March of the Penguins! [OU RMT]

[Ciaran]

March of the Penguins [OU RMT]

INTRODUCTION:
This is a team I built around a sweep with what is, in my opinion, one of if not the scariest sweeper when used properly. SubPetaya Empoleon. The biggest flaw SubPetaya Empoleon has is having only one chance to sweep, so there is a large importance of having the right preparation and team work.
I worked out a list of things a SubPetaya Empoleon team needs to beat to allow a sweep.

First is things that wall the sweep, your walls/counters:
Vaporeon, Tentacruel, Snorlax, Blissey, Suicune, Milotic, Gyarados

Next were things that could come in while I Agility and outspeed/take a boosted hit and KO in return, your checks or revenge killers:
Latias, ScarfFlygon, ScarfRotom, ScarfGengar, ScarfMence

And finally the bane of all pinch berry users, priority abusers, although some won't do enough to Empoleon to be worth a mention:
Infernape, Scizor, Lucario, Himontop, Breloom

The point of the rest of this team is to remove/cripple these threats until they cannot halt Empoleon's sweep, even together.

Type Chart:

​

Main good things about the team:

• It does it's job nicely, Empoleon sometimes doesn't even have a chance to sweep due to the effectiveness of the other members.
• Despite my recent slump in play, it's preformed well for both me and others who have assisted in it's testing.
• It's fun to use. It employs sets that are both standard and those that deviate (deviating well, however).

Main problems with this team:

• Latias + Machamp + Magnezone
• Since my lead is my Toxic Spiker and utilizes a Focus Sash, I get one chance in most games to set up, if my Toxic Spikes are absorbed I can't reset them unless I'm lucky enough to have Roserade intact with enough HP to survive coming in, or without Rocks down.

Entry Hazards:

• 2 Resist Rocks, none weak to Rocks
• 5 Immune to Toxic Spikes
• 3 Immune to Spikes

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TEAM AT A GLANCE:

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A CLOSER LOOK:

Roserade @ Focus Sash

Natural Cure
6 Def | 252 SpAtk | 252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)

• Toxic Spikes
• Sleep Powder
• Leaf Storm
• Hidden Power [Ground]

Comments/Descriptions:
Roserade came into this team for one main reason: Toxic Spikes. Empoleon loves Toxic Spikes as it helps weaken bulky waters, Blissey and Snorlax. Things that could potentially wall the sweep. Roserade also has a good amount of resists that link nicely with the rest of the team and the Sleep support is invaluable for set up room for any and all of my Pokes. Rose also boasts a very powerful STAB move in Leaf Storm, which can also help tear up bulky waters that could otherwise block Empoleon. Hidden power [Ground] is used here over the standard Hidden Power [Fire] because you don't lose coverage on Metagross (in a way you gain coverage because of Occa Berry), or almost any other common lead but you gain a way to deal with Heatran, as many stay in to set up assuming you'll swap. Sleeping Trans can be set up on and if they're stupid enough to stay in death awaits them.

Here's how I use Rose against some common leads:

Azelf: Sleep Powder first. If he Rocks, cool, even if Powder misses I have another shot to Powder it. If he attacks, Powder needs to hit or I have to bring out Latias or someone else to take the secondary attack. Leaf Storm brings it down to it's Sash and Toxic Spikes set up is my main priority after Sleep Powder.

Metagross: Sleep Powder first, set up Toxic Spikes, then KO. If he stays in after being slept I may go for the KO to prevent Rocks, and this is always helpful.

Jirachi: I go for the Powder. If it hits, fantastic I can set up. If not, I swap to something to take some hits.

Hippowdon: Leaf Storm OHKOs. I generally have to swap out against the swap in, or Sleep it, leaving set up until later.

Swampert: See Hippowdon except due to the lack of Sand, I can set up even on whatever comes in assuming Sleep Powder hits.

Heatran: Sleep Powder, then set up Toxic Spikes. Kill if it stays in.

Tyranitar: Sleep Powder, Toxic Spikes, Leaf Storm.

--------------------------

Bronzong @ Leftovers

Levitate
252 HP | 86 Atk | 80 Def | 92 SpDef (0 Spe EVs)
Sassy nature (+SpDef, -Spe)

• Gyro Ball
• Explosion
• Earthquake
• Stealth Rock

Comments/Description:
Originally this slot was filled by Swampert, but Bronzong has replaced it. He still checks Mence, MixMence in particular, while adding so much more to the team than Swampert did. Gyro Ball allows me a way of checking Gengar and Latias that Swampert didn't have, while Explosion allows me a "random threat I can no longer check so I'mma blow up on it" button that I lacked previously. If you look at the type chart, it also affords me a lot more resistances and immunities that I lacked before, as well as making stall easier to beat by making Ape effectively my only Pokemon vulnerable to Toxic Spikes and Spikes (since Rose will likely die early on), and Ape isn't meant to live terribly long anyway. Gyro Ball from Bronzong is amazing due to Zong's low speed and STAB, Stealth Rock is almost necessary, making Pokes like Gyarados and Mence far easier to check, Earthquake is for Magnezone, Tentacruel, and others vulnerable to it, and finally Explosion is for, as previously stated, any threat I lose my check to or that comes in on my weakened Bronzong after it's accomplished it's job.


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Latias @ Choice Scarf

Levitate
6 Def | 252 SpAtk | 252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)

• Draco Meteor
• Trick
• Surf
• Thunderbolt

Comments/Descriptions:
Latias helps to cripple walls and Waters who could wall Empoleon by Tricking or attacking them. Latias's high speed also allows it to be a secondary check, along with Bronzong, to Salamence, outspeeding +1 Mence and OHKOing with Draco Meteor, which does massive damage even to those that resist it. This Latias, unfortunately, can also hurt me if Trick is used too hastily or if I trick something like a RestTalk Rotom when a Blissey I haven't seen could be the bigger problem on their team. This Poke has been all about decision making because the Trick Scarf is the essential element of Latias, as well as her checking ability, coverage, and resistence synergy. This was originally CM Latias, but I've found Trick Scarf Latias to be far more useful, fulfilling a much more useful capacity on the team. It is also one of my ways of removing opposing Latias, Scarf Flygon, ScarfGar, and ScarfRotom and damaging opposing Tentacruel who could otherwise give this team a bit of trouble.

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Rotom-H @ Leftovers

Levitate
64 HP | 248 SAtk | 196 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)

• Substitute
• Charge Beam
• Shadow Ball
• Hidden Power [Fighting]

Comments/Descriptions:
I was suggested this Rotom over my original Trick Scarf Rotom (the role of which was given to Latias upon the switch of this set), and I've loved it. I had decided on Rotom because he holds a position as the bet Spin Blocker in the current metagame, and for good reason. I didn't want my Toxic Spikes or Stealth Rocks removed, as they are extremely helpful. Rotom also helps me by being able to heavily damage or beat mc of Stall, coming in on Skarmory and subbing on the swap, Charge Beaming from behind the Sub and boosting its damage, the sweeping with it's STAB and Hidden Power [Fighting]. Not only does Sub allow it to boost while limiting damage it takes, but it also allows it to stall out the Toxic on the opponent's Pokemon, such as Blissey. I was shown a RMT by the person who suggested this that used this Rotom with Toxic Spikes to great success. The EVs allow it maximum damage while outspeeding Adamant Lucario, the rest of the EVs put into Bulk. With a Sub up this guy allows me to beat Latias, Blissey, ScarfGar/Rotom and Tentacruel who, as mentioned in Latias's description, can give this team trouble. At +6 he can 2HKO Blissey with Hidden Power [Fighting], not accounting for Toxic Spikes or SR damage.

Rotom's EVs have been altered slightly to prevent Blissey from breaking my Subs.

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Infernape @ Life Orb

Blaze
252 Atk | 6 SDef | 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpAtk)

• Swords Dance
• Close Combat
• Flare Blitz
• Stone Edge

Comments/Descriptions:
This guy is one of the stars of the show, being the draw of many of the same things that would block or counter Empoleon, an being able to beat most of them. Obviously I'm talking about Bulky Waters. Even Vaporeon, a well known MixApe counter, is OHKO'd by Close Combat after a boost. Rotom is removed by a boosted Flare Blitz, and it's very funny to see Gyarados or Salamence come in only to be taken out by a +1 Stone Edge. Obviously it can't beat all of it's counters, being blocked by Tentacruel and Latias, but generally those are taken care of by my other members. This Infernape is meant to set up, kill as much as possible, then die. This guy also allows me to check Scizor beyond Swampert and Latias trying to simply overpower him/Trick him, or a set up Rotom trying to hit him with a powerful Charge Beam.

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Empoleon @ Petaya Berry

Torrent
12 HP | 12 Def | 252 SAtk | 232 Spe
Modest nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)

• Agility
• Substitute
• Surf
• Ice Beam

Comments/Descriptions:
And here it is, our tuxedo'd star! SubPetaya Empoleon is one of, if not the, best late game sweeper in the metagame. Due to Sandstorm immunity, good typing (for sweeping and allowing set up), Torrent, and access to Agility and high Special Attack, Empoleon is currently the best pinch berry user in the game. The EVs here are standard, allowing maximum damage dealing, outspeeding of +Nature Base 80s that hold a Choice Scarf (Like Jolly Mamoswine or a +1 DD Dragonite) after one Agility, and almost everything in the metagame after a second Agility. With the addition of Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, a phazer, and Pokemon intent on weakening Empoleon's common counters/responses, Empoleon tends to have unhindered sweeps when the team is played correctly. Not much to say here...The team is made to allow his sweep, so all he does is set up and sweep away...

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LAST GLANCE:

CHANGES LOG:

• Rotom's EVs were slightly altered
• Pert's spread was changed to a simple 252/252/6 spread.
• Swampert ----> Bronzong

CONSIDERED CHANGES:

• Change of Rotom Spread (somewhat unlikely)

[RMT!]

 

[ADEP]

You seem obnoxiously weak to Gengar. Did you say that in your RMT? I don't remember.
Why not try a Specially Defensive Bronzong over Swampert? Sets up rocks, resists explosion, HP[Ice], takes neutral to Shadow Ball, is still vaguely a Mence check. You lose your phazing but you could also gain an effective trick user should you go down that road. Something like @Macho Brace, Trick/Explosion/Gyro Ball/Stealth Rock. Or possibly Light Screen>Trick to better take on Gengar.

 

[mc2094]

A quick thing, give Rotom-h HP Ground in place of HP Fighting. You have Toxic Spikes to wear out Blissey so I see no reason not to use it, as it lets you take out Heatran early as he is one of the most common Rotom-h counters.

 

[sora13]

Wow I'm surprised, this looks like a very refined version of this RMT I posted a long time ago! I just quickly posted to say that you should change rotom to Hp Ground. Toxic Spikes will wear down Bliss enough and HEatran is more important.

A little more...

A +2 CC does indeed KO Tenta with Rocks up, so just clearing that up. Also, Even though you use Flare Blitz for Rotom, I find that Fire Punch is much better, so I suggest you try it.

 

[Ciaran]

Given that 31% of Blisseys carry Aromatherapy and many are on stall teams, which often carry Tentacruel to absorb the Toxic Spikes, Rotom needs to not be walled by Blissey if it sheds the Toxic. HP [Fighting] still beats Tran, who doesn't stop Empoleon's sweep anyway. So I think that option isn't for this team.

However:

Bronzong > Swampert sounds great...I need to come up with a Spread for it, though.

A little more...

A +2 CC does indeed KO Tenta with Rocks up, so just clearing that up. Also, Even though you use Flare Blitz for Rotom, I find that Fire Punch is much better, so I suggest you try it.

I need to OHKO Rotom, though, so Thunderbolt doesn't OHKO me after a CC drop. And can Fire Punch OHKO Skarm as well?

 

[Kachalski]

I would put Gliscor in place of Swampert

Gliscor @ Leftovers
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Bold

U-Turn
Taunt
Stealth Rock
Earthquake

Or, you could even try a Hippowdon set I find effective.

Hippowdon @ Lum Berry
252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Careful

Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Yawn
Roar

Essentially, SR first, then Yawn. That will make them switch there Pokemon 90% of the time, if you Roar when they switch, thats a Pokemon that is going to take SR damage and one that has taken this. If they remain in and KO Hippowdon, they will be asleep, letting you bring in Empoleon, Sub while they switch, then do what you do from their.

 

[Ciaran]

I would put Gliscor in place of Swampert

Gliscor @ Leftovers
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Bold

U-Turn
Taunt
Stealth Rock
Earthquake

Or, you could even try a Hippowdon set I find effective.

Hippowdon @ Lum Berry
252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Careful

Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Yawn
Roar

Essentially, SR first, then Yawn. That will make them switch there Pokemon 90% of the time, if you Roar when they switch, thats a Pokemon that is going to take SR damage and one that has taken this. If they remain in and KO Hippowdon, they will be asleep, letting you bring in Empoleon, Sub while they switch, then do what you do from their.

Neither of those help the team at all, though:

Gliscor can't touch Mence, making him harder to beat, and loses to Gengar essentially losing one threat's check and not gaining another.

Hippowdon's SS make Ape die far too quickly, especially with all the priority floating around, and like Gliscor he can't do anything to Gengar and cannot reliably deal with Mence. Plus Yawn/Roar is somewhat repetitive as Psuedo Phazing and Phazing. :/

 

[mc2094]

^Never saw a bulky Hippowdon without Slack Off or a lead Gliscor without Roost before. Hippowdon's Sand Stream isn't going to help as it will only hinder Infernape and Latias while nulifieng Rotom-h's recovery. Without Swampert, he loses a much needed Rock resist as Empoleon can't be relied upon to switch into Tyranitar as it can carry EQuake. Bronzong is an interesting choice, though I think that would create a small weakness to DD Tyranitar with Babiri Berry. Bronzong will need to be physically bulky to take him on constantly. I think Swampert is fine the way as he is able to deal with Ttar pretty well. The only thing I would suggest is possibly bulky Sub Rotom in place of your current set. I don't think you need Rotom to perform a sweep. With proper bulk, and w-o-w, Rotom can effectivley deal with Scizor and Tyranitar who try to trap with Pursuit. Being able to burn these two is important as they can easily trap Latias who is very important right now, keeping threats like DD Mence in check late game. He also gives you a great switch in against lead Metagross as Roserade is better off switching out due to the 25% chance of Sleep Powder missing and the chance of Metagross carrying Lum Berry.

Rotom-A@Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/ 104 Def/ 152 Spe
-Discharge
-Shadow Ball
-Substitute
-W-o-W

Discharge is pretty useful here, as it has the nice chance to paralyze Latias and Heatran switch ins and thanks to Sub, you won't end up paralyzing Tyranitar by mistake. Once behind a Sub, Rotom can use W-o-W without having to risk the shaky accuracy. Shadow Ball is pretty useful on this set, letting you hit other Ghosts, namely other Rotom-A that are often relied upon to get rid of the Sub in my experience. The Speed EVs put you ahead of Jolly Tyranitar while the rest is put in for bulk.

Good luck

 

[Bad Ass]

hey, thanks for posting such a nice rmt ^_^ its so much easier to rate when it has a nice format opposed to when its scizor2choiceband252 atk... the team! yea so obviously you want empoleon to sweep, and he needs certain things to make that happen, and certain 'mons to die as well. but, you cant just have it based around empoleon; you still needs things like a nice defensive core, synergy, etc. this team's main problems are, as you said, stuff like gengar and lo latias and lo starmie. so something to like take hits from those things would be really cool on your team. a snorlax would fit in nicely, because it gives you a) another fire resist thanks to thick fat and b) takes on all of those threats handliy. maybe something like rest/sleep talk/body slam/crunch looks like it'd be awesome. put it over swampert, as the only thing he is doing for you is laying rocks.


ok, unfortunately that brand of snorlax is fodder for lucario and infernape. something to take on those threats, like a gliscor, would be really cool; something that could lay rocks as well would be even cooler. also ddmence is more of a problem with swampert gone, so something to beat THAT as well would be amazing. unfortunately, im pretty sure nothing can do all of those things...buuuuut gliscor comes pretty damn close. completely beats down lucario + taunts the mence; infernape isnt as much of a problem as you have latias + can force a speed tie with your own ape. he's also cool in the fact that he lures out bulky waters and gets them poisoned and dents them with earthquake. speedy taunt gliscor without u turn would be the best fit, he's probably the best gliscor in this metagame.

if you really dont care about rocks that much, spdef zapdos looks cool in that slot. 32 spe / 252 hp / 220 sdef calm zapdos is a biiiiiitch to take down if you arent using shit like stone edge and outrage, and emp can take advantage of that for free set up. zapdos scares off bulky waters so badly, and can set up light screen to make empoleon's set up and sweep almost unhindered. lucario and mix/plot ape are "countered", more like hard checked, but still. he can take a mixmence draco meteor easy as well, so he'd be a good fit as well. either way you choose, itd be a good choice. anyway, hope i helped, and nice team!

 

[JLei2k]

You're extremely weak to Scizor + CM Refresh Latias. You're Latias Draco Meteors kills something Scizor pursuits your Latias. CM Refresh Latias 5-0's the rest of your team. You definitely need another steel or a Tyranitar somewhere to kill opposing Latias. What's worse it can come in on your set up sweepers and just CM up an rape you.

People have to start preparing for this threat. I've seen so many RMT's in the past few weeks that are completely destroyed by Scizor + Magnezone + CM Refresh Latias.

 

[tobi10]

Heya Ciaran, pretty nice RMT, one of my two suggestions is to change Hidden Power on Rotom with Thunderbolt, since it 2HKOs Blissey after 6 boosts, unless you find Tyranitar a huge problem, (but you have pert for that : ). It will give you a solid move for Lucario, Gyarados, Heatran etc...
Other thing is, you´re actually weak to Empoleon (lol), lets say your Roserade loses the speed tie, they get set up or someone else asleep, and the only member that can take a boosted hit is Latias, which is needed for lots of things, I know you will hate this suggestion but Mach Punch Infernape is worth a try for Jolly Lucario, Empoleon, DD Tyranitar, etc...
I am going to suggest Uxie over Swampert, even when that gives you a bigger weakness to Gengar, actually he can deal considerable damage with his Psychic, givs free set up to Empoleon if he uses Yawn in an Outraging Mence and can still use Stealth Rock, I hope I helped and consider the suggestions I have given, Good Luck!!"!"34234

 

[Ciaran]

You're extremely weak to Scizor + CM Refresh Latias. You're Latias Draco Meteors kills something Scizor pursuits your Latias. CM Refresh Latias 5-0's the rest of your team. You definitely need another steel or a Tyranitar somewhere to kill opposing Latias. What's worse it can come in on your set up sweepers and just CM up an rape you.

People have to start preparing for this threat. I've seen so many RMT's in the past few weeks that are completely destroyed by Scizor + Magnezone + CM Refresh Latias.

If you read my previous post I'm considering Bronzong in place of Swampert, as it allows me to deal with Gengar better along other things and this is just another reason to use him.

I'm about 97% sure I'm going to replace Pert with Bronzong. Someone plase give me an awesome set or one more push to force me into that decision!

hey, thanks for posting such a nice rmt ^_^ its so much easier to rate when it has a nice format opposed to when its SCIZOR@CHOICEBAND...onto the team! yea so obviously you want empoleon to sweep, and he needs certain things to make that happen, and certain 'mons to die as well. but, you cant just have it based around empoleon; you still needs things like a nice defensive core, synergy, etc. this team's main problems are, as you said, stuff like gengar and lo latias and lo starmie. so something to like take hits from those things would be really cool on your team. a snorlax would fit in nicely, because it gives you a) another fire resist thanks to thick fat and b) takes on all of those threats handliy. maybe something like rest/sleep talk/body slam/crunch looks like it'd be awesome. put it over swampert, as the only thing he is doing for you is laying rocks.


ok, unfortunately that brand of snorlax is fodder for lucario and infernape. something to take on those threats, like a gliscor, would be really cool; something that could lay rocks as well would be even cooler. also ddmence is more of a problem with swampert gone, so something to beat THAT as well would be amazing. unfortunately, im pretty sure nothing can do all of those things...buuuuut gliscor comes pretty damn close. completely beats down lucario + taunts the mence; infernape isnt as much of a problem as you have latias + can force a speed tie with your own ape. he's also cool in the fact that he lures out bulky waters and gets them poisoned and dents them with earthquake. speedy taunt gliscor without u turn would be the best fit, he's probably the best gliscor in this metagame.

if you really dont care about rocks that much, spdef zapdos looks cool in that slot. 32 spe / 252 hp / 220 sdef calm zapdos is a biiiiiitch to take down if you arent using shit like stone edge and outrage, and emp can take advantage of that for free set up. zapdos scares off bulky waters so badly, and can set up light screen to make empoleon's set up and sweep almost unhindered. lucario and mix/plot ape are "countered", more like hard checked, but still. he can take a mixmence draco meteor easy as well, so he'd be a good fit as well. either way you choose, itd be a good choice. anyway, hope i helped, and nice team!

I'm sorry, but I don't think I can take any of that advice...

If you look at the type chart, Pokes, and amount of threats I check with them or imagine how a team like this is played you'll understand that it has more than enough synergy and an offensively based team has no need for a defensive core, although this team boasts pretty good bulk overall... so...yeah.

Gliscor couldn't work because of reasons I mentioned above, and Snorlax doesn't help much either, in fact giving an opening to one of the deadliest threats in the metagame that I've worked hard to check more than enough. Ape draws enough Bulky waters and does more damage to them than Gliscor could ever manage, while simultaneously checking Gyarados and Mence two major metagame threats.

Stealth Rocks are vital to this team, making Mence and Gyarados checking easier as well as putting damage on those Pokes who boast T-Spikes immunity. It also allows Ape to score some vital OHKOs at +2, along with the overall weakening of the opponent's Pokes that helps Empoleon so much. Zapdos just isn't an option, especially since I'm not looking to set up Empoleon mid game. The opening comes in the form of something (like DD Babiri Tar) that can't harm Empoleon enough to prevent set up.

^Never saw a bulky Hippowdon without Slack Off or a lead Gliscor without Roost before. Hippowdon's Sand Stream isn't going to help as it will only hinder Infernape and Latias while nulifieng Rotom-h's recovery. Without Swampert, he loses a much needed Rock resist as Empoleon can't be relied upon to switch into Tyranitar as it can carry EQuake. Bronzong is an interesting choice, though I think that would create a small weakness to DD Tyranitar with Babiri Berry. Bronzong will need to be physically bulky to take him on constantly. I think Swampert is fine the way as he is able to deal with Ttar pretty well. The only thing I would suggest is possibly bulky Sub Rotom in place of your current set. I don't think you need Rotom to perform a sweep. With proper bulk, and w-o-w, Rotom can effectivley deal with Scizor and Tyranitar who try to trap with Pursuit. Being able to burn these two is important as they can easily trap Latias who is very important right now, keeping threats like DD Mence in check late game. He also gives you a great switch in against lead Metagross as Roserade is better off switching out due to the 25% chance of Sleep Powder missing and the chance of Metagross carrying Lum Berry.

Rotom-A@Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/ 104 Def/ 152 Spe
-Discharge
-Shadow Ball
-Substitute
-W-o-W

Discharge is pretty useful here, as it has the nice chance to paralyze Latias and Heatran switch ins and thanks to Sub, you won't end up paralyzing Tyranitar by mistake. Once behind a Sub, Rotom can use W-o-W without having to risk the shaky accuracy. Shadow Ball is pretty useful on this set, letting you hit other Ghosts, namely other Rotom-A that are often relied upon to get rid of the Sub in my experience. The Speed EVs put you ahead of Jolly Tyranitar while the rest is put in for bulk.

Good luck

I don't think that was a Lead Gliscor, since he said to replace Pert with it...

Anyway I will consider your Rotom suggestion and test it a bit, but I'm betting I'll find the current one superior simply because it can beat Blissey with ease and at +1-2 it does a ton to Tyranitar, who I outspeed all incarnations of but DD Babiri, who I can set up Empoleon on (this does assume I know the set, but if it DDs up how can I be expected to not know the set?).

DD Babiri Tar loses out my team a ton outside of Bronzong (assuming I add him). Everything hits it Super Effectively, in fact, and without investment in it's defenses it goes down fairly simply from Surfs, Meteors, HP [Fighting], Leaf Storms, and Close Combats.

Heya Ciaran, pretty nice RMT, one of my two suggestions is to change Hidden Power on Rotom with Thunderbolt, since it 2HKOs Blissey after 6 boosts, unless you find Tyranitar a huge problem, (but you have pert for that : ). It will give you a solid move for Lucario, Gyarados, Heatran etc...
Other thing is, you´re actually weak to Empoleon (lol), lets say your Roserade loses the speed tie, they get set up or someone else asleep, and the only member that can take a boosted hit is Latias, which is needed for lots of things, I know you will hate this suggestion but Mach Punch Infernape is worth a try for Jolly Lucario, Empoleon, DD Tyranitar, etc...
I am going to suggest Uxie over Swampert, even when that gives you a bigger weakness to Gengar, actually he can deal considerable damage with his Psychic, givs free set up to Empoleon if he uses Yawn in an Outraging Mence and can still use Stealth Rock, I hope I helped and consider the suggestions I have given, Good Luck!!"!"34234

Rotom with Thunderbolt seems like a decent idea, but as HP [Fighting] does nearly as much when Super Effective and it hits Tyranitar super effective, I'm going to opt to say no to the swap pending other opinions on the matter.

For Mach Punch Ape, I can see what uses it has, but I simply cannot sacrifice any of my current moves for Mach Punch. CC I need to weaken/KO Bulky Waters, Flare Blitz is for Rotom, and Stone Edge allows Ape to draw and KO Mence/Gyara. I just don't see where I can fit it. 4 move syndrome sucks.

For Uxie, I'm gonna have to pass as Gengar becomes an even bigger problem for me and I'd still lose my Mence checking that I would prefer in my Pert replacement.

Thanks for the rates, guys! Keep 'em coming!

 

[Lucalibur]

people have being saying for you to place gliscor on the team right? you say he cant deal with mence but if you give him ice fang and enough evs in atack(or sword dance) you can deal massive damage on mence,also,normaly they run adamant or jolly? if they run adamant you can just use the same jolly speed evs you normaly need to outspeed lucario,jolly with 216 evs on speed,this give enough speed to beat adamant mence before DD(also deal with mix mence in the speed factor) and deal massive damage with ice fang,how i know that? i use gliscor on my team,and he saved me more times i can count....

 

[Stathakis]

this is a cool team. to be honest the only threats that have correctly been identified by any of the raters here are latias and lo starmie (though they are generally a bitch to all empoleon teams). things like empoleon (can barely even find a place to set up and then even if it does, it gets revenge killed) and metagross (all the steel resists that do big damage say hi? oh and leadgrosses dont carry lum berry anymore anyways)


that said, latias is like 100% guaranteed to be a bitch to this team, with the scarfed ones revenge killing empoleon and the cm ones just finding odd places to set up and doing big damage before getting forced out by your only check in the form of scarflatias. lo starmie is also a bitch since it can do lots of damage to everyone on the team, though not as big of a bitch as latias.


i dont want to remove roserade, empoleon, rotom, or infernape, since they form a real cool core, taking good advantage of the toxic spikes and doing big damage to bulky waters which are pretty much the only things that are gonna be able to try and wall their attacks. the other two pokemon, latias and swampert, seem kinda "filler" in that they are pretty much just checking threats. you mentioned the possibility of a switch from swampert to bronzong. I fully endorse that switch, as a simple hypnosis/sr/explosion/gyroball allows you to open holes in the opponent (sleeping one mon then blowing up another) while also checking salamence, and more importantly, latias. having a mon that can just blow up on random threats that try and be dumb is also good. coming into this rate I was thinking you ought to replace scarflatias, but after thinking about it more and more I think she can stay, in order to revenge kill random stuff and being a cure all of sorts to most of your issues while still keeping the offensive idea. lo starmie is still a pretty big bitch to you, though the offensive variants take upwards of 75% from boosted surf iirc, meaning a little bit of ts damage kills it off and the only other guy starmie can come in on is infernape. if you're really that concerned about starmie and latias, you can be really strange and go uturn over stone edge, dealing decent damage to the flying type counters while keeping momentum or whatever (i.e. forcing them to switch away so the next time they come in two sr rolls as well as uturn has put them into very low health), and it also allows you to play the prediction game vs. latias and starmie. personally, I see zero need for it, but it's the easiest way to end your troubles completely (since latias is checked and also revenge killed and starmie cant come in elsewhere) if you're that paranoid. i think just switching to a very special defensive bronzong ought to be just fine for you, though you're forced to play the prediction game against salamence which is never tooo fun. i think checking latias and opening holes against nearly every kind of team is worth it though.

otherwise, the team is fine as is. I would take the time of explaining why things like gliscor are silly on this team, but you've already done that yourself lol.


cheers, and sorry i couldnt really find anything more to fix, if there are any problems after putting bronzong on, let me know and ill see what i can do!

 

[Ciaran]

this is a cool team. to be honest the only threats that have correctly been identified by any of the raters here are latias and lo starmie (though they are generally a bitch to all empoleon teams). things like empoleon (can barely even find a place to set up and then even if it does, it gets revenge killed) and metagross (all the steel resists that do big damage say hi? oh and leadgrosses dont carry lum berry anymore anyways)


that said, latias is like 100% guaranteed to be a bitch to this team, with the scarfed ones revenge killing empoleon and the cm ones just finding odd places to set up and doing big damage before getting forced out by your only check in the form of scarflatias. lo starmie is also a bitch since it can do lots of damage to everyone on the team, though not as big of a bitch as latias.


i dont want to remove roserade, empoleon, rotom, or infernape, since they form a real cool core, taking good advantage of the toxic spikes and doing big damage to bulky waters which are pretty much the only things that are gonna be able to try and wall their attacks. the other two pokemon, latias and swampert, seem kinda "filler" in that they are pretty much just checking threats. you mentioned the possibility of a switch from swampert to bronzong. I fully endorse that switch, as a simple hypnosis/sr/explosion/gyroball allows you to open holes in the opponent (sleeping one mon then blowing up another) while also checking salamence, and more importantly, latias. having a mon that can just blow up on random threats that try and be dumb is also good. coming into this rate I was thinking you ought to replace scarflatias, but after thinking about it more and more I think she can stay, in order to revenge kill random stuff and being a cure all of sorts to most of your issues while still keeping the offensive idea. lo starmie is still a pretty big bitch to you, though the offensive variants take upwards of 75% from boosted surf iirc, meaning a little bit of ts damage kills it off and the only other guy starmie can come in on is infernape. if you're really that concerned about starmie and latias, you can be really strange and go uturn over stone edge, dealing decent damage to the flying type counters while keeping momentum or whatever (i.e. forcing them to switch away so the next time they come in two sr rolls as well as uturn has put them into very low health), and it also allows you to play the prediction game vs. latias and starmie. personally, I see zero need for it, but it's the easiest way to end your troubles completely (since latias is checked and also revenge killed and starmie cant come in elsewhere) if you're that paranoid. i think just switching to a very special defensive bronzong ought to be just fine for you, though you're forced to play the prediction game against salamence which is never tooo fun. i think checking latias and opening holes against nearly every kind of team is worth it though.

otherwise, the team is fine as is. I would take the time of explaining why things like gliscor are silly on this team, but you've already done that yourself lol.


cheers, and sorry i couldnt really find anything more to fix, if there are any problems after putting bronzong on, let me know and ill see what i can do!

You have won the best rater ever award from me! :D

I'm wondering if there's a specific EV spread you'd endorse or if I should go with the standard wall Zong? And do you think I need the extra Sleep support in addition to Rose? Or do you think Light Screen could help take on Mence, Latias, Gengar, and Starmie better? Other than that I think I'm ready to swap the Pert to Zong in the OP and test him further...Yeah.

 

[JLei2k]

You have won the best rater ever award from me! :D

I'm wondering if there's a specific EV spread you'd endorse or if I should go with the standard wall Zong? And do you think I need the extra Sleep support in addition to Rose? Or do you think Light Screen could help take on Mence, Latias, Gengar, and Starmie better? Other than that I think I'm ready to swap the Pert to Zong in the OP and test him further...Yeah.

Zong needs Earthquake over Hypnosis. You are using Toxic Spikes and Sleep Powder already. Zong won't be firing off too many Hypnosis (which has bad accuracy) to make it worth your while. However the main reason is the other part of my Scizor + Latias + Magnezone combination that gives teams so much trouble. Bronzong can't hurt Maggy without blowing up and then that leave you wide open for a CM Refresh Latias sweep. So please do put EQ.

The rest of his advice is excellent but he is kind of an expert on this type of team.

 

[Stathakis]

u__________U total mind blank.... yeah, jlei is completely right though if you want to go really crazy you could like chesto rest and explosion on the same set. obviously that is a really extreme measure and should only be taken if latias is so much of a bitch that you think you need bronzong to be at full health in the middlegame... but yeah id go earthquake and see if its that big a problem first

 

[Ciaran]

u__________U total mind blank.... yeah, jlei is completely right though if you want to go really crazy you could like chesto rest and explosion on the same set. obviously that is a really extreme measure and should only be taken if latias is so much of a bitch that you think you need bronzong to be at full health in the middlegame... but yeah id go earthquake and see if its that big a problem first

I think I'll opt for Earthquake in this case... Thanks for the great advice, you two! I've begun testing with the changes.

 

[iKitsune]

Ive just noticed how unbelievably weak this team is to +2 Lucario. It can OHKO every member on the team, granted getting the SD would be tricky for the opposing player but their would be an oppurtunity after Latias used Draco Meteor.

Currently you only have one solution in Rotom but this cannot be considered a counter until the defense drops and if the Lucario is jolly well, gg. Fortunately for you there is a solution.

Rotom HP Fighting Vs. Lucario:
309 Atk vs 239 Def & 281 HP (70 Base Power): 132 - 156 (46.98% - 55.52%)

I suggest you change Infernape into the Physical Mix set.
The main advantages over your current set is Mach Punch and Overheat.
Mach punch makes an excellent move for checking various threats including Lucario and DD Tyranitar without Latias having the possibility of being pursuited after revenging. Overheat gives Infernape a degree of longevity vs. Flare Blitz and paired with SR and Stone Edge/CC will bring down Bulky waters in just 2 hits. Note it only takes 2CCs to kill vaporeon. Not only this Overheat also does about the same amount as Fire Blast on the special mix set and it can therefore do aload to Defensive Rotoms (it may even OHKO) off the bat.

This is the set:

Infernape @Life Orb
252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive

Overheat
Stone Edge
Close Combat
Mach Punch

Other than that set you could use U-turn over stone edge to hit latias, and to generally cause chaos for the opponent or you could use T Punch to fell Gyarados if that is what you want.

Hope this helps.