Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

[Super Mario Bro]

Mega Aggron: 70/ 140/ 230/ 60/ 80/ 50

Aggron-M is the meaning of the word wall...

Nothing is a wall without reliable recovery. "Tank" is the more appropriate term in the case of Megaggron.

Also, just a note on Breloom: I'm not sure whether or not Force Palm was increased to 65 base power along with Low Sweep. If not, Breloom comes out relatively unscathed in that circumstance.

 

[Count Serperior]

Quick question:
So how do you manage to get a Gale Wing (?) Talonflame?

 

[Pan.]

Nothing is a wall without reliable recovery. "Tank" is the more appropriate term in the case of Megaggron.

Also, just a note on Breloom: I'm not sure whether or not Force Palm was "buffed" to 65 base power along with Low Sweep. If not, Breloom comes out relatively unscathed in that circumstance.

Well, now that Sleep doesn't reset when switched out, SleepTalk is going to celebrate a comeback imo

 

[OneMightyparasect]

Avalugg looks like a Physically defensive version of Cryogonal, saw that the research tread said that it gets both Recover and Rapid spin, The disadvantage is obviosly that it is hit by spikes, but it looks decent enought

 

[Cowtao]

Talonflame has flare blitz. If your definition of walling is ''surviving a hit at 1hp thanks to sturdy'', then yes skarmory ''walls'' talonflame in the same way that it ''walls'' volcarona. It has PRIORITY on acrobatics. Only extremespeed users can outspeed it (and guess what, it only hits for neutral damage). It seriously looks like you're trying to manipulate facts to make your argument.

Yes. But that depends if you ARE running Acrobatics. You could also be running Brave Bird. I know it's not exactly walling but that still is surviving. Barely but still living on. I'm not trying to manipulate facts and if I am I apologize but honestly when did Latias, Latios, Raikou, or Jolteon suddenly got scarred of Aerobatics?

Point is...There is no point to be made in this argument. Honestly, I probably shouldn't have continued on with this as this will mean nothing when Smogon decides what Talonflame's abilities, specialties, and faults are. So let's just move onto something else more important...Like. Uhm...

Yeah. Where's Gale Wing Talonflame?

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Well, now that Sleep doesn't reset when switched out, SleepTalk is going to celebrate a comeback imo

While that's nice and all, I don't think it's likely that teams will consume their Mega Evo slot for a tank that relies on RestTalk for recovery and can't use Leftovers. It also has a 1.5X weakness to Fighting, which is rather unappealing for something that's supposed to take on physical attackers.

 

[JSND]

I want to say Azumarill but...

+2 Lucario Close Combat vs 252/252 Azu

60.9% - 71.8%


Better to rely on Priority Fighting attacks

 

[Halcyon.]

Brave Bird is definitely inferior to Acrobatics imo on Talonflame. You're getting 10+ BP, but you're using a second recoil move on a Pokémon that is x4 weak to Stealth Rock. That just seems extremely counterproductive to me. Besides, are there any really important KOs that you miss out on by using Acrobatics instead of Brave Bird? i don't think there are. I guess another advantage of Brave Bird is you get to run Life Orb or Choice Band, and you could use Roost in the fourth slot to make up for the recoil, but it generally seems like the worse option between the two. I'm almost definitely running Acrobatics when I use Talonflame (if I use Talonflame. I'm still pushing for Mega Charizard X :3).

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I want to say Azumarill but...

+2 Lucario Close Combat vs 252/252 Azu

60.9% - 71.8%


Better to rely on Priority Fighting attacks

Investing max defense on Azumarill sounds like a lame idea. It will be a better idea to counter him using existing Pokemon like Landorus-T and Gliscor, along with some unrevealed Pokemon that are potentially Fairy-type (Uxie, Cresselia, and Celebi).

I have to admit, though - Choice Band Azumarill will definitely be a fun thing to switch into Blaziken. It won't fear taking a Hi Jump Kick to the face nearly as much as before, and would immediately threaten Blaziken with priority Aqua Jet.

 

[JSND]

I was using max HP and defense because IIRC one of my previous calculations involves a dead CB Azu

I don't remember against what though

 

[Kejmur]

Yes. But that depends if you ARE running Acrobatics. You could also be running Brave Bird. I know it's not exactly walling but that still is surviving. Barely but still living on. I'm not trying to manipulate facts and if I am I apologize but honestly when did Latias, Latios, Raikou, or Jolteon suddenly got scarred of Aerobatics?

Point is...There is no point to be made in this argument. Honestly, I probably shouldn't have continued on with this as this will mean nothing when Smogon decides what Talonflame's abilities, specialties, and faults are. So let's just move onto something else more important...Like. Uhm...

Yeah. Where's Gale Wing Talonflame?

Adamant Brave Bird Calcs (assuming 80 base attack)
Jolten takes...

No Damage Item = 85.98% - 101.11%
Life Orb = 111.44% - 131.37%
Flying Plate = 102.95% - 121.40%

252 HP Latias takes...

No Damage Item = 93.13% - 109.89%
Life Orb = 121.15% - 142.86%
Flying Plate = 112.09% - 131.87%

Same calcs with Latios.

Now for Raikou

No Items = 61.06% - 71.96%
Life Orb = 79.44% - 93.46% (41,03% chance for OHKO)
Flying Plate = 73.52% - 86.60%

Ok, the only one who somewhat survive hit is Raikou and if you run Life Orb it may still go down in one hit. Pretty shaky. And +2 Flying Gem Acrobatics OHKO 100% of time. Just to post this out. Yep, honestly none of them have any business with Talonflame no matter if it runs Brave Bird or Acrobatics.

 

[Cowtao]

Alright, fair enough I remove my argument towards that. I kinda was thinking that Brave Bird was supposed to do more but I did something wrong. Apologies towards everyone that I might have tricked.

Also..Where are you guys getting the calcs for Talonflame? Cannot find any Kalos calculators anywhere...

 

[Spenstar]

Talonflame does seem like enough of a hard check to force Blaziken back into OU, if nothing else. That and Azumarill's new HJK resist means I'll be switching tiers along with my favorite Pokemon

 

[JSND]

For fun, I tried to calculate Choice Scarf Tyrantrum vs some of the threats

- no EV Gengar
Head Smash - 273.9% - 323%
Crunch - 195.4% - 229.9%(this is without Jaws)

- no EV Garchomp
Head Smash - 69.6% - 81.8%
Crunch - 49.4% - 58.4%(64.2 - 75.9 w/Jaws)

- M.Lucario
Head Smash - 48.4% - 56.9%
Crunch - 17.1% - 20.3%(22.2 - 26.3)

Tyrantrum takes
25.4% - 29.9% from +2 Adamant ES.
102.7% - 120.8% from +2 Adamant BP

- 252/252+ Jirachi
Head Smash - 42.3% - 50%
Crunch - 72% - 85.4%


Thats pretty good, considering how well it takes unboosted Bullet Punch. Granted we are talking about Recoil move here

 

[Psylink]

Thinking about it, with the new Fairy typing, Iron Tail and Iron Head may become legit coverage options on all the Pokemon whose STAB is resisted by Fairy. Dragons like Haxorus could run Iron Tail to catch such Pokemon on the switch (although Azumarill is neutral to it :( ). Dark-types like Absol could find a Fighting move less necessary since Steel doesn't resist Dark anymore, too. Thoughts?

There will still have to be coverage for Fairy-types, as they resist Dark, so you'll have to run a Steel move (or Poison if that floats your boat). With Fairy-types, Scizor will only be more viable...

 

[Psylink]

For fun, I tried to calculate Choice Scarf Tyrantrum vs some of the threats

- no EV Gengar
Head Smash - 273.9% - 323%
Crunch - 195.4% - 229.9%(this is without Jaws)

- no EV Garchomp
Head Smash - 69.6% - 81.8%
Crunch - 49.4% - 58.4%(64.2 - 75.9 w/Jaws)

- M.Lucario
Head Smash - 48.4% - 56.9%
Crunch - 17.1% - 20.3%(22.2 - 26.3)

Tyrantrum takes
25.4% - 29.9% from +2 Adamant ES.
102.7% - 120.8% from +2 Adamant BP

- 252/252+ Jirachi
Head Smash - 42.3% - 50%
Crunch - 72% - 85.4%


Thats pretty good, considering how well it takes unboosted Bullet Punch. Granted we are talking about Recoil move here

Could you give us some calcs with Stone Edge?

 

[JohnWesleyX]

Serebii has confirmed trevenant now gets harvest a it's hidden ability. Trevenant might be a one the better users of this ability. Thoughts?

 

[Kejmur]

Alright, fair enough I remove my argument towards that. I kinda was thinking that Brave Bird was supposed to do more but I did something wrong. Apologies towards everyone that I might have tricked.

Also..Where are you guys getting the calcs for Talonflame? Cannot find any Kalos calculators anywhere...

You may just use for example Smogon or Cherubi calculators and just type pure stats. For example Neutral Nature Base 80 Attack with Max Evs is 259 (or 284 with Adamant). After this just check for example 252 HP Latias + Min Def Latias (365 HP Points, 216 Defense). And calculate including items, boosts (here +2 on attacker), etc. If you don't know how many points for example 80 is, just find another Pokemon with same stat (like for example Skarmory which has base 80 Attack) for example on Smogon Analyses and just see how much points he would have if he invested Max amount of EVs in attack. Voila, you calculate with just pure stats without choosing any Pokemon.

Serebii has confirmed trevenant now gets harvest a it's hidden ability. Trevenant might be a one the better users of this ability. Thoughts?

Well with nerfed weather I don't think it sounds really appealing (for 100% chance you need sun up). And relying on 50% chance to get your berry back after consuming sounds really shaky. Not a fan of this ability myself honestly.

 

[Spenstar]

Have we calculated the base stats on all 4 forms of Gourgeist? (small, medium, large, super)

 

[the mystery duck]

Have we calculated the base stats on all 4 forms of Gourgeist? (small, medium, large, super)

No. It seems like no one has found the super size yet.

 

[JSND]

Could you give us some calcs with Stone Edge?

Actually I need to redo the calculation because I mistyped

Scarf Trum vs

- Choice Scarf Garchomp
Stone Edge - 23.2% - 27.4%
Head Smash - 34.6% - 41.1%
EQ - 31% - 36.6%
Crunch - 24.9% - 29.3%(Jawless))
Dragon Claw - 74.3% - 87.7%

- Standard EV-less Gengar
Head Smash - 137.4% - 161.8%
Stone Edge - 91.6% - 108%
Crunch - 98.5% - 116%(Jawless)

- 252/252+ Jirachi
Crunch - 36.2% - 42.2%(Jawless)
Head Smash - 25.1% - 29.8%
Stone Edge - 16.7% - 19.9%
EQ - 45% - 53.2%

- SD M.Lucario
Head Smash - 24.2% - 28.5%
EQ - 86.8% - 102.5%
Stone Edge - 16% - 19.2%


Durability with no investment

- M. Luca +0
Bullet Punch - 52% - 61.6%
Crunch - 25.7% - 30.2%
E. Speed - 12.7% - 15.1%

- Band Zor
Bullet Punch - 83.4% - 98.5%
U-Turn - 48.3% - 57.4%

- LO Gar
Shadow Ball - 77.3% - 91.5%
SS Shadow Ball - 52% - 61.6%
Focus Miss is double of these value, but they always misses

- Bandzumarill
Aqua Jet - 30.8% - 36.6%

- Mamoswine
CB Jolly Ice Shard - 50.8% - 60.4%
CB Adamant Ice Shard - 56.2% - 65.9%

So, yeah sorry to those who read that mistyped calcs >_>
This is much less amazing than what I thought

 

[X5Dragon]

Serebii update:

20:48: It appears the Chespin line's Hidden Ability is Bulletproof, which protects against Ball & Bomb moves

 

[Soda]

So Chesnaut is immune to Shadow Ball, Energy Ball (now buffed), Ice Ball, Mist Ball, Weather Ball, Electro Ball, Gyro Ball, Seed Bomb, Egg Bomb, Mud Bomb, Magnet Bomb, Sludge Bomb.

Any others? Situational but kinda awesome, Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb are rather significant. Seed Bomb, Energy Ball, and Gyro Ball are cool too.

 

[Strykeypoo]

So Chesnaut is immune to Shadow Ball, Energy Ball (now buffed), Ice Ball, Mist Ball, Weather Ball, Electro Ball, Gyro Ball, Seed Bomb, Egg Bomb, Mud Bomb, Magnet Bomb, Sludge Bomb.

Any others? Situational but kinda awesome, Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb are rather significant. Seed Bomb, Energy Ball, and Gyro Ball are cool too.

I wonder if Focus Blast is included. Probably not, but this still gives Chesnaut incredible resilience to Gengar.

 

[Coogrr]

I'm thinking that assault vest might be a decent choice on Aegislash because it will make him even more difficult to take down from the special side and you have king's shield for the physical attacks.

Also Aegislash is also going to suffer from a severe case of 4MSS because you want king's shield, his two boosting moves and Iron head, shadow sneak and sacred sword for coverage.