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Ludicolo (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Windsong, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Ludicolo

    [Overview]

    <p>Ludicolo is a staple of rain teams in RU mostly because of its partial Grass typing, which gives the dancing duck the ability to mow through many common bulky Water-types that usually wall rain teams. In addition, Ludicolo possesses lightning-fast Speed in rain thanks to Swift Swim, and is in general an all-around solid Pokemon. However, Ludicolo does suffer a bit from its rather unimpressive 70 / 90 attacking stats, with Swords Dance being the only option to increase its middling Attack stat.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Special Attacker
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Rain Dance
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ludicolo has an extremely solid movepool, which allows it to hit most of the common RU Pokemon with its two STABs and clear away many common answers to rain teams. Hydro Pump and Surf are the main moves competing for Ludicolo's primary STAB option. In general, Hydro Pump should be used if power is more important, whereas Surf provides greater overall reliability. However, due to the extremely offensive oriented nature of the rain teams that Ludicolo often finds itself on, Hydro Pump is usually a superior option to Surf, as its significantly greater power allows Ludicolo to get the most out of the few turns of rain it has available.</p>

    <p>Giga Drain is an interesting new addition to Ludicolo's (competitive) movepool this generation. Thanks to its increase in power from previous generations, it's now a superior option to Energy Ball or Grass Knot; it is only slightly weaker, but also allows Ludicolo to recover large portions of its HP. This especially helps Ludicolo against the many common priority moves in the tier. Ice Beam fits well into the third slot on this set, enabling Ludicolo to eliminate bulky Grass- and Flying-types. Finally, Rain Dance rounds off the set in order to set up a few extra turns to sweep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs allow Ludicolo to outspeed everything up to +1 positive-natured base 90s, most notably Lilligant. Ludicolo doesn't hit many important Speed tiers by investing significantly more in Speed, other than Choice Scarf Galvantula. However, this much Speed investment usually isn't worth it as Ludicolo would need to run a Timid nature, and the drop in power is clearly noticeable. In a similar vein, because Ludicolo needs all the power it can get, Life Orb is the preferred option on this set. Damp Rock is also a viable item, though it too is not recommended.</p>

    <p>Naturally, Ludicolo pairs extremely well with other Swift Swim Pokemon and Rain Dance setters, due to the fact that bulky Water-types typically have trouble with it. However, Ludicolo does fail to eliminate some common rain checks, such as Ferroseed, as well as many dedicated special walls, such as Cryogonal, especially if you choose not to run Focus Blast. Therefore, it should be be paired with Pokemon capable of removing those threats, such as Kabutops and Omastar, who both fit easily onto rain teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt / Drain Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Swords Dance Ludicolo is much less common than specially based Ludicolo simply due to Ludicolo's significantly higher Special Attack. However, Ludicolo has an interesting toy in the form of Swords Dance, which allows it to hit an incredible 524 Attack and lets it break through almost all of its common switch-ins.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance is the crux of the set, powering up Ludicolo's otherwise weak base 70 Attack to sky-high levels. Waterfall and Seed Bomb, Ludicolo's main STAB moves, form the core of the set, with the former receiving a significant boost from rain. Finally, the last slot on Ludicolo's moveset is entirely up to personal preference; Ice Punch decimates Torterra, Lilligant, and other bulky Grass-types, Zen Headbutt mainly hits Qwilfish and Weezing, and Drain Punch fells Ferroseed and provides some recovery.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set's EVs allow Ludicolo to outspeed positive-natured +1 base 90s in rain. However, unlike specially based Ludicolo sets, this set cannot afford to run more Speed in order to outspeed faster threats. Ludicolo really needs all the offensive power it can get, because even with Swords Dance, Ludicolo's Attack is still rather lacking, especially considering that it's been boosted.</p>

    <p>The best partners for this set are, again, other Swift Swim sweepers and bulky Rain Dance inducers. Kabutops, Omastar, and Gorebyss all fill the former role; Kabutops benefits from Ludicolo weakening physical walls, while Omastar and Gorebyss can exploit Ludicolo's luring in and eliminating special walls. In terms of Rain Dance support, Uxie, Altaria, and Drifblim are all solid options capable of providing support in some way other than just Rain Dance (Heal Bell, for example).</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>While it is usually seen using only its STABs and an Ice-type coverage move, Ludicolo has a surprisingly large movepool. Rain Special Attacker Ludicolo can use Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fighting in order to break down Ferroseed and Munchlax. Swords Dance Ludicolo also has a bunch of other options worth consideration, such as ThunderPunch and Fake Out; however, the former doesn't really provide any additional coverage, while the latter simply wastes rain turns.</p>

    <p>Ludicolo has a few other interesting options available to it. Most notably, the more gimmicky Counter, which can be used on a lead set in conjunction with Fake Out; however, this is rather inefficient due to Team Preview. Finally, Ludicolo can pull off some defensive sets reasonably well thanks to Haze.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>With it raining on the field, Ludicolo can be surprisingly difficult to counter, because despite its middling offenses, it still outspeeds everything and hits pretty hard with its STAB rain-boosted attacks. In general, however, most Pokemon with Water Absorb or those who resist Hydro Pump, and that can take a hit from Giga Drain as well, can check Ludicolo, though perhaps not very easily. For example, Poliwrath and Lanturn are both capable of switching in on anything other than Giga Drain from the Rain Special Attacker and subsequently force out or damage Ludicolo. In addition, many specially bulky Pokemon are capable of taking hits from Ludicolo. For example, Uxie, Munchlax, and Cryogonal can all take a few hits from Ludicolo, with the former two paralyzing it with Thunder Wave or Body Slam respectively, while Cryogonal can Toxic Ludicolo or stall out the rain turns with Recover.</p>

    <p>Swords Dance Ludicolo is a bit harder to handle. However, Tangrowth can wall it and either Sleep Powder or Power Whip the Mexican pineapple. In addition, after you've determined what coverage move Ludicolo is running, Ferroseed or Qwilfish can check it pretty easily as well, with Qwilfish being especially effective thanks to Intimidate.</p>

    <p>Finally, Ludicolo really hates taking hits from strong priority, as its defenses are good but by no means excellent. Taking repeated hits from ExtremeSpeed and Sucker Punch from high-powered threats such as Entei and Honchkrow will wear Ludicolo down extremely quickly.</p>
  2. pie cream

    pie cream

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    ferroseed should be in counters section to since it takes nothing from your attacks and paralyze you, maybe menion focus blast on the rain sweeper?
  3. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Damn, I can't believe I forgot to mention that, haha. Guess I was in a bit of a hurry when I typed this.

    Anyways, yeah, added + made a bit more of a mention.

    Edit:

    @Everything up to Mikedecishere's post: changes made.

    I'm also not going to include the bulky subseeder simply because it pretty much requires permanent rain to be effective, and doesn't work well on standard RU rain teams due to the fact that they need to keep the offensive momentum in their favor throughout the match and sweep through as much as possible during their eight rain turns.

    edit2: @Honko post: typo, my mistake, was supposed to be base 90s.
  4. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    Substitute should be slashed in the last slot on the special rain sweeper set. I know it's a generic move that any sweeper benefits from but in Ludicolo's case it actually has a slot available and it lets him beat Ferroseed without having to use Focus Blast and makes it much harder for Honchkrow to revenge.

    Also I don't think Bullet Seed even deserves a mention. A CB wall-breaker or something may appreciate the gimmicky chance for extra damage but a sweeper desperately needs to know exactly how much residual damage is needed before attempting a sweep and the risk of doing a pathetic 50BP or 75BP compared to Seed Bomb's consistent 80BP is just too much of a gamble.

    In summary, Ludicolo is cool!
  5. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    In the additional comments for the first set, you have Ferrothorn instead of Ferroseed lol.

    What is the viability of a bulky Sub/Seeder? I know that Ferroseed is a popular switch in to Ludicolo, but Sub Seed can still be annoying as sin
  6. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I'd also add a bulky subseeder since they're hard to take down (especially with rain support)

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  7. Zephyr

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  8. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
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  9. sirndpt

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    remove add comments



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  10. Honko

    Honko
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    I just noticed a problem with the EVs. If you're trying to outspeed +1 base 95s, you need 476 Speed, which means 238 Speed before Rain Dance, which takes 248 EVs, not 240. At that point you might as well just max Speed (to tie other Ludicolo, and also secretly to "speed creep" anything else aiming for the same benchmark). I'd go with a straight 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest spread.
  11. Komodo

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  12. Oglemi

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