Manaphy uber?

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maniaclyrasist said:
There are some things manaphy can switch in on easily, but it'll still get worn down pretty easily due to that same basic typing you talking about, it has very little resistances and with TG sets having no recovery its not that hard to rack up damage on Manaphy. Also from my experience on wifi i realise manaphy can do massive damage to a team but alot of people are treating it as if it can OHKO everything after a TG, if anything I actually fear the Rain Dancer more than the Tail Glowerbecause it is harder to kill but by no means do i think it should be banned
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Once it has rest it clear limits itself.It open self up counters because it can't carry ice beam and grass knot.
 
I wouldnt say that supporting it with rain dance would bump it to the uber tier, what happens if the pokemon that is setting up the Rain Dance for Manaphy is taken out before Manaphy even gets a chance to sweep, Manaphy is then basically left with 3 moves it can use. One of those moves being Tail Glow, and also it is now only left with 2 attacks to work and without the type coverage it'll be even easier to counter.
 
Abusing Rain Dance with Manaphy does not imply it is using Rest. Hydration still protects Manaphy from T-Wave and its PARing friends, or getting slept by Gengar or something.
 
Yes, perhaps it is Alakazam and Gengar's own strengths that would prevent them from pulling off a successful Taunt. But Phuquoph's (brilliant) Mismagius suggestion got me thinking...

Mismagius would be ideal to Taunt Manaphy since it outspeeds it, has massive Special Defense, Calm Mind and can pose a threat to Manaphy. It could also pull out the set that Phuquoph suggested, meaning the opponent doesn't know which set you will use to counter Manaphy. Or it could Destiny Bond. *cackle*
 
I'm not sure how far this would go, but I think a 'trick specs' variant of Alakazam with Grass Knot would go a LONG way to countering Manaphy and rendering him largely useless. Honestly, that's the only counter I see working without overspecializing to deal with one threat, though I do like the Mismagius suggestion.
 
Only problem with Grass Knot, is that Manaphy weighs like 20 pounds. Even a super effective Grass Knot only does 40-60 damage IIRC. Go with Energy Ball.
 
Oh, sorry, my mistake. I completely forgot how light Manaphy was. But yes, Trick specs + Energy Ball + high speed and special defense gives Manaphy a lot of trouble, and can't just be switched away by the opponent. Of course, your timing and prediction will have to be good...
 
well zam can use a

Encore/Taunt
Calm Mind/Energy Ball/Focus Blast
Recover
Psychic

and beat Manaphy pratically everytime while still being usable on a normal team
 
Well, Encore is less prone to disastrous results if they switch, since you only have one chance to Trick Specs without wasting a turn, so that might work better.

At the very least, Encore and Trick Specs would give Zam two different variants to counter Manaphy without completely giving away his set the second you send him out, at least granting some flexibility and chance for your opponent to mispredict.
 
Mr.E said:
Many of the better Steels have plenty of SpD. Metagross, Magnezone, Jirachi, Empoleon, and Heatran all have very respectable SpD. Bronzong is a wall on both fronts. What's left, Skarmory?
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All of those still takes a lot of damage.
Metagross with 252 sp. def EVs lose 142 - 167 Hp from a Choice Specs Draco Meteor.

@topic:

In D/P it's extremely hard to get a turn for Manaphy use Tail Glow. If someone from the opposite team already has used a Nasty Plot/Swords Dance, Manaphy can't do a thing but get 2HKOEd. And before using Tail Glow, he won't KO anything with his mediocre 100 base sp. atk (while Azelf gets 125, which is enough to KO something that already endured any attack even unboosted).

We can compare Manaphy to Swift Swim Pokemon. Bulky, packs a powerful Surf/Hydro Pump that can be used right from the bat, and is enough to 2HKO even those resistant to it, also they aren't outrun by nothing. While Manaphy has a mediocre 100 sp. atk (while Azelf has 125, enough to KO opponents even unboosted), he needs to Tail Glow every time he'll want to attack, his speed will let him open to powerful hits like Choice Banded Garchomp's Outrage, Alakazam's any attack or Gengar's. Even Azelf with Thunderbolt will take out a lot of Hp from him (OHKO if Nasty Plotted once).

So, if Manaphy pops up in a Rain Dance team, he'll probably be the Resting one. And then he'll suffer from the four move slot sindrome, which has been explained some pages ago.

Sorry for the long post.
 
This topic is beginning to remind me of that horrible Garchomp topic a while back that went on forever. Locking this now before it becomes one big merri-go-round.

MrE has made some excellent points in this topic; whether or not you agree, everyone would be wise to listen to him.
 
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