Magnezone (Full Revamp) +

Syberia

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IMO, if you're going to be using Explosion, you're better off going with a Hasty/Mild nature. Explosion off of 158 attack really isn't going to be doing much.

Also, is Toxic really deserving of a slot on a revenge-killing set? Especially one that locks you into a move?
 

Hipmonlee

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I dont think rain dance deserves its own set tbh, it is fine in other options. Also HP water is pretty useless on it even with the boost.. If a ground type comes out you are probably better off switching to a water type.

But yeah, basically Rain Dance doesnt benefit Magnezone in any worthwhile way. You are basically only using it to set up other pokemon and so it isnt worth it being mentioned in this analysis. If anything it could be mentioned in Ludicolos analysis or something..

Unless you can come up with a reason you would use rain dance just to benefit Magnezone itself. But that seems like a pretty lame set to me.

Have a nice day.
 

maddog

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I dont think rain dance deserves its own set tbh, it is fine in other options. Also HP water is pretty useless on it even with the boost.. If a ground type comes out you are probably better off switching to a water type.

But yeah, basically Rain Dance doesnt benefit Magnezone in any worthwhile way. You are basically only using it to set up other pokemon and so it isnt worth it being mentioned in this analysis. If anything it could be mentioned in Ludicolos analysis or something..

Unless you can come up with a reason you would use rain dance just to benefit Magnezone itself. But that seems like a pretty lame set to me.

Have a nice day.
Actually Hip, I've been testing it, and I can safely say.... you're absolutely right. It's going in Other Options.
 

maddog

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This is starting to get closer to being done, any other suggestions / comments are welcome.

Also, I wasn't sure to do with Other Options and the Discharge and Hidden Power sections. My instinct was to combine them into a massive Other Options, but I decided to keep the Hidden Power section intact after seeing HOW massive it really was without it. Discharge was mentioned in Other Options and not in its own section though. Any thoughts?
 

cim

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Discharge doesn't need its own section on a Pokémon that no one plays defensively.
 

Venom

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I also disagree with Toxic being there, I don't think its viable enough to be in a Choice Scarf set to be honest, I would just make a comment about how Toxic can be useful at times, but I don't see it viable enough to have Toxic on the set slashed on itself.

<p>The minimum Speed Magnezone should ever run is 177, which is enough to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory. This requires 84 EVs when using a neutral nature. The next significant benchmark would be to run 181 Speed, which requires 100 Speed EVs if using a neutral Speed nature, to outrun some bulkier versions of Scizor. 190 Speed allows you to best Heatran that don't invest in Speed. Using a Timid nature with 184 Speed EVs edges out Adamant Tyranitar, but it is often better to use a Timid nature with 216 EVs in order to also beat Adamant Scizor and defensive Gliscor. Max Speed with a Timid nature beats Adamant Metagross and Adamant Breloom by 1 point.</p>
<p>Putting a Choice Scarf on Magnezone solves many Speed issues that it has; with a Choice Scarf and the given EVs, Magnezone reaches a respectable 358 Speed. The Speed boost allows Magnezone to switch into Gengar's Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, or Hidden Power Ice, out speed it, and then strike back with a STAB Thunderbolt. This particular Magnezone also has the benefit of outpacing (sounds better) Gyarados and Salamence before a Dragon Dance. Perhaps the most important advantage of this set is that it outspeeds every Steel without a Choice Scarf, including Sword Dance Lucario and all verisons of Scizor.</p>
ps: ctrl + f type, you will notice a lot of "Ground types" that should be "Ground-types" and a lot more

pss; get on AIM lol
 

cim

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Yeah, Toxic is pretty lame on the Scarf set honestly as it's basically only for Blissey who has Natural Cure anyway... Who else would you use it on?
 
[SET]
name: Steel Killer
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Magnet Rise
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is particularly good at taking out Bronzong and Metagross, but it is equally effective at beating many other Steels out as well. Magnet Rise protects against both of their Earthquakes, and Substitute helps protect you from their other attacks such as Hypnosis or Explosion. Substitute also makes revenge killing Magnezone a much more difficult task. This
Magnezone
can also switch in and attempt to counter Scizor, but the fact that Scizor is usually faster than Magnezone unless it invests heavily in Speed- and that most Scizor pack Fighting attacks- makes this a risky option. Hidden Power Ice destroys Salamence and offers great coverage when combined with Thunderbolt. With Hidden Power Grass, Swampert and Rhyperior won't be able to damage you easily while you do heavy damage to them. These options are extremely effective on this set in particular, considering Magnet Rise helps Magnezone avoid an Earthquake.</p>

<p>Attempting to switch into Metagross, however, can also be pretty risky, even with Magnet Rise. You have to switch in against it safely to begin with, and on top of that, you need to be faster to be able to avoid Earthquake. Keep in mind that Metagross has 10 more base Speed than Magnezone, which it can easily use to its advantage in this situation. However, many Metagross use Choice items, so if you get in on a Meteor Mash or a ThunderPunch, their Metagross is essentially dead. Be wary of Trick though.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Flash Cannon
move 4: Toxic / Explosion / Signal Beam
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Putting a Choice Scarf on Magnezone solves many Speed issues that it has; with a Choice Scarf and the given EVs, Magnezone reaches a respectable 358 Speed. The Speed boost allows Magnezone to switch into Gengar's Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, or Hidden Power Ice, outspeed it, and then strike back with a STAB Thunderbolt. This particular Magnezone also has the benefit of outspeeding Gyarados and Salamence before a Dragon Dance. Perhaps the most important advantage of this set is that it outspeeds every Steel without a Choice Scarf, including Sword Dance Lucario and all versions of Scizor.</p>

<p>Thunderbolt is Magnezone's main form of attack. Hidden Power Fire allows Magnezone to deal good damage all kinds of steels and scores a OHKO on all but the bulkiest of Scizor that invests in HP and Special Defense. It also does a respectable 72.60% - 86.12% to sweeper Lucario. Thunderbolt (omit does) actually outdamages Hidden Power Fire by a little against most steels, but locking yourself into an Electric move could be suicidal if your opponent has Dugtrio waiting in the wings. Hidden Power Ice is another effective choice on this set that allows Magnezone to revenge kill Outrage users effectively. Magnezone can take a Dragon Danced Life Orb Outrage and survive, even without Defense EVs. Thunderbolt also scores a 2HKO on most Salamence, but the OHKO provided by Hidden Power Ice (i removed ohko here) is particularly useful against CB Salamence, which this Magnezone can outspeed and kill before taking any damage, assuming Salamence doesn't switch out (or can't, as the case may be). If you want to keep Hidden Power Fire to kill Scizor, use Explosion in the fourth slot to OHKO Salamence and other Outrage users at the cost of Magnezone's life. If Salamence is faster than Magezone and you take an Outrage, Magnezone will be so close to fainting that it might be worth it just to explode.</p>

<p>Flash Cannon hits opposing Ground types for neutral damage and is Magnezone's best option against Tyranitar. Flash Cannon is also useful for Mamoswine, and it give Magnezone another STAB option to use off base 130 Special Attack. In the forth slot, Toxic helps wear down counters such as Cresselia and Swampert, and is a good option for crippling sweepers that Magnezone could not otherwise hit. Explosion is useful for taking out key threats and can be used as a powerful last resort, but with a negative attack nature and no Attack EVs, it won't even come close to beating Blissey. If she uses Softboiled after you explode on her, you will have lost Magezone for no reason. Signal Beam is also worth considering to hit Celebi for a OHKO (who would otherwise wall this set), but outside of that it has little use. In a fourth slot that is mostly filler (omit though), Signal Beam is a good option because it will have some use, and is probably best used if you choose Hidden Power Ice in the second slot.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Flash Cannon
move 4: Explosion
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 172 Atk / 252 SpA / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Whereas the Choice Scarf set placed emphasis on revenge killing, this set puts emphasis on power and prediction, while still keeping the ability to trap Steels. Magnezone has the highest Special Attack out of all the Electrics, and this set takes full advantage of that fact. Thunderbolt destroys anything that doesn't resist it or isn't a dedicated Special Wall. For example, a Timid Choice Specs Thunderbolt deals 83.43% - 98.49% to a minimum HP/ minimum Special Defense Salamence, killing it if it has taken any damage, or switched into Stealth Rock. This alone makes Hidden Power Grass the best option on this set to OHKO Swampert and Rhyperior. Flash Cannon is once again an useful STAB option, and Explosion takes out threats. If you want, you can use a -Defense or -Special Defense nature in order to power up Explosion against the likes of Blissey.</p>

<p>Modest is the first choice in nature to deal as much damage as possible with Magnezone's sky high Special Attack. A Modest nature also grants a guaranteed OHKO on Salamence, as the previous calculation assumed a Timid nature. If you choose to use a Timid nature, use 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe for your EV spread. This allows Magnezone to reach 240 Speed, besting Adamant Scizor all of the time, and it also beats Adamant Metagross by a single point. Speaking of Scizor, it is KOed by a Timid Thunderbolt if it has taken any previous damage.</p>

[SET]
name: All Out Attacker
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Flash Cannon / Magnet Rise
move 4: Explosion / Metal Sound
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild
evs: 88 HP / 88 Atk / 248 SpA / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is another set that takes full advantage of Magnezone's high Special Attack, combined with the ability to switch attacks thanks to Life Orb. As always, Flash Cannon offers a strong secondary STAB attack. Metal Sound will allow you to 2HKO Blissey with Thunderbolt if you carry Life Orb, while the Blissey can do little back. Magnet Rise is useful should a Ground type switch in, and fools your opponent into thinking you are using the Steel Killer set. As most rely on Earthquake to beat Magnezone, you can render them helpless to stop you in a lot of instances.</p>

<p>Explosion is a great move on this set, as a Life Orb Mild Explosion will OHKO a Calm Blissey 100% of the time, and most other threats that come in and try to stop you.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]

<p>Thunder Wave makes up for Magnezone's poor Speed, and works well with Substitute. You can set up Substitutes against a paralyzed Pokémon, and attack safely when it is Fully Paralyzed. Having a Substitute still intact after you KO a Pokémon will prevent an easy chance for Heatran or Infernape to switch in against you.</p>

<p>Speaking of paralysis, Discharge can be used over Thunderbolt on most sets for the higher paralysis rate, at the cost of some power. Magnezone is a Pokémon with impressive Special Attack, but it also has a very good defensive typing and good defensive stats to boot. A defensive Pokémon has the ability to attack more times, allowing them more chances at paralysis. The paralysis chance can also thwart Pokémon trying to take advantage of the lower base power, as there will always be a higher risk associated with switching in. Basically, the choice between Thunderbolt and Discharge comes down to preference; do you want to deal as much damage as possible as quickly as you can, or have a greater chance to cripple an enemy Pokémon with paralysis?</p>

<p>Magenzone has a unique defensive typing, so a Rest / Sleep Talk set can work well. (removed "The problem with") Magnezone's typing makes it great to switch into threats and utilizes its many resistances, but its weaknesses to common types such as Ground and Fighting mean that Magnezone can't stall for long, which means it won't often have enough time to use a Rest / Sleep Talk well. You may prefer to use Wish support from the likes of Vaporeon or Jirachi if you plan on using its resistances often than trying to Sleep Talk.</p>

<p>Magnezone has many support options it can use effectively. Rain Dance is a good choice, and it allows Magnezone to use its powerful Thunder while eliminating its Fire weakness at the same time. However, the benefits of Rain Dance end there for it, and it would best be used on a dedicated Rain Dance team. Reflect and Light Screen can be used separately or together to help reduce the damage that certain threats would do to your team. If you choose to both Light Screen and Reflect on the same set consider Light Clay as your item in order have the screens last 8 turns instead of 5. Damp Rock has the same purpose as Light Clay on a Rain Dance set.</p>

<p>Mirror Coat can be a nasty surprise to Special Attackers.</p>

<p>Signal Beam hits Celebi hard, but most of the other targets that Signal Beam would hit are hit harder by Thunderbolt or Flash Cannon. Charge Beam gives Magnezone a way to boost its already impressive Special Attack</p>

<p>As mentioned on the Choice Scarf set, Toxic can help wear down many of Magnezone's counters, especially Ground types. Protect can be used with Toxic to allow you to recover HP with Leftovers while your opponent's HP is slowly worn down from Toxic damage.</p>

[Hidden Power]

<p>There are many Hidden Power types that Magnezone can use well. Most sets give the option of choosing between Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Grass. One gives coverage against Gliscor and Grass-types, and the other hits Swampert and Rhyperior harder than any other move. Keep in mind that Flash Cannon will still cover Rhyperior when combined with Hidden Power Ice, but you won't have anything to hit Swampert with. With Hidden Power Grass, Flash Cannon still hits Gliscor and Grass types Hard, but not as hard as Hidden Power Ice would. Hidden Power Fire can OHKO Scizor and Forretress while hurting other Steel-types. It works best on the Choice Scarf set and is a decent option on the Steel Killer. Hidden Power Ground can also be used; it hits Electric-types such as Electivire super effective. It allows you to trap and kill opposing Magnezone and severely damage Heatran, depending on Special Defense investment. A Heatran with minimum HP and Special Defense investment is guaranteed to be OHKOed by Magnezone's Hidden Power Ground, so long as it is Modest and has 252 EVs invested in Special Attack. However, most Heatran will not be OHKOed, and often carry Choice Scarf to finish Magnezone off.</p>

[EVs]
<p>The minimum Speed Magnezone should ever run is 177, which is enough to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory. This requires 84 EVs when using a neutral nature. The next significant benchmark would be to run 181 Speed, which requires 100 Speed EVs if using a neutral speed nature, to outrun some bulkier versions of Scizor. 190 Speed allows you to best Heatran that don't invest in Speed. Using a Timid nature with 184 Speed EVs edges out Adamant Tyranitar, but it is often better to use a Timid nature with 216 EVs in order to also beat Adamant Scizor and defensive Gliscor. Max Speed with a Timid nature beats Adamant Metagross and Adamant Breloom by 1 point.</p>

<p>Any set with Explosion could have any attack up to max, for a better chance to OHKO Blissey. 224 Attack is a guaranteed KO on Blissey if it has taken a max Special Attack Thunderbolt already. 232 Attack guarantees the KO after a max Special Attack Discharge. When factoring in sandstorm, only 208 Attack with Thunderbolt, or 216 with Discharge is needed. If you have Life Orb equipped, you only need 199 Attack to guarantee an OHKO. A Mild or Hasty nature is a good idea to deal more damage with Explosion, as there is often not enough power in 158 Attack to deal as much damage as you might need, but it is hard to reduce those great Defenses to do that.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Magnezone has a unique defensive typing, Electric / Steel, which grants it resistances to Dragon, Steel, Bug, Normal, Flying, Rock and the Boltbeam combination. It base 130 Special Attack is the highest out of all the Electrics, which means it can afford to invest in those great 70 / 115 / 90 Defenses, or hit extremely hard with a Choice Specs set. But, most importantly, its ability Magnet Pull allows it to trap every Steel in the game. The more Steels that your opponent packs to make sure that Salamence can't Outrage their entire team is just more targets for Magnezone to trap and kill. Magnezone is still just a hair short of being a genuine standard though. If it still had Magneton's Speed, or if its Special Defense was switched with its Defense, it would be a staple. It will remain popular as long as people don't put Shed Shells on their Steels, which is always a check in case Magnezone does become too common. Magnezone is a great improvement over Magneton overall, as Magnezone is no longer the dead weight Magneton was if it couldn't trap Skarmory.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Dugtrio can trap and OHKO Magnezone unless it carries Shuca Berry and quite a bit of defense, or if Magnezone used Magnet Rise before Dugtrio can switch in.</p>

<p>Electivire absorbs Magnezone's Electric attacks and can OHKO with Earthquake or 2HKO comfortably with Cross Chop if you have the Steel Trapper set EVs, otherwise it may OHKO. Jolteon is the same way, although its lower defenses mean that Magnezone's Hidden Power choice will hurt more. The Rotom formes are good counters as they resist Thunderbolt and aren't weak to any Hidden Powers Magnezone is likely to use, but special mention goes to Rotom-H, which can KO with Overheat. Lanturn also absorbs Hidden Power Ice, (omit Magnezone's) Thunderbolts, and resists all its other common attacks.</p>

<p>Gliscor, Swampert, or Rhyperior can counter it depending on what Hidden Power you use—as can most Ground types. Zapdos despises switching into Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice often, but Heat Wave can at least 2HKO most Magnezone. Heatran is the one Steel that Magnezone fears: most Heatran carry Choice Scarfs and easily KO with Fire Blast</p>

<p>Blissey and Snorlax are reasonable counters to any set without Explosion.</p>
Corrections (and some comments) in bold. Just a few spelling mistakes, but other than that, nice write up!

Just 1 question though: for the Scarf Magnezone, would it be ok to use 232 Speed EVs (outspeeds Gengar by a point) or 240 Speed EVs (outspeeds modest Shaymin S by a point)?
 

tennisace

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Just 1 question though: for the Scarf Magnezone, would it be ok to use 232 Speed EVs (outspeeds Gengar by a point) or 240 Speed EVs (outspeeds modest Shaymin S by a point)?
What exactly would you gain with the extra EVs, not to mention that Shaymin-S is uber for the time being and is almost always Timid.
 

cim

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Agreeing on axing Rain Dance. Magnezone makes a pretty bad transition Pokémon as most of the switch-ins to it (Bulky Grounds) severely hurt Rain Dance sweepers on the switch like Kabutops and Kingdra with STAB EQs. His Explosion is pretty weak and he's also fairly slow. Bronzong does the same thing way better.
 

maddog

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Corrections (and some comments) in bold. Just a few spelling mistakes, but other than that, nice write up!

Just 1 question though: for the Scarf Magnezone, would it be ok to use 232 Speed EVs (outspeeds Gengar by a point) or 240 Speed EVs (outspeeds modest Shaymin S by a point)?
Thanks for the corrections. I'll work them in soon. The reason I didn't use just 232 or 240 was because the HP EVs were little benefit to me, and I would just rather win speed ties with people that think they are faster than Gengar and what not.
People said:
Toxic is bad
I'll drop in down to set comments. The reason I have it on there is so you can hit sweepers that you couldn't hit otherwise. Considering that Magnezone's moveset doesn't miss that many Pokes, it may seem like a poor option. It really isn't though, its nice to hit CM LO cune if I have no other option and other sweepers I can't really deal with on my team. It's not there for Blissey lol.
Chris said:
Agreeing on axing Rain Dance. Magnezone makes a pretty bad transition Pokémon as most of the switch-ins to it (Bulky Grounds) severely hurt Rain Dance sweepers on the switch like Kabutops and Kingdra with STAB EQs. His Explosion is pretty weak and he's also fairly slow. Bronzong does the same thing way better.
I noticed this after testing it lol. I put it down in set comments.
Chris said:
Discharge doesn't need its own section on a Pokémon that no one plays defensively.
Works for me. I won't (and didn't) give it its own section.
 
OK, in reading over this... I think Specs / Steel Killer Magnezone needs a lot more speed, and probably should be Timid anyway because it can outspeed and KO Scizor. 84 Speed EVs just doesn't cut it anymore. And not just for Scizor, it helps with things like Bold Suicune and getting extra hits in on Cresselia, Tyranitar, Breloom, and various others.

Also, is there going to be any mention of his little bro, Magneton? I actually tested out Magnezone sets on Magneton and you'd be surprised. For starters, Magneton can outspeed a +1 Gyarados after DD and OHKO with Thunderbolt for Scarf which is something Zone can't do. It can run Modest and still outspeed Scizor, granting you more special attack (558 RRC), which gives you an 80% chance to OHKO Max HP Scizor with Stealth Rock... It may sound funny, but Magneton fairs just as well as his big bro if your trying to accomplish the same thing...
 

Syberia

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I'll drop in down to set comments. The reason I have it on there is so you can hit sweepers that you couldn't hit otherwise. Considering that Magnezone's moveset doesn't miss that many Pokes, it may seem like a poor option. It really isn't though, its nice to hit CM LO cune if I have no other option and other sweepers I can't really deal with on my team. It's not there for Blissey lol.
Explosion sounds like it does that too, and doesn't force you to sit there and stall with something until poison takes its toll.

Also, is there going to be any mention of his little bro, Magneton? I actually tested out Magnezone sets on Magneton and you'd be surprised. For starters, Magneton can outspeed a +1 Gyarados after DD and OHKO with Thunderbolt for Scarf which is something Zone can't do. It can run Modest and still outspeed Scizor, granting you more special attack (558 RRC), which gives you an 80% chance to OHKO Max HP Scizor with Stealth Rock... It may sound funny, but Magneton fairs just as well as his big bro if your trying to accomplish the same thing...
It really struggles to take any type of hit though, while one of Magnezone's strengths is being able to actually take hits thanks to 13 resistances and good defenses, even with no EV investment. But I will say, though, that as a pure revenge-killer, the extra speed can be helpful, especially with a scarf.
 

Darkmalice

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OK, in reading over this... I think Specs / Steel Killer Magnezone needs a lot more speed, and probably should be Timid anyway because it can outspeed and KO Scizor. 84 Speed EVs just doesn't cut it anymore. And not just for Scizor, it helps with things like Bold Suicune and getting extra hits in on Cresselia, Tyranitar, Breloom, and various others.
If Steel Killer Magnezone wants enough speed to outrun Scizor, it should have HP Fire. Otherwise, there is little point in outrunning it, for it won't do enough damage with Thunderbolt, and it will be smashed by Brick Break / Superpower, and it might as well be Modest.


Also, is there going to be any mention of his little bro, Magneton? I actually tested out Magnezone sets on Magneton and you'd be surprised. For starters, Magneton can outspeed a +1 Gyarados after DD and OHKO with Thunderbolt for Scarf which is something Zone can't do. It can run Modest and still outspeed Scizor, granting you more special attack (558 RRC), which gives you an 80% chance to OHKO Max HP Scizor with Stealth Rock... It may sound funny, but Magneton fairs just as well as his big bro if your trying to accomplish the same thing...
I dont feel there's a need for that RL. Rather, Magnezone should be mentioned in Magneton's analysis (and it already is), as Magnezone is superior in everyway except for Speed. However, your theorymon should definitely be included in Magneton's analysis.
 

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