Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
The problem with purugly is that most of its attacking moves are special, and you don’t even nearly have enough spa for that. That’s why -ate moves are better on it because you get a whole new move type to explore. Sorry, but no purugly sets have good enough viability to use on a team.
The problem with purugly is that most of its attacking moves are special, and you don’t even nearly have enough spa for that. That’s why -ate moves are better on it because you get a whole new move type to explore. Sorry, but no purugly sets have good enough viability to use on a team.
Lmao, not really. Purugly gets way more physical moves than special. Special wise it's got HP, Shadow Ball, Thunder, Water Pulse and goddamn Mud Slap. Yeah that's it.
I appreciate Purugly is pretty unviable, but that's part of the fun. Anyway, thanks for all your help. I wouldn't have picked Altarianite without your input and I would still be running Knock Off lol :)
Anyway, I'll stop spamming the thread with Purugly now :P
alright then, if we want discussion in this thread, maybe now is a good time to bring up smth the mnm discord has lowkey memed about
Mega Gengar
I want to start off this post by saying that I still think the Shadow Tag ban was the right thing to do, but I’m not so sure if Mega Gengar deserved to be included in that ban. Gothitelle was the main focus of the Shadow Tag test, and while Mega Gengar got brought up a few times showing that it could abuse Shadow Tag as well, I’m not sure if several of those conditions that got Mega Gengar banned along with everything else having Shadow Tag still exists. As far as I’m aware, and you’re welcome to tell me otherwise, Mega Gengar is best utilized by trapping Arceus formes. And as far as I am aware, in this current meta, there are only two super prominent Arceus-formes used right now- Arceus-Fairy, and -Ground. I’m pretty sure Arceus-Ground beats Mega Gengar anyways, and I’m not so sure what Arceus-Fairy does that isn’t already done by something else, such as being a Zygarde check like Buzzwole or Mew. On top of that, I’m not sure if Gengar can even reliably trap Buzzwole if Buzzwole is carrying Earthquake, and Mew probably just pivots out or hits it with Earth Power/Psychic/whatever else it runs.
Now, I’m perfectly aware that freeing Mega Gengar from its prison is probably a bad idea. It still pairs really well with Zygarde, eliminating checks to it and freeing up the road for Zygarde. I shudder to think of the havoc Lucarionite Zygarde could wreak when paired with Mega Gengar, but for the most part, I feel like the meta has developed checks to Zygarde that can also handle Mega Gengar. Keep in mind, I could be horribly wrong, and freeing Mega Gengar could become a horrific mistake that we’ll regret immediately and realize why we included Mega Gengar in the Shadow Tag ban, but I think we should give Mega Gengar another chance in this meta.
To put an end to this discussion of one liners, the reason Silvally isn't changing types, regardless of whenever it's visible or not, is because of RKS System, and how it prevents type changes from anything but memories.
can we just talk about the general shittiness of this thread over the past few months? since May there have been only 2 posts about the actual state of the metagame, while there have been 27 completely irrelevant posts about meme/bad sets and one-liners that have no place in this thread. it’s ridiculous and needs to stop
anyways on to mgar: anyone that knows me knows ive been spamming free mgar since the beginning of april so im obv for a suspect to potentially reintroduce it back into the meta
while i cant say mgar isnt broken, which it certainly may be in conjunction with lucarionite zygarde/terrakion, i have been under the impression ever since the stag ban that it was not the focus of the stag suspect and had no right being included in it. i’m gonna keep this short since my main reason for writing this post was the first paragraph but i do believe that it’d be ridiculous to not consider a mgar suspect just because of feelings about trapping/stag in general
id like a suspect test for mega gengar even though i dont believe it will be unbanned. its ability to dismantle major defensive components to teams might be less than what goth was able to do, but with the aforementioned lucarionite sets being popular and having less outright checks make it a dangerous prospect.
as for the lack of insightful conversation... i dont want it to come the point of mnm only having discussion just for the sake of it. i'll admit to not being the most insightful or having contributed much of anything, but at least ask established and active mnm players about your brilliant blur orb golurk set on showdown before posting in the thread.
Please don’t suspect, I really can’t be bothered to work up my ladder all over again. It takes too long, but how will anyone know you’re a decent MnM player if they can’t see a good ladder?
Please don’t suspect, I really can’t be bothered to work up my ladder all over again. It takes too long, but how will anyone know you’re a decent MnM player if they can’t see a good ladder?
Suspect test ladders are temporary, so your rank is still there.
If you're too concerned about climbing the ladder after the meta changes that you beg for there not to be a suspect test, I wouldn't consider you a good MnM player.
High ladder ranking doesn't make you a good MnM player.
Suspect test ladders are temporary, so your rank is still there.
If you're too concerned about climbing the ladder after the meta changes that you beg for there not to be a suspect test, I wouldn't consider you a good MnM player.
High ladder ranking doesn't make you a good MnM player.
1. Really? My ladder was gone after the naganadel suspect.
2. It’s just that, after a Pokemon is unbanned, it will be my natural instinct to sack all my current teams to use that Pokemon. Also, i’ve only just got used to the current meta, and i’m not allowed to play that much so it will take me a week at least to understand the changes, let alone adapt. Finally, Climbing the ladder is just a thing I have to do, even if I don’t want to.
3. No, it just makes you seem like it.
4. Shadow tag was banned for a reason, and Gengar gets perish song, something that makes it almost completely different from gothitelle, and you guys are comparing it to gothitelle, saying they weren’t really thinking about Gengar when shadow tag was banned. That was because gothitelle was the main point of the suspect, it doesn’t mean Gengar isn’t broken.
I know that you just made 3 points but I just wanted to throw in another reason why it shouldn’t be suspected.
To put an end to this discussion of one liners, the reason Silvally isn't changing types, regardless of whenever it's visible or not, is because of RKS System, and how it prevents type changes from anything but memories.
Just to clarify, since no one has given you an answer yet. Silvally and Arceus are hardcoded so that they don't change type unless affected by RKS System / Multitype and the respective item.
alright then, if we want discussion in this thread, maybe now is a good time to bring up smth the mnm discord has lowkey memed about
Mega Gengar
I want to start off this post by saying that I still think the Shadow Tag ban was the right thing to do, but I’m not so sure if Mega Gengar deserved to be included in that ban. Gothitelle was the main focus of the Shadow Tag test, and while Mega Gengar got brought up a few times showing that it could abuse Shadow Tag as well, I’m not sure if several of those conditions that got Mega Gengar banned along with everything else having Shadow Tag still exists. As far as I’m aware, and you’re welcome to tell me otherwise, Mega Gengar is best utilized by trapping Arceus formes. And as far as I am aware, in this current meta, there are only two super prominent Arceus-formes used right now- Arceus-Fairy, and -Ground. I’m pretty sure Arceus-Ground beats Mega Gengar anyways, and I’m not so sure what Arceus-Fairy does that isn’t already done by something else, such as being a Zygarde check like Buzzwole or Mew. On top of that, I’m not sure if Gengar can even reliably trap Buzzwole if Buzzwole is carrying Earthquake, and Mew probably just pivots out or hits it with Earth Power/Psychic/whatever else it runs.
Now, I’m perfectly aware that freeing Mega Gengar from its prison is probably a bad idea. It still pairs really well with Zygarde, eliminating checks to it and freeing up the road for Zygarde. I shudder to think of the havoc Lucarionite Zygarde could wreak when paired with Mega Gengar, but for the most part, I feel like the meta has developed checks to Zygarde that can also handle Mega Gengar. Keep in mind, I could be horribly wrong, and freeing Mega Gengar could become a horrific mistake that we’ll regret immediately and realize why we included Mega Gengar in the Shadow Tag ban, but I think we should give Mega Gengar another chance in this meta.
Let's see if I can add anything to this Mega Gengar er "discussion" so far.
Yeah, I think it was kinda thrown under the bus from the Shadow Tag suspect, since that was mostly for the Gothitelle family.
While I think it was a bit unkind and kind of want it to be allowed back, let's see if it would be a bad idea to do that.
Now for any really relevant calcs I'll be looking from the viability rankings, which can be found here if you can't get it yourself for whatever reason. Obviously calcs aren't everything, especially with a Pokemon like Mega Gengar since it has Shadow Tag as an ability. I'll look at a few aspects of it to try to give some ideas of whether or not it would be "healthy" in the current metagame, some of which you can use to form your own opinion on it, but of course I'm not getting everything you would need to form an opinion, just some of the more basic parts, and you can disagree with your own reasons. Discussion is always helpful.
With Mega Gengar, you can't really just set it up vs another Pokemon in a vacuum because it's often times used to assist another Pokemon on the team by having the ability to trap and eliminate checks to that teammate allowing it to easily get through the opposing team. That's the more important part of it to consider.
Also remember that when Mega Gengar was legal, Pidgeotite was also legal, which added some unpredictability to it because it used both Gengarite and Pidgeotite, so Pokemon like Blissey couldn't just see Gengar and say, "Oh hey, there's a Gengar, it's running Gengarite so I should be careful of that." It had to scout out whether it was Pidgeotite or Gengarite through other Pokemon to not run the risk of being trapped and removed. Without Pidgeotite, Mega Gengar is way easier to play around because you know what stone it's using. This makes it a lot less threatening to see on a team, it was already a bit underwhelming with Pidgeotite legal, so it being banned only makes Gengar tougher to make much use out of a lot of the time.
Mega Gengar is helped a lot by having a slow pivot Pokemon on the team, such as Sablenite Magearna or something. They can help it more easily get in on Pokemon it should trap without having to take damage.
Here are the sets that'd probably be the best to use right now:
Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt/Destiny Bond
Not too sure on the best EV spread for the Perish Trapper set though, there could also be more good sets that I don't really know so it definitely isn't limited to these.
Let's start with what I know it can effectively trap:
Blissey if Mega Gengar has Perish Song.
Gyaradosite Toxapex if it doesn't have Payback and Mega Gengar runs taunt.
Arceus-Fairy (which I haven't seen in forever honestly.)
Necrozma-Ultra with Mega Gengar's base 130 Speed, it outspeeds it by one base Speed which is nice if you don't like Necrozma-Ultra. If Necrozma-Ultra is statused, then Hex OHKOs it., even if it isn't, Hex still has a 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
With its poor 60/80/95 bulk, it has trouble switching in on many Pokemon, here are some of the higher ranked Pokemon that can deal with it.
Groudon-Primal because Precipice Blades is gonna kill it so it shouldn't risk being brought in on it. Even if it makes it in it still can't do much to trap and kill it.
Lucarionite Zygarde because they usually only run Thousand Arrows, so if Mega Gengar is switched in it's taking one of those or being set up on.
Altarianite Zygarde after a Dragon Dance or two Extreme Speeds after Stealth Rock damage
Magearna because on Cameruptite, switching in on Flash Cannons or Shadow Balls isn't fun, Pinsirite Magearna can deal with it because of Shift Gear stuff, and defensive sets it Volt Switch out
Lucarionite Terrakion if it Stone Edges (and hits) or uses Substitute.
Aggronite Buzzwole with Earthquake. Even after it gets burned by Mega Gengar, it's 2HKO'ing it, and Hex isn't even a guaranteed OHKO with Stealth Rock.
Altarianite Entei just 2HKO's with Extreme Speed, so if Mega Gengar takes one on switch in it's forced out or it dies.
Diancite Tapu Lele can easily force it out or kill it because it outspeeds and is super threatening with its Psychic STAB
So uh I'm sure there's way more to add to this but I'm lazy and took too long to do this and don't want Mega Gengar to die out for another random Pokemon like Talonflame to get discusseddd. So here it is I guess. Have fun seeing mistakes?
also ew no one likes Gothitelle stop hh btw poor wobbuffet
Firstly, I'd like to thank In The Hills for the great work on the Speed Tiers, Role Compendium and WIP Checks Compendium that have been posted in the Resources thread. All three were in desperate need of an update, so I'm quite grateful to Hills for the work done.
Secondly, for people who haven't been paying attention, OM analyses have returned for this generation and with them M&M has been officially included! If you'd like to participate, please read this and the attached threads for more information.
Thirdly, we've decided to expand the council to five members as we had before, so we can better assess the metagame, while rewarding consistent contributors within the community. Welcome In The Hills and xavgb (stresh) to the council!!!!
Finally, addressing the recent Mega Gengar re-suspect discussion. While I haven't discussed it with the four other council members yet, my personal opinion is that Mega Gengar may have been unfairly caught up in the Shadow Tag suspect test; however, I'm currently on the fence on whether suspect testing it is the best idea. If a suspect test arises from the council discussion, then expect it in a few weeks depending on the speed of OMPL and the ongoing BH Suspect Test.
That's all for now, remember to congratulate Hills and Stresh whenever you see them! If you have any opinions or points to make on the potential Mega Gengar re-suspect test, please feel free to post them in the thread, as it's always good to have the community's thoughts going into decisions like these.
Good luck to both of you, Stresh and Hills! (I was elsewhere, so it makes sense for me to not be re-invited)
..Anyways, to make this not a one-liner, let's have a refresher about what Mega Gengar actually does (and a slight memorial about Sivally)
To reiterate a point about the Shadow Tag ban, it was mainly done due to Gothitelle trapping and KOing Support Arceus and Blissey with fair ease. While I'm not sure how important that point is, Mega Gengar was kind of lumped into that definition. Part of the reason for Mega Gengar's effectiveness was that it also held what I personally consider to be the most potent Pidgeotite set; perfect accuracy Hypnosis, backed by Ghost and Fighting attacks, which was perfect neutral coverage, along with a myriad of good supporting options. And that's before it gained Zap Cannon. All this was at a base 130 Speed stat, which is not a number to sneeze at.
Mega Gengar itself was also offensively distributed in stats, but had an entirely different purpose; trapping something that was a problem, and either KOing it with its STABs, Destiny Bonding the poor sap to force a double KO, or Perish Song especially passive walls to remove them outright. Mega Gengar can't do all of these in one set, so it usually took a hit to its offensive coverage to be better at trapping walls and removing anything slower than it that dared to KO Mega Gengar... which was a ton, considering Mega Gengar also boasts a base 130 speed. Primal Groudon may be able to KO Mega Gengar, but had to take care to not either get weakened enough for Shadow Ball to do it in, and predict a Destiny Bond (which can;t be spammed anymore, which is a blessing in this case).
Priority users were never afraid of Mega Gengar, as even Altarianite Extreme Speeders could switch out upon seeing a regular Gengar, and come back in when either set up, Gengar itself was damaged to around half health, or the damage from Sludge Wave/Shadow Ball didn't matter anymore.... or just not even care, as they could also control if they fell to Destiny Bond with the use (and nonuse) of priority moves. Xerneas wasn't too afraid either, unless it was locked into choiced Moonblast... and even then, it would deal with most of Gengar's health in the process.
What was afraid of Mega Gengar was stuff like Blissey, Suicune, and Toxapex, which couldn't actually deal enough damage to Mega Gengar before it performed the Perish Trap setup in its entirety. They would deal minimal to some damage to Mega Gengar... which wasn't enough, since your team would be down a wall... which might be exactly what the opponent wanted to see, so that their sweeper could run wild of the scattered remnants of your team.
If that picture sounds dire... don't worry too much on seeing Gengar initially. You can avoid the first encounter by simply switching out, since Gengar doesn't have Shadow Tag until it Mega Evolves (a fact that is well-known, but worth restating for this conversation). If it comes in safely twice, Mega Gengar could do a number on any wall or tank that can't hurt it well.
So that's Mega Gengar. If it's broken or not right now, I'm not completely sure. The next best set for Gengar right now is Diancite... which falls to a breeze. I was never too worried about that particular set, and that hasn't changed now. Maybe something that can trap Blissey right now is a good thing. Maybe Mega Gengar would harm defensive teams too much right now. And that's where we stand now.
...And one last thing. Sivally used to change types to Mega Stones, from which I gathered upon seeing a Gyaradosite one (which is probably its best niche; firing off Parting Shots that cannot be blocked by Magic Bounce). The report on that not being true anymore leads me to believe that the changes in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon's coding that led Genesect's Techno Blast to stop changing types with -ates (if you're trying to do that right now, please stop) also applied to Sivally's type remaining static. And thus, we can lay Sivally's versatility in Mix and Mega (mostly) to rest. (oh yeah, and I'll be back to posting some cool ideas that you all might have missed somewhat soon)
