I was thinking of giving Snorlax a reskin of Marvel Scale. Snorlax is supposed to barely notice anything when asleep and Sleep counts as a status problem. I might make it less OP (or more OP if you think of it that way), by making it work only in sleep but buffing it.
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Megas For All (Read the whole 1st post and check current slate)
- Thread starter acestriker19
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Rotosect
Banned deucer.
Articuno has proven to be a reliable special wall in custom metagames where it doesn't have to worry about its SR weakness, such as inverse battles (where it still has some crippling weaknesses to grass, bug and ground, but a 4x SR resistance offsets it) and Almost-any-ability with Magic Guard.
So, yes, I agree Magic Guard is the best option.
Even though flavor-wise Magic Guard might raise a few eyebrows, consider the following: Articuno is still part of a trio, with each member emphatizing a certain stats spread. Articuno is defensive, Zapdos is speedy and Moltres is offensive. Sounds familiar? It's the exact same deal with Vaporeon/Jolteon/Flareon and Entei/Suicune/Raikou.
The fire/electric/ice(water) trio is usually handled this way.
In other words, if Mega Articuno is getting a powerful defensive ability, I would suggest to give Zapdos one that emphatizes speed (Speed Boost might be a bit too much though) and Moltres one that emphatizes offense.
So, yes, I agree Magic Guard is the best option.
Even though flavor-wise Magic Guard might raise a few eyebrows, consider the following: Articuno is still part of a trio, with each member emphatizing a certain stats spread. Articuno is defensive, Zapdos is speedy and Moltres is offensive. Sounds familiar? It's the exact same deal with Vaporeon/Jolteon/Flareon and Entei/Suicune/Raikou.
The fire/electric/ice(water) trio is usually handled this way.
In other words, if Mega Articuno is getting a powerful defensive ability, I would suggest to give Zapdos one that emphatizes speed (Speed Boost might be a bit too much though) and Moltres one that emphatizes offense.
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For some reason I would like to bring back a CAP ability for at least one of these 4 Megas. (I will participate for all, BTW)
2x Def when asleep? Sounds good.
This gave me an idea. What if Snorlax had a custom ability that makes the opposition take recoil damage when Snorlax is hit by a physical move? Call it Rebound or something because the physical moves will be bounced back off of his fat. This would discourage pokemon from attacking him on his weaker defense. Obviously you'd still buff his defense a fare bit so it won't be as 'meh' as it is now, but I'd still like to keep his SpD much higher than his Def. Of course he's getting Slack Off, it has to happen, 98% of Snorlax's life is spent slacking off.
This is probably what I'll be doing.
OMG! When I talked about keeping Snorlax's SpD much higher than his Def I was thinking that Snorlax may become a more offensively threatening Blissey, which in turn made me think...
I can't wait till MEGA-BLISSEY!!! XD
I get why everyone wants Slack Off on Snorlax but there's a reason it doesn't get it. There's a difference between slacking off and sleeping (i.e. REST). Mega Snorlax should be built around making Rest usable. Like allowing it to attack while asleep (but it does less damage, like 75%). Because Snorlax is rarely awake, it only wakes up to eat.
I really like Dinesh's idea of Snorlax going to sleep each time it switches out. Full recovery for vulnerability is an interesting trade-off.
Snorlax is one of my favorite pokemon. I use him on roughly half of my VGC teams. He's already in possession of some competitive value. This time we really, REALLY need to focus on not outclassing Snorlax with his mega. SO, I've thought of something completely different.
Does this scene look familiar to anyone?
No? How about this one?
This one?
THIS ONE?
Snorlax's thing for literally generations has been to block the FUCK out a path. You can't move that shit. You're trapped, son.
SO, with over half a ton of 'Lax in your face, how you gonna go anywhere?
Hence my reasoning for Mega Snorlax to have Arena Trap.
Flavorwise, I think this is rather brilliant, if I'm honest (my modesty is overpowering). It differentiates from normal Snorlax greatly, and has a new competitive niche. This would give Snorlax a much more offensive role, and a great one at that.
Does this scene look familiar to anyone?
No? How about this one?
This one?
THIS ONE?
Snorlax's thing for literally generations has been to block the FUCK out a path. You can't move that shit. You're trapped, son.
SO, with over half a ton of 'Lax in your face, how you gonna go anywhere?
Hence my reasoning for Mega Snorlax to have Arena Trap.
Flavorwise, I think this is rather brilliant, if I'm honest (my modesty is overpowering). It differentiates from normal Snorlax greatly, and has a new competitive niche. This would give Snorlax a much more offensive role, and a great one at that.
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Arena Trap is either used by the power of mind (Mega Gengar or Gothitelle) or quick physical movements (Diglett, Dugtrio, Trapinch) to prevent the opponent from switching out. Snorlax doesn't justify either of these. If anything, Snorlax with its slow movements and care-free attitude should enable the opponent to switch out more easier.
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning
Fuckin TRAPINCH has arena trap
Gothitelle and Mega G have Shadow Tag
re Arena Trap Snorlax - it's a pretty cool idea, but the problem you have is in stopping a M-Snorlax with Arena Trap from being completely overpowered. It could potentially switch safely into and trap almost every grounded special attacker in the metagame; just as an example, Heatran would be almost unusable. There isn't really a way around that, since you can't nerf its stats, short of giving it a custom ability which has a detrimental effect added to Arena Trap.
Oh and Rosen, you can keep the tip.
Oh and Rosen, you can keep the tip.
This is a concern, yes, but I'm sure if Snorlax got a lot of usage, Shed Shell would be much more common (like on Blissey in Ubers and on Skarmory in Gen V when Magnezone was everywhere.)
Plus, stuff like Air Balloon would probs gain more usage, as that allows for escape as well.
Dugtrio and Trapinch have arena trap because they dig holes in the ground, where pokemon that fall in cannot escape. Snorlax is just... there. It's not necessarily an arena he traps you in, due to the fact that you can just go around it (no matter how far the distance).
Shadow Tag, on the other hand, uses some kind of "magical stuff" to ensure that the pokemon does not escape.
Also trapping moves on most pokemon are really op. Dugtrio and Goth were trash in the first place.
You're my favorite
I'll call it something else, then, but I'd like it to be pretty much the same effect.
It already learns Block, which is the same thing essentially.
Mega Gengar and Gothitell have Shadow Tag which follows a different logic than Arena Trap.
Trapinch is slow and weak, it couldn't realistically prevent an opponent from escaping. Plus Snorlax gets Block which is basically Arena Tarp in move form.
Hey guys, what about no guard Omastar? The pokedex entries say that it went extinct because it's huge shell slowed it down and it couldn't catch any food. So, upon mega evolving it would make sense to get rid of the weakness that was bad enough to make it go extinct, right? So, why not get a smaller shell, thus gaining speed and no guard in the process?
And guys, you do remember that thing about the normal pokemon gaining the moves too, right? So, if you give snorlax, an uu pokemon, slack-off you are creating an ou pokemon before mega-evolving.
And guys, you do remember that thing about the normal pokemon gaining the moves too, right? So, if you give snorlax, an uu pokemon, slack-off you are creating an ou pokemon before mega-evolving.
View attachment 14522
Honestly though, even though Trapping Abilities automatically induce fear into the hearts of opponents, compared with Shadow Tag, Arena Trap really isn't that bad. Here's all the OU mons not affected by Arena Trap:
S Rank
Landorus
Thundurus
A+ Rank
Charizard (Mega-Y)
Pinsir (Mega)
Talonflame
A Rank
Dragonite
Gengar
Landorus-T
Latios
A- Rank
Latias
Mandibuzz
Rotom-W
Skarmory
B+ Rank
Gliscor
Gyarados
Zapdos
B Rank
Tornadus-T
B- Rank
Aerodactyl (Mega)
Staraptor
I only went to B- for now, but that's a fairly sizeable list. I could include ones that can viable run Shed Shell or Air Balloon, but that'd take up more time than I have at the moment.
Lots of members of this list are currently very viable in OU, which is nice to know. Whereas if it was Shadow Tag, the only ones on here would be Gengar and Aegislash.
Plus, the thing holding Snorlax back here would be its speed. Lots of things could outspeed it and do some serious physical damage, such as Mega Pinsir, Conkeldurr (Mega and non-mega), Mega Heracross, Azumarill, Mega Mawile, Mega Marowak, Mega Charizard X, Terrakion, Keldeo, Mega Medicham, etc.
Clearly, I'm fairly enthusiastic about Arena Trap (or something very similar) on Snorlax, as I think it fits excellently flavorwise and could bring some heavy stuff (no pun intended) to the OU Meta. But I wouldn't be pushing it so much if it was broken beyond belief. Arena Trap is nowhere near as broken as Shadow Tag, and plenty of things could switch out of it without any changes, and others could run items such as Shed Shell or Air Balloon that would also have uses outside of escaping Arena Trap alone. Plus, since I intend on keeping Snorlax a mono-Normal type, literally anything with U-Turn or Volt Switch would have no problem working their way around this bad boy. That being said, Arena Trap is still a very good ability, and checks a lot of incredibly dangerous pokemon.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/scizor.3506080/
Honestly though, even though Trapping Abilities automatically induce fear into the hearts of opponents, compared with Shadow Tag, Arena Trap really isn't that bad. Here's all the OU mons not affected by Arena Trap:
S Rank
A+ Rank
TalonflameA Rank
Dragonite
Gengar
Landorus-T
LatiosA- Rank
Latias
Mandibuzz
Rotom-W
SkarmoryB+ Rank
Gliscor
Gyarados
ZapdosB Rank
B- Rank
Aerodactyl (Mega)
I only went to B- for now, but that's a fairly sizeable list. I could include ones that can viable run Shed Shell or Air Balloon, but that'd take up more time than I have at the moment.
Lots of members of this list are currently very viable in OU, which is nice to know. Whereas if it was Shadow Tag, the only ones on here would be Gengar and Aegislash.
Plus, the thing holding Snorlax back here would be its speed. Lots of things could outspeed it and do some serious physical damage, such as Mega Pinsir, Conkeldurr (Mega and non-mega), Mega Heracross, Azumarill, Mega Mawile, Mega Marowak, Mega Charizard X, Terrakion, Keldeo, Mega Medicham, etc.
Clearly, I'm fairly enthusiastic about Arena Trap (or something very similar) on Snorlax, as I think it fits excellently flavorwise and could bring some heavy stuff (no pun intended) to the OU Meta. But I wouldn't be pushing it so much if it was broken beyond belief. Arena Trap is nowhere near as broken as Shadow Tag, and plenty of things could switch out of it without any changes, and others could run items such as Shed Shell or Air Balloon that would also have uses outside of escaping Arena Trap alone. Plus, since I intend on keeping Snorlax a mono-Normal type, literally anything with U-Turn or Volt Switch would have no problem working their way around this bad boy. That being said, Arena Trap is still a very good ability, and checks a lot of incredibly dangerous pokemon.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/scizor.3506080/
Attachments
True, it doesn't trap that much. The problem is something like a combo of (special Dragon) + Snorlax. Snorlax traps Clefable/Sylveon/Chansey/Heatran with impunity, and some variants of Tyranitar. Considering this alone would practically force defensive players to run Togekiss or the right TTar set, it seems way too abuseable.
In addition, literally every grounded Pokemon that couldn't 3HKO a Curse-boosting M-Snorlax would be forced to run Taunt/Roar/Whirlwind/Encore/Perish Song, or their team would be potentially swept by a +6/+6 Lax.
In addition, literally every grounded Pokemon that couldn't 3HKO a Curse-boosting M-Snorlax would be forced to run Taunt/Roar/Whirlwind/Encore/Perish Song, or their team would be potentially swept by a +6/+6 Lax.
I'll keep brainstorming, as I would love to give Snorlax the ability to trap.
What if his base speed was kept the same (max 174), and anything with a speed greater than 1.5x this stat could escape? So anything with a speed stat higher than 261 wouldn't be trapped. Anything with a base 70 speed and a speed boosting nature with 252 speed EVs could escape. This applies to Jolly Breloom/Bisharp, and Heatran wouldn't have a problem at all, whereas 'Lax could still trap stuff like Chansey, Aegislash, Clefable, Sylveon, Quagsire, etc.
This way, Snorlax's trapping capabilities would be much more manageable, while still having a decent impact on the meta, forcing stuff like Heatran and Venusaur to run speed EVs to beat the 261 benchmark, something they previously wouldn't have had to worry about.
Although I might change this up to be 1.7x or something, as being forced to run max speed on Snorlax really is a waste and would severely limit him defensively and offensively.
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Rosenfeldius I think you're forgetting Aegislash - Ghosts can't be trapped by any means (I think?)
I like the idea of Snorlax blocking - if the whole Arena Trap flavour thing is really an issue for people, then it's a simple matter of making a clone ability with a different name (à la Huge Power vs. Pure Power, Teravolt/Turbolbaze/Mold Breaker).
There's nothing that means the megas can't end up in ubers right? I mean the power creep in this meta is potentially ridiculous enough that Mega Snorlax with trapping powers wouldn't even be that overpowered (though I doubt it). Not saying, intentionally make it the brokenest thing, but the worst that can happen is to give it a try.
Edit: also worth mentioning, it wouldn't be trapping until the second turn.
I like the idea of Snorlax blocking - if the whole Arena Trap flavour thing is really an issue for people, then it's a simple matter of making a clone ability with a different name (à la Huge Power vs. Pure Power, Teravolt/Turbolbaze/Mold Breaker).
There's nothing that means the megas can't end up in ubers right? I mean the power creep in this meta is potentially ridiculous enough that Mega Snorlax with trapping powers wouldn't even be that overpowered (though I doubt it). Not saying, intentionally make it the brokenest thing, but the worst that can happen is to give it a try.
Edit: also worth mentioning, it wouldn't be trapping until the second turn.
He's making a custom ability.
I'm thinking that the way to go for Mega Snorlax would be to give it a brand new ability - I'm thinking an ability called "Fat" which is basically Fur Coat, but trading the ability to 50% damage from all physical moves for a the ability to take 75% damage taken from both physical and special attacks. Like Fur Coat, it is negated by Mold Breaker, Turboblaze and Teravolt. Like this:
Snorlax --> Mega Snorlax
Typing: Normal --> Normal
Ability: Immunity / Thick Fat / Gluttony (Hidden) --> Fat
Stats: 160 HP / 110 Atk / 65 Def / 65 SpA / 110 SpD / 30 Spe --> 160 HP / 180 Atk / 85 Def / 65 SpA / 120 SpD / 30 Spe
I get the idea behind Arena Trap (or a clone that fits the theme of Snorlax), but I think this makes much more sense for a Snorlax than any trapping ability imo. I'm drawn to either this or that attacking in sleep ability suggested by Mega Mantine as the other sleep-based ability (the one which is a rest every time you switch out) is literally broken. A full heal when you switch out is just too OP, and it doesn't matter if it makes it "vulnerable" because it is still a Rest on every switch, making it basically an OP Regenerator.
Also, Slack Off on Snorlax makes sense at a glance, but then you realize that Snorlax does nothing but sleep and eat until you use a Pokéflute and capture it, so it isn't technically 'slacking off'.
Snorlax --> Mega Snorlax
Typing: Normal --> Normal
Ability: Immunity / Thick Fat / Gluttony (Hidden) --> Fat
Stats: 160 HP / 110 Atk / 65 Def / 65 SpA / 110 SpD / 30 Spe --> 160 HP / 180 Atk / 85 Def / 65 SpA / 120 SpD / 30 Spe
I get the idea behind Arena Trap (or a clone that fits the theme of Snorlax), but I think this makes much more sense for a Snorlax than any trapping ability imo. I'm drawn to either this or that attacking in sleep ability suggested by Mega Mantine as the other sleep-based ability (the one which is a rest every time you switch out) is literally broken. A full heal when you switch out is just too OP, and it doesn't matter if it makes it "vulnerable" because it is still a Rest on every switch, making it basically an OP Regenerator.
Also, Slack Off on Snorlax makes sense at a glance, but then you realize that Snorlax does nothing but sleep and eat until you use a Pokéflute and capture it, so it isn't technically 'slacking off'.
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