Lucario

[Hack]

Name: Lucario
Type: Fighting / Steel
Abilities: Steadfast
Base Stats: 70 / 110 / 70 / 115 / 70 / 90

Mega-Lucario
Type: Fighting / Steel
Abilities: Adaptability
Base Stats: 70 / 145 / 88 / 140 / 70 / 112
Movepool and research: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lucario.3489503/

General Description:
Lucario, who wasn't a very good choice for any team last generation, has returned with the boost coming from its Lucarionite. With higher attack (at the cost of Life Orb, though) and Adaptability, its Close Combat is a force to reckoned with, for example it can outspeed the Adamant variants of Arceus-Normal before evolving, live a hit and OHKO, something Terrakion cannot do. It is also a passable offensive check to Xerneas, stripping about half of its life or more with an 80 BP Bullet Punch. Having coverage in form of Crunch or Stone Edge depending if you hate Giratina-O or Ho-oh more, and a boosting move in Swords Dance, Mega-Lucario will definitely be capable of fulfilling a niche in the tier. On the downside, its bulk is low and its speed quite bad before it mega-evolves, and it sadly hates support Arceus formes with Will o' Wisp, which are quite common. Discuss!

 

[Donkey]

what are the calcs of this bad boy with steel moves vs stuff like lugia and gira-a

 

[Furai]

252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lugia: 164-194 (39.42 - 46.63%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 166-196 (33 - 38.96%) -- 8.89% chance to 3HKO

 

[Paul L.]

I've battled with this thing against many players (including you) and I have to say that it's one of my favorite mega-mon. Being able to check EK arceus and revenge kill xerneas is pretty niffty imo. :/

 

[jim995]

252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lugia: 164-194 (39.42 - 46.63%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 166-196 (33 - 38.96%) -- 8.89% chance to 3HKO

All in all, its probably not sweeping any time soon... Also, losing out to Xerneas/Yveltal (and, to a lesser extent, the Lati twins, Palkia, and Genesect among others) with an Adamant nature versus a Jolly one hurts, while the loss of power in the opposite case is equally bad.

However, its niche uses of revenging Extreme-killer reasonably well as well as Xerneas with Iron Tail/BP cannot be denied. (Additionally, through a small bit of testing, it is actually a pretty funny Ho-oh lure with Stone Edge/Rock Slide as most people think it runs Crunch even though it still has trouble with the Giratina forms with Crunch).

 

[Donkey]

252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lugia: 164-194 (39.42 - 46.63%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Adaptability Lucario Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 166-196 (33 - 38.96%) -- 8.89% chance to 3HKO

im sad

 

[jim995]

im sad

Yay for 75% accuracy as well. :(

 

[Jibaku]

if mega lucario becomes a very common threat I can see Extremekiller running Jolly just to one-up it, so I wouldn't entirely rely on it as a check. The same thing happened with the base 90 speed creep and Rayquaza's nature back in Gen 4, although less exaggerated because there were multiple base 90s. Still, in Arceus' case, outrunning nonscarf terrakion is nice :).

 

[Skyblade12]

I've always loved Special Lucario. It's the higher attack stat, and no one expects it. True, you lose the great Priority moves, but you still get some truly great type coverage, especially with the boost to Steel.
Would an Aura Sphere / Flash Cannon combo with another coverage move and possibly Nasty Plot be viable?

 

[Hack]

if mega lucario becomes a very common threat I can see Extremekiller running Jolly just to one-up it, so I wouldn't entirely rely on it as a check. The same thing happened with the base 90 speed creep and Rayquaza's nature back in Gen 4, although less exaggerated because there were multiple base 90s. Still, in Arceus' case, outrunning nonscarf terrakion is nice :).

Even if Lucario becomes really common I think E-killer is kinda better of as Jolly in this generation. The support Arceus metagame is popular for a reason and Will-o-Wisp misses much less so a lot of people will check Ekiller relying on the move coming from stuff like Arceus-Rock. Speed tying with Will-o-Wisp Arceus isn't a perfect solution but it does help. Also, you outspeed Gengar before at can Mega-Evolve which is nice.

 

[superstar]

what are the calcs of this bad boy with steel moves vs stuff like lugia and gira-a

Why would you use a Steel-move though? Lucario is a great sweeper with Close Combat/Bullet Punch/Crunch/SD. You only really lose to Ho-Oh Support Arceus formes that are faster than you and not weak to steel (i.e. not Fairy or Rock), and Scarfers that resist Bullet Punch. Its a great cleaner after the other team has been weakened a bit, and can punch big holes with Close Combat until that happens.

+2 252 Atk Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lugia: 238-282 (57.21 - 67.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Lucario Crunch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Giratina: 322-380 (64.01 - 75.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 324-384 (72.97 - 86.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 322-380 (79.7 - 94.05%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Donkey]

Why would you use a Steel-move though? Lucario is a great sweeper with Close Combat/Bullet Punch/Crunch/SD. You only really lose to Ho-Oh Support Arceus formes that are faster than you and not weak to steel (i.e. not Fairy or Rock), and Scarfers that resist Bullet Punch. Its a great cleaner after the other team has been weakened a bit, and can punch big holes with Close Combat until that happens.

+2 252 Atk Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Lugia: 238-282 (57.21 - 67.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Lucario Crunch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Giratina: 322-380 (64.01 - 75.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 324-384 (72.97 - 86.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 322-380 (79.7 - 94.05%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Lugia/Giratina/WoW Arceus forms faster than Lucario that are neutral or resist BP/Lando-T/Gliscor all wall the shit out of the set you listed. Iron Tail does more damage than Crunch to Lugia, Giratina-O, Giratina-A, Lando-T, and Gliscor, Ho-Oh walls you if you don't run Rock Slide or Stone Edge (or Thunder Punch), and Aegislash walls you if you don't run Crunch or EQ (Iron Tail and Tpunch do rape Aegislash's offensive form, but without taunt, it's unlikely you will ever get the chance to fight that form.)

Bullet Punch is underwhelming. Even with Adaptability, you aren't OHKOing Arceus-Rock/Fairy. Lando-T, Gliscor, Ho-oh all wall you just for the ability to check those 2 arceus forms, which are hit really fucking hard by Close Combat and Iron Tail (Yes, they can burn or outspeed, but you're still going to be doing a shitload of damage).

Bullet Punch is also an unreliable check at best to Xerneas since it will never OHKO. It requires that the rest of your team can do 50% damage to Xerneas on the turn it uses Geomancy (read: you can't use scarf special attackers, if you use specs special attackers you can only use certain moves, etc etc)

Your calcs are also misleading: Lugia could have multiscale up and Giratina generally runs max defense in this gen unless your team is incredibly specs ogre weak.

So in conclusion: you are using bullet punch as a last ditch effort to check Xerneas, and check Arc-Rock/Arc-Fight when you could be using the manlier move, Iron Tail, which makes you perform better against the pokemon I listed above.

Also, IIRC +2 Crunch does not OHKO max HP Ho-oh after SR, so depending on what you are more worried about, Aegislash or Ho-Oh, in the last slot you can run Crunch or Stone Edge --> using Iron Tail also gives you this freedom of choice whereas otherwise you are forced to run Crunch for Giratina, Lugia, etc.

 

[superstar]

Stuff

Point taken. Seems like that is the optimal Uber set then. Would Earthquake be better in the last slot over Crunch (if you go that route) though because you don't have to predict around King's Shield? Or am I missing something else it hits?

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure why you say that Lucario can't OHKO Ho-Oh after rocks considering that resisted CC outdamages Crunch allowing you to wreck Ho-Oh if you can keep rocks up

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Ho-Oh: 240-283 (57.83 - 68.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Donkey]

Point taken. Seems like that is the optimal Uber set then. Would Earthquake be better in the last slot over Crunch (if you go that route) though because you don't have to predict around King's Shield? Or am I missing something else it hits?

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure why you say that Lucario can't OHKO Ho-Oh after rocks considering that resisted CC outdamages Crunch allowing you to wreck Ho-Oh if you can keep rocks up

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Ho-Oh: 240-283 (57.83 - 68.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Oh ok, didn't realize that was so strong. EQ is definitely superior in the last slot then, no real need to run Stone Edge or Crunch at all. Sorry for the lengthy response, I just wanted to address the moveset thoroughly.

 

[KogaEliteFour]

Why would you use Stone Miss (Stone Edge) when Ho-oh has better counters? I would run Crunch instead, because everybody hates Giratina. And a special Lucario is not as effective now with Assault Vests haywire. I reckon Gen 6 strategies shouldn't be basically a Gen 5 strategy.

 

[jim995]

Why would you use Stone Miss (Stone Edge) when Ho-oh has better counters? I would run Crunch instead, because everybody hates Giratina. And a special Lucario is not as effective now with Assault Vests haywire. I reckon Gen 6 strategies shouldn't be basically a Gen 5 strategy.

Not to mention the huge power disparity between CC and Iron Tail vs. Aura Sphere and Flash Cannon.

 

[hi reshiram]

Point taken. Seems like that is the optimal Uber set then. Would Earthquake be better in the last slot over Crunch (if you go that route) though because you don't have to predict around King's Shield? Or am I missing something else it hits?

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure why you say that Lucario can't OHKO Ho-Oh after rocks considering that resisted CC outdamages Crunch allowing you to wreck Ho-Oh if you can keep rocks up

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Ho-Oh: 240-283 (57.83 - 68.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Are these calcs with adamant or jolly nature?

 

[superstar]

Are these calcs with adamant or jolly nature?

jolly, adamant would have a plus sign after the atk :)

 

[jim995]

From playing with Lucario, I've found that it is very difficult to get a SD off, and even when I do there are several things that can get in front of my sweep (mostly faster things that can OHKO and avoid KOs from BP/Espeed, cause its not E-Killer Guys... The priority is underwhelming). Most of the time I found it more useful to punch holes into teams with straight up CCing and using Iron Tail/my coverage move. Thus I see some 4 attacks sets as not totally unreasonable (though you might be better off using a different Pokemon, idk).

Edit 1: The set would probably be CC, Iron Tail, then 2 of BP, Edge, and EQ (Crunch is outclassed by Iron Tail EQ combo, and Ice Punch is underwhelming overall).

Edit 2: SE is still useful, because rocks may not be guaranteed in the Defog meta-game, and its nice to lure full HP Ho-ohs without rocks as well. Aegislash fails to be OHKO'ed by EQ, although it doesn't do much back if it lacks Sacred Sword.

Edit 3: I correct myself on "not much back": Shadow Ball hurts.

 

[sneaky.]

Adaptability CC does a shit load of damage to nearly everything that doesn't 4x resist it, from my experience.

 

[D-Rock16]

Lol, sorry about that. :P Guess I shouldn't just post movesets like that w/o going into detail about them... Well, since it got deleted:

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Crunch
- Swords Dance

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 204-240 (51.9 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (!!)
Compared to:
+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 324-382 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (it still survives)

I was assuming that with the addition of the Fairy-type, Poison and Steel-type moves are going to be a lot more common, and with Lucario's case, Bullet Punch would be more common than ExtremeSpeed, mostly because of Adaptability. Crunch still has good coverage. And a +2 Drain Punch could still do a lot of damage and recover HP, despite being weaker than Close Combat.

 

[Haruno]

Lol, sorry about that. :P Guess I shouldn't just post movesets like that w/o going into detail about them... Well, since it got deleted:

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Crunch
- Swords Dance

+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 204-240 (51.9 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (!!)
Compared to:
+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 324-382 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (it still survives)

I was assuming that with the addition of the Fairy-type, Poison and Steel-type moves are going to be a lot more common, and with Lucario's case, Bullet Punch would be more common than ExtremeSpeed, mostly because of Adaptability. Crunch still has good coverage. And a +2 Drain Punch could still do a lot of damage and recover HP, despite being weaker than Close Combat.

How are you getting said +2 boost? Lucas defenses are piss poor (70/88/70) so although it might have some resistances, it's still near/ko'd by most neutral/super effective attacks. Not to mention you're sitting at an unimpressive 90 base speed on turn 1 and worse than that is how unlike blaziken (similar slow as fuck mon on turn 1)you're not forced to 50-50 with it, rather the safest move agaisnt luca is to just attack where it'll be heavily dented/dead. Lucario really has no set up opportunities not to mention that even if you do force a switch, whatever comes in will be well prepared to handle luca.

Also your statement about the introduction of xerneas (and fairyceus to an extent) bringing a rise to steel/poison types is completely incorrect. There are still little if any poison types in the higher levels of play and the only two steels worth mentioning (dialga + aegis) with the former being unable to handle xerneas and the later hard stopping it. Overall luca has little to any chance to come in safely and set up which really holds it back. Though no one is denying how it's stupidly strong when it can set up but same can be said for tons of mons. Also don't use drain punch, luca desperately needs the power from close combat since if it's not ohko'ing then it's getting ohko'd. Also all xerneas sets run some type of bulk investment so your calcs aren't really relevant.

 

[D-Rock16]

How are you getting said +2 boost?

From Swords Dance.

There are still little if any poison types in the higher levels of play...

To quote myself, "Poison and Steel-type MOVES are going to be a lot more common,..." but you do actually bring up a good point: The only Poison-type in Ubers is Arceus-Poison. I suppose what I said about Poison and Steel- moves being more common only applies to OU or lower tiers, where there's actually an abundance of Fairy-types. Having said all that, I'm not sure if Bullet Punch is better than ExtremeSpeed, but I'll still stick with Drain Punch over Close Combat. It may not be the preferred move, but I like the formers after-effect over the latter.

 

[Haruno]

From Swords Dance.



To quote myself, "Poison and Steel-type MOVES are going to be a lot more common,..." but you do actually bring up a good point: The only Poison-type in Ubers is Arceus-Poison. I suppose what I said about Poison and Steel- moves being more common only applies to OU or lower tiers, where there's actually an abundance of Fairy-types. Having said all that, I'm not sure if Bullet Punch is better than ExtremeSpeed, but I'll still stick with Drain Punch over Close Combat. It may not be the preferred move, but I like the formers after-effect over the latter.

whoops misread it. Either way steel/poison moves still aren't more common (bar the odd dialga flash cannon here and there) besides that there is almost no additional poison/steel types seen just because their coverage is absolutely shit. Espeed doesn't do much for luca. There is no priority in ubers bar deo-a/arceus' espeed that would outspeed luca anyhow. The only reason why people even ran espeed in ou was because talonflame would ohko you otherwise, but that's moot in ubers. Regardless luca has little/no opportunity to get up a swords dance thanks to mediocre defenses, lack of offensive pressure on its mega evo turn (it's much safer just attacking it) and not to mention that even if it gets a boost, scarfers are still used and give it hell.

 

[Noobish]

Special Lucario calcs (after finding the right thread). Just thought I'd share these.

Special Luke dominates vs. Physical Luke, due to its excellent plain coverage and reliability.


+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza: 400-472 (113.9 - 134.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
A boosted, and outsped OHKO on Rayquaza. Physical Luke cannot even come close to this.

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-O: 366-432 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 234-276 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 442-522 (138.1 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 238-282 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
A 2HKO on Lugia of all things after a Nasty Plot boost. Again something Physical Luke cannot do.

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arceus: 628-740 (141.4 - 166.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even the god of the Pokemon world cannot stand up to boosted NP Lucario, since Adamant natures are outsped and Extremespeed will only dent Luke, not kill.

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 190-224 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Groudon: 400-472 (99 - 116.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
OHKO on Groudon.

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 276-326 (80.7 - 95.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
A potential OHKO with rocks on Kyogre.

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-W: 732-864 (161.2 - 190.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 314-370 (88.9 - 104.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mewtwo X: 366-432 (103.6 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just to show, that a Mewtwo cannot switch in on Lucario after a boost due to Flash Cannon.

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 422-498 (141.6 - 167.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 652-768 (185.2 - 218.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So much for that wall.

Unboosted, for the lulz
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 333-393 (96.8 - 114.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
In case the threatening wall that is Mega Aggrom makes it to Ubers.
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 404-476 (143.7 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If you predict a switch, Darkrai dies.

Of course, Ho-Oh is a great check. Unless you have a boost, SR and you predict the switch
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere/Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh: 119-141 (28.6 - 33.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Clearly, Special Luke will be able to serve as a Special Sweeper or, especially, a late-game cleaner, despite its subpar bulk. You could give it Vacuum wave, since Flash Cannon is the same as Dark Pulse on ghosts and psychics. It is unlikely Aegislash will make it to Ubers, thankfully.