Mesprit [qc 2/3]

ryan

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Overview
########
- simply a god.
- most versatile pkmn in NU
- great stats, coverage, and support movepool
- outclassed defensively by Uxie, but tbh who cares
- psychic typing alone sucks ass

Life Orb
########
name: Life Orb
move 1: Psychic / Psyshock
move 2: Energy Ball / Signal Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Healing Wish / Calm Mind
ability: Levitate
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

Moves
========
- Psychic/HW and Psyshock/CM correspond
- Psychic for STAB, Psyshock helps in CM wars
- Energy Ball has great coverage against stuff that is generally really bulky like Seismitoad and Rhydon
- Signal Beam is another great coverage option that hits most of Mesprit's best checks (bulky Psychics and Darks)
- HP Fire for Ferroseed
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt hit Xatu and are generic good coverage options, work better on CM over Energy Ball because of better neutral coverage

Set Details
========
- Timid nature outspeeds opposing neutral Speed Mesprit, Kabutops, Zangoose, Kangaskhan, but the extra power from Modest helps a lot in breaking down bulky walls. Examples include 2HKOing Audino 70% of the time with Psyshock after Rocks and a high chance of OHKOing SpDef Flareon after Stealth Rock with Psyshock
- Life Orb is necessary for the additional power, but Lum and Leftovers are fine choices if running CM
- Should probably use only Timid on CM if running LO

Usage Tips
========
- Use as a wallbreaker. With its amazing coverage and good Special Attack, not much wants to take it on.
- Try to get up hazards to help support Mesprit as soon as possible, especially if running Calm Mind, as the extra damage push can single-handedly win games vs. stall
- Healing Wish is tricky, and when you should use it really depends on the matchup and how the game is going. Most often, you'll want to use it to give a sweeper a second chance to sweep towards the end of the game once it has worn down its checks and counters, but you might use it to heal a Choice Scarf user to allow it to clean or save a teammate that would otherwise die to hazards, especially if they sac their checks to it thinking they're safe from it.

Team Options
========
- Dark-types are annoying, especially Pangoro and if running Energy Ball. Hariyama and Gurdurr are good checks to most Dark-types, and they also resist Bug to cover Mesprit
- Feraligatr, Mismagius, Klinklang, Typhlosion, and most setup sweepers love the Healing Wish support that Mesprit provides.
- Fast special attackers go really well with CM sets because they can take advantage of the wallbreaking that Mesprit provides. Pyroar and Sceptile are some good examples of this.

Special Stealth Rock
########
name: Special Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Healing Wish / U-turn
move 3: Psychic / Psyshock
move 4: Energy Ball / Future Sight
ability: Levitate
item: Leftovers / Mind Plate
evs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
- Stealth Rock broken move
- U-turn for pivoting, Healing Wish for god-tier move
- Psychic STAB, Psyshock wrecks Cryogonal and Hariyama
- Energy Ball handles most other common hazard setters, many of which are Ground- and/or Rock-type
- Future Sight is strong, can make the opponent play predictably/lure in Dark/Psychic-types for a teammate to donk; worth noting you should usually use U-turn with this
- Ice Beam is a good alternative move with good neutral coverage, and it is nice for Xatu because Xatu is normally a pretty good switch into Mesprit. also kills Torterra

Set Details
========
- EVs outrun neutral Speed base 80s such as opposing Mesprit and Kabutops. You can use a bulkier spread of 204 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe Timid or a slightly more bulky + more powerful spread of 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe Modest to outrun max Speed neutral base 65s such as Sandslash and Flareon.
- You can also just run max SpA/Spe, though the extra bulk, especially with Leftovers, is quite nice.
- Mind Plate is good with Future Sight because your two main attacking moves are both Psychic-type
- Life Orb is an option if you decide to go max SpA/Spe

Usage Tips
========
- Set up the Rocks whenever you can. Considering Mesprit's typing/ability and coverage, it has a good matchup against most hazard setters and can usually lead well.
- Try to keep it alive for a while. Mesprit is pretty resilient, and it can set up Rocks a few times in the match if necessary. The moderately slow U-turn vs. fast Pokemon is also nice for offensive teams.
- Healing Wish is tricky, and when you should use it really depends on the matchup and how the game is going. Most often, you'll want to use it to give a sweeper a second chance to sweep towards the end of the game once it has worn down its checks and counters, but you might use it to heal a Choice Scarf user to allow it to clean or save a teammate that would otherwise die to hazards, especially if they sac their checks to it thinking they're safe from it.

Team Options
========
- Garbodor and Qwilfish are great partners to use as a hazard core with Mesprit. They both resist Bug, which is great for Mesprit, and they can lure in Psychic- and Ground-types to give a free switch to Mesprit for an opportunity to set up Stealth Rock.
- Zangoose and Swellow are nice partners. Mesprit is pretty good at removing Rock-types for Swellow with Energy Ball. They also both appreciate U-turn support to get their Status Orb activated, and they both love hazard support.
- As with any Mesprit set, bulky Fighting-types such as Gurdurr and Hariyama are great switches into Dark-types such as Pawniard and Liepard. They also work well with Future Sight bc they hit most Psychic resists hard and most Fighting resists will be hit hard by Future Sight

Physical Stealth Rock
########
name: Physical Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: U-turn / Healing Wish
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Zen Headbutt
ability: Levitate
item: Leftovers
evs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========
- Stealth Rock broken move.
- U-turn actually deals damage with Attack investment :D
- Knock Off broken move.
- Zen Headbutt only physical STAB.
- Healing Wish is still a good option
- Fire Punch for Ferroseed, but Knock Off is usually good enough for letting something else take care of it later

Set Details
========
- EVs outrun neutral Speed base 80s such as opposing Mesprit and Kabutops. You can use a bulkier spread of 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe Jolly or a slightly more bulky + more powerful spread of 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe Adamant to outrun max Speed neutral base 65s such as Sandslash and Flareon, but outspeeding Modest Mesprit is really nice with Knock Off to hit it hard.
- Max Atk/Spe is another option.
- Leftovers are great for recovery, Life Orb is alright as well esp if using max Atk/Spe, but the extra bulk is nice.

Usage Tips
========
- Strong bulky offensive pivot, so use it to take some hits and dish some out
- Doesn't have a stellar matchup against opposing Stealth Rock setters, but it's not bad either because of typing + Levitate. Try to find a free turn somewhere to get up Rocks.
- During off-turns, spam attacks and use Knock Off both offensively and supportively
- Healing Wish is tricky, and when you should use it really depends on the matchup and how the game is going. Most often, you'll want to use it to give a sweeper a second chance to sweep towards the end of the game once it has worn down its checks and counters, but you might use it to heal a Choice Scarf user to allow it to clean or save a teammate that would otherwise die to hazards, especially if they sac their checks to it thinking they're safe from it.

Team Options
========
- VoltTurn support is cool because it has U-turn itself, so it can easily gain offensive momentum. Primeape is a solid partner, as it can U-turn out on Psychic-types and then have Mesprit smack them with Knock Off or out of Poison-types and into Mesprit to ZHB, and Probopass can trap pesky Steel-types for Mesprit and Volt Switch.
- Poison-type Spikers such as Garbodor and Qwilfish can lure in Ground- and Psychic-types to give a free switch to Mesprit to set up Rocks, and they resist Bug for it
- Dark resists, Hariyama, Gurdurr, Poliwrath, though be careful not to load up on Knock Off users because the more of them you have, the less valuable it is

Other Options
########
- Offensive Trick Room
- Offensive Rain Dance setter (with access to Thunder!) for rain teams, though Uxie's bulk is usually better for this playstyle
- Dual screens w/ Healing Wish
- Magic Coat
- HP Fighting on special sets to hit Probopass and OHKO all variants of Pawniard
- Dazzling Gleam
- Toxic

Checks and Counters
########
**Bulky Steel-types**: Probopass and Bastiodon especially because neutral to HP Fire, only fear the rare HP Fighting. Metang is uncommon but also does the trick, barring physical sets with Knock Off. Pawniard can live an HP Fire and fuck Mesprit up in return, but it can't switch in.

**Bulky Psychic-types**: Physical Leftovers Mesprit is actually a great check to Mesprit because it only fears Knock Off. Uxie, Musharna, and Beheeyem are also good at checking Mesprit, tho they need to watch out for Signal Beam and invested U-turn. Xatu shits on everything but Knock Off, Thunderbolt, and Ice Be

**Faster Bug-types**: Not too many of these, but they're good offensive checks. Scyther can fuck it up with Knock Off or Bug Bite, Accelgor can fuck it up with Bug Buzz, and Vivillon can put it to sleep.

**Dark-types**: All of them have to watch out for Dazzling Gleam and most have to watch out for Signal Beam/invested U-turn, but they're moderately safe switches to scout its set. Liepard is also faster and can lock it into a Psychic-type move with Encore, hit it hard with Knock Off, or Pursuit trap it. Pangoro only really fears Dazzling Gleam and kills with Crunch. Sneasel and Zweilous too.
 
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ryan

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This isn't actually QC ready, but I want to make sure QC looks at this and comments. I want us all to be on the same page before I spend tons of time writing things.
 

Punchshroom

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Mesprit is slower than Sawk, no way is it going to outrun Jolly Sawk. Also you need +Spe nature and 200 EVs (270 Speed) to outrun Adamant Sawk (269 Speed). Your current speed does outrun neutral base 80s.

Minor nitpick, but 0 HP Mesprit has 301 HP, which is a nice Life Orb number, so it seems wasteful to dump the leftover EVs in HP. Which is weird because you didn't put HP in the Choice sets, and managed to do so only for the LO set, when really it should've been the other way around, gj.
 
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QueenOfLuvdiscs

Tier 3 Audino sub
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Mesprit is slower than Sawk, no way is it going to outrun Jolly Sawk. Also you need +Spe nature and 200 EVs (270 Speed) to outrun Adamant Sawk (269 Speed). Your current speed does outrun neutral base 80s.

Minor nitpick, but 0 HP Mesprit has 301 HP, which is a nice Life Orb number, so it seems wasteful to dump the leftover EVs in HP. Which is weird because you didn't put HP in the Choice sets, and managed to do so only for the LO set, when really it should've been the other way around, gj.
Wouldn't having 29 HP IVs be better for Life Orb, so you take less recoil damage?
 
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Kushalos

ÜN ÜN ÜN
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I would add an offensive Trick Room set with moves like TR psychic dazzle gleam and energy ball/healing wish/HP fire, i've used this set to great succes and it is deadly on its own and a good team supporter.
 
2 comments on this set:
Physical Stealth Rock
########
name: Physical Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Zen Headbutt
ability: Levitate
item: Leftovers
evs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
nature: Jolly
First off, you should probably conisder using Att EVs instead of SpA evs.

More importantly, however, your EV spread/nature is inefficient. Currently (w/ 252 att), your stats are 327 HP/ 309att/ 246 Def/ 221SpA / 246SpD/ 256 spe
You can get the exact same stat spread with Adamant, 240 speed, 140 att, and 104 HP, except you also would have 24 evs extra to put wherever you like.

You need 164 speed to outspeed nuetral base 80s, if that's your goal.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
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Here to confirm that you do actually need 164 Speed EVs with Timid nature to outspeed 252 spe neutral nature base 80s, not QC but you probably want to change that set.
 

Punchshroom

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Dazzling Gleam's only true use right now is for Pangoro (and Vullaby I guess but Mesprit probably has room for Ice Beam now). Hidden Power Fire is likely prominent enough to be a main move for Mesprit since Steels will flock around to stop it, while Signal Beam can be slashed alongside Gleam (or even replace it) since it hits fellow Psychics while still hitting Darks like Liepard.
 

ryan

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I think the best option is Psychic/Psyshock, Energy Ball, HP Fire, Healing Wish/Calm Mind with Dazzling Gleam mentioned in Moves. I've been wanting to use Scraggy to counter this thing lately, but I don't think people have cut Dazzling Gleam from their repertoires just yet. :pirate:
 

Punchshroom

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Yeah it takes a while for people to realize that Dazzling Gleam isn't nearly as necessary to have with Tomb gone. I feel Energy Ball coverage is nice on Calm Mind Mesprit but not quite necessary, especially since Mesprit can boost its power; Energy Ball's better on SR Mesprit which tends to face off against opposing SR leads, and beats spinners such as Sandslash and Kabutops.

I've had success with Signal Beam since Psychics are expected to be on the rise; hitting Uxie and opposing Mesprit as well as totalling Malamars is definitely to CM Mesprit's benefit. Signal Beam is preferred over Shadow Ball so that Mesprit can still hit Darks, especially Liepard which may run Pursuit more often now.
 

ryan

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ready for QC now! for anyone who doesn't pay attention to the reservation thread, all four choice sets will still be done, just not by me because fuck that's so much work.

also, signal beam and dazzling gleam are both in Moves for LO, but I didn't feel there was enough room for them under the SR set
 

Punchshroom

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Special Stealth Rock
########

Set Details
========
- EVs outrun neutral Speed base 80s such as opposing neutral Speed Mesprit + Kabutops.
- More powerful spread of 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe Modest to outrun max Speed neutral base 65s such as Sandslash (<-does this exist? I don't think it does) and Flareon.
The only relevant neutral base 65 in NU that runs max speed is Flareon, I think you don't need to mention this spread.

Edit: Hollywood Mmmm I don't know if even Sand Rush Sandslashes want absolute max speed, since they can already outspeed much of the unboosted tier with minimal investment.
 
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ryan

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SD sandslash usually runs max Speed. the rare sand sandslash always does.

adding Kabu
 

ryan

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can never appease you guys
Edit: Hollywood Mmmm I don't know if even Sand Rush Sandslashes want absolute max speed, since they can already outspeed much of the unboosted tier with minimal investment.
I like outspeeding the boosted tier too, and as SD Sandslash is a cleaner first and foremost, the extra Speed is way more important than some bulk. And even if we tell people to use a bulkier spread, they'll still use max speed.
 
maybe add a Colbur Berry Calm Mind set with 3 attacks in the vein of that Nasty Plot Mismagius that is so popular? I mean techinically its already mentioned in the first set because CM is a slash! I'm just saying that Colbur Berry as an item maybe noted in other options at least? Like Cm+HP:Fighting+Psyshock+Ice Beam? idk.

Even a 4 attacking moves set with Expert Belt or Leftovers could work as antilead(just pick your four attacks and you're ready to go imo). Knock Off/U-Turn/Psychic/Energy Ball. Could useful in the right situation.

And jokes aside even AVest is worthy of OO at least
 
Here's a set I like to use a lot. How do you find it?

Calm Mind/Substitute sweeper
########
name: CM/sub sweeper
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Ice Beam
ability: Levitate
item: Leftovers
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly/Modest

Moves
========
- Substitute protects from status and eases prediction, also allows for free hit.
- Psyshock/Ice Beam hits the entire metagame (with a few, though very few, exceptions)
- Calm Mind gives Mesprit good special bulk while at the same time boosting its special attack through the roof
- HP fighting is another option to further punish Dark Types, but Ice beam generally gets a lot more use as a special move, especially against physical walls that can block psyshock and that aren't super effectively hit by Fighting.

Set Details
========
- Even with maxed out speed evs and Jolly Nature, Mesprit's speed is left mediocre, making it better for an end-game sweeper. However, it should be noted that it can outspeed practically the entire unboosted metagame with sticky web support.
- Substitute + Calm Mind protects from both statuses (notably toxic) and clear smog (which can't break the sub in one hit, especially after multiple CMs)
- With both physical and special coverage, mesprit can act as a powerful wallbreaker after a few boosts.
- Mesprit's neutral physical bulk is quite substantial, making it deceptively hard to revenge kill, especially with a substitute up.
- Leftover regeneration allows for more subs to be put up.

Usage Options
=========

- Due to mesprit's bulk and status protection, it is optimal to bring mesprit in on a wall, preferably one without knock off. This allows it to set up substitute or cm boosts while taking relatively little damage in return.
- Since most people don't expect substitute from a mesprit set, it can be used to set up substitutes, or even CMs, on mons with access to sucker punch.
- In most cases, mesprit is left best to be a late game cleaner, as although its special attack is incredible after calm mind, and it has enough bulk to survive most unboosted revenge killing attempts, it is still very vulnerable to faster sweepers, especially dark types such as offensive liepard or sneasel.


Team Options
========

- As mentioned earlier, Mesprit loves Sticky Web support, and so having a pokemon that can do this, such as Masquerain, Ariados or Leavanny, is recommended. Masquerain is a very notable team-mate; it can not only set down sticky webs, but also baton pass Quiver Dance boosts, which gives Mesprit a speed boost as well as boosting its special attack and defense before it even enters the field. Sticky Webs also allow Mesprit to function as a sweeper rather than a cleaner.
- A fighting mon such as Haryiama, Poliwrath, or even another physical sweeper such as Sawk is good for taking out dark types that mesprit has trouble with, especially mons using knock off, which severely damage Mesprit and remove its leftovers.
- Encore support from prankster mons such as Volbeat or Liepard is another viable option if a mon tries to use sd/nasty plot to set up faster than mesprit can.
- VoltTurn users (notably Electrode) can help pivot out of a wall to allow Mesprit to set up.

...Did I do it right? First time making one of those
 

ryan

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SubCM Mesprit really isn't worth it. Unlike other SubCM users such as Uxie, which has far better bulk, and like BW Gardevoir, which has pretty underwhelming coverage choices, Mesprit is strong and has a metric fuckton of good coverage options to its disposal. This makes CM + three attacks much better, as it can just spam attacks against offense and boost once or twice to wallbreak. I also don't know why you'd run Jolly SubCM Mesprit.

Assault Vest Mesprit is a gimmick.

Made some tweaks because much of this was outdated. This is QC ready again.
 
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SubCM Mesprit really isn't worth it. Unlike other SubCM users such as Uxie, which has far better bulk, and like BW Gardevoir, which has pretty underwhelming coverage choices, Mesprit is strong and has a metric fuckton of good coverage options to its disposal. This makes CM + three attacks much better, as it can just spam attacks against offense and boost once or twice to wallbreak. I also don't know why you'd run Jolly SubCM Mesprit.

Assault Vest Mesprit is a gimmick.

Made some tweaks because much of this was outdated. This is QC ready again.
Fair enough. It's...a specialized set anyway. Mostly based around web support. From an old team. So I guess it makes sense not to include in on ur moveset roster.
 

Punchshroom

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Mention that Timid on the LO set also allows Mesprit to outspeed neutral Kabutops, Zangoose, Kangaskhan, and Sawk.

Zen Headbutt best only physical STAB :/

Mention in C&C that Psychics should be wary of Signal Beam and invested U-turn.

Add Sneasel and Zweilous (since you mentioned Metang >.>) to Dark-types section. Dunno if Pawniard can be mentioned again here.

QC 1/3
 

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