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Lunatone (QC 2/3) [AVAILABLE]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by SteelEdges, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges do you know what a slave boy is
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    [Overview]

    In a tier with a myriad of Psychic-types, it may seem that Lunatone struggles to carve a niche. This assumption is incorrent: Lunatone's good Special Defense and intriguing Rock/Psychic-typing (a Ground-type immunity in its ability Levitate doesn't hurt) allow it to check powerful special attackers such as Charizard or Jynx. Furthermore, it boasts reliable recovery and a decent support movepool. Interestingly, it can also elect to run a Rock Polish sweeping set, though other offensive Psychic-types may perform this duty better. Lunatone's typing is sadly both a boon and a curse, as it leaves it open to common Grass-, Water-, and Dark-type attacks, and its subpar Defense does it no favors.

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Moonlight
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Toxic / Psychic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    The best of what Lunatone has to offer - typing, decent special bulk, and movepool - is combined in this set. Stealth Rock is invaluable to any NU team, punishing the opponent with every switch. Moonlight helps Lunatone recover damage it takes, and enables it to check specially offensive threats like Charizard. Hidden Power Rock is Lunatone's primary attacking move, due to its great neutral coverage and STAB; also, it dispatches of Jynx and Charizard. The final slot is up to the player's preference. Toxic allows Lunatone to damage bulky Pokemon that Hidden Power Rock grazes, but Psychic offers more offensive coverage and an additional STAB.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    In place of Toxic or Psychic, Earth Power can be used to provide coverage, but it's somewhat underwhelming. Lunatone gets interesting support moves that could fit in that slot, such as Hypnosis or Magic Coat, but Toxic is generally the superior choice. This set, as mentioned before, excels at removing Charizard and Jynx, so Pokemon that benefit from their absence make great partners.

    [SET]
    name: Rock Polish
    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Earth Power / Baton Pass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Lunatone's average Special Attack - not to mention its mediocre Speed - may seem unfitting for a sweeper. That said, a Modest nature and the Life Orb boost go a long way. After a Rock Polish with the given EV spread, Lunatone outspeeds Scarf Jynx, Scarf Haunter, and Scarf Primeape, which are promptly OHKO'd. Psychic and Hidden Power Rock again provide STAB and decent coverage. The final move is the player's preference; while Earth Power nails Steel-types that resist Lunatone's STABs, Baton Pass can support the team by aiding an additional sweeper. It also helps in avoiding the Pursuit from Skuntank.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    Hypnosis is an option to help Lunatone set up, but it's quite difficult to fit on the set, and inaccurate, anyway. If you're using Baton Pass, something to remove Steel-types is recommended, as Lunatone will be walled by them otherwise.

    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    Lunatone gets a wide variety of other support and offensive moves. It can support dedicated Trick Room teams by setting up and using Explosion to quickly get a sweeper in; the same principle applies to a dual screens user holding Light Clay. Calm Mind is an alternate boosting move, but it doesn't help with Lunatone's Speed. Psyshock is an alternative to Psychic if you would prefer to attack physically frailer Pokemon. Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Signal Beam, and Shadow Ball could all be used to target various Pokemon, but Lunatone greatly prefers to use its STABs. Pain Split is a lesser option to pseudo-heal Lunatone while hopefully damaging the opponent. Finally, Cosmic Power can boost both of Lunatone's defenses, but it's generally a waste of time.

    [Checks and Counters]

    Lunatone's weaknesses are quite exploitable. Skuntank, Ludicolo, Exeggutor, and Golurk can hurt it with their super-effetive STABs. The Rock Polish set is especially vulnerable to physical priority, such as Liepard's Sucker Punch or Samurott's Aqua Jet. Powerful physical attacks in general are a good response, as its Defense is lacking, especially for a Rock-type.

    Whew! First write-up.
    [Overview (open)

    • An interesting and nearly unique typing, to be sure
    • Stellar ability in Levitate that negates its Ground-type weakness
    • Surprisingly fast after a Rock Polish boost, and able to KO several Scarfers
    • Very decent special movepool, but sadly has to rely on Hidden Power for Rock STAB
    • An intriguing support movepool
    • An unorthodox choice in NU with some interesting tools at its disposal
    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Moonlight
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Toxic / Psychic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • With Stealth Rock, reliable recovery, and a cool support movepool, Lunatone makes a great utility mon
    • Stealth Rock is obligatory for team support
    • Moonlight provides reliable recovery
    • HP Rock nails Charizard and Jynx
    • Toxic can damage bulky Pokemon that resists HP Rock, while Psychic provides additional STAB
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Earth Power can be used for pseudo-EdgeQuake coverage
    • Hypnosis is unreliable, but an option
    • Magic Coat can reflect hazards and status
    • This set is a very solid Charizard check, so Pokemon that benefit from its absence make great partners
    [SET]
    name: Rock Polish
    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Earth Power / Baton Pass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Switch into a Ground-type or resisted move and set up a Rock Polish
    • 248 Speed EVs are required to outspeed Scarf Jynx, max Special Attack goes without saying, and 8 in HP for "bulk"
    • While Lunatone might not seem powerful (or fast) enough, it is able to outspeed Scarf Jynx, Scarf Primeape, and Scarf Haunter post-boost and KO them
    • Psychic and Hidden Power Rock are for STAB
    • Earth Power nails the Steel-types that resist Lunatone's STABs and provides excellent coverage, though Baton Pass can support the team or another sweeper
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Hypnosis
    • If using Baton Pass, a Fighting-type physical sweeper could be a great partner, as it can take down most NU special walls and Steel-types that would wall this set; in addition, much of these Pokemon would appreciate a +2 boost in Speed.

    [Other Options]
    • Trick Room
    • Dual Screens
    • Calm Mind
    • Ice Beam
    • Grass Knot
    • Signal Beam
    • Shadow Ball
    • Pain Split
    • Cosmic Power
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Very exploitable weaknesses - Grass, Water, Ghost, Dark - Pokemon such as Exeggutor, Ludicolo, Golurk, and Skuntank can shoot the moon, so to speak, with their STAB moves
    • The Rock Polish set loses to special walls and Steel-types if not running Earth Power - in addition, it loses to super-effective priority attacks like Samurott's Aqua Jet or Liepard's Sucker Punch
    • It's physically frail, especially for a Rock-type, so powerful neutral or super-effective physical moves will wear it down.] Skeleton
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  2. scorpdestroyer

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    Not real QC, but I think you should mention somewhere that Lunatone is one of the best counters to Charizard. Also, I think HP Rock should get the first slash for utility since it hits Charizard and basically that's what Lunatone is for, but idk. I guess you should mention it faces intense competition from other special walls and even Solrock who arguably walls better, and it shouldn't really see use on most serious teams. (also Rock Polish may be a bit weak and tbh I don't think it deserves a set and dual screens sounds more legit than that but that's up to qc)
  3. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges do you know what a slave boy is
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    You seem to think I am advocating Lunatone as a special wall. This is not the case.
  4. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    It is a notable niche that Lunatone can perform, seeing as it is one of, if not the only Charizard counter that has reliable recovery, a way to OHKO Zard and (this is a fairly impressive feat) can stop both special and physical Charizard, though it folds to SunnyBeamer.

    Quoting what Scorp has said, Lunatone faces a lot of competition when it comes to walling stuff (notably Solrock who has Will-o-Wisp), but the mention of stopping Charizard should definitely be mentioned in the 'Utility' set. Also, why have no defensive investment and so much Speed (Timid no less) in the 'Utility' set at all?
  5. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges do you know what a slave boy is
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    After thinking about it, I have retooled the Utility set. Thank you for your comments.
  6. tennisace

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    Swap the two sets imo, I feel like the utility set is more effective in this metagame (solid Charizard check > mediocre situational sweeper).
    HP Rock should get the slash > Psychic for that reason, with Psychic being slashed with Magic Coat. Hypnosis is too unreliable, and should be AC.
  7. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges do you know what a slave boy is
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    Implemented tennisace's changes.
  8. Raseri

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    I agree 100% with the utility set being first, I've played with it quite a bit, and its definitely better in this meta than the sweeper set. However, there are a few changes to it I'd like to see, I think the set should look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Moonlight
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Psychic / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

    Maybe Toxic should be first, but it is definitely better than Magic Coat and Hypnosis, they belong in AC at best. HP Rock is required to be effective, it takes on Jynx and Charizard! Psychic is handy to hit all the rock resists, but it isnt nearly as important to the set functioning
  9. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges do you know what a slave boy is
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    Implemented the changes of Raseri and placed Toxic before Psychic.
  10. Alonsoforever

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    252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lunatone: 143-169 (41.56 - 49.12%) -- 80.08% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Hmmm, if Charizard predicts it coming, it 2HKOes it with HP Grass most of the time, so I wouldn't say it's such a great check to Charizard, it's good, of course, but it should be noted that Charizard can break through Lunatone after some prior damage.

    Also, Fire Blast + HP Grass does a minimum of 67.72 % of damage, so if Lunatone is not at full health, it suffers quite some damage.
  11. tennisace

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    You'll notice that the Max is less than Moonlight + Leftovers recovery, meaning Lunatone will win barring crits. Any pokemon can break through any other pokemon given enough prior damage; the only time it's mentioned in an analysis is if it affects ohkos/2hkos.
  12. Alonsoforever

    Alonsoforever

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    You are right, I am sorry, I forgot to add Leftovers to the calc, with lefties:

    252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lunatone: 143-169 (41.56 - 49.12%) -- 24.61% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Sorry again.
  13. tennisace

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    [​IMG]
    1/3 looks good 2 me
  14. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    expand checks and counters a bit. Mention that Lunatone's physical defence is pretty bad( especially for a rock type) and that it can be easily exploited. Otherwise 2/3
  15. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges do you know what a slave boy is
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    Written up.
  16. Hollywood

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    SteelEdges

    The Overview is still too nice about Lunatone. Mention that its typing means that—just like a lot of the best Jynx checks—Lunatone is easy to Pursuit trap by Skuntank/Liepard. Also mention that it's one of the few Rock-types that can do little to nothing in trying to check Normal- and Flying-types, meaning that you might have to stack weaknesses in order to keep them in check.

    You need to expand on partners in the Additional Comments of both sets. Right now, there are no specific partners mentioned for either. What synergizes well with defensive Lunatone? What does offensive Lunatone struggle to beat? What Pokemon can beat the things that it can't? Does it need Heal Bell support, Wish support, any other kind of support? What Pokemon can make use of Baton Pass'd Speed boosts? You should have at least three to four sentences for both sets about partners for Lunatone. You should also explain why the offensive set is only running 248 Speed, which is of course because it needs that much to outspeed Scarf Jynx after a Rock Polish. Are there any additional items that could be good for the Rock Polish set? Loads of information you can still include.

    In Additional Comments for the Defensive set, why is Earth Power underwhelming?

    Add line breaks after [SET COMMENTS] [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] and [OTHER OPTIONS], and Other Options should not be fully capitalized.

    Checks and Counters only has a couple sentences and could use a lot more information. What beats both sets? What beats each specific set? Are there any specific strategies that make it hard for Lunatone? Lots of stuff you could talk about here too. :)

    Get a hold of me if you want any help on any of these things. I tried to let you know what kinds of things you could still include without directly giving them to you so that you can still figure out how to do all this on your own, but if you need clarification or anything, don't hesitate to ask.
  17. SteelEdges

    SteelEdges do you know what a slave boy is
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    Will finish this up tonight.
  18. Soulgazer

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    Small nitpick: add <p> at the start of a paragraph and </p> at the end of one, without space between them and the first word!
    Celever likes this.
  19. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
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    Bump, this hasn't been active in 2+ weeks and SteelEdges hasn't logged on in a week.
  20. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    If anyone is interested in taking this over and push it through QC and GP, post here please.
  21. scorpdestroyer

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    I'll take it over, might have to rewrite some stuff though since it's still too nice to Lunatone imo
  22. Raseri

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    alright scorpdestroyer, make a new thread whenever you're ready. Keep both sets though.
  23. scorpdestroyer

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    you can move this now, new thread

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