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NOC Matrix 12 NOC - Game Over, Mafia Wins
- Thread starter Thetwinmasters
- Start date
- Status
Asek
Banned deucer.
before i start did haruni ever specify why i was his lynch? hes just kind of had a vote boner for me from what i can see
Before I go into depth I have to redo my thought on king: His (kings) posts just read as shallow passerby content trying to contribute, when hes asked to elaborate on why he thinks something he just flat out doesnt answer. He provokes other town players through his general playstyle + attitiude. He just keeps tagging in players who have gone AWOL for their 'opinions' (without specifying and kind of question for them BTW) which reads like someone trying to set up activity lynches. He is going to be a detriment to town no matter what as he wont try any gamesolving as we've just seen and centralizes discussion around himself allowing (other) scum to filter away and not post to avoid raising any eyebrows. Nothing king has done has been pro towny - as such I dont see any logical reason for a town at this point to be town reading him - as such I think anyone who IS townreading king is most likely to be scum trying to capitalize off of 'free' town points by calling out a mislynch that is about to occur (likely) or very small chance of one of them being a cop who got a peek (haruno please dont spec off of this). The other option in my eyes is scum who are trying to save a teammate but if i was scum i think i would of just bussed off king by now anyway. Note this doenst constitute a king townread - his posting has been scummy and consistent with past scum king, but im more worried at this point by those people defending him then king himself - i feel if someone like ullar / haruno flipped scum king is almost certainly town which is unfortunate but something i must accept.
Alright I think today I would like to lynch a couple people. Texas Cloverleaf im about to proivde ullar case so tune in. Ullar on #283 is his first post pretty much and its a 'reads list'. Theres not too much to say about this here as its rather shallow in its reasoning imo. However noteworthy thing is ullar disagrees with king lynch - I cant see any logical reason for a townie to oppose a king lynch at this stage as pointed above. He calls fh (who i will touch on in a sec) confused town in a few posts below. Ullar then calls hawkie out on a later post (#344) as trying to jump onto any wagon he can catch - this is what town SHOULD be doing d1 - pushing multiple wagons if someone slips to try get more info and form the best possibile wagon for today. most importantly in this hawkie spat to me however is that ullar seems to break down and go into lashing out at hawkie + king ; this reads to me as pressured scum moreso then pressured town - town has no reason to flail out onto other townies in this situation - they shouldnt feel pressured so much by 1 person pushing onto them, and should be trying to provide reasons for their opinions rather then going full defensive here. Although tbh the most hilarious part of it all is king of all people calling ullars play as not trying to solve them game. What it overall leads me to lean is that ullar tried to pose as town and wasnt prepared for pressure from hawkie and collapsed under that pressure.
for a case on former hope read post #397 as well as the other king white knighting stuff hes been doing. I think out of everyone whos townread king fh is the one I could see being town - if he is town he feels animosity towards josh + myself for pressuring him + voting him earler (im pretty sure josh did this with me??) and would of known we were wrong. As such, he feels like we are pressuring king into a similar situation as the one we were pushing fh with.
Then theres haruno who reads like he knows king flips town for whatever reason, somebody who relies so heavily on power roles like haruno wouldnt usually do that as a town. Short paragraph here but haruno reads like hes trying to flush power roles and his weird confidence i sense in king flipping town which is out of his town game makes me thing he could be scum.
Does this make sense to people? I think this games gonna send me to the loony bin
Before I go into depth I have to redo my thought on king: His (kings) posts just read as shallow passerby content trying to contribute, when hes asked to elaborate on why he thinks something he just flat out doesnt answer. He provokes other town players through his general playstyle + attitiude. He just keeps tagging in players who have gone AWOL for their 'opinions' (without specifying and kind of question for them BTW) which reads like someone trying to set up activity lynches. He is going to be a detriment to town no matter what as he wont try any gamesolving as we've just seen and centralizes discussion around himself allowing (other) scum to filter away and not post to avoid raising any eyebrows. Nothing king has done has been pro towny - as such I dont see any logical reason for a town at this point to be town reading him - as such I think anyone who IS townreading king is most likely to be scum trying to capitalize off of 'free' town points by calling out a mislynch that is about to occur (likely) or very small chance of one of them being a cop who got a peek (haruno please dont spec off of this). The other option in my eyes is scum who are trying to save a teammate but if i was scum i think i would of just bussed off king by now anyway. Note this doenst constitute a king townread - his posting has been scummy and consistent with past scum king, but im more worried at this point by those people defending him then king himself - i feel if someone like ullar / haruno flipped scum king is almost certainly town which is unfortunate but something i must accept.
Alright I think today I would like to lynch a couple people. Texas Cloverleaf im about to proivde ullar case so tune in. Ullar on #283 is his first post pretty much and its a 'reads list'. Theres not too much to say about this here as its rather shallow in its reasoning imo. However noteworthy thing is ullar disagrees with king lynch - I cant see any logical reason for a townie to oppose a king lynch at this stage as pointed above. He calls fh (who i will touch on in a sec) confused town in a few posts below. Ullar then calls hawkie out on a later post (#344) as trying to jump onto any wagon he can catch - this is what town SHOULD be doing d1 - pushing multiple wagons if someone slips to try get more info and form the best possibile wagon for today. most importantly in this hawkie spat to me however is that ullar seems to break down and go into lashing out at hawkie + king ; this reads to me as pressured scum moreso then pressured town - town has no reason to flail out onto other townies in this situation - they shouldnt feel pressured so much by 1 person pushing onto them, and should be trying to provide reasons for their opinions rather then going full defensive here. Although tbh the most hilarious part of it all is king of all people calling ullars play as not trying to solve them game. What it overall leads me to lean is that ullar tried to pose as town and wasnt prepared for pressure from hawkie and collapsed under that pressure.
for a case on former hope read post #397 as well as the other king white knighting stuff hes been doing. I think out of everyone whos townread king fh is the one I could see being town - if he is town he feels animosity towards josh + myself for pressuring him + voting him earler (im pretty sure josh did this with me??) and would of known we were wrong. As such, he feels like we are pressuring king into a similar situation as the one we were pushing fh with.
Then theres haruno who reads like he knows king flips town for whatever reason, somebody who relies so heavily on power roles like haruno wouldnt usually do that as a town. Short paragraph here but haruno reads like hes trying to flush power roles and his weird confidence i sense in king flipping town which is out of his town game makes me thing he could be scum.
Does this make sense to people? I think this games gonna send me to the loony bin
Votecount
King_ (3): Josh, Asek, Paperblade
Ullar (3): Hawkie, Blazade, King_
Asek (2): Shubaka, Haruno
KnightsofCydonia (2): Moodycloud, Texas Cloverleaf
Hawkie (1): Ullar
Josh (1): Hitmonleet
Walrein (1): Jalmont
Not Voting (4): Da Letter El, Walrein, KnightsofCydonia, Former Hope
Reminder that tied vote=no lynch and deadline is in 2 and a half hours.
King_ (3): Josh, Asek, Paperblade
Ullar (3): Hawkie, Blazade, King_
Asek (2): Shubaka, Haruno
KnightsofCydonia (2): Moodycloud, Texas Cloverleaf
Hawkie (1): Ullar
Josh (1): Hitmonleet
Walrein (1): Jalmont
Not Voting (4): Da Letter El, Walrein, KnightsofCydonia, Former Hope
Reminder that tied vote=no lynch and deadline is in 2 and a half hours.
i love asek so far. not sure if it's the same for other people but whenever he assesses my pushes he brings up another great point i never even considered (in this case the fact Ullar TR'd King initially then started jumping down his throat once pressured), suggests to me he's town who's really digging deep
This is why my vote is on Knights atm
I think I buy DLEs argument about King's lack of agenda, his posts have come off completely as resigned town and I'm not confident this is our best lynch today. Grateful for the wagon though, it's given us information to work with (Moody, this is the entire point of building and deconstructing wagons)
Still willing to vote in Knights/Leet/King and I'll give my vote to an Ullar wagon if necessary to prevent a possible tie vote
On that note, Walrein Jalmont Hawkie Hitmonleet Ullar MoodyCloud KnightsofCydonia Shubaka Haruno Josh Asek Paperblade King_ it's time to lock your vote in on your best wagon of choice
this is probably the reason he pushed me + king and not just me after being pressured, as he thought the king lynch was easier
Asek
Banned deucer.
money where my mouth is
vote ullar
Im happy to go with king / haruno / ullar today
oops missed Da Letter El and Former Hope in my tags
i'm honestly undecided on King i hate townies that just lash out under pressure without actually trying to redeem themselves; it does nothing to help their case nd just wastes a full day of the rest of the players debating until they inevitably get lynched. I think he just saw the playerlist and came into this game ready for a fight or something but i'm not too sure about this so i'm not gonna try to save him from the chopping block. I still prefer an Ullar lynch but being rid of King doesn't bother me either
its amazing how misrepresented i am
idk what king_ has posted tbh (nice touch, xenforo removing all quotes of him too), but it wasnt about the game; i reacted poorly to a poor user. it was a personal thing, and idk why everyone is treating it like it's somehow relevant to reads and meta
and tbh im just amazed at hawkie's cherrypicking; theres not a single soul who latched on to fh's "backpedaling" crap, least of all u, but then u actually use it as substantive evidence; idgi
im sorry for not contributing as much as everyone else and that is scummy??? my vote remains on hawkie; im not going to try and tunnel king_ (when have i ever???) because why waste a lynch vote on somebody not playing the game
jiminy cricket folks
idk what king_ has posted tbh (nice touch, xenforo removing all quotes of him too), but it wasnt about the game; i reacted poorly to a poor user. it was a personal thing, and idk why everyone is treating it like it's somehow relevant to reads and meta
and tbh im just amazed at hawkie's cherrypicking; theres not a single soul who latched on to fh's "backpedaling" crap, least of all u, but then u actually use it as substantive evidence; idgi
im sorry for not contributing as much as everyone else and that is scummy??? my vote remains on hawkie; im not going to try and tunnel king_ (when have i ever???) because why waste a lynch vote on somebody not playing the game
jiminy cricket folks
i don't think i'm going to be able to finish this whole thing before deadline and still give myself time to vote lmao
i'm through page 5 right now. here's what i've got solely from those pages:
-Aubisio is town. 90% confidence (yeah I'm breaking my own rule, fight me). Two whole posts from him had more content than all of his other games put together, and the VT claim reads genuine.
-Asek's early content is decent. It's nothing that locks him in as town - as in, I could see him faking this as scum - but it's all generally protown stuff. Plus, I still like his level of investment. Town lean for now. I don't expect us to be able to resolve Asek this early anyways.
-Hitmonleet's entrance is towny. It feels like it has solving intent, and the Texas take is pretty decent.
-Speaking of which, I don't care about any "signaling" he did, I'm sus of Texas for much the same reason leet is - much of what he's done could be seen as pocketing Hawkie (in 92, he townreads him, and in 100 he directly defends him during the FH debacle). 92 has okay content, but it's nothing that scum!Texas couldn't manufacture (the Asek reading the rules thing is the weirdest and by extension towniest thing in that post and even that isn't so farfetched). Even if there's value to this signalling thing, he seems self-aware enough of his own meta to fake it, regardless of what he says.
-Moody's entrance isn't very good. His 104 reads tonally poorly, and his 106 is pretty empty and hedgey. The FH vote is low hanging fruit.
-I'm leaning town on Former Hope, actually. I think him trying to jump on Hawkie's "assumption" that there was a vig shows that he's actively thinking about the setup - since mafia already know the setup, they'll be less likely to be thinking about whether or not somebody has TMI on the setup, I think. The interaction with Hawkie feels genuine and I legitimately get the impression that he's trying to figure out Hawkie's alignment.
-I'm still leaning town on Hawkie. His playstyle seems town motivated - it legitimately seems like he's trying to stir productive discussion and figure out people's alignments, rather than just slinging shit. There's a few things here that I'll be keeping in mind if he does more that pings me, but he's fine for now.
-I'm standing by my Paperblade read from earlier - this tonally is how he always sounds. IDK if I've ever seen his scumgame so I can't say for certain whether or not it's alignment-indicative, but I think it's NAI at absolute worst. Additionally, I find myself agreeing with his thought processes in 118 a lot. Think this one breaks town.
-Hard null on Josh. I legit have no idea. This doesn't resolve itself today.
-Gut reaction is to townread shub for attempting to increase their contribution, but I've seen a similar "trying to improve my playstyle" thing as an opener wind up being scum. Rest is pretty null, there wasn't a ton more from him in what I reread.
-Blazade fitting his town meta. We still don't have scum meta on the guy. Sigh.
-Haruno's postcount-content ratio in the first 125 posts is conspicuous. He RVSes in 19, returns at 64 to say "the fuck is going on", RVSes AGAIN at 69, asks what points are worth addressing at 78, accuses Texas of posting "obvious shit" at 88. The most involved he ever seemed was when I asked him to be civil and he promptly OMGUSed me, then called for setup discussion. From what I read, it didn't seem like he was interested in actually trying to read people. Scumread.
Nobody else posted (or lack of posted) anything of note in the opening pages. Which means I basically have nothing except my skims to go off of for the top 2 (3 if you count Knights) wagons. Sigh.
Let me go do some ISOing I guess. Parking on vote Haruno for now. Anyone I listed above as a townread is someone I'd prefer not to lynch today (why does Asek have 2 votes?)
i'm through page 5 right now. here's what i've got solely from those pages:
-Aubisio is town. 90% confidence (yeah I'm breaking my own rule, fight me). Two whole posts from him had more content than all of his other games put together, and the VT claim reads genuine.
-Asek's early content is decent. It's nothing that locks him in as town - as in, I could see him faking this as scum - but it's all generally protown stuff. Plus, I still like his level of investment. Town lean for now. I don't expect us to be able to resolve Asek this early anyways.
-Hitmonleet's entrance is towny. It feels like it has solving intent, and the Texas take is pretty decent.
-Speaking of which, I don't care about any "signaling" he did, I'm sus of Texas for much the same reason leet is - much of what he's done could be seen as pocketing Hawkie (in 92, he townreads him, and in 100 he directly defends him during the FH debacle). 92 has okay content, but it's nothing that scum!Texas couldn't manufacture (the Asek reading the rules thing is the weirdest and by extension towniest thing in that post and even that isn't so farfetched). Even if there's value to this signalling thing, he seems self-aware enough of his own meta to fake it, regardless of what he says.
-Moody's entrance isn't very good. His 104 reads tonally poorly, and his 106 is pretty empty and hedgey. The FH vote is low hanging fruit.
-I'm leaning town on Former Hope, actually. I think him trying to jump on Hawkie's "assumption" that there was a vig shows that he's actively thinking about the setup - since mafia already know the setup, they'll be less likely to be thinking about whether or not somebody has TMI on the setup, I think. The interaction with Hawkie feels genuine and I legitimately get the impression that he's trying to figure out Hawkie's alignment.
-I'm still leaning town on Hawkie. His playstyle seems town motivated - it legitimately seems like he's trying to stir productive discussion and figure out people's alignments, rather than just slinging shit. There's a few things here that I'll be keeping in mind if he does more that pings me, but he's fine for now.
-I'm standing by my Paperblade read from earlier - this tonally is how he always sounds. IDK if I've ever seen his scumgame so I can't say for certain whether or not it's alignment-indicative, but I think it's NAI at absolute worst. Additionally, I find myself agreeing with his thought processes in 118 a lot. Think this one breaks town.
-Hard null on Josh. I legit have no idea. This doesn't resolve itself today.
-Gut reaction is to townread shub for attempting to increase their contribution, but I've seen a similar "trying to improve my playstyle" thing as an opener wind up being scum. Rest is pretty null, there wasn't a ton more from him in what I reread.
-Blazade fitting his town meta. We still don't have scum meta on the guy. Sigh.
-Haruno's postcount-content ratio in the first 125 posts is conspicuous. He RVSes in 19, returns at 64 to say "the fuck is going on", RVSes AGAIN at 69, asks what points are worth addressing at 78, accuses Texas of posting "obvious shit" at 88. The most involved he ever seemed was when I asked him to be civil and he promptly OMGUSed me, then called for setup discussion. From what I read, it didn't seem like he was interested in actually trying to read people. Scumread.
Nobody else posted (or lack of posted) anything of note in the opening pages. Which means I basically have nothing except my skims to go off of for the top 2 (3 if you count Knights) wagons. Sigh.
Let me go do some ISOing I guess. Parking on vote Haruno for now. Anyone I listed above as a townread is someone I'd prefer not to lynch today (why does Asek have 2 votes?)
Votecount
Ullar (4): Hawkie, Blazade, King_, Asek
Asek (2): Shubaka, Haruno
King_ (2): Josh, Paperblade
KnightsofCydonia (2): Moodycloud, Texas Cloverleaf
Haruno (1): Walrein
Hawkie (1): Ullar
Josh (1): Hitmonleet
Walrein (1): Jalmont
Not Voting (3): Da Letter El, KnightsofCydonia, Former Hope
Ullar (4): Hawkie, Blazade, King_, Asek
Asek (2): Shubaka, Haruno
King_ (2): Josh, Paperblade
KnightsofCydonia (2): Moodycloud, Texas Cloverleaf
Haruno (1): Walrein
Hawkie (1): Ullar
Josh (1): Hitmonleet
Walrein (1): Jalmont
Not Voting (3): Da Letter El, KnightsofCydonia, Former Hope
Asek
Banned deucer.
can you post your top 3 lynches with reasoning for each
a glance at king's ISO this game compared to popcorn reveals that in the midst of his confrontational bullshit he was still trying to elucidate reads - something which he had a tendency not to do in popcorn
this is the closes thing i have to a difference in king's town meta and scum meta
i'm gonna stand by my intial gutread and say i think he's town
this is the closes thing i have to a difference in king's town meta and scum meta
i'm gonna stand by my intial gutread and say i think he's town
literally never seen ullar play mafia (nigga subbed into guzmaf after i died) and this is his first mafia game that i've participated with him so i'd be hesitant to lynch him off that alone until I get more of a feel for him. I'm still most comfortable with an asek lynch but willing to entertain a leet lynch lol
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