.


    -=-=-=-



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    So thats our team, hopefully this RMT can help us to identify and patch up any weaknesses it may have an perhaps allow me to reach double figures in the ladder, thanks for reading! All constructive critique is appreciated!
  2. Dracule Mihawk

    Dracule Mihawk

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Reserved for Offensive threat list
  3. Thepain

    Thepain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    42
    Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Gliscor: He can be a bit of a nuisance to take down, mainly because my only super-effective attacks are physical, and he needs a fair bit of previous damage to KO with an Ice Shard, and he can protect stall to get more recovery. Due to his earthquake it can be a bit risky sending in Lucario to Ice Punch as he's good as dead without reflect up.

    [​IMG] Jirachi: This is what stopped me climbing the ladder, T-Wave + Iron Head spam, unless I am able to get Salamence in safely without being paralysed, Jirachi can break my team apart with ease.


    [​IMG] Gastrodon: Not such a big deal but it can get frustrating trying to wear him down without any grass attacks on the team.
  4. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¬°YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,866
    Hey there.

    A second dual screener would seriously help you out, especially since you have Jirachi which will help stall out your screens. Weavile seems out of place, especially since it has no set-up move. I suggest you run a Dual Screen Starmie in its place. Starmie can replenish your screens in the blink of an eye, and it's great speed still allows it to outspeed the majority of the metagame. Dual Screen teams should really not worry entirely about being able to revenge kill things such as Dragonite; you can simply bait Dragonite into Outrage and proceed to kill it with Lucario. Therefore, the loss of Weavile isn't huge.

    Starmie
    Show Hide
    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Hydro Pump
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen


    Ice Beam lets Starmie decimate dragons such as Dragonite, who could otherwise set up on it extremely easily.

    Solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!
  5. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    764
    Hey, how are you? First off, congrats on the great team and for taking the time to make this RMT as detailed as it already is. I suggest running Jolly Lucario so you can outspeed the Rotom family, if they aren't scarfed, as well as Jolly Toxicroak and Heracross. You will already be getting the Swords Dance boost in attack, anyhow.
  6. Thepain

    Thepain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    42
    Ive tried and tested this, and as much Starmie did help, the loss of Weavile really did hurt this team. Im hoping to be able to fit Starmie in eventually but Not over Weavile, it might just be me but my win loss dropped significantly, Starmie is a brilliant addition... Just not over Weavile.

    Thanks for the rate!
  7. TheGreatMilenko

    TheGreatMilenko

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    108
    Hey if gliscors giving you problems using air balloon over life orb on lucario can let you set up a SD or even switch into gliscor. You also resist ice fang and facade/toxic if the gliscor carries it,

    Just a suggestion, I hate balloon on anything but lucario really makes it work with gliscor being popular in today's meta.
  8. Emeral

    Emeral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    I think you should try Latias over Latios because Latias is more bulky and it can also set up Light Screen and reflect. Latias doesn't have Memento but it can use Healing wish and Magic Coat.
    Here the set:

    Latias@Light Clay
    Timid | 252EVs speed / 252Evs HP / 6Evs def
    - Light screen
    - Reflect
    - Magic coat
    - Healing Wish

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)