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Meloetta

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Xelacalle, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    63
    So I started playing a little OU recently on Showdown. I made a few weather teams but I wasn't really enjoying playing them because, really, I was just using what most other people use. Then I see someone using Meloetta, which I never realised had been released, and thought I would try it.

    This team, then, is based around Meloetta. I made it and tested it a little over the course of the past couple of hours but I am not completely happy with it. Most of the pokes are standard but in using Meloetta I'm using something which you don't see often, so I'm happy in that respect.

    The Original Team

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Team Building Process

    Show Hide
    This will be fairly short as I haven't changed out any Pokemon yet!

    Obviously, I started with Meloetta. I decided to use a physically attacking Relic Song set (after toying with using a mix set, with replacing one of the physical attacks with Psychic).

    [​IMG]

    The first thing that stuck me here is that my Meloetta has to use Relic Song to set up. As it is a normal-type attack, it cannot hit ghost-types so I would need something (preferably dark-type, as Meloetta is weak to Fighting after Relic Song) to deal with those. I listed all the dark-types in OU and UU and circled Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Krookodile, Scrafty and Sharpedo for consideration. In the end, I went with Hydreigon as it is more of a special attacker, balancing with Meloetta. I also put a Choice Scarf on it, as I like to have something which can scout with U-Turn/Volt Switch on my teams.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    After doing this, I looked at the ghost-types in the tier. I very quickly realised that Hydreigon could do very little to Jellicent, it being very specially bulky, so I looked at my list of Dark-types again. The one that stood out to me was Sharpedo, as it is not weak to Jellicent's STAB Scald and can hit fairly hard straight away, as long as it's not predicted and Will-O-Wisped. I did, however, decide to leave Hydreigon where it was, but removed Dark Pulse in favour of Focus Blast.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The next thing I realised was that steel types were going to be a problem. Unless I predicted well with Hydreigon, it would be perfect setup material for them, and I'm pretty sure that Ferrothorn could give Meloetta problems with Iron Barbs, Life Orb and Leech Seed/Attack damage racking up. The obvious choice was Magnezone with Hidden Power Fire.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    All through this process I was noticing a disturbing weakness to fighting. In P forme, Meloetta is weak to it, and so are all my other pokemon. So I went for a defensive pokemon that could deal with that - Gliscor. Gliscor has pretty good synergy with Magnezone as it is immune to Earthquake. While Hydreigon has Levitate, there are some pokes with EQ that I don't really want to switch it into. I could have chosen Jellicent here, but to be honest, I didn't think about it at the time. (Also, I'm not sure what I would use for taking physical hits if I had Jellicent as my special wall. Maybe Zapdos?)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    For my final pokemon I just wanted something to sponge special hits which had good synergy with Gliscor. I went with Jirachi, although again I suppose Jellicent could fill this role fairly nicely. Again, I didn't think of Jellicent at the time. However, having Wish is very useful, especially with both Meloetta and Sharpedo racking up Life Orb recoil.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    In Detail

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Rhythmic (Meloetta) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Relic Song
    - Quick Attack
    - Close Combat
    - Shadow Claw
    Meloetta is the Pokemon my entire team is based around. In a sense, it is a set up sweeper, as it requires one turn to set up. However, instead of being afraid of taunt-users walling it, it is completely walled by Ghost types, as long as they switch in before Relic Song is used. If they are fairly weak (eg, Gengar) then Shadow Claw can be used to take them out, but the likes of Jellicent and Eviolite Dusclops are another story. Close Combat is your standard powerful STAB attack, Quick Attack gives some nice STAB priority damage, and Shadow Claw is to give coverage to those pesky aforementioned Ghost Types.

    [​IMG]
    Thundaja (Thundurus-T) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch
    Thundurus-T was added at the suggestion of Novaray, and I am very pleased with it thus far! It serves the purpose of Hydreigon much more effectively, allowing me to outspeed threats which ruined me before, such as Choice Scarf Salamence.
    Note: As I don't have BW2 yet I am currently using a Scarfed Zapdos in this slot on Pokemon White, but Thundurus-T on Pokemon Showdown.
    Original Text:
    Hydreigon is the Pokemon I am most dubious about on this team. Its annoying 98 base speed makes it a liability in some cases and with the removal of Dark Pulse and addition of Sharpedo it no longer has a use besides a scouting/revenge killing role, the former of which can be done by other Pokemon and the latter Sharpedo can do with little trouble. Because of this, I have been considering replacing it, possibly with a Choiced Scarfed Chandelure. However, this would mean no U-Turn/Volt Switch and also the removal of Magnezone (especially if Shadow Tag is released soon).

    [​IMG]
    Vector (Sharpedo) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Ice Fang
    - Protect
    Sharpedo was originally added to deal with Jellicent. However, that is not all it's good for! After a single protect it outspeeds pretty much everything in the metagame, making it an excellent revenge killer and potent sweeper in it's own right. I chose Ice Fang over Earthquake because I was having trouble with Salamence and Dragonite.

    [​IMG]
    Scar (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
    Nature: Impish
    Moveset:
    -Roost
    -Spikes
    -Whirlwind
    -Brave Bird

    Skarmory was added at the suggestion of pwnage77 as a check to Landorous-T (which could previously have ruined the team if carrying HP Ice) and Dragonite.
    Original Text:
    Another Pokemon with the potential for removal, Magnezone is here only for getting rid of the Steel types which could be a pain to my team. A misprediction from Hydreigon gives Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Foretress and SD Scizor time to set up. As I have never even tried to use Magnezone before, the EV spread and moveset was taken directly from the Smogon site, and it seems to work fine so far. edit: I think that if Shadow Tag is released this will probably be replaced with a Calm Mind Chandelure. It can do the same job and has better coverage with Thundurus-T, as well as being immune to the Fighting type moves Sharpedo and Meloetta hate.

    [​IMG]
    Vlad (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 40 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    I'm not really sure about Gliscor. I think it works well in this team - it's immune to electric type attacks directed at Sharpedo (or just generally coming from Thunderus) as well as Ground type attacks hitting Magnezone (after the balloon pops!) It also resists fighting type attacks which the rest of my team is fairly weak to. It is my defensive wall and that's all there is to say, really. The EVs here were taken from Smogon, simply because I know that a lot of Gliscors don't use max defense and some in speed, and I don't really fully understand the speed tiering, or how natures affect stats, etc.

    [​IMG]
    Whichrachi (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    I wasn't really sure what to put in this slot. I wanted a Special Wall. After much deliberation, I realised Jirachi was a great choice. It has great synergy with Gliscor. It also serves as a Stealth Rocker and Wish-passer. Whenever I see Wish without Protect I get a little nervous, but Jirachi has the bulk to handle it. Besides, the Rocks can only help Meloetta and Sharpedo sweep, and the Wishes can heal them of all their Life Orb recoil, and potentially give them a safe switch. It's also pretty much the only Pokemon I have that can take a Hurricane from Tornadus-T, although Superpower and Heat Wave could be problematic. The EV spread was, again, taken from Smogon, for the same reason as Gliscor.


    So that's my team, one of the first I've made seriously for OU. I know it isn't perfect, and any criticism and advice you can give would be most appreciated. As I've already said, my main qualms with the team lie with Hydreigon and, by extension, Magnezone.
    Also, I would prefer not to remove Meloetta seeing as my entire team is designed around it! But changing it's set or EVs is fine.​

    edit: Changes now in bold
  2. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    63
    Thanks Expert Physics! I will definitely apply those changes to Jirachi asap. I hadn't thought about the T-Wave immunity thing, which is amusing seeing as I use parafusion Lanturn a lot in the lower tiers, as well as Thunderus-T and Mamoswine in OU! I don't seem to see Haxorus much but it does scare me when I do - it would certainly be very nice to feel like its Outrage isn't a problem.
    Thanks again!
  3. Nova

    Nova Deft
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    Hi Xelacalle

    Solid team you have here, I'm really excited to see someone posting an RMT featuring Meloetta. Now looking at your team, one of the major threats to it is Swords Dance Lucario. After a Swords Dance, Lucario hits your entire team hard with Close Combat, as well as using Ice punch to eliminate Gliscor and Extremespeed to bypass the speed of Hydreigon and Sharpedo. For this threat, I recommend changing Gliscor's EV spread to a faster one of 244 HP / 40 Def / 220 Spd with an Impish nature. This spread allows you to outspeed Adamant Lucario and dispatch of the threat with Earthquake before they hit you with Ice Punch. I would also suggest Substitute over Ice Fang on Gliscor. Substitute allows you to Toxic stall your opponent out by alternating between Substitute and Protect while recovering HP with Poison Heal. With the faster EV spread, Gliscor can outspeed the onsite Bulky Attacker Rotom-W, allowing you to Toxic stall out the washing machine if you Toxic or Substitute on the switch.

    Now with your dissatisfaction with Scarf Hydreigon, I suggest replacing him with Choice Scarf Thundurus-T with a moveset of Thunderbolt / Volt Switch / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice. Scarf Thundurus-T's higher speed stat compared to Hydreigon's allows him to outspeed Scarf Moxie Salamence and Jirachi as well as Volcarona after a Quicer Dance. He also speedties with other Scarf Thundurus-T and Landorus who would otherwise prove threatening to your team. Lastly, Thundurus-T has access to Volt Switch allowing you to still maintain switch advantage and can also wreck Ferrothorn and Heatran with Focus Blast.

    Lastly, just a small change but the 4 HP EVs on Meloetta should be placed into Special Defense. Doing this gives Meloetta an odd HP number, maximizing the number of times she can switch into Stealth Rock. Meloetta with 4 HP Evs has an HP stat of 342 which means she can only switch into Stealth Rock 8 times while Meloetta with no HP EVs has an HP stat of 341 and therefore can switch into SR 9 times.

    Hope I helped and good luck with your team!


    Sets:
    Show Hide

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 40 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    -Earthquake
    -Toxic
    -Substitute
    -Protect

    Thundurus-T (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -Thunderbolt
    -Volt Switch
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power [Ice]



    tl;dr
    Show Hide

    Gliscor's EV spread ----> 244 HP / 40 Def / 220 Spd with Impish nature
    Ice Fang on Gliscor ----> Substitute
    Choice Scarf Hydreigon ----> Choice Scarf Thundurus-T
    4 HP EVs on Meloetta ----> 4 Special Defense EVs
  4. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    63
    Thanks Novaray!

    I had, as always, not considered Lucario. I was thinking of look through the threat list and seeing what my team can't check or counter, but didn't get round to it. I see that changing Gliscor's EVs to the ones you suggested would solve this problem, but might it mean I can no longer check other physically offensive pokes? I will be looking at that shortly.

    In regards to Thundurus-T, I think I will definitely be using him. In my last battle I was cleaned up by Choice Scarf Moxie Salamence, with my Hydreigon and Meloetta remaining. However, in replacing Hydreigon, does it make Magnezone less useful? Would I be better replacing it with something that doesn't share one of Thundurus's STABs?

    Finally, this is one of the finer points if the EVs I always forget. I know to make sure that pokemon which are 4x weak to Rocks have odd HP values, but I always forget for everything else!

    Thank-you again for the advice, I will change everything you have suggested immediately, along with looking at the usefulness of Magnezone and what I can and cannot check.
  5. CrackinSkulls

    CrackinSkulls

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    208
    As cool as meloetta is i really believe that on this team a SD lucario will be far more effective. He also only has 1 turn set up (although with a considerable decrease in bulk) and hits a LOT harder due to the +2 boost. He has E-Speed over Quick Attack and although he can't outspeed and KO Gengar you can run crunch to prevent a switch in. his weakenesses are also covered well by your team. i will post the set later with some more advice gtg and good luck
  6. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    63
    CrackinSkulls, I agree that SD Lucario would be much better, and would greatly appreciate the advice you wish to give on that matter, it may be that I use him in this team over Meloetta when I get bored of her, or if she drops to UU. However, while SD Lucario deals more damage and isn't walled by ghosts quite so much, however there is a benefit to using Meloetta: Relic Song.

    Not only does Relic Song allow Meloetta to change typing and weaknesses to adapt to a situation, it also has a 20% chance (with Serene Grace) to put the defending Pokemon to sleep. It's also not stopped by taunt users or, although really seen, Unaware users. I have also heard that it does not break the Sleep Clause, as it is required for a Physical Meloetta to set up (it certainly does not seem to break it on PS, perhaps there should be a Relic Song clause).

    Besides, I like to use at least one Pokemon or set you don't often see in the metagame in my teams. I use a Guts Flareon-based team a lot in NU, and I am trying a Specially Defensive Gallade (Wish/Protect/Will-O-Wisp/Drain Punch) team in RU. That one still needs tweaking.

    tl;dr I won't be changing Meloetta on this team but I would appreciate your advice all the same - I may just make a copy of the team with Lucario for when I actually want to play seriously :)
  7. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    uh i just noticed. Substitute Landorus-T could screw up your team even with just a substitute up. It could potentially sweep your team if not for Gliscor. If it carries HP Ice, then your team could have trouble

    I suggest for you to use Skarmory to deal with Landorus-T. Sure it will perform the same job as Gliscor but then, it has the perk of being able to set up Spikes/Stealth Rock.

    Skarmory@Leftovers/Shed Shell
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
    Nature: Impish
    Moveset:
    ~ Roost
    ~ Spikes / Stealth Rock
    ~ Whirlwind
    ~ Brave Bird / Taunt

    Skarm could replace your Magnezone since Thundurus-T already checks pretty much all of the pokemon that Magnezone can, save for ferrothorn. But anyway, it can check Substitute Landorus-T carrying pretty much anything on the last slot (but not HP Fire). It can also check Dnite which your team could also have trouble. Thundurus-T can't OHKO with HP Ice if multiscale is intact. Another bonus is that Skarm can set up spikes to help Meloetta sweep since it doesn't have a boosting move. However, if you choose to go for stealth rock, jirachi can finally free up the slot SR takes and use protect to ensure the wish heal and to scout choice moves.
  8. Xelacalle

    Xelacalle

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    63
    Thanks pwnage, I'm finding that Magnezone does not get much use on this team (save to deal with Ferrothorn) I think I will probably do that. I think I will leave Rocks on Jirachi though, as that will allow me to set up some hazards whether under pressure by Physical or Special Attackers.
    Thanks again for the help :)

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