Ladder Mix and Mega

[InfernapeTropius11]

Mfw Klinklang is only in C Rank holy shit what is this
Nomming Klinklang to at least A Rank, I'd prefer A+ though
It really is that good. The Pinsirite set just sweeps teams, there really isn't much else to say lmao. It has the power to 2HKO both Ferrothorn and Skarmory at +1, and has the coveted Steel/Flying typing. It sets up so easily on so much--Blissey (watch out for TWave--to scout this you can run Sub tho), Garchomp, Zygarde, Scizor, Metagross, Latios, EKiller (w/o Overheat), Jirachi (again watch out for TWave, but I've mostly seen the Ampharosite sets with Wish/Protect/STABs), Salamence, Gyarados, Haxorus, Krookodile and so much more. It resists the 3 most common ESpeeds (Normal, Fairy, and Flying) and can usually live one neutral attack. It can also afford to invest in HP alongside Atk, as it outspeeds everything, including Deo-A, at +2 post-Mega with 0 Speed investment. Also most people tend to expect something that doesn't remove its Ground immunity (like Scizorite or Altarianite) fsr so that's a free Shift Gear.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-334956821
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-335595460

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Blastoisinite Hoopa-U? =P

Altarianite Noivern?

EDIT: considering of course you will spam Dark Pulse and Boomburst respectively. If you want coverage go Cameruptite Hoopa-U as already discussed.

Lol volcarona was brought up as an example of something stronger than hoopa. Noivern is weaker than both. I'm pretty sure it has to be a red orb user with fire coverage, since the 1.5 from sun exceeds the boosts from sheer force, adaptability, etc. Maybe something with a really high BP move.

InfernapeTropius11 I second the klang nom. Probably B+ or A-. Altarianite and pinsirite are both amazing, because, as you said, you get fantastic typing and don't need to invest in speed. I find you can viably run max defense and still KO lots of stuff at +1. However it has trouble with a lot of the red and blue orbrs of the tier, which can break through its mediocre special defense.

 

[Funbot28]

Mfw Klinklang is only in C Rank holy shit what is this
Nomming Klinklang to at least A Rank, I'd prefer A+ though
It really is that good. The Pinsirite set just sweeps teams, there really isn't much else to say lmao. It has the power to 2HKO both Ferrothorn and Skarmory at +1, and has the coveted Steel/Flying typing. It sets up so easily on so much--Blissey (watch out for TWave--to scout this you can run Sub tho), Garchomp, Zygarde, Scizor, Metagross, Latios, EKiller (w/o Overheat), Jirachi (again watch out for TWave, but I've mostly seen the Ampharosite sets with Wish/Protect/STABs), Salamence, Gyarados, Haxorus, Krookodile and so much more. It resists the 3 most common ESpeeds (Normal, Fairy, and Flying) and can usually live one neutral attack. It can also afford to invest in HP alongside Atk, as it outspeeds everything, including Deo-A, at +2 post-Mega with 0 Speed investment. Also most people tend to expect something that doesn't remove its Ground immunity (like Scizorite or Altarianite) fsr so that's a free Shift Gear.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-334956821
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-335595460

Yesss I was was afraid to nom it that high because I might receive too much backlash, but Klingklang is just that threatening that I can see move to A for the reasons you stated. It defenitely can contend with Cobalion.

 

[thdhted]

I can agree with the stuff about Klinklang. A rank seems like a pretty good place for it. I'd like to point out that Red Orb Electrics wall all of its sets hard though, and Pinsirite sets get walled by Electric types period. I'd say that Cobalion is still the better Offensive Steel, but Klinklang does have a way of boosting its speed and has Gear Grind going for it.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

No, we're not going to be discussing strongest moves - those are discussions for the OM room - not the Mix and mega Thread. Although it's relevant it's very one-liner-ey, tagging The Immortal too clear the thread, if he hasn't seen it.

Klingklang for A+

See, Klingklang is good and all, but I honestly have a hard time justifying it when there's a lot better users of Pinsirite, mainly Cobalion, Entei, Zygarde and Metagross. If these weren't here Kling would be better but I guess this is how it is. Cobalion is stronger after an SD easily and it also carries Close combat, letting it touch steel types, something Kling can't really do! You're super Heatran fodder! But that's it, like, Steel/flying types are amazing, especially offensively, but Kling doesn't do the job good enough.

It should be A-

 

[Martin]

The thing about Klinklang is that, while its immediate power is outdone by SD Coba, its matchup v.s. offense is just leagues better due to the fact that Shift Gear is literally Agility+Howl in one moveslot. I think this is what sets it apart, and having used it a fair chunk I can say that it is definitely an A-rank 'mon.

Also why is Pangoro the based lord not on the VR? Banettite Panda is legit terrifying, and the sheer utility of Prankster Me First+Parting Shot is really useful in such a fast metagame (most notably making it a stupidly potent revenge killer) and its inherent ability to pair with powerful setup mons like Klinklang, SD Coba, SD Landorus-T and DD Zygarde due to the Atk/SpA drop from Parting Shot is really valuable from a cleaning standpoint.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

No, we're not going to be discussing strongest moves - those are discussions for the OM room - not the Mix and mega Thread. Although it's relevant it's very one-liner-ey, tagging The Immortal too clear the thread, if he hasn't seen it.

Klingklang for A+

See, Klingklang is good and all, but I honestly have a hard time justifying it when there's a lot better users of Pinsirite, mainly Cobalion, Entei, Zygarde and Metagross. If these weren't here Kling would be better but I guess this is how it is. Cobalion is stronger after an SD easily and it also carries Close combat, letting it touch steel types, something Kling can't really do! You're super Heatran fodder! But that's it, like, Steel/flying types are amazing, especially offensively, but Kling doesn't do the job good enough.

It should be A-

In many ways, Klingklang is better than Cobalion. As annoying as your set is, I find klingklasng a lot more threatening because of its ability to boost speed without wasting turns. If something threatens me, my basic strategy is kill it before it moves. The problem is, at +2 nothing moves faster than it bar priority, and it resists all forms of espeed. The only thing that can hit it with priority that it cares about it Weavile, for goodness sakes. This thing is so hugely threatening for offense that vs teams that posses it, I cannot kill anything with Garchomp or its game over. Zygarde, when I ran it, was the same, as was Hoopa-U!
While Pinsirite Cobalion ruins dreams, at least it can be revenge killed. At the very least, KlingKlang should be in A.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I find Cobalion to be far more threatening in its unpredictability. You have counters to Klingklang, Zapdos, Thundurus act work fine. But with Cobalion your counter is just a coverage move away from being beaten, Stone edge, Earthquake, Taunt ect. And it's surprisingly difficult to revenge kill, I guess if your Thundurus/Gengar/Victini have already Mega Evolved, but if they haven't then Cobalion easily outspends them all and can beat them with ease.

Should be noted, from the comments below mine, that I'd prefer it if Zygarde dropped and S rank was Don, Blissey and Skarmory imo

 

[xJownage]

Arceus-Normal A+ --> A
Really unimpressive, putting in this change immediately and this will likely go to a lower rank eventually.

Ditto (Scarf) C --> B-
Uneasy on this but it is extremely productive in such an offensive metagame.

Yveltal B --> C

Genesect B --> Unranked

Kyube B- --> Unranked
Not sure why this was ranked at all, it's completely and utterly outclassed in every way.

Mamoswine A- --> B+
Effective wallbreaker with unfortunate slowness. Not feeling it. Was absolutely absurd on a sticky web team I used a while back, though.

Raikou B- --> A
Long deserved, Red orb Raikou especially is a beast in the sun despite having to run rash nature.

Mienshao and Pangoro placed in B- with banettite as users since I saw nobody actually make legitimate nominations for them.

If anything else deserves to be ranked, I will be updating it as soon as decisions are made. I would still like more discussion on Klinklang, but I'm inclined to move it to A- due to a personal lack of experience - therefore I will leave it where it is and try it later tonight for myself.

 

[FOZ369]

Arceus-Normal A+ --> A
Really unimpressive, putting in this change immediately and this will likely go to a lower rank eventually.

Ditto (Scarf) C --> B-
Uneasy on this but it is extremely productive in such an offensive metagame.

Yveltal B --> C

Genesect B --> Unranked

Kyube B- --> Unranked
Not sure why this was ranked at all, it's completely and utterly outclassed in every way.

Mamoswine A- --> B+
Effective wallbreaker with unfortunate slowness. Not feeling it. Was absolutely absurd on a sticky web team I used a while back, though.

Raikou B- --> A
Long deserved, Red orb Raikou especially is a beast in the sun despite having to run rash nature.

Mienshao and Pangoro placed in B- with banettite as users since I saw nobody actually make legitimate nominations for them.

If anything else deserves to be ranked, I will be updating it as soon as decisions are made. I would still like more discussion on Klinklang, but I'm inclined to move it to A- due to a personal lack of experience - therefore I will leave it where it is and try it later tonight for myself.

No need to be uneasy on Ditto. 3 of the top 5 players on ladder use it.
The Vialibity Rankings are looking great. Two changes that I really think are justified:
Skarmory A --> A+ Proposed by AllJokesAside
Completely checks Zygarde (S rank), checks Primal Groudon (S rank) that dont run Tbolt/Thunder, and many more mons. It's the most useful Blue Orb user in this meta.
Blissey A+ --> S Proposed by sin(pi)
Checks a bunch of prominent special attackers, and can also check a bunch of physical attackers as well.

Sorry for posting very little reasoning. Just wanted to bring them up.

 

[bp scrub]

Kyube B- --> Unranked
Not sure why this was ranked at all, it's completely and utterly outclassed in every way.

super super niche, but Kyub can take any 1 hit from manaphy and OHKO back with fusion bolt

lmao this shit set



Ambipom @ Pinsirite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Last Resort

not as bad as normal fakeout + last resort ambi though, flying is obviously better than normal typing.
kek put it on birdspam (except it takes pinsirite so it sucks)

252 Atk Aerilate Ambipom Last Resort vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 376-444 (125.7 - 148.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Ambipom Last Resort vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 424-501 (161.8 - 191.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Ambipom Fake Out + Last Resort combo vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 240-283 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Ambipom Last Resort vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucarionite Terrakion: 262-310 (80.8 - 95.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Ambipom Last Resort vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 268-316 (78.5 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I know I suggested A+, but I'd settle for A if I have to. I definitely don't feel like it's A- material though. It's ability to completely set up on a ton of mons and proceed to demolish offense, as well as having good bulk that you can afford to invest in, and a fantastic typing for resisting priority, then sweep offense is incomparable to anything else tbh. Sure Electric types check it, but none have recovery other than Zapdos, which can be handled by teammates. The more common Steel-types are either part flying (Pinsirite Cobalion/Klinklang, Skarmory), Ferrothorn (rekt by Frustration), or Heatran (no recovery), Jirachi (who you set up on if standard WishTectSTABs set), or random Aggronite mons. These are easy to scout for and eliminate (I use Altarianite Entei+Red Orb Raikou as partners and they are great at bashing stuff up for a late game Klinklang sweep). I don't see how having checks that are easy to wear down (hazards are great) is a very strong argument. I can list bucketloads of mons that check/counter Zyggy and Weav, but that doesn't prevent them from being S and A+ respectively. As for opportunity cost of using Pinsirite, well most of those mons do different things (Cobalion is a set up sweeper aiming to beat stall, Metagross is a wallbreaker, Klinklang is a set up sweeper aiming to beat offense) and not every team has to run them. Entei/Zyggy can still be good with Altarianite as well. Klinklang is supposed to be a late game cleaner that can handle offense as well as weakened stall teams, and it does an absolutely fantastic job at this role--better than any other late game sweeper imo for its ability to threaten ALL playstyles. It can also basically single-handedly wreak havoc on balance, as they are generally SkarmBliss+offensive mons (Bliss is walled and set up on, +1 Wild Charge 2HKOs Skarm, offensive mons get outsped and die).

On another note, I think Gastrodon should get ranked, but as I've only used it in a few matches over the last two days, I'm not quite sure where yet. With Slowbronite it can check PDon/Raikou/Zapdos, as well as some other Fire/Electric types, Earth Power/Scald is a decent STAB combo for its purposes, and it gets Recover. I'd say B- atm, as it's not overwhelmingly good, but it has a niche in checking two of the meta's top threats (at least one of those is on just about every team I've faced over the last couple weeks x_x).

 

[Lord Death Man]

On another note, I think Gastrodon should get ranked, but as I've only used it in a few matches over the last two days, I'm not quite sure where yet. With Slowbronite it can check PDon/Raikou/Zapdos, as well as some other Fire/Electric types, Earth Power/Scald is a decent STAB combo for its purposes, and it gets Recover. I'd say B- atm, as it's not overwhelmingly good, but it has a niche in checking two of the meta's top threats (at least one of those is on just about every team I've faced over the last couple weeks x_x).

I'm not convinced - max HP/max defense sets still lose if Pdon SDs on the switch in, and take 37.3-47.8% from a max attack Precipice Blades in the first place if they've already mega'd. (this is 252/252+ slowbronite Gastrodon). It also takes 44.3 - 52.3% from Red Orb Raikou, which is a 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Also unconvinced on Raikou reaching the A-ranks; it's a dangerous wallbreaker, but it struggles a lot with Blissey, especially sablenite sets, even if it does have calm mind, and struggles immensely with offense as well. There's also other solid answers to it in this meta, such as Red Orb Hippowdown and most Sceptilite mons. It suffers quite a bit from being somewhat slow, which hurts it's ability to effectively check things with it's typing and also hurts it's matchup versus offensive teams immensely. I don't see it as being on the same level as Keldeo, who is a genuine monster who could probably rise, or offensive Landorus-T sets, which have the advantage of being much harder to predict. 329 speed is a massive let down in this tier, and it isn't on a unique level of wallbreaking or utility to make me think it's overcoming it's flaws.

 

[Manchamp]

Also unconvinced on Raikou reaching the A-ranks; it's a dangerous wallbreaker, but it struggles a lot with Blissey, especially sablenite sets, even if it does have calm mind, and struggles immensely with offense as well. There's also other solid answers to it in this meta, such as Red Orb Hippowdown and most Sceptilite mons. It suffers quite a bit from being somewhat slow, which hurts it's ability to effectively check things with it's typing and also hurts it's matchup versus offensive teams immensely. I don't see it as being on the same level as Keldeo, who is a genuine monster who could probably rise, or offensive Landorus-T sets, which have the advantage of being much harder to predict. 329 speed is a massive let down in this tier, and it isn't on a unique level of wallbreaking or utility to make me think it's overcoming it's flaws.

252+ SpA Raikou Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon in Harsh Sunshine: 210-248 (50 - 59%) -- 100% chance to 2HKO
(Everything adjusted for MegaEvolving)

+2 252+ SpA Red Orb Raikou Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey (Sablenite) in Harsh Sunshine: 295-348 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO

+2 means you survive a couple Seismic Tosses. Not horrible.

329 still outspeeds maxed out 100's, which are a lot of Ubers, certain OU and down mons with mega stones and lots of bulky offense, which aren't bulky enough to survive Weather Balls

 

[Lord Death Man]

Red Orb Hippo is very commonly specially defensive, and should always have at least some spdef investment to make use of its excellent typing.

Needing +2 to potentially 2hko Blissey means you're in a negative situation. Especially if they have toxic or calm mind themselves, and the vast majority should have one of the two.

Compare to other wallbreakers in the same general rank - Keldeo and Swords Dance Lando-T (who does eventually beat through Skarm or force it to whirlwind it out ) - and I feel like Raikou is lackluster in coverage, speed, and ability to threaten common physical walls. It doesn't have a strictly better matchup versus most defensive teams while having a much worse matchup versus offensive. And 329 is only remotely good before things start mega evolving; something has to be a genuine nuke, be a fantastic support Mon, or have priority to really work on offense and be that slow.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's bad, just that it isn't A rank.

 

[sin(pi)]

You're acting as if that's its only viable set. Manectite (note: use the shiny sprite) is basically just a better version of Mega Doge in standard and puts all sorts of pressure on offense with a fantastic base speed 145 (it beats pinsirite atespeed for example and soft checks absolite Manaphy).
It can also run a somewhat gimmicky Latiosite set because omgwtfbbq no weaknesses and even -atespeed if you want to be bad, but those two sets aren't great.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Just in time for the end of the month, I have created a list of semi-viable off-meta users for each stone. I tried to avoid gimmicks, but with some stones, that was tough. These are not necessarily good, but they might be fun to try before the ladder dies down. I've bolded the ones that are either fun or not total crap.

Goodness, I'm bad at formatting. The ones titles [B are good/fun. I'll try to fix.

sets

Abomasite

Aurorus @ Abomasite
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Ancient Power
- Earth Power
- Freeze-Dry

Absolite

Uxie @ Absolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Psyshock
- Signal Beam

[B

Aerodactylite[/B]]
Infernape @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- Gunk Shot

Aggronite

Dusknoir @ Aggronite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spite
- Mean Look
- Shadow Sneak
- Rest

[B

Alakazite[/B]]
Keldeo-Resolute @ Alakazite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind
- Icy Wind
- Hydro Pump

Altarianite

Houndoom @ Altarianite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb

Ampharosite

Lapras @ Ampharosite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Roar

Audite

Jellicent @ Audinite
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dazzling Gleam
- Scald
- Recover

[B

Banettite[/B]]
Hawlucha @ Banettite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Me First
- Baton Pass
- Drain Punch
- Encore / Taunt / Swords

Blastoisinite

Hydreigon @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power

[B

Cameruptite[/B]]
Victini @ Cameruptite
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Blue Flare
- Psychic
- Thunder
- Trick Room

[B

Charizardite X[/B]]
Gyarados @ Charizardite X
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Outrage

[B

Charizardite Y[/B]]
Moltres @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Solar Beam
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Roost

Diancite

Excadrill @ Diancite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide

Galladite

Metagross @ Galladite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Agility
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake

Garchompite

Tyranitar @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch

Gardevoirite

Diancie @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
Lonely Nature
- Return
- Diamond Storm
- Earth Power
- Explosion

Glalitite

Jynx (F) @ Glalitite
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot

gyaradosite

Toxicroak @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Fake Out

Heracronite

Ferrothorn @ Heracronite
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Pin Missile
- Bullet Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Poison Jab

[B

Houndoomite[/B]]
Celebi @ Houndoominite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Nasty Plot

latiasite

Magcargo @ Latiasite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn
- Will-O-Wisp

Latiosite

Tyrantrum @ Latiosite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Stone Edge / Head Smash
- Earthquake

[B

Lopunnite[/B]]
Staraptor @ Lopunnite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack
- U-turn
- Return

Lucarionite

Latios (M) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave

[B

Manectite [/B]]
Arcanine @ Manectite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar
- Overheat

[B

Metagrossite[/B]]
Bisharp @ Metagrossite
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab

Mewtwonite X

Terrakion @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Taunt
- Earthquake

[B

Mewtwonite Y[/B]]
Honchkrow @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Pidgeotite

Meloetta @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sing
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast
- Psychic

Pinsirite

Zoroark
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Return
- Low Kick
- U-turn

[B

Sablenite[/B]]
Hoopa-Unbound @ Sablenite
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Trick Room
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic

Salamencite

Archeops @ Salamencite
Ability: Defeatist
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Stone Edge
- Endeavor
- U-turn

Sceptilite

Feraligatr @ Sceptilite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch

Scizorite

Articuno @ Scizorite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Frost Breath
- Air Cutter
- Roost
-HP of ur choice

Sharpedonite

Krookodile @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Thunder Fang

[B

Slowbronite[/B]]
Volcarona @ Slowbronite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz

Steelixite

Hippowdon @ Steelixite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge

[B

Swampertite[/B]]
Relicanth @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance

Tyranitarite

Barbaracle @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stone Edge
- Razor Shell
- Cross Chop

Venusaurite

Crobat
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Poison Fang
- Roost
- Taunt

Blue Orb

Thundurus (M) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Dark Pulse
- Superpower

[B

Red Orb[/B]]
Roserade @ Red Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Weather Ball
- Growth
- Aromatherapy

 

[Ghoul King]

Final verdict: Manaphy is banned.

Tagging The Immortal.

Manaphy isn't broken in the traditional sense -it's not a threat beyond the meta's ability to fight- but the pressure it puts on the meta in conjunction with the fact that a match can essentially be decided primarily or entirely by whether you botch a predict while Manaphy is on the field is not a healthy dynamic.

Red Orb Hippo is very commonly specially defensive, and should always have at least some spdef investment to make use of its excellent typing.

I ran Physically Defensive. It needed it to consistently wall various threats.

 

[Marquis]

Just started playing this metagame today and I have to say I am loving Aggronite Leavanny.

 

[nyph]

Funny set:

Milotic @ Sablenite
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Recover
- Dragon Tail
- Aqua Tail

Surprisingly 6-0s most teams on low ladder (by itself!). EVs are mostly arbitrary (not calced for specific threats) but seem to work quite well. Might be worth swapping aqua tail for scald or hypnosis depending on the team. If scald is used it is probably worth using competitive as the ability, to grab boosts from intimidate, defog and what not.

 

[fromm]

Just wanted to thank for their amazing work those who have managed this meta.
This is probably the first time I have agreed with every decision of the council: ban on Dragonite and Zap Cannon during the first M&M month, then ban on Lucario, then ban on Manaphy (and the five days suspect period was legit too).
All these choices led to a great variety and creativity in the metagame. Man, being almost swept by some strange Sableite\Latiasite Stunfisk may not be cool, but really made me think!

 

[Lemon Ginger]

In the waning hours of this month, here are three last sets for what are largely unused stones.

Keldeo-Resolute @ Alakazite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Taunt
- Icy Wind

While it seems that alakazite it trash in this meta, I found a viable user in keldeo. It can trace all the different immunity abilities for weird resistance sets. It can trace a blue orb skarmory and force it out, giving you a blue orb keldeo with more speed. It can trace magic bounce or prankster from walls. Still has trouble with ate-speeders, but this is a very fun set to use.

Honchkrow @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Pursuit

I was trying to figure out a way to deal with those damn annoying gengar and brelooms that put everything to sleep. This can switch in on a sing/hypnosis/spore and then mega, surprising the opposing poke.

Hawlucha @ Banettite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Me First
- Drain Punch
- Encore
- Swords Dance

A variant on the Pangoro/Mienshao prankster me-first. This has the nice bonus of mold breaker encore to set up in the face of walls.

 

[UnrelatedWhale]

I imagine that an Alakazite would work pretty well on Manaphy because it would have 140 SpA and access to Tail Glow.

A Pidgeotite would do Manaphy even better.

 

[sin(pi)]

I imagine that an Alakazite would work pretty well on Manaphy because it would have 140 SpA and access to Tail Glow.

A Pidgeotite would do Manaphy even better.

Manaphy is banned from holding mega stones, though it was best with Absolite or Sceptilite.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/a-new-direction-for-other-metagames.3549114/page-5#post-6703944

Like The Immortal's post if you want Mix and Mega to be in the rotation(Perma ladder)