Making Good Choices - 10th on Ladder (OU RMT)

[Kir]

INTRO:

Something I’d like you to note when reading this thread is that I don’t have a single set-up sweeper. This team is all-about inflicting some sort of damage every single turn. I also run 3 users of either Choice Band or Choice Specs…no Scarves! Prediction makes the game fun, and with Choice sets based off of neutrality, relying on prediction isn’t so risky (hence the title of this topic). I’ve found from past experience that Choice Scarves just come back to bite me in the end.

As far as ladder ranking goes, I peaked at #10 before I left for Spring Break, but when I returned and saw my CRE had dropped 40-some points, I really didn’t have the motivation to climb back up. All laddering for this team has been done under my Shoddy nick of CAL- Kiryoku.

Enough babbling about ladder stuff. I know that gets boring to read as a team rater.

BACKGROUND:

Skip this if you get bored easily…

Before the making of this team, all-out offensive play was something I had not tried in the OU tier for a long time. Not having the ability to restore the health of my Pokemon proved to be a difficult concept to for me to grasp. This team struggled in its early stages, and I almost decided to scrap the idea of offense altogether and just accept that I need a bulky team to fit my playing style.

But, as time went on, I grew tired of my stallish team so much so that I was on the verge of quitting Pokemon. I knew what every Pokemon would probably do. I knew how I would respond to every Pokemon. Simply put, I was bored, and I needed a challenge. Offensive play was the challenge I needed, and it has rekindled my interest in the game itself. RIP StauffenStall. You had a good run.

---

Here we go!

Mamoswine (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock

Thank you Stellar for this incredible set. I consider this the best lead I have ever used.

I can count on one hand the number of times that this set has failed to get me a KO, whether it is through his basic STAB combination or through Endeavor + Ice Shard. Endeavor + Ice Shard does require a decent amount of prediction to pull off successfully, but it is great when it works and it is a very fun combination nonetheless. This guy has brought down quite a few of the Scizor he lures in that generally go for a Bullet Punch KO in the early game.

I consider this one of the best Stealth Rock leads in the game because no one ever Taunts Mamoswine, unless I’ve played them before (in which case I just attack first turn). This set is really a foolproof way to get the Rocks up early on with basically no risk, and for that reason alone, it should be more common in the metagame imo.

It is worth noting the surprise factor with this set. There is a stigma around Mamoswine that he is nothing more than another hard hitter in the OU environment. While he does have one of the best attack scores in the tier, this supporting lead role has opened new possibilities for him.

Considering Metagross and Jirachi leads are very, very common, I’d like to mention how I play against them. Against Metagross I always use Earthquake on the first turn. Sadly, Earthquake + Ice Shard fails to guarantee me a KO against the bulky Metagross sets, but I’ve found a way to turn this into my advantage. It works something like this (obviously not a real log lol):

Mamoswine used Earthquake
Metagross lost 80-90% of its health
Metagross used Meteor Mash
Mamoswine hung on with Focus Sash
--
CAL- Kiryoku switched in Infernape
Metagross used Bullet Punch
Infernape lost very little health
--
Infernape used U-turn
[here they either switch to an Infernape “counter” like Latias or Starmie and take huge damage or they sacrifice Metagross]

If they sacrifice Metagross, then I have a Mamoswine sitting at 1HP with no SR up, which is essentially a free KO from Endeavor later in the match (assuming they have something slower than Mamoswine, which is…always). Also, I’ve stopped them from getting SR up. If they go to a counter, I can be in an advantageous position again thanks to U-turn. Mamoswine vs. Metagross is a great position for me at the beginning of a match, even though it may not really look like it at first glance.

Mamoswine vs. Jirachi is different though. I don’t like risking the Iron Head flinch, so I go to Scizor right away and then fire off an early game U-turn, which again puts me in a good spot and also means they didn’t get Rocks.

---

Infernape (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Mach Punch

In a Lati@s OU, I believe this is the best way for Infernape to keep his spot as one of the game’s best hard-hitters.

With this set Infernape can, at worst, 2HKO, all of his so-called “counters” barring Gyarados. Even Tentacruel is 2HKOed by Flare Blitz or CC after taking SR damage. Vaporeon, Latias, Starmie, etc. all are 2HKOed.

Aside from overpowering most of his switch-ins, Infernape also helps keep a lot of Pokemon in check that would otherwise give me loads of trouble. Defensive Rotom-A’s are 2HKOed, Scarved Magnezones / Heatrans are kept in check, and Lucario / DD Tar are almost non-factors. I don’t normally endorse a Choice set that can’t hit really common Pokemon like Gyarados and Salamence neutrally, but I am prepared to handle them with my other Pokemon.

Mach Punch cannot be replaced by Stone Edge or Thunderpunch. I absolutely need Mach Punch in order to not be 6-0ed by Lucario.

Overall, this guy might be the MVP. I hope to see CB Infernape usage rise soon.

---

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 188 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- U-turn
- Roost

This is a set that is very common in ubers, but for whatever reason is almost never seen in OU. The idea here is not type coverage, but instead, just pure utility. I lose a lot of power by using this over CB, but I do still retain Scizor’s [in]famous checkmate moves: Bullet Punch, Pursuit, and U-turn. I also get the benefits of Roost. Scizor is what keeps me from losing to Latias pretty badly, so the recovery is absolutely necessary. I don’t really care if I lose him to Magnezone. I only see that thing once every…20 battles or so.

EVs allow me to outspeed Vaporeon. 56 Attack gives me a bonus point, and still plenty of power. The rest was put in to HP and Special Defense to deal with Pokemon such as Gengar and Latias.

---

Jolteon (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Baton Pass

Blissey-less teams are going to be in a world of hurt from this guy. As touched on in the intro (and emphasized in RLs Choice items topic), neutrality is very important. Jolteon is ideal for this role since it obtains almost perfect coverage in just two moves- Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball. Only Magnezone resists both of them in OU. Hidden Power Grass is used almost never and is here only because of the lack of a better filler move.

A dry Baton Pass is a wonderful tactic imo. Excuse me for stating the obvious here, but it is like a U-turn without the damage. I’ve seen plenty of SpecsJolts that use Signal Beam as the final move, but Baton Pass is superior in every way; Shadow Ball hits Celebi hard enough. Baton Pass is fun to use early game to scout for electric immunes and CB Tars that are heavily EVed in SpD.

I’d like to add that Tyranitars that don’t invest in a lot of bulk are 2HKOed after SR. Other Pokemon like Zapdos and Salamence find themselves OHKOed after SR, which goes to show HP Grass > HP Ice.

Just like Scizor, I feel there is a better spread out there somewhere. If you have something that is better than a basic 252 / 252 / 4 then please say so.

---

Swampert (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 108 HP/204 Atk/96 Def/100 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall

These were the things said in the aformentioned Choice items topic that a good choice user should have:

1. Power - Pretty simple and straightforward. You don't want to waste your time slapping a Choice Band on a pokemon with base 70 Attack now do you??? Another VERY important overlooked think to note about power is the base power of the moves, which I will discuss in depth further down.
2. Neutral Coverage - This is THE MOST frustrating and important point I can make in this entire thread. Lately, I see many users submitting sets that concentrate on hitting targets Super Effectively. However, that is a terrible misconception about Choice Items. In fact, the reverse is true. The key to using Choice Specs / Band is to focus on your neutral coverage, regardless of the type chart. Why? It is more important.. that simple. Because you are boosting damage, super effective type coverage should be of little concern, and certainly not be first thing you think about when designing a Choice Set for your team. Realistically, you should try to choose a pokemon that can acheive nearly perfect coverage in just two moves. You should never have to use the fourth option, and will rarely use the third option in most cases. Therefore, omit any unneccessary moves that are disgned to hit specific pokemon Super Effective, rather than concentration on your own coverage. That is the whole nature of Choice Items... to fire off your most powerful attack to keep the other team off balance.
3. Accessibility: This is something many of you already know and consciously think about when assigning Choice Items to specific pokemon. How easy is it to get this Choice user in???? Picking a Choice user that has multiple attempts to get in will be most beneficial to your team in the long run, and allow you to punch more holes in the opponents team. So things here to consider are weakness / susceptibility to entrance hazards, immunities to attacks or status, and resistances.
4. The "Uncertainty Factor:" This is something I sort of came up with myself that makes certain Choice Users especially good. The uncertainty factor is more of a bonus than anything, but does distinguish a few Choice candidates from others. So what I mean by this is a pokemon thats entry into battle creates difficult decisions for the opponent. Rather than just thinking about who to switch to, they now have to think about "Do I switch? or do I stay in?" Yes, I'm talking about Pursuiters like Tyranitar, U-turners like Scizor and Flygon, and pokemon with dry Baton Pass like Jolteon. Their appearance in battle can really put an opponent in a tight spot.

Swampert defines a good Choice Bander. The “Uncertainty Factor” may not be great, but he makes up for it in sheer surprise value.

His Waterfall is powerful enough to score 2HKOs on the likes of Zapdos, Hippowdon, and Blissey and his Earthquake packs the punch to 2HKO other Swampert and iirc Forretress. It is an OHKO against most Scizor as well. Ice Punch OHKOs Latias. Stone Edge OHKOs Gyarados (Swampert can take a DDed Waterfall).

EVs allow me to still take hits from Heatran and Tyranitar decently. I can also outspeed most Tyranitar.

Do not mess with a CB Pert. : )

---

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk/252 Spd/240 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

MixMence remains the icon for basic offensive force. He has the best attacking STAB that he can abuse from both sides of the attacking spectrum and then the perfect coverage moves to complement it. Everyone who has played this game for a decent amount of time has been in the horrible situation where you don’t know who to switch into Salamence. He truly does threaten everything in the game.

I’d like to touch on the combination of Salamence and Infernape, which happen to be the two Pokemon I began building this team with. Their type synergy is almost perfect, and the fact that Infernape is ideal for weakening bulky water switch-ins with U-turn is really appealing since ‘Mence only needs about 30-40% off their health for him to KO with Draco Meteor.

Max Speed is necessary to beat the other Salamence that think it isn’t a good idea anymore since Latias is OU now. Draco Meteor KOs opposing Salamence even if I’m at -2 SpA.

---

No threat list- it’s too hard to make for an offensive team based on revenge killing. If you have questions on how I handle a specific threat, go ahead and ask.

---

I’m posting this team because I’m retiring it, at least temporarily. For now, I’m going to concentrate on getting back into UU and ubers, and hopefully LC too.

I'd like to thank all those at the Crazy Amazing League who helped in the creation of this team- panamaxis, El Blecko, Ciaran, Mr. Whiscash, fallencaptain and anyone else I may be forgetting!"

Rate it / Hate it / Steal it!

If you are still reading…thanks! I know its lots of reading.

 

[Virtuoso]

I really like this team. And I am glad to see someone else is using Lead Mamo besides me. 5/5

 

[TONY MONTANA]

Nice team,I have also a Team with CBswamp, Scizor, Jolteon and Salamence nearly the same 0.O

W/E, I dont like dry pass on Jolteon, i thnik u cam use here Signalbeam?!

 

[Cyrrona]

5 stars, would read/help build again. :)

But seriously, this team is great. After seeing it in action, it really keeps the pressure on, and you've got an answer for nearly everything. Great job, props for the ingenuity on some of the sets, and congrats on breaking top ten!

Also, the scouting a dry Baton Pass brings is much more useful (especially for an offensive team like this) than Signal Beam. As TC already stated, Shadow Ball will hurt Celebi enough.

 

[TONY MONTANA]

Also, the scouting a dry Baton Pass brings is much more useful (especially for an offensive team like this) than Signal Beam. As TC already stated, Shadow Ball will hurt Celebi enough.

Uhh, i dont see Shadowball D=.
Sry for that

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

This is kinda a random post, but whatever, I'm curious.

How do you deal with bulky Rotom formes? I guess your primary switch-in would be... Jolteon? Shadow ball would KO, I'm pretty sure...
I'm thinking of trying out a "dry pass" Jolteon like your on one of my teams...

 

[Bakachild]

Hey, good team btw it seems you cover your weakness pretty well. I can't detect any major threats other than SD Lucario which is handled by Infernape's mach punch like you listed. Jolly is the preferred nature but I do realize that it fails to OHKO with Mach Punch even with SR down. Adamant is your nature if Lucario is really a problem. Since you really don't have a bold weakness I will list out three potential pokemon that could give it a problem as a whole. Jolly Gyarados, Choice Scarf Flygon and Charge Beam Jolt. With a number of choice users i don't see the problem for Jolly Gyarados being the #1 threat to your team setting up nicely. The standard Dragon Dance / Waterfall / Earthquake / Ice Fang will really give this team a hard time. Without hesitation I see a plethora of oppurtunities to set up one DD. Swampert if your main stopper but Stone Edge's accuracy is shakey and it is really hard to handle it. I'm not going to suggest any changes since you are not planning to use this gain - but i'm just going to ask how you handle this threat. Scarf Flygon as a whole will give it problems but it's not that big because your pretty good (rank-wise). Charge Beam jolt maybe a problem (the least) with Infernape gone. Charge Beam will massacre weakened pokemon and 50% boost is scary. it OHKO's Salamence with Thunderbolt, OHKO with HP Grass on Swampert, OHKO's opposing Jolteon with /SR down. Scizor is your source of revenge killing but with the amount of attack put into the EV's bullet punch will 2-3hko (im not sure). I guess what i'm trying to say is keep MVP alive to keep Jolteon in check. With that being said, i won't make any pokemon changes but I will suggest one moveset change. Your Mix Mence really needs DD to handle Gyarados. Any given oppurtunity to unleash one DD is good enough. You might want to go standard Dragon Dance / Outrage / Earthquake / Fire Blast. Fire Blast 24 spA EV's OHKO most physical steel walls which is a problem to most dragons. If you are uencetrain to use Outrage Dragon Claw could go in plce of Earthquake. Good luck with this team

 

[Peachfuzz]

I'd like to know how often the lead Mamo gets up rocks though. It seems like it can easily beat lots of opposing leads, but how reliable is it in getting up those rocks? I'm also curious if you have problems with Dragon Dance Salamence. Life Orb Bullet punches aren't enough, and Mamoswine will probably die early.

As much fun as Choice Band Swampert is, I think Swampert's defensive abilities would be used to the fullest on this team, stopping threats like Agility Metagross and that Jolly Gyarados mentioned above. The standard Mixpert with Hidden Power [Electric] over Ice Beam seems good.

Seems like a very fun team to use. Good luck!

 

[Capt. Pork Chop]

The mamoswine lead is unexpected, and from what I see, is going to be hard to counter :x. The rest of the team falls perfectly in line with it too. Though, in my experience, umbreon proved to be a better special wall than blissey, so you might wanna add something to make it completely useless.

 

[Kir]

Thanks for the responses. You guys are right about pretty much everything that gives me problems.

Jolly Gyarados is really annoying, but it is rare. Jolteon outspeeds most Adamant Gyarados after a DD, so that helps, but against Jolly I go to Salamence initially to Intimidate which will get rid of the attack boost from Dragon Dance. Then I go to Swampert to take either Ice Fang or Stone Edge, and then I go for the KO with my own Stone Edge. Some players even go for more DDs after I bring in Pert since standard Pert can't really touch Gyarados. If Mamoswine's sash is still intact, Endeavor + Ice Shard is an easy way to beat it. I just wish Endeavor had more PP...

Choice Scarf Flygon is reaalllly annoying. I don't have a good answer for how I deal with it other than wearing it out with SR and priority moves or KOing it on the predicted switch.

Rotoms in general give me a headache. Scizor likes to Pursuit the Choiced ones locked on Shadow Ball, but it's risky getting him in. Bulky forms are nearly OHKOd by Infernape's Flare Blitz, but Infernape hates the Scarfed ones, so yeah, I never know who to go to initially against Rotom.

As a side note about Infernape, there is absolutely no reason for Jolly. Most base 100s don't even run +speed natures anymore with Latias OU. I can still outrun Lucario, and as Grimmjow said, I need Adamant to beat Luke for sure. Adamant is always the way to go for a physical attacking Infernape.

Mamoswine doesn't always get rocks on first turn, but he can if you want. It just depends on your play style. I prefer to go for early KOs.

---

Don't hesitate on suggesting a change. Yes, I'm retiring it for now, but I think I'll use it again some day. Thanks

Sorry this response is kind of rushed. I g2g.

 

[Warthog]

I really like this team, great job. You gave me some hope in creating an offense based team that doesn't suck.

 

[ninja1357]

I run a very similarly EVed Scizor set, only the set is bulletpunch/bb/sd/roost. I get that you're trying to out speed metagross/skarmory/etc but why? you can't do anything to them. Breloom runs a hefty amount of speed, Cloyster is lol and unless Ludicolo is being sacrificed, he's not going to stay in. Anyway, use 232Hp/160Spdef/116Atk. The Hp allows you a hypothetical 11 turns of life orb recoil, 160Spdef is more than enough and an extra 16 EVs in Atk couldn't hurt.

 

[Kir]

I run a very similarly EVed Scizor set, only the set is bulletpunch/bb/sd/roost. I get that you're trying to out speed metagross/skarmory/etc but why? you can't do anything to them. Breloom runs a hefty amount of speed, Cloyster is lol and unless Ludicolo is being sacrificed, he's not going to stay in. Anyway, use 232Hp/160Spdef/116Atk. The Hp allows you a hypothetical 11 turns of life orb recoil, 160Spdef is more than enough and an extra 16 EVs in Atk couldn't hurt.

Hm? You're set has a completely different concept than mine does. I want to check special attacking threats like Latias and Gengar, your set sweeps...I don't see how they are even comparable, and the Life Orb numbers on your EV spread mean nothing if you have Roost.

...and when did I say anything about Metagross/Skarmory and lol Cloyster?

I'll consider your EV spread, but I'll need better reasoning. Not trying to sound like a jerk here.

 

[ninja1357]

Sorry, I'm incredibly bad at expressing my thoughts (which is why I don't post often). My set allows me to take on things like Vaporean who think they can come in and Surf me to death. However the EVs I've given you are not directly taken from my set and are more of a fussion with another set I saw a while back.

Less damage from Life Orb means you can Roost less often. The extra health lets you become more physically defensive as well so you can take a CB Crunch or something. Oh and you still haven't said what the speed was for...
If anything at all, I feel you should drop the speed to optimize attack power. Hope that was more useful.

 

[Kir]

Sorry, I'm incredibly bad at expressing my thoughts (which is why I don't post often). My set allows me to take on things like Vaporean who think they can come in and Surf me to death. However the EVs I've given you are not directly taken from my set and are more of a fussion with another set I saw a while back.

Less damage from Life Orb means you can Roost less often. The extra health lets you become more physically defensive as well so you can take a CB Crunch or something. Oh and you still haven't said what the speed was for...
If anything at all, I feel you should drop the speed to optimize attack power. Hope that was more useful.

Ah, yes it was much more useful. Thanks! I'd like some other opinions before making the switch, but I'll definitely keep it in mind. I just have a feeling it can be tweaked a little more to check specific Pokemon.

Btw, my current spread has the speed for lol Shedinja who is somewhat common in ubers. To be honest, I don't see the need for any speed at all in OU which makes your spread look nicer. Like I said, I just used the uber trapper spread from the analyses without really thinking about it much. I've heard other players say it can do well in OU, so I took their word for it.

Opinions on Scizor EV spread?

 

[TeaBag]

The analysis gives Scizor 56 speed EVs to outrun max speed Shedinja which you really don't need -- cut it down to 12 speed EVs at the most to outrun most Vaporeon, etc. Otherwise, run Adamant with a bonus EV number like 16, 56, 136, etc. and pump HP and SpD.

 

[Kir]

252 HP / 56 Atk / 188 SpD / 12 Spe

How's that look? Thanks, TeaBag.

 

[Kir]

The new Scizor EV spread is up. Thanks for all of the quick and helpful responses.

To clarify, I'm open to hearing any suggestions you guys have. I'm retiring it for now, but I'll use it again someday.

PS- What do you guys think of changing Salamence to the "Old Mixmence" instead of the "New Mixmence". Right now, I very rarely switch him in on anything since the SR + Life Orb + Attack damage really adds up quickly. It seems like such a waste of that awesome defensive typing, but if he had Roost I could send him in much more often. Your thoughts?

 

[Silent Storm]

Replace Outrage with Roost, seeing as you want to increase Sala's lifespan, having Outrage on this set would be useless (because of the lock it creates).

 

[panamaxis]

I just wrote up a response, but then I accidently deleted it :(. So I'll try to sum up what I wrote:

Mence needs outrage definitely, do not change that. The team is good so I only have minor changes for you to try out. Duggie > Pert? (you probably won't like it as much, but hey, nothing to lose by testing it out) I've tried it and it works well with jolteon dry baton passing, you can trap and kill jolts counters, like ttar and blissey. Have you tried lead metagross > Mamo? Explosion is pretty much a better endeavor in my opinion, but you said you like it so that's fine, this is just food for thought.

 

[Darkmalice]

Duggie > Pert? (you probably won't like it as much, but hey, nothing to lose by testing it out) I've tried it and it works well with jolteon dry baton passing, you can trap and kill jolts counters, like ttar and blissey.

I can't deny the usefulness of this trick, though this trick can be utilised by Baton Passing to "It's a Trap Scizor" Scizor. However, Scizor traps different pokemon than Jolteon.


One thing I have noticed is five grounded pokemon. It is amazing how badly Stall beats your team, thanks to no recovery, and Spikes and Tspikes dealing massive residual damage to your team. I originally thought of using Magnezone in place of Jolteon to trap the two OU Spikers, but on a Stall team, they would probably be holding a Shed Shell.

So I would recommend a Spinner. You can try replacing CB Swampert with CB Donphan. Use this set:
Item: Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Assurance
Rapid Spin
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Speed

Earthquake is self-explanatory. Assurance is needed for spin blockers. Whenever someone sees Donphan, they think "Rapid Spin. I'll send in my Spin blocker (at least on a stall team)." Then they come in, and thanks to SR, will be hit by a base 100 move for super-effective damage. Bold max/max Rotom-A has a 20.51% of being OHKOed in this scenario. Once the spin-blocker is dead, feel free to Rapid Spin those hated entry hazards. The Speed enables you to outrun Relaxed Swampert. Stone Edge is for the many flying types, and is great for incoming Gyarados, especially when considering that Salamence is the only pokemon on your team that resists Water attacks. Ice Shard is absent. Many many pokemon can come into a non-STAB base 40 power attack, even with Donphan's massive Attack stat. Besides, you don't need another priority attack. You already have three, one of which is Mamoswine's Ice Shard. 20 Speed EVs is to outrun Relaxed Swampert. The rest goes to maximise Donphan's Atk and overall durability. Donphan is more physically durable than Swampert, but not specially. Hopefully, Scizor can take special attacks for the team.


The main problem with this is that Salamence is now your only Fire resist, especially when considering the over-abudance of Heatran. Salamence isn't a good switch-in to Fire Blast, because he gets 2HKOed over 75% of the time thanks to a SR weakness. Should Swampert be replaced, you would then have to change a pokemon on your team who would be able to take Fire attacks. Scarf Flygon works. Even with 0 HP and SDef, he is still only 3HKOed by Fire Blast, thanks to a resistance to SR. He has U-turn in place of Baton Pass. However, this would mean you have three Ground pokemon on your team, and two x4 Ice weak pokemon. Flygon is also used in a completely different manner to Jolteon. The ability Leviate is very useful though, giving yourself a pokemon other than Salamence who resists Earthquake, Spikes and TSpikes. And he has better coverage than Jolteon, with Outrage, Earthquake and Fire Blast hitting every pokemon for at least neutral damage.

 

[Rolf]

The only thing I see wrong is that you use a CBPert instead of SpecsPert :|
(I was somewhat serious - http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50649&highlight=SpecsPert)

Looks very nice otherwise. I mean, if you get to the leaderboard with it, it pretty much has to be good.

 

[joshe]

This is a great team, and even with you retiring it I still feel the need to rate. Obviously this team doesn't need help, considering your previous place on the ladder but i'll suggest something. I would like you to try this kind of salamence:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 76 Atk/252 SAtk/180 Spd
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage

This is exactly like your current salamence, but with less speed and more power. Like you say, not many base 100 pokes run max because of latias. but many base 90s do now because they can now outspeed those base 100s. So basically, what i'm trying to say is you only need to outspeed those pokes, aaannd all the base 100s you run a speed boosting nature, but only sit at 308. What this does, and acomplishes is to hit 309 to outspeed and go killin'.
The evs generate: 331 Hp/325 Atk/319 SpAtk/309 Spd, which is absolutly amazing, for mixed attacking, and it's fast and sleek too(sounds like a car commercial), so just give it a shot, I never waste anyone's time ^_^

Hope I helped and Good Luck with the team in the future, should you decide to use it again =)

 

[Kir]

Hmm...lots of interesting ideas here.

@ pana: If I replaced Swampert with Dugtrio, I'd be very, very Scarftran weak since Infernape can't OHKO with Mach Punch. That is, unless I use ScarfDuggy which means I don't beat T-tar and Blissey, which is the whole reason you suggested it anyway. As far as Lead Gross goes, I think I'll try that out, but I've really had so much success with Mamoswine that he's pretty hard to give up. He gives the team cool points too lol since Mamoswine is definitely one of the toughest looking Pokemon in the game! ...not that it really matters. If Lead Gross turns out to be the best option I'll by all means use it.

@ darknessmalice: Stall isn't as big of a problem as it might look like. As far as best stall breaker goes, there's the argument of Physical Infernape vs. Mixed Salamence, and I have both. Also, Swampert has taken out many Celebi and Forretress that think they can come in for free. I agree that if the opponent gets their Spikes in place I'm pretty much screwed, but I don't see how they will find the time to do so. Assurance + Spin Donphan looks like it would be a lot of fun, and it'd probably work too but, as with pana's Dugtrio suggestion, it leaves me very, very open to the omnipresent ScarfTran. Because stall can in fact be a problem, I'm still considering Roost > Outrage and Brick Break > Earthquake. That way I can come back in against a stall team over and over and over without worrying about Life Orb + Sandstorm recoil (as long as I keep Salamence away from a pesky Blissey Toxic). That also helps me beat the rare dual screen team that would probably rip me to shreds.

To expand on my idea that stall teams won't have time to set up their hazards, consider this. Yes, Skarmory, Forretress, and Tentacruel can all set up very easily against Scizor but realistically, when will I use anything except U-turn against a stall team? It's pointless to Pursuit Celebi since I know they have a Skarm/Forre/Tenta waiting to come in, so I don't play that way. Bullet Punch is going to be pretty useless against the standard stall team as well. Roost won't be used until late game when the Life Orb damage finally adds up, and at that point, hopefully I'll have eliminated the primary spikers. Really, I'm not too concerned about facing a stall team; I just need to predict really well.

But still I'm considering Old Mixmence > New Mixmence for reasons I've said above. Your thoughts? Thanks again for all the replies!

EDIT: @ Joshe: lol you responded as I was preparing my response to the other guys. Didn't intentionally look past you xD.

Hmm...what you say about Salamence makes sense. I think that spread looks pretty good but I'm still nervous about missing out against another Salamence that thinks max speed is still the way to go. Salamence is a big threat for my team. Again though, what are your thoughts on me trying out the old Mixmence?

 

[ToF]

How does he lose to stall when he has Salamence and Infernape? Even if Salamence doesn't completely break the opponents stall, Infernape can come in and basically clean up. Come on guys, think!

First point, Salamence definitely wants Outrage and max speed. If anything, I'd replace Earthquake for Roost it you want more survivability (and believe me, with the switches Salamence causes, it's pretty easy to recover damage). Max speed lets you at least tie other Salamence in tight spots, and also possibly hit stuff like Zapdos very hard. The EV spread you have now is ideal, so keep it.

Against Jirachi leads, I'd be weary of Fire Punch. Scizor might not be the ideal switch in early game, I'd consider Infernape, but this is a pretty moot point. Anyway, onto the actual team.

With so many choice users, fast paced offensive teams could become a major problem. Gyarados hurts the team really bad, and Swampert is not a reliable counter since it's CB'd and isn't maximally defensively EV'd. Basically, if the opponent holds ScarfTran + LO Gyarados, you lose. Although you'd lose some offensive, a simple fix is Vaporeon in that slot. Covers your weaknesses nicely, and can also provide Wish support to the rest of your choiced sweepers (which means you can probably leave Earthquake on Salamence). The stuff you listed underneath Swampert (Zapdos, Hippowdon, etc) are already handled by the rest of your team quite well, so the change could be beneficial to you.

Other than that, everything looks pretty solid. I'd say you're maximizing the EV spreads on Scizor and Jolteon, so thats fine. Good luck, obviously you've done well with this team.