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Making a Splash in OU

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by xSlowkingx, Jan 17, 2012.

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  1. xSlowkingx

    xSlowkingx

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Changes will be in Blue and Red.
    Starting Team (open)
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    I took a dare one of my fellow friends gave me. Make a team with a Pokemon Sprite Generator. This was the result from generating one OU-UU Pokemon at a time. When I looked at it some more it had some type of promise. It had a spinner, spin blocker, and three potential sweepers. A good start so far!
    Team Building Process (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After slightly testing it, I saw Raikou wasn't really helping the team, but I wanted to keep the synergy within the team. I chose a Special Orientated Expert Belt Electivire. I also switch the DD mence to a Mixmence. So far so good.
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    I really liked the Electivire, and it pulled of some sweeping. But, after more battles, I saw that starmie wasn't a very good lure to Electivire. Seeing as how starmie isn't only weak to electric. I decided to put in Gyarados. Now I can surely differentiate whether or not an electric or rock attack is coming to predict on, but I also got rid of my spinner and added another rocks weak pokemon...

    [​IMG]
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    Wow, was Gyarados a fantastic sweeper. It felt like it really suited me. So, next I saw Spiritomb wasn't holding its own with the team, and since I have two spin blockers, I replaced him with a Spinner. Forretress. It can lay down SR and both types of spikes. Plus, Rapid Spin.
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    Next, I felt like Cobalion wasn't doing a good enough job, and I felt as though I can't send in every threatened attack to Forretress. So, I replaced my Cobalion with Heatran. Heatran can take any fire type attack aimed at Forretress. I also had a reliable Stealth Rocks Layer, and I gave the other entry hazards to Forretress.
    [​IMG]
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    After testing, and some research, I found there was a better overall electric absorber, and Special Attacker, Jolteon. With timid and Choice Specs, it's speed and special attack reach enormous heights. It also keeps my momentum going on the team with a specs Volt Switch.

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    After that last testing I decided I lacked a revenge killer, and Salamence wasn't really working out right. The only thing it was doing was giving me another Intimidate Pokemon. So, I added a Scarfed Landorus. It added a solid revenge killer, and it gives me a version of Volt-Turn not commonly seen.

    [​IMG]
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    After looking at the team for a while, I saw my two major sweepers, Jolteon, and Gyarados, can really benefit from rain. So, I plopped Politoed in place of Heatran. Then, I replaced Forretress for Ferrothorn. It does the same job minus the rapid spinning. This posed a problem for my Gyarados. I had to change that.

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    Strange how things come back in the weirdest ways. So once again I added the Rain abusing Rapid Spinning Torrent, Starmie. With this team i have made it the highest I've ever peaked, even though a lot of people have gotten higher.
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    After yet more testing, and some helpful tips from the raters below, I noticed how I don't handle DD Terrakion that well. To solve this I added Defensive Celebi, and Bulky SD Scizor. These two help so much against some of my main threats like Reuniclus and Terrakion. Unfortunately this opened me with a Ghost or Dark weakness and only one resist. So next I found a new spinner.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After this addition, my team seemed so much better. A reliable rapid spinner, plus toxic spikes to help win weather wars. It also had great synergy with celebi and got rid of those weaknesses i had, but added a ground weakness which I only had two switch ins. Also Jolteon was kind of lagging the team behind because the only electric attacks aimed are from Rotom-W.
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    Next, I added Gastrodon. A Specd Gastrodon. The ultimate Rotom-W counter in my eyes. The only attack Rotom-W can carry that hurts me is Hidden Power Ice, which doesn't hurt that much. then go out on my prediction and strike! After all of these additions, I feel this has been my team at its finest. So, without further ado, the team!



    [​IMG]

    Politoed (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Hypnosis
    - Ice Beam
    - Scald
    - Perish Song


    Politoed. What other weather inducer can double status inflict and stop sweeps? Oh wait, Ninetales. But, with this team, Politoed is the preferred weather of choice. It lets my pokemon have 100% accurate Thunder, Boosts my water type moves, and halves any fire attacks! I enjoy using the Bulky Toed over the Choiced ones because it in general lasts longer in my opinion. Ice Beam is there to hit Dragon types from continuing its sweep. A CB / +1 max attack Adamant Dragonite does Max: 337 Hp, Avg: 310 Hp, Min: 286 Hp. This means if something is killed by outrage I can send in full health politoed to take a hit and bounce back an ice beam even after Stealth Rocks damage.(I'm pretty sure) Hypnosis is there to cripple one of my opponents Pokemon because nobody like a sleeping Pokemon. Scald for my main STAB move. And, last but not least, Perish Song. I never understood how this move worked until it saved me in a match one time. It helps me stop enemy Pokemon from sweeping, or, at least, sweeping my whole team. only down side to using rain is that any water attacks aimed at my Volt-Turn combo OHKOs them to no end.


    [​IMG]

    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce


    Wow, is this Pokemon underestimated. Once i get my opponent with an intimidate and get a sub up, its sweeping time. After +2 a STAB Waterfall can KO a lot of pokemon that would otherwise switch in, take the hit, and KO Gyarados in return. These Pokemon barring Slowbro, Jellicent, Defensive Politoed, etc. Gyarados has been my favorite sweeper since 4th gen, so, why not use him in 5th gen. Gyarados really enjoys to lure in electric type moves for Jolteon, Landorus or Ferrothorn to eat up. This set gets dominated by people running two priority users. For example, Lucario and Dragonite. Both which can break my sub and KO me if played correctly. Sun doesn't really phase Gyarados if it is set up enough. Sandstorm poses as the hardest weather to set up on. With not being able to recover with leftovers really stinks, which, includes less Substitues. I was also thinking of changing the set to 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Speed Jolly with Moxie. So, Let me know what you think. If I run the Moxie set, then I lose the extra bulk, but gain enormous power. I'm in a real pickle for this decision. I was thinking of maybe replacing it with Dragonite?? Let me know what you think!!

    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure

    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Recover


    This Celebi is a power house. The given Evs allow me to live multiple physical attacks. Thunder Wave is there to Paralyze opponents for an easier time sweeping later in the game. Giga Drain is for stab and health recovery. Hidden Power Ice is there for a DD dragon check. Recover is there for long living. The reason I chose Celebi was to check my problem to Terrakion and DD dragons. Also it helps with the likes of Chlorophyll users by being able to take a fire type move in the rain and hitting back with a T-Wave and proceed to recover or switch. Celebi works really nicely with Tentacruel. The only moves that they don't cover are Dark and Ghost, but those can be covered by Scizor. The only problem with this set / team is that I lost my Stealth Rocks layer. Yes, Celebi can lay them, but it would interrupt it's purpose and set.



    [​IMG]

    Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician

    EVs: 248 HP / 96 Atk / 164 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost

    Scizor was placed here in place of Landorus, and what an improvement I've seen. This Guy can do serious damage after +2 / 4. He was put here to help my Terrakion problem, and if set up my Tornadus one. The Evs allow it to take a couple Sp.Atks while roosting its health back. It stops Latios' Draco Meteor in its tracks, and once It's at -2/-4, I can proceed to set up and sweep. Bullet Punch and Bug Bite are there for my main STAB moves. Bullet Punch also gives me priority on this team, which helps a lot! I was thinking of replacing Roost with Superpower for the Giant Base Fighting Move, which helps against the pesky Ferrothorns that give me trouble. So, let me know what you think!






    [​IMG]

    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish

    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin

    Tentacruel was placed over Starmie. It's synergy with Celebi is ridiculous. The only types they don't cover is Ghost and Dark, which Scizor can take plenty of. Starmie seemed to limit my amount of switch ins, and it was two frail even with Recover. With Tentacruel, I feel like I can switch it in a multitude of times. The Evs co-inside with Celebi's to complete the Defensive Synergy, since Celebi takes up the Physical side. Protect is there to scout my opponent and rack up Rain Dish + Leftovers Recovery. Toxic Spikes help me win Weather Wars(which my tenta gets rid of opponents t-spikes.). Scald is for STAB, Burn chance, and Rain Boost. Rapid Spin is to get those rocks out of there for Gyarados to come in and set up safely. It also feels like Tentacruel gave me more synergy with his addition, and it seems to last longer than starmie did.


    [​IMG]


    Gastrodon (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Storm Drain

    EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Earth Power
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Grass

    This guy is an absolute monster! Also, he throws people off guard, and punches holes in teams. If I get in a Storm Drain boost, my Sp.Atk racks up to 622. Which is more than enough to 2HKO most pokemon that don't resist one of my attacks. Evs let me survive some Special Attacks and bounce back some of my own. I will decide on what move I pick depending on what pokemon my opponent has left. Scald is there for STAB+Rain Boost+Possible Burn=You can't go wrong. Earth Power is there for another STAB attack that hits incoming Ferrothorn. Ice Beam hits pesky Tornadus, and other Dragons or Flyers. And Hidden Power Grass is there for hitting the likes of other Gastrodons, Swamperts, Quagsires, or Jellicents. I thought about Recover over Hidden Power Grass, but I tested it and I didn't seem to use it. I don't think I clicked it once actually. Tell me what you think!



    Potent Threats: (open)
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Life Orb Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    Now Checked by the combination of Celebi + Scizor.

    [​IMG]

    Reuniclus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    Checked by Scizor.
    [​IMG]

    Tornadus (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn
    Checked by Gastrodon or Scizor's Bullet punch if low enough.



    I have peaked 1202, points that is, on the smogon server, and would really enjoy getting higher so any help would be appreciated!^-^ ​
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Hey man, very nice team you have here so well done with that. You stated that you have problems with Terrakion and Reuniclus so id really like to you try Choice Band Scizor over Jolteon.

    Jolteon is a really excellent pokemon and its part of your combo with Gyarados, however, its performing a similar job to Landorus and I feel that Jolteon is slightly weaker than Landorus at checking Sun hence my suggestion for you to drop it.

    Choice Band Scizor combines well with Landorus as they can spam dual U-Turns to weaken the opposing team. Scizor also hammers Reuniclus with U-Turn, while threatening Terrakion and Tornados with a STAB Bullet Punch.

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Quick Attack
    - Superpower

    Even if you don't like Scizor, id prefer you to try a few cosmetic changes to the team. Ferrothorn could run 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Careful, as it lets it take those Special attacks a bit easier. For exmaple, Scarf Rotom W finds it a little trickier to break through your team is Ferrothorn is alive and the given EV spread helps with that.

    I also heavily advise that you run Hydro Pump on Starmie over Rapid Spin (since you state that you don't use Rapid Spin often). Starmie without a water move on a rain team I really wouldn't advise as it makes no sense. With Hydro Pump you get a 1.5 STAB boost, and then a LO boost and a Rain Boost as well. There really is little reason for you to not run it.
  3. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey man, nice team you've got started here

    As you've already stated, two of the major threats for your team are Tornadus and Terrakion (especially double dancer versions). However, the team also has a bit of trouble sponging hits from and beating Pokemon such as SubDD Dragonite and DD Haxorus, both of which can break past Ferrothorn pretty easily and then proceed to massacre your entire team. Your other major problems are Sun teams with Venusaur (who can basically force you to pivot around until you can safely switch in Politoad and heavily damage the team). Finally, as you also mentioned, CM and Offensive Trick Room Reuniclus are both rather threatening for your team.

    I personally think that Specially Defensive Jirachi with Stealth Rocks / Wish / Iron Head / Protect would be an excellent choice over Ferrothorn for your team. It gives you a really solid answer to both Reuniclus and Tornados, which is really important for the team. Jolteon also seems like it's not very important to the team - all it really does is hit stuff with Thunder once all the Ground-types are gone, but that doesn't really seem all that useful considering that your team can easily take advantage of the most common Ground-type in the tier (Gliscor) to set up with Gyarados. I think that replacing Jolteon with Choice Band Scizor with U-Turn/BulletPunch/QuickAttack/Superpower is a really good option for your team, as it gives you some extra insurance against Scarf and Double Dance Terrakion, while also helping you out a ton against Reuniclus. It also pairs very nicely with Gyarados, luring in things that it can set up on.

    Nice team, good luck teambuilding!

    edit: ninja'd by ginga, haha =p
  4. LUST

    LUST
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

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    Messages:
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    Hey

    Solid team bud. Like you've mentioned in your rate my team Terrakion, Reuniclus and Tornados give you trouble. I would recommend running Bulky Swords Dance Scizor over Jolteon. It is able to set up on many common threats in the metagame, including Ferrothorn, Reuniclus. Even with minimal Attack investment, Scizor's great base Attack stat allows it to deal out huge damage with Bullet Punch and Bug Bite. Swords Dance will boost Scizor's Attack to truly threatening levels, while the bulk this set enjoys will assure easy setup. Bullet Punch is the selling point of Scizor, its priority and tremendous power make it the main sweeping move. U-turn is there for scouting and bluffing a choice item which could come in handy for late game sweeping. The EVs provide Scizor incredible amount of bulk on both physical and special side. Special Defense evs allow him to tank hits from Reuniclus, Virizion, Gengar. While the rest of evs are placed in attack allowing Scizor to hit like a beast after the setup. Iron Plate is there to maximize the power of Bullet Punch with limited attack evs for revenge killing. You might not enjoy U-turn but if you use it to it's full potential the results will be surprising. Although Bug Bite gives Scizor another STAB option to add to its arsenal, and packs greater sheer power, letting Scizor handily deal with slower, bulky Pokemon. A spread with 252 HP | 96 Atk | 160 SDef with Adamant Nature, Iron Plate @ Swords Dance | U-Turn | Bullet Punch | Roost would fit in well. It revenges Terrakion, Tornados and Reuniclus effectively.

    In my opinion Politoed would appreciate Choice Specs more as it allows him to tear apart team with its deadly stabs. Hydro Pump is the primary stab which hits like a tank, Ice Beam allows Politoed to check opposing Dragons and mons who resist Hydro Pump, Focus Blast is useful for smashing Tyranitar which can give you the weather advantage, Hidden Power Grass is essential to decimate Gastrodon, Jellicent and Rotom-W. This mon can easily clear path for Gyarados to sweep successfully. Here's some calcs for Modest Politoed:
    Calcs (open)
    Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/4 Blissey: 40.5% - 47.9%
    Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/216 Scizor: 103.2% - 121.5%
    Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/252 Reuniclus: 101.9% - 120.1%
    Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/0 +1 Reuniclus: 67.8% - 79.9%
    Hydro Pump (rain) vs. 252/224+ Jirachi: 68.6% - 80.9%
    Hydro Pump (sun) vs. 0/4 Ninetales: 87.8% - 103.1%
    Hydro Pump (sandstorm) vs. 252/252+ Tyranitar: 59.9% - 71.3%

    This set works wonders with perfect predictions. So the Evs: 252 SpA | 252 Spe | 4 SpD with Modest or Timid Nature @ Hydro Pump | Hidden Power [Grass] | Ice Beam | Focus Blast should do some work. Starmie desperately needs Hydro Pump so I would replace Ice Beam for either Hydro Pump or Surf. By this change it can stand a chance against opposing Tyranitar and Fire mons and utlize it's primary stab move efficiently. Lastly run Thunder Wave over Protect on Ferrothorn, it will benefit you sweepers and will give them an upper edge for late game sweeping.
  5. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    On whether to use Protect or Thunder Wave on your Ferrothorn, I would stick with Protect. In my experience Protect makes from a great wall to an amazing wall. He going to be taking a lot of pressure on your team as the only defensive wall, and protect makes leech seed reliable. Plus, your team is very fast as is so it wouldn't really benefit from Thunder Wave.

    Surf>Ice Beam on Starmie, you have plenty of ways to deal with Dragons, especially with Landorus. Intimidate on Gyarados let's you keep your Sub intact and set up, so keep it.

    I would second the bulky SD Scizor over Jolteon suggestion that mostwanted made. However, in the team in its current state, it looks like you might have a lot of trouble with Ferrothorn. A spot that could have contention with SD Scizor is Choice Specs Magenezone over Jolteon. Spec Magnezone is one not to be trifled with in the rain because it goes from medicore in terms of power to holy shit. Thunder is a 2HKO on specially defennsive Jirachi! It has the same power as Latios' Draco Meteor but without the drops and a paralysis chance. He can 2HKO Ferrothorn with Hidden Power Fire in the rain. Volt Switch keeps the scouting role of Jolteon, except it is much more powerful.

    [pimg]467[/pimg]
    Magnezone @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Volt Switch
    - Flash Cannon
  6. xSlowkingx

    xSlowkingx

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Since all, or almost all, pretty much concluded that some form of scizor would be a good addition to this team. I'm going to test it out. Since I'm more familiar with CB Scizor, I will use that one first, and see if the team improves at all. And, wouldn't you know, while making this RMT, I was thinking to myself that this team was missing some priority. I was also thinking a Scizor @ LO -Swords Dance -Bug Bite -Bullet Punch -Superpower. Since it can set up against Ferro it'll sure have no problem taking it out, but tell me what you think...

    I will for sure test out a spec'd Toed after seeing those damage calcs, but, since i've used poli, I've always enjoyed the bulkier version. But, I'm willing to try anything.

    Thank you for your Rates and Suggestions, and Keep them coming!!:D
  7. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hi, got the request. Now, Protect on Ferrothorn instead of Thunder Wave is just an awful choice in general, even moreso for this team. First of all, your team doesn't carry Toxic Spikes, so the only thing you're using Protect for is to rack up Leech Seed damage. Not worth it IMO. However, Thunder Wave can help your team immensely. It paralyzes those annoying Scarfers, and since your team is very Offensively oriented, it can allow one of your sweepers, such as Starmie, outspeed something it normally wouldn't be able to, and KO. It also cripples the likes of Haxorus and Dragonite, who you wouldn't be able to touch with your current set. Impish over Relaxed, since you're not running Gyro Ball.

    I agree with ginganinja and Windsong about CB Scizor. Not only would this give you a check to Terrakion, Reuniclus, and other dangerous threats. It also gives you another check to DD Dragons, which you can never have too many of. I'd suggest Scald over Ice Beam on Starmie as well. Water+Electric provides just as good coverage as Ice+Electric, but Scald also has that great burn chance, and gets boosted by Rain to boot.

    I also suggest swapping Gyarados to a DD Taunt version. It ensures that you wont be phazed out or have hazards set up on you by annoying Pokes like Skarmory. This also allows Gyarados to shut down Bulk Up Breloom without resorting to Bounce. That way, you can safely run Stone Edge in place of Bounce. While this may seem trivial at first, it means your Gyarados can now reliably check Volcarona, which leads me to the next change.

    This team is weak to Rotom-W. Period. The only Pokemon who has a chance, Ferrothorn, is severely crippled by Will-O-Wisp, and will eventually succumb to burn damage as well. Every other Pokemon on the team loses one on one. Rain stall, as well, seems to bother your team a bit, as does Volt-turn. Bulk Up Breloom would be a great catch all solution to all these threats in place of Landorus. However, this would mean that you're relying only on Scizor to revenge DD Dragons, which is not a good thing. But still something worth looking into nonetheless.

    GL
    TLDR version (open)

    Thunder Wave>Protect on Ferrothorn
    pros: neuter opposing sweepers/ switch-ins, help your own sweepers sweep
    cons: I guess you can't rack up Leech Seed damage...

    CB Scizor>Jolteon
    pros: takes out Terrakion, Reuniclus, Tornadus, Dragonite, Salamence, Haxorus, and a plethora of other threats
    cons: no more electric immunity

    Taunt DD Gyarados>SubDD Gyarados
    pros: prevents pokes from setting up/ being annoying in general
    cons: can't prevent random scald burns

    Bulk Up Breloom>Landorus
    pros: checks Rotom-W, Volt-turn, Rain stall
    cons: lose electric immunity, and Scizor becomes sole way to revenge kill dragons

    Sets (open)

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce
    - Taunt

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 212 SpD / 60 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Bulk Up
    - Spore
    - Drain Punch
    - Seed Bomb
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Yea, mostwanted's Scizor suggestion is spot on. Scizor cannot only revenge check Tornadus, Terrakion, and Reuniclus, it also sets up on opposing Ferrothorn that can be a pest to your team. I would personally have Superpower for the awesome fighting coverage that the move provides, but Roost would help Scizor to stick around. Here's mostwanted's spread if you've missed it:

    Scizor @ Iron Plate | Technician
    Adamant | 248 HP / 96 Atk / 164 SpD
    Bullet Punch | U-turn | Swords Dance | Roost / Superpower


    I want to keep Jolteon in this team, however, since Gyarados & Jolteon are what makes this team interesting. I suggest replacing Landorus for SD Scizor above. I'd also try out utility Celebi over Ferrothorn. Celebi can set up Rocks and sponge Water / Electric hits for this team, similarly to Ferrothorn. However, it fares better against Terrakion and Chloro Sweepers that can otherwise be troublesome.

    Utility Celebi (open)
    Celebi @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
    Calm | 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD
    ~ Giga Drain
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ U-turn
    ~ Thunder Wave / Healing Wish


    Basically it sets up Rocks, forces bulky Water-types out, and keep the offensive momentum with U-turn. It should have enough bulk to take a hit from Chloro Sweeper and paralyze it in return. Alternatively it can recover one of your mons like Politoed or Gyarados to deal with such threats.


    As for the Jolteon set, I'd remove the Specs, since its rather dangerous to lock yourself into an Electric move. Rather, I think a Charge Beam or Fake Tears really pulls out Jolteon's potential as a blitzing Sweeper a lot better, allowing Jolteon to sweep teams in one-sitting, rather than a hit-and-run tactic.

    non-choiced Jolteon (open)
    Jolteon @ Expert Belt / Life Orb | Volt Absorb
    Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    ~ Thunder
    ~ Hidden Power [Ice]
    ~ Charge Beam / Fake Tears
    ~ Baton Pass / Volt Switch


    Expert Belt is probably best used in conjunction with Charge Beam or Volt Switch, when you don't want Jolteon losing health for these relatively weak moves. Although not listed, Shadow Ball could work on the final slot to hit Latias / Latios / Celebi harder, but usually the switch advantage is more useful.


    Small changes that I recommend is Ice Beam and Hypnosis over Protect and Toxic on Politoed. On an offensive team like this, putting a mon's Pokemon to sleep can be a godsend. Since Politoed's counters somewhat overlap with Gyarados and Starmie, putting those counters out of commission would be great for this team's offense. Ice Beam is mainly to pick off Dragon- and Grass-types who may switch in on Politoed to restore health.

    Also definitely add Hydro Pump on Starmie. Without its Water STAB, Starmie's potential is wasted. I would replace Recover for Hydro Pump; if you want to keep Starmie healthy for a longer time replace Life Orb for Expert Belt. Starmie doesn't lose health each turn it attacks / spins, while it still packs a lot of punch where it needs to (IE scoring a 2HKO on TTar / Celebi, etc).

    Hope this helped. Nice team, Slowking.
  9. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    Phew, late to the party it seems :), getting to that request.

    So you've gotten some seriously great suggestions so far and mine will surely mirror them.

    First off I second the Bulky Swords Dance Scizor, I agree with Pocket's placement though putting it over Landorus. They prove to be the most similar members so they will cover similar threats. Scizor is definitely the foremost change in my mind because he proves so valuable against your top threats.

    You should be aware though that this will make you weaker to Volcarona, specifically the Rain Quiver Dance set. It's Hurricane has enough power to get by Gyarados, who proves to be a fairly good check otherwise. Something you could try is a Bulky Dragon Dance Dragonite. The set I suggest is:

    Show Hide
    Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 SDef / 212 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Roost
    - Dragon Claw / Outrage
    - Waterfall


    This is a great set in the rain! It serves a similar role as your current DD bulky Gyarados. The two slashes are personal choices; Leftovers and Dragon Claw are often used because it gives more opportunities to DD or Roost, while Lum and Outrage provide more immediate power and tend to be more "one-off" set ups. This set provides powerful resistances and Multiscale really can't be understated, especially with your Rapid Spin support already being present. It might seem like Fighting types could be more of a problem withoug Gyarados' intimidate but between Dnite's multiscale and Flying-type bulk they shouldn't be too bad.

    I also second NWO's smaller changes Thunder Wave and Impish on Ferrothorn, and Scald on Starmie.

    Definitely try everyone's suggestions though because everyone has given grade A rates.

    Good Luck!
  10. scizor64

    scizor64

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    Very solid team rai, great work here. I love your version of Volt Turn!
  11. Nova

    Nova Palisades
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    I support the Bulky SD Scizor set since you have no priority on the team, albeit being a fast team. I personally prefer the set with SD, Bug Bite, Bullet Punch , and Roost which works excellent in rain and won't fear Heatran too much since you have plenty of Heatran checks being that it is a rain team. I would also recommend Hydro Pump over Surf on Starmie, it is a matter of power vs accuracy but if you are going for accuracy than Scald is better than Surf but I like the extra punch Hydo Pump has. Also I would also suggest trying out Specs Tornadus over Jolteon as Tornadus gets U-turn to scout and few pokes likes taking Specs Hurricanes. You can also opt for LO on Tornadus and pack Rain Dance for a priority weather inducing move to keep up your weather if Poli goes down or you predict a Ninetails/Ttar switch in.

    Tornadus @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 Spa / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - U-turn
    - Dark Pulse / Rain Dance
  12. xSlowkingx

    xSlowkingx

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    WOW! Thank you people for all of your rates! I'm currently testing Bulky SD Scizor since almost everyone is suggesting it. I also like the idea of utility Celebi just Defensive version to take terrakion CC...Tell me what you think!! ^-^ again, thanks for the rates.
  13. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
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    Good team, but you get absolutely hammered by strong special attackers - namely, Trick Room Reuniclus and Specs Tornadus; the former sets up with ease against Landorus and will break a sizeable hole in your core with its Life Orbed 383 SpA attacks, while the latter can simply click Hurricane and 2HKO your entire team at minimum. A good switch-in to these threats would really help you out. I disagree with the Scizor suggestions, because while he certainly fixes the Reuniclus issue, he does nothing to help you against Tornadus - if he's gonna be able to switch into Specs Hurricane and live to tell the tale, he'll need a ton of special defensive investment, leaving little room for attack EVs and making it alot harder to actually check Tornadus with Bullet Punch.

    I support Windsong's specially defensive Rachi suggestion, as it fixes both these issues, but I recommend dropping Jolteon for it because all it's doing is hitting with speedy attacks, which is already done by Landorus and Starmie. Plus, the mons that Jolteon beats (bulky waters) are already beaten by your other members. By dropping Jolt, you can now drop Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn for Spikes; additional entry hazard support will make your powerful hitters alot harder to wall. I also recommend dropping Protect for Thunder, using a Sassy nature to avoid Careful's special attack drop; this will allow you to slow down faster threats [mons such as Latios, Latias and Virizion] and then slowly gain Leftovers recovery while you para-flinch them to death.

    As for a minor change, try Surf / Hydro Pump on Starmie...it shouldn't be without a Water STAB of some sort unless you're running it on a sun team, and it has absolutely no excuse to not abuse its best attacks under rain. GL with the team, hope I helped.
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    The thing about Tornadus is that Jolteon, Starmie, Scizor, +1 Gyarados already beats it to the punch, so I find its damage being minimal to this speedy team. However, Hurricane coverage never hurts.
  15. xSlowkingx

    xSlowkingx

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    I have updated the Team so much so let me know what you think!!
  16. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¬°YA HA!
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    Hey there.

    DD Dragonite can cause this team serious problems, mainly because it has Lum Berry to absorb status and Stealth Rock will never be present to break its Multiscale. Therefore, I highly suggest that you replace Hidden Power Ice with Stealth Rock with Celebi. Hidden Power Ice won't be KOing Dragonite any time soon, especially with Multiscale intact; Thunder Wave can paralyze Dragon-types anyway. Stealth Rock allows you to put more pressure on the opponent, and can greatly help you take care of Dragonite.

    Also, run Leftovers over Life Orb on Scizor. Your Scizor is meant to set up more than one Swords Dance, so Leftovers will help it considerably, as gaining HP is much better than losing 10% every turn.

    Gyarados's EV spread should be changed to 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Speed with an Adamant nature. This will maximize Gyarados's offensive powers while still allowing it to reach 261 Speed, outrunning Adamant DD Dragonite and below. The loss in bulk isn't really an issue.

    Finally, a big problem with your team is that it is incredibly slow despite not being stall. The fastest thing on your team is Gyarados, which only has base 81 Speed. Therefore, I suggest changing your Politoed to a Choice Scarf variant. This will greatly help your team out, and provide you with a powerful Pokemon that can deal major damage to the opposition with its rain-boosted STAB Hydro Pump. Its EV Spread should be 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Speed with a Modest nature, as this will maximize its offensive prowess. Its moveset should be Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Perish Song / Hypnosis. Hydro Pump will be the move of choice in most circumstances, hitting extremely hard. Ice Beam provides coverage, Perish Song forces set-up sweepers out, and Hypnosis can be good for crippling common switch-ins such as Rotom-W.

    Solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!
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