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Machamp (BW2 Revamp) - Send to Archive Please

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Alfalfa, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. Alfalfa


    Aug 31, 2012

    *Its dominating days in DPP are gone
    *It has become more and more niche as new threats have arrived, like Terrakion, Keldeo, Landorus-T, etc.
    *Landorus-T, Machamp's worst nightmare, has become very common in OU
    *Average bulk
    *Only Fighting type with 100% accurate DynamicPunch
    *Can annoy unprepared teams

    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: DynamicPunch
    move 3: Payback
    move 4: Ice Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: No Guard
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [Set Comments]
    *Substitute is Machamp's best set at competing in OU. Sub blocks status, and allows Machamp to take a powerful hit
    *DynamicPunch is the only STAB Machamp should be using
    *Payback hits Jellicent
    *Ice Punch hits Gliscor, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Dragons
    *Really annoying if opponent lacks an appropriate check to Machamp like Breloom or Sableye

    [Additional Comments]
    *EVs allow Machamp to outspeed Blissey, but be outsped by Jellicent so Machamp can get 100 BP on Payback. Maximize attack and HP
    *Entry hazards are annoying as hell. Forretress can spin and lay down hazards of Machamp's own, whereas Starmie can KO Skarmory and Landorus-T
    *Breloom is a pain in the neck, as its STAB Bullet Seed will send Machamp to hell and back. Celebi and Skarmory can wall Breloom
    *Entry hazards make Machamp even more annoying, as hazards + DynamicPunch are not fun to stomach. Skarmory, Forretress, Celebi, Landorus-T, etc.
    *Skarmory, Forretress, and Landorus-T are annoying to Machamp; Magnezone can trap and KO Skarm and Forry, whereas a fast pokemon with an Ice-type move, like HP Ice Alakazam or Ice Beam Starmie, can KO Landy-T

    [Other Options]
    *Bullet Punch is weak without STAB
    *Stone Edge for Gyarados
    *Fire Punch and Thunder Punch
    *Bulk Up better left to Conkeldurr
    *Other Fighting STABs, like Cross Chop and Close Combat, do not utilize the main reason to use Machamp: 100% confusion chance
    *Guts better left to Conkeldurr
    *Earthquake hits Toxicroak
    *Choice Band, but Machamp really wants to switch moves

    [Checks and Counters]
    *Landorus-T is Machamp's worst nightmare; although it is 2HKOd by Ice Punch, its Indimidate drops Machamp's attack a stage
    *Bulky Gyarados is also a pain
    *Skarmory and Forretress wall Machamp
    *Breloom cannot switch into Machamp, but its STAB Bullet Seed will annihilate it
    *Sableye is immune to DynamicPunch, is neutral to Payback, can break its Substitute with Night Shade, and then can abuse No Guard with a priority 100% Will-O-Wisp
    *Entry hazards
    *Sand and hail
  2. shrang

    shrang AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2009
    I'm interested in why I should use Machamp over the long list of other Fighting-types in OU. Machamp was rejected in the past, so unless you provide very compelling evidence on why it is any different now, it's just going to be rejected again. I do remember back in BW, I still use Machamp sometimes so I can use Ice Punch to kill off Gliscor quickly, but Conkeldurr got Ice Punch in BW2, so Machamp has lost that niche too. Why should I use this over Conkeldurr? Before you say "100% Dynamicpunch", you're going to have to explain to me why that is so important that I should sacrifice better stats in Conkeldurr or any other Fighting-type in the tier.
  3. Fuzznip

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 3, 2009
    I agree with what shrang's said. Machamp is simply outclassed by every other OU Fighting-type. The Overview that you've written emphasizes this even further. Let's break it down:

    "Its dominating days in DPP are gone" -- Exactly. Machamp was once a decent threat within OU, but the metagame has changed enough for it to become severely outclassed by its Fighting-type counterparts, specifically Conkeldurr.

    "It has become more and more niche as new threats have arrived, like Terrakion, Keldeo, Landorus-T, etc." -- Niche in what way? What does Machamp do to Terrakion, Keldeo, and Landorus-T that Conkeldurr does not? Machamp is still slaughtered by their appropriate STAB attacks, while Conkeldurr is equipped with tools to make these threats more easier to handle, most notably Bulk Up.

    "Landorus-T, Machamp's worst nightmare, has become very common in OU" -- Conkeldurr has a far better chance at besting Landorus-T than Machamp does, just so you're aware. Conkeldurr has base 105 HP and 95 Defense, whereas Machamp has base 90 HP and 80 Defense (much lower).

    "Average bulk" -- All Machamp has going for it is having 20 base Special Defense more than Conkeldurr, but this doesn't even matter with the Hydro Pump/Draco Meteor/Psyshock spam going on. Conkeldurr's bulk is more meaningful.

    "Only Fighting type with 100% accurate DynamicPunch" -- This is true, but DynamicPunch can only get you so far within this metagame. Tons of Pokemon that resist it or are immune to it exist, and you can only use it 8 times max. Also, No Guard isn't an ability that Machamp only benefits from, it benefits the opponent as well. This makes 100% accurate Will-O-Wisps, Hydro Pumps, Draco Meteors, and Hurricanes, among other dangerous inaccurate moves.

    "Can annoy unprepared teams" -- This isn't even a reason to use Machamp. Literally anything can annoy unprepared teams. I'd say Conkeldurr gives teams more issues than Machamp ever would due to the various threatening, effective sets it can run.

    Machamp is a cool Pokemon and all, but it needs another set of arms if it wants to contend with the beast that is Conkeldurr.
    FLCL likes this.
  4. dice


    Feb 24, 2012
    qc rejected
  5. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Persona 5
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    Aug 18, 2009
    QC Rejected (3/3)

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