Masters of their Art

Texas Cloverleaf

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Their are numerous Pokemon in RU, all of which desperately compete for a team slot. While gimmick Pokemon rise and fall, and certain Pokemon carve out niches roles for themselves, there are those Pokemon who, time and time again, rise to the top of their given art to dominant the competition. Akin to Muhammad Ali in the world of boxing, these Pokemon are the cream to the crop, the best of the in their fields. As Micheal Jordan, Wayne Gretzky or Barry Bonds rose to become the greatest players of all time, so too do these Pokemon rise above the rest to be called masters of their art.

Masters of their art excel at the role they play, whether it be in an offensive, defensive, support, or other capacity. They contributions make them prime choices to be placed on any team needing the services of such a Pokemon, and rarely does another option come along to better it. These Pokemon are those that when placed in direct competition with their peers rise above them in the quest for glory.

Of course, the laws of teambuilding state that such Pokemon cannot be used every time, team synergy does not allow it. Far from hindering the advancement of these Masters of their art, it instead opens the way for more Pokemon to be heralded as champions, as further team slots are used to demonstrate their efficacy.

The purpose of this thread is as follows:
  • Identify Masters of particular arts
  • Explain why such Pokemon excel at their roles
  • Discuss why these Pokemon are able to outstrip their peers and function in the metagame

Such fields of specification include, but are not limited to: physical/special sweeper, physical/special wall, support, wallbreaker, revenge killer, annoyer, and so forth.

As the metagame evolves, so do the threats in the metagame, which can affect the usefulness and indeed status of Pokemon as masters or their craft. This thread can also serve as a place to discuss the points that cause one Pokemon to rise over another. For example, as the metagame progresses does Dusknoir become and better spinblocker than Cofagrigus.


To start with, I present to you these two Pokemon as masters of their craft.

Feraligatr: Physical sweeper

Feraligatr possesses the excellent combination of high attack power, excellent offensive typing, and solid bulk. Capable of using multiple boosting moves, Sworads Dance and Dragon Dance, as well as having access to priority in Aqua Jet, Feraligatr is able to pose a distinct threat to all opposition teams. Whereas many other set up Pokemon find it difficult to comfortably achieve a boost, the combination of Feraligatr's great defensive typing, one that carries only two weaknesses, and above average bulk allows Feraligatr to set up on a greater range of opponents, being able to inherently survive most unboosted attacks. Although it suffers solid checks in Grass-type Pokemon, these Pokemon can be worn down by Feraligatr from the start of the match, leaving an opponent hard pressed to stop Feraligatr from tearing through the opposition.


Manectric: Scout/Late game cleaner
Manectric, despite its somewhat shallow movepool, is a particularly diverse Pokemon that allows it to fulfil its roles to a greater effectiveness than most of its contemporaries could hope to accomplish. With access to Volt Switch, alongside its strong base 105 Special Attack and Speed stats, Manectric functions very effectively as a scout, the eased prediction only amplified by the lack of Ground-types in RU. Manectric can utilise both a Life Orb and Choice tiems to great effect, either becoming a deadly attacker or a blistering revenge killer. Furthermore, Manectric can easily clean through weakened teams with STAB Thunderbolts, particularly should it manage to procure a Special Attack boost thanks to its ability, Lightningrod. To cap it off, Manectric has both an excellent coverage move in Overheat, and a crippling stall breaker in Switcheroo, that allow it to fill the role of Special Attacker, scout, and revenge killer better than almost any other RU Pokemon.

So, what do you think are Pokemon worthy of being called "Masters of their Art?" As the tier has progressed, how has a former Master fallen out of favour due to new conditions?
 


Sharpedo: Late game cleaner (physical or mixed)

A somewhat obvious example; Sharpedo is the epitome of a glass cannon. It can barely take resisted hits and it has no way to boost its attacks, but with the holy grail of abilities, Speed Boost, Sharpedo can become nigh impossible to revenge without priority. Sharpedo's above average mixed attacking stats, respectable dual STABs, and good coverage moves, such as Earthquake and Ice Beam, allow it to bowl over teams that have taken enough residual damage, as well as consistently break common walls with the appropriate move. He even has a priority move of his own, Aqua Jet, to surprise a weakened Hitmonchan. While the shark might have a few strong counters, it is not so hard to remove them and confidently give your opponent the "gg".
 

Kaputops: weather abuser

Kabutops, while it doesn't boast the immense power of solar-power charizard, or ridiculous boosting move of omastar, I honestly believe that kabutops is the best weather abuser in the tier. His fantastic physical bulk and 4x resistance to common fire attacks and no stealth rock weakness can make switching in and setting up quite easy (unlike charizard). A +2 kabutops in the rain is one of the scariest things you can face in the tier. this guy will smash near on everything he encounters, with waterfall and stone edge pummeling everything in sight and aqua jet hitting offensive targets extremely hard, OHKOing all common revenge killers and smashing even those with priority (a thing only omastar could wish for). Once the damage is done, and the rain has died down, he can still clean up himself, finishing off lots of stuff with aqua jet. He's also got a very small list of things that can check him, namely ferroseed and poliwrath. Even tangrowth goes down to a +2 life orb stone edge if he's switching in on a couple of layers of spikes and SR.

Give him the support, and this thing won't dissapoint.
 

November Blue

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Slowking as the best special wall, or maybe even the best wall in RU. Its great typing gives it six resistances including Fire, Ice, Water, and Psychic. Combined with amazing bulk and Slack Off, it can easily wall a whole bunch of Pokemon. Not even super effective hits can break it completely. Slowking has just enough bulk to survive a powerful super effective hit (say, Rotom-C's Volt Switch) and switch out. Just a sliver of health is all it needs. Slowking is like Cell from Dragonball Z; you can attack it and attack it and beat it to death and blow it up all you want, but unless you KO it completely it'll just keep coming back. Between Regenerator, Leftovers, and Slack Off Slowking never stops healing, and even if you get it down to 1% it can restore itself. It can restore itself so easily it's not funny. You can switch it out and save it for a later switchin opportunity against a weak foe, one that can't deal more than 34% to Slowking (or 40% if Leftovers activate) and in a single turn it can recover all the way up to 96%. 1% to 96% in a single turn is godly for a defensive Pokemon, and it isn't even using a strategy like HydraRest or RestTalk.

Then there's the movepool and offenses. Base 100 Special Attack on a Pokemon like Slowking is amazing, and its huge movepool gives it presence on the battlefield (unlike say, Alomomola). A fairly powerful STAB Scald with the burn chance, Dragon Tail for phazing, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, Grass Knot, Ice Beam, Power Gem, Nasty Plot, Thunder Wave ect. The only useful move that's incompatible with Regenerator is Trick. Sucks, but not a huge loss.

Oh, and it pairs perfectly with Tangrowth.

Slowking does everything, and it does it well. Easy "best wall in RU"
 

November Blue

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That being said, how do you quantify which Pokemon are the best? There are so many variances and roles and moves unique to each individual Pokemon that determining the best is really hard. Slowking is bested at sheer tanking by Munchlax, for example, so how do you determine who is better? Which factors do you look at?

You could just cherrypick the top names out of the usage stats though. According to the latest stats, Entei is the best physical attacker in the tier. Sure, it's powerful, fast, has great bulk, good typing both offensively and defensively, has ExtremeSpeed ect.

But it's also vulnerable to residual damage, forced to run an Adamant nature, has a shallow movepool, has no recovery, it sucks against stall teams ...

What if the best physical attacker is Gallade, all the way down at No. 38?
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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In accordance to November Blue's query, what allows a Pokemon to function as a master? Does their typing give them such an advantage as to consistently be the best choice? Is it their uniquely tailored stat spread? Their divers movepool? A combination of all three.

Cherrypicking the top usage stats can be a useful means of gaining a general understanding of which Pokemon are good but cannot be an end-all be-all listing for the simple reason that while a Pokemon may fulfil several roles on a team to a high extent, justifying its presence on the team (the prime example being Claydol), they may not be able to be considered a "master" due to other factors that limit their effectiveness, as outlined for Entei above.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on both this and previous questions posed.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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It seems this thread has gone off topic somewhat, so allow me to clarify the expectations of posting in the thread.
The purpose of this thread is as follows:
  • Identify Masters of particular arts
  • Explain why such Pokemon excel at their roles
This is the piece where you post Pokemon that are masters of their craft, as in the above posts. This portion is appreciated but not necessary for discussion.

  • Discuss why these Pokemon are able to outstrip their peers and function in the metagame
Here is where some of the meat of your post should come in. We want to discuss why some Pokemon work better than others in a similar vein, and to explore what factors cause a Pokemon to become dominant.

As the tier has progressed, how has a former Master fallen out of favour due to new conditions?
Another discussion point, we want to identify what has caused this 'fall from grace', and why former masters are no longer worthy of such a title.

In accordance to November Blue's query, what allows a Pokemon to function as a master? Does their typing give them such an advantage as to consistently be the best choice? Is it their uniquely tailored stat spread? Their divers movepool? A combination of all three.
Furthermore we want to identify what it takes to be a master, what features of a Pokemon give them that distinct edge that allows them to be the best.


This thread is primarily opinion based and conflicts will likely arise, but please keep discussion as civil as possible.


irony, eh


As the tier has progressed, how has a former Master fallen out of favour due to new conditions?
On this point I'd like to mention Munchlax, as at one point it was one of, if not the best special walls in the tier. Being able to comfortably wall both of the dangerous bugs, as well as being able to handle the Shell Smashers with Whirlwind gave Munchlax a niche few others could fill. Furthermore, Munchlax was able to comfortably check Rain and Hail, as well as Sun to a lesser extent, giving a team a good means of avoiding their powerful attacks. As Hail rose in popularity, and powerful Special sweepers such as Lilligant and Porygon-Z became dominant, Munchlax rose to the height of its power, easily being the best special wall in the tier.

So what caused its downfall? The influx of Fighting-types certainly did Munchlax few favours, as rise in Hitmonchan population causing trouble for it. As well, the metagame began to shift from a more specially oriented base to a more balanced one, as mixed sweepers began to rise, and powerful physical attackers such as Durant started to become dominant. Even when a team was primarily special, the onslaught of attacks was often too much for Munchlax to weather repeatedly, causing a sharp drop in popularity. The final nail in its coffin was the notion that Munchlax could only work effectively on stall teams, or more defensive variants of balanced teams, teams which often had need of the overall resistances that something like Slowking could provide as opposed to the raw bulk of Munchlax.
 
Animations are overrated.



Medicham: Choice user

Although Medicham's usage... has room for improvement, it's an extremely capable user of Choice Scarf and Choice Band. In fact, a quick look seems to indicate that it's one of very few Pokémon who commonly use two Choice items (Typhlosion is another notable one). So it's got to be doing something right.

The main reason for bringing up Medicham is its STAB Hi Jump Kick. Sure, it sticks out like a sore thumb and its other moves are ridiculously weak in comparison, but we should give credit to the most powerful immediate, item-independent attack in RU, other than... uh... Slaking's Giga Impact. ...Yeah. This means you can stick on a Choice Scarf and still revenge kill with a ridiculously strong attack that only bulky Psychic-types and Ghost-types can switch into. Another thing you could do is use Adamant Choice Band for MAX POWER, and just wreck whatever the opponent happens to put in its way. Really bulky Psychic-types like Uxie and Claydol can be EV'd not to be 2HKOed by it, but they're often not in a position to KO back, anyway. Sigilyph and Ghost-types are a bit more problematic, though. But hey, if it could easily get past those things, we'd probably have banned it by now.
 

Windsong

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The two most powerful (I'm not going to say outright 'best') weather abusers in the tier are almost undeniably Kabutops and Charizard. Kabu's got a lot going for it on Rain, blasting through basically everything after setting up, luring in and annihilating checks to a ton of common rain sweepers (fuck you Ferroseed) and proving an offensive threat even once the weather goes down. Charizard, on the other hand, is slightly different, aside from being used in Sun rather than Rain. Its main goal isn't to weaken stuff for other sun sweepers - it just needs to break through everything. And yes, that's exactly what it does. With Sun up, literally nothing in the tier is capable of taking on Charizard and coming out on top, including even some of the tier's premier special walls, such as Slowking.

So I suppose I should phrase it something like this.

Charizard/Kabutops
Offensive Juggernauts for Sun and Rain respectively.

Charizard will probably be pretty unanimous, while Kabutops will probably have a bit of debate (Rain gets all those shell smashers etc etc!!!) but be sure to consider when talking about Kabutops that it has an increased threat level to many teams due to the fact that common Rain Checks provide setup for it or outright lose to it.
 

alexwolf

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Windsong i agree with you about Charizard, but i am on the fence about Kabutops.

Imo it is difficult to identify the best rain abuser, because Omastar exists, and he is brutal. He can also sweep outside of rain, which Kabutops struggles to do, having only Aqua Jet for faster threats, and takes priority like a boss, again unlike Kabutops (which however has his own).

So let's look as some counters and checks for both shall we?

If we are looking on an Adamant LO Kabutops under Rain with SD, then we have Physically Defensive Tangrowth and Poliwrath as counters, and we have Qwilfish, Ferroseed, Hitmonchan and Honchkrow as checks.

If we are looking on a Modest LO Omastar under Rain with Shell Smash, then we have Specially Defensive Ludicolo and Slowking as counters and Hitmonchan and Honchkrow as checks.

I know that getting both Rain up and SD/Shell Smash is not easy, and many conditions are not absolute (like natures, moves, etc), but these paragraphs are meant to get some discussion going.

Imo Omastar is the best Rain abuser because of higher power, higher speed after the set-up and the potential to have better bulk if someone decides to use White Herb + some bulk.
 
I have to disagree with you there, alex. The thing with kabutops is that he's nearly impossible to check offensively due to aqua jet. He ohkoes offensive hitmonchan and honchkrow with a +2 aqua jet in the rain with life orb (not to mention any faster scarfer) which is pretty formidable. Omastar is still much more vulnerable to priority but admitedly harder to stop defensively. Where this seems to be pretty even, omastar is overall harder to set up, especially seeing as every decent player will be prepared for shell smash.
 

Cryogonal: Rapid Spinner

Cryogonal is definitely the best rapid spinner in RU. Getting a Rapid Spin off is usually guaranteed without having to use Foresight like Hitmonchan does. This is because Cryogonal beats the most common spin blockers with its high special defense and decent special attack. Ice Beam does 39.8 - 47.36% to a 252 HP/0 SpDef Rotom and 29.37 - 35% to a 252 HP/0 SpDef Cofagrigus. Golurk is another Ghost that is unable to switch in, because Cryogonal outspeeds and carries the super effective Ice Beam. It is also able to stall out Spiritomb and Dusknoir with Toxic, and use Recover to regain health from burn damage. Due to Cryogonal's amazing base 135 Special Defense, it is able to take any special hit and get a Rapid Spin off. Cryogonal should definitely be used over Hitmonchan or Claydol on a balanced or stall team. It's a great Pokemon and the best spinner!
 

alexwolf

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I have to disagree with you there, alex. The thing with kabutops is that he's nearly impossible to check offensively due to aqua jet. He ohkoes offensive hitmonchan and honchkrow with a +2 aqua jet in the rain with life orb (not to mention any faster scarfer) which is pretty formidable. Omastar is still much more vulnerable to priority but admitedly harder to stop defensively. Where this seems to be pretty even, omastar is overall harder to set up, especially seeing as every decent player will be prepared for shell smash.
Yeah but if he has Aqua Jet then he doesn't have either SuperPower or Waterfall which means that he gets walled by max HP Gallade, Ferroseed and Hariyama depending on the move you are missing.

Also Omastar can take most priority hits fairly easy, with White Herb helping him keep his bulk, or move some Spe evs to HP since it already outspeeds everything with SSw + Shell Smash.

Also what do you mean that Omastar is harder to set-up? He is bulkier, which means that he has more set-up oportunites, and is harder to stop after a smash. The only common poke that Omastar cares about is Slowking but even he can be koed after he is weakened a bit or with SR + Spikes.

Although i agree with you that Kabutops is harder to check ofensively, due to Aqua Jet, once you figure out its moveset, it is easier to take care. Of 'course this could cost you a few pokes.
But against Omastar even when you know it's moveset there are not much you can do except from not letting him set-up, or wait for him to go on low health to revenge kill him with priority.
 
One small "complaint" I want to make is that I don't think Slowking should be considered a special wall. Generally, it switches into strong resisted attacks, and it tries to avoid strong super effective attacks. It's really a mixed wall through and through, even if it is typically EVed in a largely specially defensive manner. Its strength is not that it can wall special attacks in general (it can't), but that it can wall powerful attackers both physical and special, including Entei and Moltres, owing to its peculiar typing and Regenerator.
 


Scolipede is the Master of Disaster... er... Hazards.
With 112 base Speed and access to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, this centipede is almost guaranteed to get up a few hazards for you. Its poison-typing gets rid of your opponents Toxic Spikes (should they have them) and it also has access to the excellent STAB Megahorn. Easily outpaces most anything in the tier with Taunt, excepting Aerodactyl and Whimsicott.
 

SkullCandy

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Master of Physical Tanking

Thanks to eviolite Rhydon has regained it's strength from early DP UU in the new RU metagame. Although usually one would first point out Rhydon's excellent Attack it is it's outstanding physical Defense and passable Special Defense that help it stand out of the crowd. 414 / 558 defense is incredible, and allows it to shrug off resisted hits, as well as most nutural hits with ease. It easily walls Scyther, Aerodactyl, Drapion, Electivire, the list goes on. Even super effective hits have to be extremely powerful to take down this behemoth. For example, Scarfed Hitmonlee does downwards of 49.3% with Hi Jump Kick and Golurk does downwards of 56.5% with a Banded Earthquake, not a guaranteed 2HKO.

With a good 297 Attack (or higher depending on how many hits you want Rhydon to dish out) Rhydon can also hit hard off the bat. Stone Edge will always OHKO standard Aerodactyl, Charizard, Moltres and Scyther and Earthquake will 2HKO; Specially Defensive Drapion, Special Tank Lanturn and Shell Smash Omastar (OHKO sometimes after rocks) and OHKO Kabutops, Entei, Magneton and Electivire (though Entei requires rocks for definite OHKO and Kabutops needs only a minimal amount of damage to be KO'ed).
 

Mandibuzz: Special Wall

Mandibuzz, in my opinion, is the best special wall in RU. It has amazing stats and moves for a wall: 110 HP, 105 Def, 95 SpDef, and 80 Speed. It gets access to Taunt, Whirlwind, and Roost which are three great moves. The amount of important RU Pokemon that this thing counters is unreal. Just to name a few: Sceptile, Accelgor, TR NP Cofag, Lilligant, Ludicolo, and Brave Bird destroys the other common Grass and Fighting types. You can also Whirlwind crap like Shell Smash Omastar if you get desperate. 105 Defense helps you against things like Hitmonchan, taking a Drain/Ice Punch and OHKOing with Brave Bird. You will usually get the chance to Roost too, since 80 base speed allows you to outspeed a lot of Pokemon in RU (mainly walls). Mandibuzz also works great on stall teams. Taunt allows you to wreck opposing stall by preventing status, healing, and hazards. Whirlwind will help you rack up damage against the opposing stall teams if you have spikes.

I love Mandibuzz. I've been down 1-4 with just Mandibuzz, and came back with the Taunt/Roost/Brave Bird combination. I'm only posting Pokemon that are uncommon in this thread. Cryogonal and Mandibuzz are two Pokemon that are rarely seen, but they are so good and can potentially be metagame changing. Please try these guys out if you get the chance!
 

Queen of Special Sweepers

What makes Moltres so deadly? 125 special attack (the highest in the tier, I might add), and boosted by a LO. Not only that, but the combination of Fire Blast and Roost lets it outlast a lot of bulky pokemon who also have reliable recovery. HP grass lets it take out bulky waters and rocks, while STAB Airslash is an excellent solution to Hitmonchan. 4x rock weakness? Forget about it! Switch in on something that can't touch you thanks to you adequate 90/90/85 defenses and use roost. Only a small number of revenge killers can take on a Moltres at full health, and very few walls can take it's punishment.
 

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